Getting an MRI on Tuesday……. (1 Viewer)

[The Longtime Lurker]

I'm a big hiker as well but unless you've got some good elevation gain hikes near you, I don't think you're getting the same workout.

Depends what you define as 'good.' My work is a variety in-office and regional visits - 106 sites within an hour or so from home base. This is the list of weekday workouts from the last 2 weeks:

45 mins 628'
44 mins 381'
61 mins 721'
29 mins 496'
47 mins 381' (different route, elevation just a coincidence)

Those were all amidst my daily routine, and not every week will break as favorably as the last 2. On my plan for this week only Tuesday will allow for this sort of workout - may just do urban hill repeats if I can sneak out Wed. But what I cited above is almost exclusively technical routes - rocks, roots, steep inclines, creek crossings, single track, etc. Ones where the flatter sections still require technical running. Conditions will eventually force me to more bridal trails, but it'll net similar elevation and footwork demands, it's just those demands shift more towards ice. I'm not familiar with NJ's terrain, but I assume this area has some similarities to the NW section of the state as it's Appalachian foothills - I'm sure we deal with more ice though. It's difficult for me to get to our best routes amidst a normal week, pretty much need to have one of about a dozen sites on the list with a gap before / after, but when I have large enough windows (at least 2.5 hours) I'll get out there like I did Sat am.

69 mins 997'

When I get in better shape, I'll be able to go a further. I was gassed at an hour and thrilled most of the final mile was downhill. I doubt I'll get to more than 90 mins this year, but if this habit sticks, I expect to when things dry out next year. As I get in better shape I'll definitely cover more ground though. I used to pace these things under 10 min / mi avg, whereas I didn't have any miles under 10 on Sat - I turned around early due to both fatigue and available time Sat. I'd need to scroll through my history to see if I've had any 2K+ elevation routes, but I've had several in this area with four digits.

For my basis of comparison the biggest climb in my area which I do regularly leading up to my hiking trips is 1200' gain in slightly more than a mile. That probably takes me about 50 minutes out and back. I think that's how long it takes. Maybe more. I'm doing it tomorrow morning so I'll time myself again. Heck of a workout but if I had to choose, I still think my road ride of a similar time duration is more intense. My regular route has a handful of short steep climbs and I guess its just that I'm pushing myself close to the max on each of them so I feel I'm just expending more effort. Now I could do a flatter route in which case that hike might be more demanding but if I was comparing apples to apples in terms of difficulty between the two activities, I think cycling is the more demanding. But either is a great activity as you get older so we're really just splitting hairs. I do think hiking takes more of a toll on your body (especially the knees on technical downhils) if you're doing these steeper routes so in terms of longevity cyling is the way to go as long as you don't crash. People do die or need rescuing hiking as well so maybe the odds of catastrophic injury are equal for both.

Yeah, I bike up the same ridge that I walk. It’s harder than walking going up, with max gradient ~15-20%, IIRC. Issue is, the decent is waaay easier, so total time in zone 2+ HR is lower.

But agree that cycling is a good overall exercise. While it spares the knees, can be rough on lumbar discs.

Personal experience or data you've seen? Might be a fit issue. Personally never had issues and my lumbar discs are not good. Only problem I get from riding is hand discomfort. I have basal joint athritis so it aggravates that.

My personal dream is to find a hiking trail that has a good climb (like 1k ft gain per mile) and a zipline back to the bottom. I would move to a place that offered that.

Personal experience. But it’s easy to imagine the posture assumed while cycling puts odd forces on the spine, particular when on the drops.

I never ride the drops. Those people are pyschos. Correction. If I'm bombing down a big hill and I want to maximize my launch distance when I crash, then I'll go into the drops.

I don't know. I'm 47 ride plenty of drops. The geometry of modern bikes, a good fit, and plenty of squish (full suspension) take care of these concerns in my experience.

I'm somewhat baffled by the older crowd drifting towards hardtails. I get why i suppose, but full squish sure smoothes out the rough edges even on more xc style trails.

Eta yesterday we did 25 miles 3k of elevation which comes in the form of 50-75 ft punchy climbs at a time. Roots, rocks, loose sand the entire time, every foot you fight for. Zero joint pain today. That same route (even 5-10 miles of it) walking, hiking, running and my knees, hips, lower back would be sore af.

I was talking about road biking.

Mountain biking is a whole nother can of worms, where there’s plenty of injury risk, based on trail obstacles. It’s one of the few sports participants take perverse pride in the bumps, scrapes, and cuts they accrue during their rides.

I subluxed my shoulder after an endo years ago, which effectively ended my mountain biking career.

ETA Agree full suspension much gentler on one’s spine.

ETA2 I just realized we’re talking about different “drops”. And yes, jumps and drops are inherently risky, even with the best bike.

Gotcha. I agree and struggle with the static positioning of road biking and much prefer the constant body movement from mountain biking. It's not for everybody, but you don't necessarily have to ride double blacks, easy flow trails, even bike paths on a bike with suspension and a good fit can really save the back and neck. Good paddle grips work wonders on the hands and wrists. I guess that's what i was meaning. Even without "mountain biking" a "mountain bike" with full suspension can make for a comfortable ride that limits most pain associated with other forms of cardio outside of swimming.

Yes, those scrapes, cuts, oddy directed fingers are a source of pride. Perverse yes, good stories hanging out at the trail head also yes.

Fall risk from features are always there, but with the proper bike impact pain is almost completely negated.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I'm a big hiker as well but unless you've got some good elevation gain hikes near you, I don't think you're getting the same workout.

Depends what you define as 'good.' My work is a variety in-office and regional visits - 106 sites within an hour or so from home base. This is the list of weekday workouts from the last 2 weeks:

45 mins 628'
44 mins 381'
61 mins 721'
29 mins 496'
47 mins 381' (different route, elevation just a coincidence)

Those were all amidst my daily routine, and not every week will break as favorably as the last 2. On my plan for this week only Tuesday will allow for this sort of workout - may just do urban hill repeats if I can sneak out Wed. But what I cited above is almost exclusively technical routes - rocks, roots, steep inclines, creek crossings, single track, etc. Ones where the flatter sections still require technical running. Conditions will eventually force me to more bridal trails, but it'll net similar elevation and footwork demands, it's just those demands shift more towards ice. I'm not familiar with NJ's terrain, but I assume this area has some similarities to the NW section of the state as it's Appalachian foothills - I'm sure we deal with more ice though. It's difficult for me to get to our best routes amidst a normal week, pretty much need to have one of about a dozen sites on the list with a gap before / after, but when I have large enough windows (at least 2.5 hours) I'll get out there like I did Sat am.

69 mins 997'

When I get in better shape, I'll be able to go a further. I was gassed at an hour and thrilled most of the final mile was downhill. I doubt I'll get to more than 90 mins this year, but if this habit sticks, I expect to when things dry out next year. As I get in better shape I'll definitely cover more ground though. I used to pace these things under 10 min / mi avg, whereas I didn't have any miles under 10 on Sat - I turned around early due to both fatigue and available time Sat. I'd need to scroll through my history to see if I've had any 2K+ elevation routes, but I've had several in this area with four digits.

For my basis of comparison the biggest climb in my area which I do regularly leading up to my hiking trips is 1200' gain in slightly more than a mile. That probably takes me about 50 minutes out and back. I think that's how long it takes. Maybe more. I'm doing it tomorrow morning so I'll time myself again. Heck of a workout but if I had to choose, I still think my road ride of a similar time duration is more intense. My regular route has a handful of short steep climbs and I guess its just that I'm pushing myself close to the max on each of them so I feel I'm just expending more effort. Now I could do a flatter route in which case that hike might be more demanding but if I was comparing apples to apples in terms of difficulty between the two activities, I think cycling is the more demanding. But either is a great activity as you get older so we're really just splitting hairs. I do think hiking takes more of a toll on your body (especially the knees on technical downhils) if you're doing these steeper routes so in terms of longevity cyling is the way to go as long as you don't crash. People do die or need rescuing hiking as well so maybe the odds of catastrophic injury are equal for both.

Yeah, I bike up the same ridge that I walk. It’s harder than walking going up, with max gradient ~15-20%, IIRC. Issue is, the decent is waaay easier, so total time in zone 2+ HR is lower.

But agree that cycling is a good overall exercise. While it spares the knees, can be rough on lumbar discs.

Personal experience or data you've seen? Might be a fit issue. Personally never had issues and my lumbar discs are not good. Only problem I get from riding is hand discomfort. I have basal joint athritis so it aggravates that.

My personal dream is to find a hiking trail that has a good climb (like 1k ft gain per mile) and a zipline back to the bottom. I would move to a place that offered that.

Personal experience. But it’s easy to imagine the posture assumed while cycling puts odd forces on the spine, particular when on the drops.

I never ride the drops. Those people are pyschos. Correction. If I'm bombing down a big hill and I want to maximize my launch distance when I crash, then I'll go into the drops.

I don't know. I'm 47 ride plenty of drops. The geometry of modern bikes, a good fit, and plenty of squish (full suspension) take care of these concerns in my experience.

I'm somewhat baffled by the older crowd drifting towards hardtails. I get why i suppose, but full squish sure smoothes out the rough edges even on more xc style trails.

Eta yesterday we did 25 miles 3k of elevation which comes in the form of 50-75 ft punchy climbs at a time. Roots, rocks, loose sand the entire time, every foot you fight for. Zero joint pain today. That same route (even 5-10 miles of it) walking, hiking, running and my knees, hips, lower back would be sore af.

Wrong surface my man. But yeah, I don't do mtb drops either. Two feet is probably my max. My number one goal is to not get hurt. Goals number 2-10 as well. But I'm with you. Full squish for life. There's always some pyscho on a fully rigid single speed. Some people just like to suffer. Only thing I'd change at some point is going electric. My upper body does take a little bit of a pouding with the chunky stuff on the 1st couple of rides transitioning back from road to dirt. That road riding is just so smooth besides the occassional pothole that catches you off guard.

Drops as in drop bars, trails as in hiking

I'll work on reading comprehension next time. Apologies for the detour.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm a big hiker as well but unless you've got some good elevation gain hikes near you, I don't think you're getting the same workout.

Depends what you define as 'good.' My work is a variety in-office and regional visits - 106 sites within an hour or so from home base. This is the list of weekday workouts from the last 2 weeks:

45 mins 628'
44 mins 381'
61 mins 721'
29 mins 496'
47 mins 381' (different route, elevation just a coincidence)

Those were all amidst my daily routine, and not every week will break as favorably as the last 2. On my plan for this week only Tuesday will allow for this sort of workout - may just do urban hill repeats if I can sneak out Wed. But what I cited above is almost exclusively technical routes - rocks, roots, steep inclines, creek crossings, single track, etc. Ones where the flatter sections still require technical running. Conditions will eventually force me to more bridal trails, but it'll net similar elevation and footwork demands, it's just those demands shift more towards ice. I'm not familiar with NJ's terrain, but I assume this area has some similarities to the NW section of the state as it's Appalachian foothills - I'm sure we deal with more ice though. It's difficult for me to get to our best routes amidst a normal week, pretty much need to have one of about a dozen sites on the list with a gap before / after, but when I have large enough windows (at least 2.5 hours) I'll get out there like I did Sat am.

69 mins 997'

When I get in better shape, I'll be able to go a further. I was gassed at an hour and thrilled most of the final mile was downhill. I doubt I'll get to more than 90 mins this year, but if this habit sticks, I expect to when things dry out next year. As I get in better shape I'll definitely cover more ground though. I used to pace these things under 10 min / mi avg, whereas I didn't have any miles under 10 on Sat - I turned around early due to both fatigue and available time Sat. I'd need to scroll through my history to see if I've had any 2K+ elevation routes, but I've had several in this area with four digits.

For my basis of comparison the biggest climb in my area which I do regularly leading up to my hiking trips is 1200' gain in slightly more than a mile. That probably takes me about 50 minutes out and back. I think that's how long it takes. Maybe more. I'm doing it tomorrow morning so I'll time myself again. Heck of a workout but if I had to choose, I still think my road ride of a similar time duration is more intense. My regular route has a handful of short steep climbs and I guess its just that I'm pushing myself close to the max on each of them so I feel I'm just expending more effort. Now I could do a flatter route in which case that hike might be more demanding but if I was comparing apples to apples in terms of difficulty between the two activities, I think cycling is the more demanding. But either is a great activity as you get older so we're really just splitting hairs. I do think hiking takes more of a toll on your body (especially the knees on technical downhils) if you're doing these steeper routes so in terms of longevity cyling is the way to go as long as you don't crash. People do die or need rescuing hiking as well so maybe the odds of catastrophic injury are equal for both.

Yeah, I bike up the same ridge that I walk. It’s harder than walking going up, with max gradient ~15-20%, IIRC. Issue is, the decent is waaay easier, so total time in zone 2+ HR is lower.

But agree that cycling is a good overall exercise. While it spares the knees, can be rough on lumbar discs.

Personal experience or data you've seen? Might be a fit issue. Personally never had issues and my lumbar discs are not good. Only problem I get from riding is hand discomfort. I have basal joint athritis so it aggravates that.

My personal dream is to find a hiking trail that has a good climb (like 1k ft gain per mile) and a zipline back to the bottom. I would move to a place that offered that.

Do you just not enjoy hiking downhill? I’ve always been told it’s best to do the ups and downs because they work your legs slightly differently.

Downhill rougher on knees, which can be mitigated by quad and core strength.

Bullseye. Strength train to supplement the cardio exercise, so you don't have to cut corners. Or at least delay the inevitable as long as possible.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Update:
Have been doing PT 3x per week (this is middle of week 2). Likely will do a total of 6-8 weeks PT.

Had MRI earlier this week. Good news was nothing torn. Doctor called it a grade 2 but basically said it’s either a bad grade 1 or a light grade 2. No meniscus issues. No damage to knee. Very lucky.

Strongly advised by ortho doc to play tennis and do moderate running - or ideally cycling - instead of basketball. Also advised to do yoga 2x per week. Waiting on spousal approval to find a class focused on late 20s / early 30s women. My friend Ashley (who is married) teaches yoga (!!) so that could get spousal sign off.

Thanks to folks who offered suggestions or provided support. And to those who took this fairly dull thread down a bizarre rabbit hole for awhile.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Update:
Have been doing PT 3x per week (this is middle of week 2). Likely will do a total of 6-8 weeks PT.

Had MRI earlier this week. Good news was nothing torn. Doctor called it a grade 2 but basically said it’s either a bad grade 1 or a light grade 2. No meniscus issues. No damage to knee. Very lucky.

Strongly advised by ortho doc to play tennis and do moderate running - or ideally cycling - instead of basketball. Also advised to do yoga 2x per week. Waiting on spousal approval to find a class focused on late 20s / early 30s women. My friend Ashley (who is married) teaches yoga (!!) so that could get spousal sign off.

Thanks to folks who offered suggestions or provided support. And to those who took this fairly dull thread down a bizarre rabbit hole for awhile.

It’s good to hear orthopods are on board with discouraging middle aged basketball. But to clarify, grade 2 strain of what?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Update:
Have been doing PT 3x per week (this is middle of week 2). Likely will do a total of 6-8 weeks PT.

Had MRI earlier this week. Good news was nothing torn. Doctor called it a grade 2 but basically said it’s either a bad grade 1 or a light grade 2. No meniscus issues. No damage to knee. Very lucky.

Strongly advised by ortho doc to play tennis and do moderate running - or ideally cycling - instead of basketball. Also advised to do yoga 2x per week. Waiting on spousal approval to find a class focused on late 20s / early 30s women. My friend Ashley (who is married) teaches yoga (!!) so that could get spousal sign off.

Thanks to folks who offered suggestions or provided support. And to those who took this fairly dull thread down a bizarre rabbit hole for awhile.

It’s good to hear orthopods are on board with discouraging middle aged basketball. But to clarify, grade 2 strain of what?

Oh sorry, was typing while watching kid swim practice. Hamstring. That has been the hypothesis of the doc / PT for the past week.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Update:
Have been doing PT 3x per week (this is middle of week 2). Likely will do a total of 6-8 weeks PT.

Had MRI earlier this week. Good news was nothing torn. Doctor called it a grade 2 but basically said it’s either a bad grade 1 or a light grade 2. No meniscus issues. No damage to knee. Very lucky.

Strongly advised by ortho doc to play tennis and do moderate running - or ideally cycling - instead of basketball. Also advised to do yoga 2x per week. Waiting on spousal approval to find a class focused on late 20s / early 30s women. My friend Ashley (who is married) teaches yoga (!!) so that could get spousal sign off.

Thanks to folks who offered suggestions or provided support. And to those who took this fairly dull thread down a bizarre rabbit hole for awhile.

It’s good to hear orthopods are on board with discouraging middle aged basketball. But to clarify, grade 2 strain of what?

Oh sorry, was typing while watching kid swim practice. Hamstring. That has been the hypothesis of the doc / PT for the past week.

OK. I’m 3 months out from a hamstring tear, and rehab is growing well. Have PT in about an hour, with my final orthopedics follow up tomorrow. Gonna ask about my “return to sport” timeline.

I’m hoping that starts next month, as 4-6 months seems to be the norm after surgery. I’m sure your rehab will be much quicker.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Update:
Have been doing PT 3x per week (this is middle of week 2). Likely will do a total of 6-8 weeks PT.

Had MRI earlier this week. Good news was nothing torn. Doctor called it a grade 2 but basically said it’s either a bad grade 1 or a light grade 2. No meniscus issues. No damage to knee. Very lucky.

Strongly advised by ortho doc to play tennis and do moderate running - or ideally cycling - instead of basketball. Also advised to do yoga 2x per week. Waiting on spousal approval to find a class focused on late 20s / early 30s women. My friend Ashley (who is married) teaches yoga (!!) so that could get spousal sign off.

Thanks to folks who offered suggestions or provided support. And to those who took this fairly dull thread down a bizarre rabbit hole for awhile.

It’s good to hear orthopods are on board with discouraging middle aged basketball. But to clarify, grade 2 strain of what?

Oh sorry, was typing while watching kid swim practice. Hamstring. That has been the hypothesis of the doc / PT for the past week.

OK. I’m 3 months out from a hamstring tear, and rehab is growing well. Have PT in about an hour, with my final orthopedics follow up tomorrow. Gonna ask about my “return to sport” timeline.

I’m hoping that starts next month, as 4-6 months seems to be the norm after surgery. I’m sure your rehab will be much quicker.

Fingers crossed for you! I have a solid pain tolerance. Can’t imagine what a torn hammy feels like. Hope you are at full health soon.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Ok FBGs doctors……good times here in the APK household. Since FBGs has the best of everything — doctors, athletes, thinkers — here is the situation:

Injured myself playing basketball yesterday. Had two sore hamstrings as of 5 weeks ago, gradually nursed them to what I thought was health. Didn’t do anything particularly athletic yesterday - just took a step and turned to run, and felt a pop behind my knee. Immediately couldn’t put weight on my leg. Felt pain right behind the knee, and general weakness in the leg.

I did the RICE method immediately. No noticeable swelling. No bruising. Able to extend and bend my leg. Pain is a 2.5 or 3 on a scale of 10 when I’m just sitting with the leg immobilized. Just low level annoying aches. Some dull pain on the sides and front of the knee.

I’m going for an MRI on Tuesday. Went to the ER yesterday because that’s what my BIL (doctor) said to do since I couldn’t put weight on the leg. Of course they did an x-ray, of course it shed zero light on things, of course they said “well, you really need an MRI.”

What do the FBGs experts think is the most likely diagnosis given the situation and current symptoms?

Sounds suspicious for an ACL injury.

ER was likely unnecessary for this. You just need to get in to see an orthopedic doctor. A lot of them have injury/walk in clinics. Even without that, you can usually get in within a couple of days.

I would do that before getting the MRI. You'll likely still get the MRI, but start with ortho. In the meantime, RICE as you are and don't put any weight on it. Get crutches (and fit them) and use those until you are seen.

Sorry :(

And, on a side note, this is why those of us at our age shouldn't be doing basketball. Not a matter of if, but when that ACL goes. If you're lucky and it's not that, take this as a warning to give it up.

Thx gian. I also thought an ER unnecessary (!!) and have the orthopedic appointment on Tuesday scheduled already. Technically the MRI isn’t scheduled but I’m surmising the ortho will have me do one either that day or later in the week.

I’ve known for years that basketball would likely end in an injury. And I take your counsel to heart — with the caveat that people are blowing out AcLs and Achilles left and right playing pickleball (the lamest, pansiest “sport” of all time). So should I avoid pickleball too? Skiing - lots of knee injuries. Boom. I hate swimming - that’s out. Running……well, I love it but my body doesn’t……

Anyway. Getting old sucks. Thx for the reply.

I’ve torn my acl twice. Sounds acl related at least. I just ski without it now. And refuse to play pickle ball. Because I know my dumb *** will blow something else out trying to get to Mildred’s drop shot.