Geothermal cooling/heating — whatcha got? (1 Viewer)

[Otis]

Been thinking about this for years, and buddy of mine just had it installed and swears by it. I have a guy coming in Monday to give us an estimate. I’m told to expect something in the $20-30k range. But I’m told annual savings of at least $1-2k in heating and cooling bills. 
 

Love the idea of just cooling the house with the 55 degree temps under the ground, rather than running those big central AC compressors all summer. I actually have 3 units, one is about to go and will need replacing, and one is in our attic (an outdoor unit that has no business being in an attic and which is now causing major leaks through the ceiling below it).  Since I’m going to need to put some money into our current system, starting to think this is a good time to do it. 
 

In terms of heating, we have a pretty new gas furnace and radiator heat, which is great heat. Still, I’m thinking it’s got to be a whole lot more efficient to have to only heat the house from 55–>68, rather than from the winter time temps in the 20s or below. 
 

Anyone convert to geo?  Like it?  Worth it?

TIA. 

 

[gianmarco]

Been thinking about this for years, and buddy of mine just had it installed and swears by it. I have a guy coming in Monday to give us an estimate. I’m told to expect something in the $20-30k range. But I’m told annual savings of at least $1-2k in heating and cooling bills. 
 

Love the idea of just cooling the house with the 55 degree temps under the ground, rather than running those big central AC compressors all summer. I actually have 3 units, one is about to go and will need replacing, and one is in our attic (an outdoor unit that has no business being in an attic and which is now causing major leaks through the ceiling below it).  Since I’m going to need to put some money into our current system, starting to think this is a good time to do it. 
 

In terms of heating, we have a pretty new gas furnace and radiator heat, which is great heat. Still, I’m thinking it’s got to be a whole lot more efficient to have to only heat the house from 55–>68, rather than from the winter time temps in the 20s or below. 
 

Anyone convert to geo?  Like it?  Worth it?

TIA. 

We built a house about 5 years ago and had a geothermal system put in.  There are definite savings on monthly bills although I'm not sure it's as high as often reported.  Also, it takes a year or two for those savings to really kick in as it takes a bit for the underground loop to settle and get fully efficient.  The nice thing is no need for outdoor compressors and the there's not a lot of moving parts.  But, there's still the electrical component and ours has some kind of leak in the underground loop such that it has to be refilled with water to the correct pressure almost every 1-1.5 years.  I've heard that's normal.  Not a big deal, just something that is checked during maintenance although ours was noticed when our 2nd floor unit wasn't cooling.

We also got a decent government refund from the installation.  Check and make sure that's still in place.  It was something like $15K back (the units during our build were close to $40K).  The biggest thing is making sure you get a big enough unit for your home.  Do not go through the expense and get an undersized unit.   If they give you an option for 8 ton vs. 9 ton, go with the larger.

 

[El Floppo]

Professional curiousity dot. 

 

[ChiefD]

Geothermal is the most efficient system you can get. It's also going to be expensive, especially for a house with 3 systems.  The good thing is, there is still a tax credit available. If you install it this year, you get 26% of your total install cost back in a tax credit. If you do it next year you get 21% back.

Some basic information:

Generally you will want to have wells dug for your geothermal. They dig about 200-300' in the ground - sometimes more depending on your area. The rule of thumb is you need one well per ton of cooling.  Your yard is gonna be trashed when this is done, so just be prepared for that.

So for your house, with 3 air conditioners, you may have anywhere from 10-15 tons of cooling. So you may need that many holes drilled in your yard. Check with your local installer of course, as they would know better.

You will also need 3 different geothermal systems. They will include the air handlers, which will replace your existing furnaces and then use your existing ductwork. 

The best part of geothermal is the savings. For every dollar you spend on energy to make the system work, you get about $4 - $5 back in heating or cooling. Compare that to a traditional 95% furnace, where for every dollar you spend on energy, you get .95 of heat.

Your payback generally is around 7 years I believe, so it all depends on how long you are staying in the house. But for a house of 3 systems, I would think the 20-30k price is low. Back when I worked for a company that did geo, our price was about $4K per ton.

 

[Tick]

We have a system installed when we built our house 13 years ago.  No complaints... it costs more to heat in winter than it does to cool in summer.

At the time, there were some options - we have enough property space to do a horizontal piping system 5' below ground (6' below requires a permit).  There are also vertical systems where they drill down for the piping.  There are also open-loop systems where it... uh... maybe takes in creek water and dumps back into the creek?  I can't remember.

We also use the heat from the pump to contribute to heating our water.

Anyway, it's been 13 years and no maintenance has been required.  We had a technician come out a couple of times (every 5 years) to check the system over and it was fine.

We also got two nice HEPA filter screens and just power wash the dirty one when we put in the clean one, and they're still fine after 13 years as well.  That was a good investment over disposable screens.

One thing is that if the heater can't keep up, it kicks in electric heat, which is expensive. For that reason, we don't use any kind of smart thermostat that varies the temperature through the day - we just lock it at a nice temperature all the time.

 

[gianmarco]

Geothermal is the most efficient system you can get. It's also going to be expensive, especially for a house with 3 systems.  The good thing is, there is still a tax credit available. If you install it this year, you get 26% of your total install cost back in a tax credit. If you do it next year you get 21% back.

Some basic information:

Generally you will want to have wells dug for your geothermal. They dig about 200-300' in the ground - sometimes more depending on your area. The rule of thumb is you need one well per ton of cooling.  Your yard is gonna be trashed when this is done, so just be prepared for that.

So for your house, with 3 air conditioners, you may have anywhere from 10-15 tons of cooling. So you may need that many holes drilled in your yard. Check with your local installer of course, as they would know better.

You will also need 3 different geothermal systems. They will include the air handlers, which will replace your existing furnaces and then use your existing ductwork. 

The best part of geothermal is the savings. For every dollar you spend on energy to make the system work, you get about $4 - $5 back in heating or cooling. Compare that to a traditional 95% furnace, where for every dollar you spend on energy, you get .95 of heat.

Your payback generally is around 7 years I believe, so it all depends on how long you are staying in the house. But for a house of 3 systems, I would think the 20-30k price is low. Back when I worked for a company that did geo, our price was about $4K per ton.

This sounds about right for us.  Again, I think ours was ~$40K and we got a 9 ton system, I think.  Our tax credit was ~35%, I believe, 5 years ago.

We have 2 floors and the basement.  We had ours done with 2 units.  One system, the larger one, did the main floor and basement.  The 2nd unit did the upstairs.

 

[Random]

We put in a water (open loop) system 10 years ago. We are already on a well so the system only cost $5k.  Tax credit was $1500 and it's saving us over $1,000/yr in propane.

 

[Ron Swanson]

We put in a water (open loop) system 10 years ago. We are already on a well so the system only cost $5k.  Tax credit was $1500 and it's saving us over $1,000/yr in propane.

Is this the kind of system that has to drain water out somewhere as it runs? I bought a rental property with one of those.  The upside was that the system lasted the previous owners 30+ years.  The downside was dealing with that damn water, especially with tenants in the house.

 

[Ron Swanson]

@OtisNot sure if solar with a powerwall is an option up your way but would that have the same impact in terms of AC power savings but maybe also provide efficiency to other appliances?  Seems like the investment may be similar.

 

[Otis]

Geothermal is the most efficient system you can get. It's also going to be expensive, especially for a house with 3 systems.  The good thing is, there is still a tax credit available. If you install it this year, you get 26% of your total install cost back in a tax credit. If you do it next year you get 21% back.

Some basic information:

Generally you will want to have wells dug for your geothermal. They dig about 200-300' in the ground - sometimes more depending on your area. The rule of thumb is you need one well per ton of cooling.  Your yard is gonna be trashed when this is done, so just be prepared for that.

So for your house, with 3 air conditioners, you may have anywhere from 10-15 tons of cooling. So you may need that many holes drilled in your yard. Check with your local installer of course, as they would know better.

You will also need 3 different geothermal systems. They will include the air handlers, which will replace your existing furnaces and then use your existing ductwork. 

The best part of geothermal is the savings. For every dollar you spend on energy to make the system work, you get about $4 - $5 back in heating or cooling. Compare that to a traditional 95% furnace, where for every dollar you spend on energy, you get .95 of heat.

Your payback generally is around 7 years I believe, so it all depends on how long you are staying in the house. But for a house of 3 systems, I would think the 20-30k price is low. Back when I worked for a company that did geo, our price was about $4K per ton.

That may be right. My buddy who installed did it on a smaller home.  So it may be more. 
 

We hope to stay in the house for the long haul, at least 20 years. So it feels like a good thing to do given that time horizon. I also imagine it will add value to the house whenever we do sell. 

 

[Random]

Is this the kind of system that has to drain water out somewhere as it runs? I bought a rental property with one of those.  The upside was that the system lasted the previous owners 30+ years.  The downside was dealing with that damn water, especially with tenants in the house.

Yes. Pump and dump. It discharges into our storm drainage system. 

 

[Otis]

@OtisNot sure if solar with a powerwall is an option up your way but would that have the same impact in terms of AC power savings but maybe also provide efficiency to other appliances?  Seems like the investment may be similar.

I’ve been wanting the Tesla solar roof but it’s just not available here on the east coast yet.  One day may want to add that too. Between that and geothermal the house would be so cheap to operate on a monthly basis.  

 

[ChiefD]

Is this the kind of system that has to drain water out somewhere as it runs? I bought a rental property with one of those.  The upside was that the system lasted the previous owners 30+ years.  The downside was dealing with that damn water, especially with tenants in the house.

Geothermal typically is a closed loop system. So there should not be water draining anywhere. 

There are geothermal systems that will use a large deep pond if you have one on the property. That system uses the deep cool water to circulate it through the system and then discharges the warm water back into the pond.

 

[El Floppo]

I’ve been wanting the Tesla solar roof but it’s just not available here on the east coast yet.  One day may want to add that too. Between that and geothermal the house would be so cheap to operate on a monthly basis.  

I haven't been asked to look into this in a long while, but I thought there are other options/competitors for the solar roof tiles that are already available in the tri state.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Geothermal typically is a closed loop system. So there should not be water draining anywhere. 

There are geothermal systems that will use a large deep pond if you have one on the property. That system uses the deep cool water to circulate it through the system and then discharges the warm water back into the pond.

The one problem that we have seen with this type of system is that it does increase the surface water temperature a bit which can allow Harmful Algae Blooms to pop up. 
 

Closed loop is the most environmentally sound method, though also the higher cost.