Get Pierre Thomas Now (1 Viewer)

[NajehHejan]

In many 10 man and perhaps 12 man leagues, Pierre Thomas may be sitting there for zero cost as a free agent. Ingram has been underwhelming as usual and is now dealing with a toe injury. If you recall, he’s missed time before with turf toe problems. Regardless of the injury, I think the Saints give Thomas the rock more going forward. Sure Sproles is still a major factor, especially in the passing game, but between the tackles, I see Thomas getting the bulk of the carries, and that of course can be decent RB3/flex value in a high powered offense. He usually catches 3-4 balls a game too, so adding benefit in PPR.

Per Rotoworld via Saints beat writer. The time may be up for Ingram.

[SIZE=10pt]Mark Ingramhttp://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6471/mark-ingram - RB - Saints[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Beat writer Mike Triplett believes Mark Ingram has "missed his chance" to establish himself as the Saints primary runner.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Through two games, Ingram has rushed for 31 yards on 17 carries (1.82 YPC) while displaying zero burst or power. He failed to convert a huge goal-line chance in the narrow Week 2 win at Tampa. Triplett expects there to a be a "subtle flip-flop in the coming weeks, where [Pierre] Thomas becomes more of a 1A and Ingram a 1B, instead of vice versa." We've been suggesting the same thing. Ingram is an inferior back.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=8.5pt]Related:[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]Pierre Thomahttp://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4503/pierre-thomass[/SIZE]

 

[cstu]

Looks good for Thomas, the speculative add is Khiry Robinson.

 

[buck naked]

Thomas has looked far better on the field than Ingram. Thomas at least has some juice. Ingram looks plodding.

 

[Nucker101]

About time! Thomas >> Ingram.

Still a RBBC as usual though. Thomas getting a couple of extra touches just makes him flex worthy at times in PPR leagues, nothing else.

 

[AcerFC]

The sharks drafted Thomas as our RB2 back in August

(or drafted him at RB2 because we had an awful draft)

But hey, this guys speculation is great news to my ears. Lets hope he is right

 

[GroveDiesel]

I need this to be the case, but it seems like pure speculation at this point. It feels like we can all see the same thing, but you never know what the coaching staff sees and what they're thinking. And using the picks they used usually clouds things unless you get a new regime like in Cleveland.

This reporter didn't even say it was info from an inside source or anything. Unless he's specifically seeing something at practice, it's hard to put too much stock in it.

 

[Joe Summer]

This was evident at halftime of Week 1.

 

[Futz]

Seems like there is a thread dedicated to this and him every year. I just dont trust Saint RBs outside of Sproles in a PPR.

 

[zandbak]

Just dropped Mathews for him.

 

[nb009]

Any chance Ingram is traded though????????

I still don't see Thomas completely taking over, which makes this a moot point unless you're desperate for FLEX or something.

 

[pollardsvision]

I hope so. I own Thomas, and have had him a few times in the past (got him for a buck when Ingram went for $17).

But I'm not terribly optimistic. Thomas is great, but I don't trust NO to give him the touches he needs to be a difference maker (even if the anti-Ingram rumblings are true).

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[TheFanatic]

Just dropped Mathews for him.

Why?

 

[FF Ninja]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

 

[zamboni]

I agree with most - PT is a solid player, but I don't think he'll be a carry-the-load guy unless Ingram and Sproles are both hurt.

 

[andyk803]

Somebody dropped him yesterday, I was goign to let him clear waivers, but that news of them maybe giving up on Ingram came out today. Is he worth a #5 waiver in PPR?

 

[Squintz82]

Just dropped Mathews for him.

Is there an opening in your league?

 

[Gustavo Fring]

Just dropped Mathews for him.

You serious, Clark?

 

[Slapdash]

I have always liked Pierre, but being over Ingram still puts him pretty far down in the ranking of NO skill positions.

 

[cubbie5150]

Yeah the Saints could be down to PT & guys off the street & his ceiling for weekly touches would still be ~12 or so. He won't ever be truly featured.

 

[grateful zed]

i dropped him yesterday for mcgahee. he is prolly still there.

 

[SameSongNDance]

You guys have to remember, a key reason why they've limited PTs carries has been due to durability issues. I don't envision him touches the ball too much going forward as I'm quite sure NO is aware of this. He could make for a nice flex but I wouldn't go crazy here.

 

[davearm]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

 

[REDRUM26]

8 years in the NFL and I swear this is his year... I feel it

 

[the spanker]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

 

[GroveDiesel]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

 

[Raider Nation]

This was evident at halftime of Week 1.

...of Ingram's rookie year!

 

[the spanker]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

Yes it would be and right now Ingram's not practicing to add more flavor on the cake. Ingram never seems to be able to stay healthy and if he's dealing with a toe-turf issue, P.T. could run away with the job (not that it would be difficult to do at this point).

 

[Tool]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

exactly. with ivory and now ingram seemingly moving out of the picture, situation is becoming a lot less crowded.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

Yes it would be and right now Ingram's not practicing to add more flavor on the cake. Ingram never seems to be able to stay healthy and if he's dealing with a toe-turf issue, P.T. could run away with the job (not that it would be difficult to do at this point).

The Saints have another RB in their hip pocket, a guy who can cut back.

Triplett is just a guy who hangs around, he writes stuff like this 2 weeks after every fan in the world knows the score. The handwriting was on the wall last week when Ingram failed on 4th down vs the Falcs. So it happened again on 4th down and GL again vs the Bucs, over and over again. Peyton realizes he has to run it to keep the defenses honest and I love that, even with Ingram. But on Sunday, before Triplett, even RW said, "Pierre Thomas should be getting Ingram's carries." Exactly.

Thing is the fans really lost it after the Bucs game; now Ingram is being treated like some field goal shanking kicker or a starting QB who makes mistakes and misses open WRs. So instead of calling this like it has been for the last 2 years, Triplett just feeds the peops red meat, big deal.

They tried Frenchy as a regular starter a few years back, it did not work, it was too much for him, they need him healthy and effective. -- If Ingram is out I'd expect what's behind Door No. 4 to make an entrance, and if so, and if he rips one, then you will know.

 

[Bobby Guano]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

Yes it would be and right now Ingram's not practicing to add more flavor on the cake. Ingram never seems to be able to stay healthy and if he's dealing with a toe-turf issue, P.T. could run away with the job (not that it would be difficult to do at this point).

People seem to forget that Pierre was VERY productive as the primary RB in the pre Ingram/Sproles era. It was his propensity to get nicked up and miss games that put him in the doghouse and lead to the Ingram/Sproles addtions.

I think if the Saints were to just roll with Pierre/Sproles they would be in good shape and so would fantasy owners.

 

[Diamond]

Khiry Robinson gonna get a shot?

 

[the spanker]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

Yes it would be and right now Ingram's not practicing to add more flavor on the cake. Ingram never seems to be able to stay healthy and if he's dealing with a toe-turf issue, P.T. could run away with the job (not that it would be difficult to do at this point).

The Saints have another RB in their hip pocket, a guy who can cut back.

Triplett is just a guy who hangs around, he writes stuff like this 2 weeks after every fan in the world knows the score. The handwriting was on the wall last week when Ingram failed on 4th down vs the Falcs. So it happened again on 4th down and GL again vs the Bucs, over and over again. Peyton realizes he has to run it to keep the defenses honest and I love that, even with Ingram. But on Sunday, before Triplett, even RW said, "Pierre Thomas should be getting Ingram's carries." Exactly.

Thing is the fans really lost it after the Bucs game; now Ingram is being treated like some field goal shanking kicker or a starting QB who makes mistakes and misses open WRs. So instead of calling this like it has been for the last 2 years, Triplett just feeds the peops red meat, big deal.

They tried Frenchy as a regular starter a few years back, it did not work, it was too much for him, they need him healthy and effective. -- If Ingram is out I'd expect what's behind Door No. 4 to make an entrance, and if so, and if he rips one, then you will know.

 

[valhallan]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

This is correct. The Saints want to keep PT healthy (because he's obviously their best back), so they will never make him a true bellcow. I'd look for Khiry Robinson to start getting some touches.

 

[the spanker]

People have been saying this for half a decade.

If the Saints were ever going to give PT a lot of carries, they'd have done it by now. Keep in mind they gave Mike Bell more carries than PT, then they gave Chris Ivory more carries than PT, then they gave Mark Ingram in 10 games more than PT in 16 games, then they gave Ingram more carries again...

He's turning 29 in a few months and has only played 16 games once in his career. This workhorse dream just isn't going to come true. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good move for the Saints, just that it isn't going to happen.

If it hasn't happened yet with Thomas in NO, I'm not sure why it would now.

Well who else do they have because Ingram sure ain't it. P.T. doesn't need a lot of touches (PPR) to put up points if he's truly leapfrogged over Ingram. If he gets 5 more touches a game I think that's really noteworthy no?

Especially if he starts to get all the goaline touches. That would be huge.

Yes it would be and right now Ingram's not practicing to add more flavor on the cake. Ingram never seems to be able to stay healthy and if he's dealing with a toe-turf issue, P.T. could run away with the job (not that it would be difficult to do at this point).

The Saints have another RB in their hip pocket, a guy who can cut back.

Triplett is just a guy who hangs around, he writes stuff like this 2 weeks after every fan in the world knows the score. The handwriting was on the wall last week when Ingram failed on 4th down vs the Falcs. So it happened again on 4th down and GL again vs the Bucs, over and over again. Peyton realizes he has to run it to keep the defenses honest and I love that, even with Ingram. But on Sunday, before Triplett, even RW said, "Pierre Thomas should be getting Ingram's carries." Exactly.

Thing is the fans really lost it after the Bucs game; now Ingram is being treated like some field goal shanking kicker or a starting QB who makes mistakes and misses open WRs. So instead of calling this like it has been for the last 2 years, Triplett just feeds the peops red meat, big deal.

They tried Frenchy as a regular starter a few years back, it did not work, it was too much for him, they need him healthy and effective. -- If Ingram is out I'd expect what's behind Door No. 4 to make an entrance, and if so, and if he rips one, then you will know.

I would expect someone to make an entrance. However does he have the same level of trust of Payton? I'm not saying P.T. would be this in-between banger bell-cow back every game. He's far too valuable to be used strictly in that role.

What I do believe is if he gets more touches in this offense, and becomes the guy who they turn to more often around the GL P.T. would easily be a RB2. In PPR he can score through the air as well on the ground and therefore is more of a threat to defenses than Ingram ever could be and probably much better than this RB#4 guy your talking about.

 

[kOOk]

seems like you N.O. homers are mostly in agreement regarding Ingram's decline. couple questions for you.

what's up with his toe? is it really becoming a concern?

and are you serious that some guy off the bench would eat into P.T.'s carries. i have trouble believing that and thus confer with the O.P. if both of the above is true.

 

[cstu]

seems like you N.O. homers are mostly in agreement regarding Ingram's decline. couple questions for you.

what's up with his toe? is it really becoming a concern?

and are you serious that some guy off the bench would eat into P.T.'s carries. i have trouble believing that and thus confer with the O.P. if both of the above is true.

I'm not a NO homer but I watched every one of Robinson's preseason plays and he looks legit both running and receiving.

 

[Zigg]

What pissed me off the most about the Ingram trade/pick, is that the Saints are very good at picking up UDFAs to plug in. Pierre, Ivory and Bell have all had at least moderate success in the NFL, now it's time for Cadet or Robinson. Zero reason to invest as much as they did at RB. Pierre/Ivory/Bell and Sproles would have been an incredible backfield with picks to spend elsewhere. What could have been?

 

[ponchsox]

He's a 30 yard per game RB as long as Sproles is healthy.

 

[valhallan]

seems like you N.O. homers are mostly in agreement regarding Ingram's decline. couple questions for you.

what's up with his toe? is it really becoming a concern?

and are you serious that some guy off the bench would eat into P.T.'s carries. i have trouble believing that and thus confer with the O.P. if both of the above is true.

Not sure about the toe - I wrote off Ingram a while ago. As for a guy off the bench eating into PTs carries, that's not what would happen. PT simply won't ever carry more than he already does; his usage has been steady for years. Robinson would simply come into the game in situations we normally would have seen Ingram.

Pierre Thomas is the Saints' best running back and has been for 7 seasons. However he's had over 15 carries just 8 times in his career, and not once since late 2010 when he got injured after 19 carries and missed the playoffs (the loss at Seattle). They want him healthy.

 

[Adso]

For fun; what would PT's numbers look like if he assumed Ingram's workload in PPR?

• Thomas: 14/72 run (5.1ypc) and 8/35 rec (4.4ypr) on 9 targets
• Ingram: 17/31 run (1.8ypc) and 0/0 (0 avg) on 1 targets

Assuming PT took all Ingrams's carries to date and maintained his ypc = 31/158 run which averages out to 15.5/79 run 4/18 rec per week.

That's 13.7 FP/week for PT if he completely supplanted Ingram, and year end totals looking like: 248/1264/? and 64/288/? = 219.2FP

There's no way Ingram's carries drop completely to zero, even if his role devolves into a GL back/backup, and PT isn't likely to see 100 carries more than his career high... so what is reasonable considering the RB usage we've seen so far in NO? How can his receiving totals dip if he sees more time? If anything they'd go up slightly, although they are capped by Sproles to a point... and 64 seems like a ceiling..

Assuming a reduced number of attempts and a slightly regressed ypc of 4.75 = 200/950/? run 64/288/? rec = 187.8FP

That translates to 2012 RB#18 after Shone Green and before BJGE. All of these projections assume zero TD's. Add 4 TD's (his career avg) and he's a Top 15 RB in 2012. Solid RB3/flex territory flirting with RB2.

All the above questions in the thread apply and two games isn't really enough to project with, but it seems like opportunity is there. Between their 3 backs the Saints look like they are committed to keeping the run game as a potential threat with 22-24 carries each weekend. Sproles is averaging 3-4 more carries a game than he did last year, so if he regresses to last year usage (which was close to his career high) and Ingram's touches decline to GL attempts... that 15 touches per week for PT is starting to sound within reach.

Almost convincing myself here, but still not ready to drop Ellington for him with RM's toe issue in the news.

 

[Adso]

PT simply won't ever carry more than he already does; his usage has been steady for years. Robinson would simply come into the game in situations we normally would have seen Ingram.

Pierre Thomas is the Saints' best running back and has been for 7 seasons. However he's had over 15 carries just 8 times in his career, and not once since late 2010 when he got injured after 19 carries and missed the playoffs (the loss at Seattle). They want him healthy.

This knocked the hype right out of me... sounds disappointing and truthful.

 

[NajehHejan]

My prediction is Ingram sits this week and PT gets 10 rushes for 45 yards, catches 5 balls for 35 yards, and scores 1 TD. That's 19 points in 1ppr. Not too shabby for a flex. The guy doesn't need 25 carries to be productive. Who cares if some young no-name UDFA gets a handful of totes.

 

[NajehHejan]

Rotoworld will eat crow for their bashing. Choo choo!

Mark Ingram (toe, questionable) missed his third straight practice Friday.
Ingram is expected to miss Sunday's game against Arizona, which could get Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas a few more carries apiece. Thomas remains a low-end flex option, while Sproles is an every-week starter in all leagues.

 

[the spanker]

Hmmm I have both of them and debating on playing Sproles as a starter and Thomas in the flex spot. Good news. Is Thomas really a low flex option with Ingram out?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't know about season long but Pierre could be a decent play against the Cards; I could see him getting a TD, if not from the goal line then off one of his awesome screens. Sproles is just as capable of getting those points though. Pretty even money especially as no one can tell if Robinson will actually get in. And especially with all the crapshoots in at RB elsewhere right now, between Starks/Snelling/etc. The Saints are primed this year though, they haven't been putting up 40 yet but they will.

 

[NajehHejan]

Hmmm I have both of them and debating on playing Sproles as a starter and Thomas in the flex spot. Good news. Is Thomas really a low flex option with Ingram out?

Of course he's not a low end flex option with Ingram out. That is Rotoworld bias/opinion. He is a middle of the road flex option. I'm on board, hoping for the best.

 

[az_prof]

Hmmm I have both of them and debating on playing Sproles as a starter and Thomas in the flex spot. Good news. Is Thomas really a low flex option with Ingram out?

I think with Ingram out it gives you a 50/50 shot of getting a TD from Thomas.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Would you guys rather have Pierre Thomas over Woodhead for ROS?

 

[need2know]

Would you guys rather have Pierre Thomas over Woodhead for ROS?

Easily

 

[Raider Nation]

Would you guys rather have Pierre Thomas over Woodhead for ROS?

IF the Saints have finally given up on the lengthy, ill-fated Ingram experiment, Thomas.... without a doubt.