God Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again. (2 Viewers)

[JuniorNB]

I am as big of a Bengals fan as there is on these boards and I wouldn't dispute a Burfict suspension of multiple games. He's a repeat offender and while I overall don't mind the Bengals out-bully the bully mentality, you have to accept the inevitable consequences. Sometimes that means a penalty, or a suspension, or even a playoff exit.

Besides, they can survive part of a regular season without him.

Ironically, they'd have survived a playoff game without him.

 

[cheese]

I am as big of a Bengals fan as there is on these boards and I wouldn't dispute a Burfict suspension of multiple games. He's a repeat offender and while I overall don't mind the Bengals out-bully the bully mentality, you have to accept the inevitable consequences. Sometimes that means a penalty, or a suspension, or even a playoff exit.

Besides, they can survive part of a regular season without him.

Ironically, they'd have survived a playoff game without him.

Not even close to true.

 

[Godsbrother]

I am as big of a Bengals fan as there is on these boards and I wouldn't dispute a Burfict suspension of multiple games. He's a repeat offender and while I overall don't mind the Bengals out-bully the bully mentality, you have to accept the inevitable consequences. Sometimes that means a penalty, or a suspension, or even a playoff exit.

Besides, they can survive part of a regular season without him.

Ironically, they'd have survived a playoff game without him.

Not even close to true.

Agreed. Burfict played one heluva game. He was the difference maker for the Bengals, both good and bad.

 

[Run It Up]

Burfict shouldn't be allowed to play in the NFL. They talk about player safety all the time but Pacman, Pollard, Merriweather, Burfict, Ward, Suh - habitual ####lords that occasionally get slaps on the wrist.

Yep but Sazier's torpedo to Gio's head with the top of his helmet was a nice clean play that knocked Gio out cold for 5 minutes. Not a fan of either team but man the criticism of players and coaches was so one sided in that game it was crazy.

Everyone was cool with an assistant coach on the field going after six opposing players but not happy at all with the players reacting to it.

On what planet is that not a penalty?

And the catch!?!?!? ... Don't get me started.

Olinemen are dirty too and it often goes unnoticed but Burfict earned his reputation he's an unapologetically dirty player.

No one said a thing about Von Miller punching people all game the game Talib poked a dude in the eye cause no one saw it, but it still happened.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

God had nothing to do with it, they took a dump on themselves.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Mental midgets in leadership roles rarely yields positive results.

That was a first for me... the team WITH the lead in a play-off game can't contain their volatility for one minute to salt away the win?

This is how they're built. You get talented players at rock bottom prices because they're borderline uncontrollable... and this is the result you have to live with.

Exactly, this is how they've operated during the entire Marvin Lewis era with absolutely no success.

lol... your definition of "success" pre-Lewis and with Lewis in charge must not be one in common use.

 

[dirtyjay]

I am as big of a Bengals fan as there is on these boards and I wouldn't dispute a Burfict suspension of multiple games. He's a repeat offender and while I overall don't mind the Bengals out-bully the bully mentality, you have to accept the inevitable consequences. Sometimes that means a penalty, or a suspension, or even a playoff exit.

Besides, they can survive part of a regular season without him.

Ironically, they'd have survived a playoff game without him.

Not even close to true.

Agreed. Burfict played one heluva game. He was the difference maker for the Bengals, both good and bad.

Burfict is a great football player, but he is horrible at discipline.

If he can keep his head in the game, you would see why he should have been a first round pick. His talent is off the charts.

His head and its issues are why he went undrafted.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision. I also know that Burfict was heading toward the endzone while the ball going over and past Brown in the air and he had time to come BACK UP FIELD slightly toward brown to lay the hit on him. If had just continued on his current trajectory he would have missed Brown entirely. He course corrected to hit the guy in the head.

This was AFTER the intentional knee to the Roethlisberger's shoulder after the sack. Can you explain away that video too? I suppose it was just momentum that drove his leg backwards and then forwards into the shoulder as he was laying on the ground?

Look there are plenty of illegal hits by players on all teams, some of which are called and some not. But Burfict is an animal, intentionally trying to hurt people after plays are over. This is NOT his first rodeo. Ask Maxx Williams, Greg Olsen, Torrey Smith, or Cam Newton.

Even in college the dude racked up a personal foul about every other game he played. But hey, those were all accidents too.

 

[SIDA!]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision.

Don't you think this is relevant information that one should have?

I looked at several clips in slow motion and from the time the ball passed Brown's fingers until Burfict hit him it was less than one second to about a seoncd and a half depending on the slow motion clip.

Burfict literally had a fraction of a second to respond.

Let's put all of that aside for a second. I have a question that I legitimately do not know the answer to.

Assume the same sequence of events but that Brown caught the ball and Burfict hit him in the head with the shoulder. Is that an illegal or legal hit?

 

[JuniorNB]

Three game suspension for Birfict. Would have preferred four, but this sends a message. I'm sure he's too much of a thug to change, but next time it'll be half a season.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision.

Don't you think this is relevant information that one should have?

I looked at several clips in slow motion and from the time the ball passed Brown's fingers until Burfict hit him it was less than one second to about a seoncd and a half depending on the slow motion clip.

Burfict literally had a fraction of a second to respond.

Let's put all of that aside for a second. I have a question that I legitimately do not know the answer to.

Assume the same sequence of events but that Brown caught the ball and Burfict hit him in the head with the shoulder. Is that an illegal or legal hit?

I think he had a little more than that -- about 2.5 steps based on all the videos I saw as the ball sailed over Brown. Burfict is expected to pull up and not hit the QB if he is two steps away, so he had more than enough time to avoid Brown. But he didn't.

I also agree that it looks like Burfict altered his trajectory to hit Brown -- again, if he had time to alter his body to hit Brown, he could have done the same to avoid him.

There's a line between playing with ferocity and intensity, and with intent to injure. Burfict chose the latter, and deservedly lost the game for his team

 

[SIDA!]

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

 

[msommer]

I think Dentist would like this thread, based on the title alone

 

[scothawk]

Warning lights have been on for a while on this guy.

They started shining brighter when he ran down the tunnel a few minutes before this.

Coach should have realised he was mentally gone at that point and either calmed him down or pulled him to calm down. Problem was he was having an awesome game. But big decisions make big results.

On a side note how badly does this impact his dynasty trade value? I own him in multiple leagues but want to move on,

 

[Arodin]

Warning lights have been on for a while on this guy.

They started shining brighter when he ran down the tunnel a few minutes before this.

Coach should have realised he was mentally gone at that point and either calmed him down or pulled him to calm down. Problem was he was having an awesome game. But big decisions make big results.

On a side note how badly does this impact his dynasty trade value? I own him in multiple leagues but want to move on,

Likely hard to trade him right now with all the bad press and a suspension looming. Real world issues and important character concerns aside though, he posted a monster FF stat line in that game. And most FF fans care more about player FF output than the success of their actual team (Blake Bortles is a poster child for this).

I expect once the outrage dies down you could talk someone into fair value for him as a player likely to be great when/if on the field. Give him the same type of discount we give to skilled but oft-injured offensive performers.

 

[massraider]

Coach should have realised he was mentally gone at that point and either calmed him down or pulled him to calm down. Problem was he was having an awesome game. But big decisions make big results.

Yeah, should have benched his best LB. Don't know why he didn't realize this, I mean you realized it 5 days later, why didn't Lewis?

Burfict is dangerous, and the league should let him know he's looking at an 8-game suspension next time.

But he's also really good, and if the Bengals are going to keep signing dirtbags, and they clearly are, then you have to take the bad with the good. I don't believe it's a viable strategy, but the Bengals do, and who knows if their starting QB had been healthy? Maybe it never would been that close.

 

[scothawk]

Coach should have realised he was mentally gone at that point and either calmed him down or pulled him to calm down. Problem was he was having an awesome game. But big decisions make big results.

Yeah, should have benched his best LB. Don't know why he didn't realize this, I mean you realized it 5 days later, why didn't Lewis?

Burfict is dangerous, and the league should let him know he's looking at an 8-game suspension next time.

But he's also really good, and if the Bengals are going to keep signing dirtbags, and they clearly are, then you have to take the bad with the good. I don't believe it's a viable strategy, but the Bengals do, and who knows if their starting QB had been healthy? Maybe it never would been that close.

I questioned it at the time. Seriously, if you are a coach and your players over react like that, wouldn't you do something?

 

[Holy Schneikes]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision.

Don't you think this is relevant information that one should have?

I looked at several clips in slow motion and from the time the ball passed Brown's fingers until Burfict hit him it was less than one second to about a seoncd and a half depending on the slow motion clip.

Burfict literally had a fraction of a second to respond.

Let's put all of that aside for a second. I have a question that I legitimately do not know the answer to.

Assume the same sequence of events but that Brown caught the ball and Burfict hit him in the head with the shoulder. Is that an illegal or legal hit?

A second is a LONG time. I think you missed the part where he DID react by changing his course INTO Brown. If he had not reacted at all, he may not even have hit brown.

In your scenario I think the same rule applies. But if your point is that people would be far more understanding of it, you are probably right. That is because what he did was obviously designed to injure a player rather than prevent a completion since the completion was not even in question at that point. If the ball was still in the area it would still have been an illegal hit, but at least you could wonder about his motives.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision. I also know that Burfict was heading toward the endzone while the ball going over and past Brown in the air and he had time to come BACK UP FIELD slightly toward brown to lay the hit on him. If had just continued on his current trajectory he would have missed Brown entirely. He course corrected to hit the guy in the head.

This was AFTER the intentional knee to the Roethlisberger's shoulder after the sack. Can you explain away that video too? I suppose it was just momentum that drove his leg backwards and then forwards into the shoulder as he was laying on the ground?

Look there are plenty of illegal hits by players on all teams, some of which are called and some not. But Burfict is an animal, intentionally trying to hurt people after plays are over. This is NOT his first rodeo. Ask Maxx Williams, Greg Olsen, Torrey Smith, or Cam Newton.

Even in college the dude racked up a personal foul about every other game he played. But hey, those were all accidents too.

Waaah waaaah waaah... the Bengals don't just take our cheap shots quietly anymore.

 

[LittlePhatty]

The video clearly shows that Burfict starts his launch after he sees the ball pass through Brown's hands. Of course he knew Brown didn't have the ball, that's exactly why he goes for the cheap shot.

For anyone who says Burfict might have thought Brown caught the ball - do you honestly think his "play" on a ball-carrying Antonio Brown would be to run to the left of him and aim his shoulder at Brown's helmet? If so, that's really poor tackling technique and I'm not sure how he made it to the pros.

I can't stand Burfict or Adam Jones, but I do love a little bit of schadenfreude every once in a while. If those two players had shown even the tiniest bit of maturity and restraint then their team would probably still be in the playoffs. But they just couldn't help themselves. Pacman was on the radio this morning claiming that Antonio Brown was faking the injury, and that he should be given a "Grammy" for his performance. I don't know what supposedly faking a concussion has to do with music, but it was worth a laugh.

 

[Dizzy]

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

He had just enough time to adjust his actions and thrust his shoulder into Brown's head. You can clearly see that in the replay. He's even seen pleading his case to Marvin Lewis afterwards showing him how he struck with his shoulder. Seems to me that if he had time to make that adjustment, then he probably had enough time to avoid him.

Anyone that truly believes that hit was unintentional just watched their first football game on Saturday. This is his game, week in and week out.

I compared him to Jack Tatum in another thread, but looking back now that really is an insult to Jack Tatum.

 

[ImTheScientist]

My first football memory was Bengals vs Niners Super Bowl. Thought the Bengals had cool uniforms. Jeff Blake and Carl Pickens were cool.....but nothing else is really cool about them.

 

[Dizzy]

My first football memory was Bengals vs Niners Super Bowl. Thought the Bengals had cool uniforms. Jeff Blake and Carl Pickens were cool.....but nothing else is really cool about them.

What about Sam Wyche taking the mic and yelling at the fans for throwing snowballs? That was pretty cool.

 

[ImTheScientist]

My first football memory was Bengals vs Niners Super Bowl. Thought the Bengals had cool uniforms. Jeff Blake and Carl Pickens were cool.....but nothing else is really cool about them.

What about Sam Wyche taking the mic and yelling at the fans for throwing snowballs? That was pretty cool.

I enjoyed that get off my lawn moment/dig at Cleveland....so add that to the cool list.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tfLncD3pGM-- starting at 0:08.

At 0:10, both Brown and Lewis-Miller are off the ground, with the ball sailing just over Brown's outstretched hands. You also see Burfict coming in for the kill with one step.

At 0:11, you see another step from Burfict, just before he makes contact. This step, incidentally, is one that purposefully angled his body for a shot at Brown's head.

So there's two.

Now, from every other angle, you see that the ball was thrown way too high to be cleanly caught long before the ball reaches a point over Brown's hands. I have every reason to believe that a guy who has spent his life on a football field knows that the receiver isn't likely to make that catch well before the point the ball is actually passing over Brown's hands. Also have every reason to believe that in this time, Burfict had enough time to take about a half-step.

If you don't see an extra 0.5 steps, whatever -- this doesn't need to get to a level of "back, and to the left" (to paraphrase Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison) to see that Burfict had time and opportunity to ease up and/or angle away to avoid unnecessary roughness. Instead, he took that time to do exactly the opposite and lost the game for the Bengals.

 

[SIDA!]

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tfLncD3pGM-- starting at 0:08.

At 0:10, both Brown and Lewis-Miller are off the ground, with the ball sailing just over Brown's outstretched hands. You also see Burfict coming in for the kill with one step.

At 0:11, you see another step from Burfict, just before he makes contact. This step, incidentally, is one that purposefully angled his body for a shot at Brown's head.

So there's two.

Now, from every other angle, you see that the ball was thrown way too high to be cleanly caught long before the ball reaches a point over Brown's hands. I have every reason to believe that a guy who has spent his life on a football field knows that the receiver isn't likely to make that catch well before the point the ball is actually passing over Brown's hands. Also have every reason to believe that in this time, Burfict had enough time to take about a half-step.

If you don't see an extra 0.5 steps, whatever -- this doesn't need to get to a level of "back, and to the left" (to paraphrase Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison) to see that Burfict had time and opportunity to ease up and/or angle away to avoid unnecessary roughness. Instead, he took that time to do exactly the opposite and lost the game for the Bengals.

Are we watching the same video?

At the :10 mark...Burfict's left foot is on the ground. The ball has just passed Brown after deflecting off the tip of his fingers.

At the :11 mark the ball is still in the screen and Burfict's right foot is in mid-air.

At the very end of the :11 mark Burfict makes contact with the head of Brown while his left foot is in the air.

It is basically a step and a half that takes about 1 second on slow motion.

The funniest part about your post is that you say the ball was clearly thrown with the ball sailing over Brown's hands. And you say that anyone who has played football as long as Burfict knows that ball wasn't going to be caught.

How absurd. First...the ball actually touches the tips of both his hands. We see receivers making insane one hand grabs. Burfict's job isn't to assume the the ball isn't catchable. It is to make sure the receiver doesn't catch the ball.

 

[SIDA!]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision.

Don't you think this is relevant information that one should have?

I looked at several clips in slow motion and from the time the ball passed Brown's fingers until Burfict hit him it was less than one second to about a seoncd and a half depending on the slow motion clip.

Burfict literally had a fraction of a second to respond.

Let's put all of that aside for a second. I have a question that I legitimately do not know the answer to.

Assume the same sequence of events but that Brown caught the ball and Burfict hit him in the head with the shoulder. Is that an illegal or legal hit?

A second is a LONG time. I think you missed the part where he DID react by changing his course INTO Brown. If he had not reacted at all, he may not even have hit brown.

In your scenario I think the same rule applies. But if your point is that people would be far more understanding of it, you are probably right. That is because what he did was obviously designed to injure a player rather than prevent a completion since the completion was not even in question at that point. If the ball was still in the area it would still have been an illegal hit, but at least you could wonder about his motives.

Assume that Lewis-Miller is a step behind and Brown catches the ball there. Is Burfict supposed to be a matador and let the receiver go by him because he was too good and got there too soon?

This is ####### football. Or it used to be.

But I am probably a dinosaur.

There used to be a time when defensive players made offensive players pay a price. If you want to go over the middle and get hung out like that by your QB...you level the #### out of them. Then they get alligator arms.

It ain't tackle football anymore. It is more like stop and chase.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tfLncD3pGM-- starting at 0:08.

At 0:10, both Brown and Lewis-Miller are off the ground, with the ball sailing just over Brown's outstretched hands. You also see Burfict coming in for the kill with one step.

At 0:11, you see another step from Burfict, just before he makes contact. This step, incidentally, is one that purposefully angled his body for a shot at Brown's head.

So there's two.

Now, from every other angle, you see that the ball was thrown way too high to be cleanly caught long before the ball reaches a point over Brown's hands. I have every reason to believe that a guy who has spent his life on a football field knows that the receiver isn't likely to make that catch well before the point the ball is actually passing over Brown's hands. Also have every reason to believe that in this time, Burfict had enough time to take about a half-step.

If you don't see an extra 0.5 steps, whatever -- this doesn't need to get to a level of "back, and to the left" (to paraphrase Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison) to see that Burfict had time and opportunity to ease up and/or angle away to avoid unnecessary roughness. Instead, he took that time to do exactly the opposite and lost the game for the Bengals.

Are we watching the same video?

At the :10 mark...Burfict's left foot is on the ground. The ball has just passed Brown after deflecting off the tip of his fingers.

At the :11 mark the ball is still in the screen and Burfict's right foot is in mid-air.

At the very end of the :11 mark Burfict makes contact with the head of Brown while his left foot is in the air.

It is basically a step and a half that takes about 1 second on slow motion.

The funniest part about your post is that you say the ball was clearly thrown with the ball sailing over Brown's hands. And you say that anyone who has played football as long as Burfict knows that ball wasn't going to be caught.

How absurd. First...the ball actually touches the tips of both his hands. We see receivers making insane one hand grabs. Burfict's job isn't to assume the the ball isn't catchable. It is to make sure the receiver doesn't catch the ball.

Please show me a link where you see 2.5 steps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tfLncD3pGM-- starting at 0:08.

At 0:10, both Brown and Lewis-Miller are off the ground, with the ball sailing just over Brown's outstretched hands. You also see Burfict coming in for the kill with one step.

At 0:11, you see another step from Burfict, just before he makes contact. This step, incidentally, is one that purposefully angled his body for a shot at Brown's head.

So there's two.

Now, from every other angle, you see that the ball was thrown way too high to be cleanly caught long before the ball reaches a point over Brown's hands. I have every reason to believe that a guy who has spent his life on a football field knows that the receiver isn't likely to make that catch well before the point the ball is actually passing over Brown's hands. Also have every reason to believe that in this time, Burfict had enough time to take about a half-step.

If you don't see an extra 0.5 steps, whatever -- this doesn't need to get to a level of "back, and to the left" (to paraphrase Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison) to see that Burfict had time and opportunity to ease up and/or angle away to avoid unnecessary roughness. Instead, he took that time to do exactly the opposite and lost the game for the Bengals.

Are we watching the same video?

At the :10 mark...Burfict's left foot is on the ground. The ball has just passed Brown after deflecting off the tip of his fingers.

At the :11 mark the ball is still in the screen and Burfict's right foot is in mid-air.

At the very end of the :11 mark Burfict makes contact with the head of Brown while his left foot is in the air.

It is basically a step and a half that takes about 1 second on slow motion.

The funniest part about your post is that you say the ball was clearly thrown with the ball sailing over Brown's hands. And you say that anyone who has played football as long as Burfict knows that ball wasn't going to be caught.

How absurd. First...the ball actually touches the tips of both his hands. We see receivers making insane one hand grabs. Burfict's job isn't to assume the the ball isn't catchable. It is to make sure the receiver doesn't catch the ball.

No. It's not. Not sure what the ball still being in the screen as to do with anything, but Burfict is launching himself for contact using his right foot. If you need another angle, look at 0:19 of the same video.

But please, be my guest and go ahead and keep defending this play as sportsmanlike, or one that didn't deserve a penalty because Burfict was just doing his job by making sure the receiver doesn't catch the ball.

 

[massraider]

There used to be a time when defensive players made offensive players pay a price. If you want to go over the middle and get hung out like that by your QB...you level the #### out of them. Then they get alligator arms.

It ain't tackle football anymore. It is more like stop and chase.

There used to be a time when players lived in pain for the rest of their life because of injuries suffered playing football.

Oh, wait, that's right now.

Hey, I'm with you. I miss the era when defensive tackles took a free shot at the defenseless QB that they outweighed by 70 pounds, and when LBs and DBs made those WRs pay for attempting to catch the ball by lining him up, and cleaning his clock as the ball sailed 5 yards over his head. Cheap shots! The good ol' days, am I right. It just AIN'T the same.

We'd probably still have real football, if it weren't for all these complaining widows, burying their husbands at the age of 45.

Jack Lambert was making the same complaint as you 40 years ago, so really,when did real football stop being played?

 

[Godsbrother]

There used to be a time when defensive players made offensive players pay a price. If you want to go over the middle and get hung out like that by your QB...you level the #### out of them. Then they get alligator arms.

It ain't tackle football anymore. It is more like stop and chase.

There used to be a time when players lived in pain for the rest of their life because of injuries suffered playing football.

Oh, wait, that's right now.

Hey, I'm with you. I miss the era when defensive tackles took a free shot at the defenseless QB that they outweighed by 70 pounds, and when LBs and DBs made those WRs pay for attempting to catch the ball by lining him up, and cleaning his clock as the ball sailed 5 yards over his head. Cheap shots! The good ol' days, am I right. It just AIN'T the same.

We'd probably still have real football, if it weren't for all these complaining widows, burying their husbands at the age of 45.

Jack Lambert was making the same complaint as you 40 years ago, so really,when did real football stop being played?

Yep. Years ago this play would not have been flagged. I remember making the same arguments SIDA! is making for James Harrison when he was getting fined and suspended for very similar hits. The bottom line is this is the way the game is today -- it really doesn't matter if he had time to adjust or not. If you hit a defenseless receiver in the shoulder/head area you are going to get flagged.

You either adjust your game or you continue to get penalized, fined and possibly suspended (if you are a repeat offender). So far Burfict hasn't adjusted.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

HS - what was the elapsed time between when the ball passed Brown and when Burfict hit him?
Do you know?

No, I don't. Hard to tell with slow mo gifs. But I know the the ball was completely out of the frame by the time Burfict hits him, and it went directly across Burfict's field of vision.

Don't you think this is relevant information that one should have?

I looked at several clips in slow motion and from the time the ball passed Brown's fingers until Burfict hit him it was less than one second to about a seoncd and a half depending on the slow motion clip.

Burfict literally had a fraction of a second to respond.

Let's put all of that aside for a second. I have a question that I legitimately do not know the answer to.

Assume the same sequence of events but that Brown caught the ball and Burfict hit him in the head with the shoulder. Is that an illegal or legal hit?

A second is a LONG time. I think you missed the part where he DID react by changing his course INTO Brown. If he had not reacted at all, he may not even have hit brown.

In your scenario I think the same rule applies. But if your point is that people would be far more understanding of it, you are probably right. That is because what he did was obviously designed to injure a player rather than prevent a completion since the completion was not even in question at that point. If the ball was still in the area it would still have been an illegal hit, but at least you could wonder about his motives.

Assume that Lewis-Miller is a step behind and Brown catches the ball there. Is Burfict supposed to be a matador and let the receiver go by him because he was too good and got there too soon?

This is ####### football. Or it used to be.

But I am probably a dinosaur.

There used to be a time when defensive players made offensive players pay a price. If you want to go over the middle and get hung out like that by your QB...you level the #### out of them. Then they get alligator arms.

It ain't tackle football anymore. It is more like stop and chase.

You are right about some of this. "Making people pay" is still there, but it now has limits it didn't before. Times have changed. For the better according to most, but it will never be for everyone.

But the "tackle" football comment is pretty off-base it seems to me. Hitting to injure and tackling aren't the same thing. You have to to stop a guy and get him to the ground, that hasn't changed. By definition, tackling involves grabbing them and throwing them to the ground. It has nothing to do with leveling your head or shoulder at them intending to cause such devastation they can't function. What I assume to be your vision of a tackle is really further away from "real" tackling compared to where the game is now.

The bottom line is that yes, the game is "softer" than it was a decade ago. But it is still a brutal but entertaining sport. Many argue (like myself) it would be MORE entertaining without the kinds of hits that Burfict put on Brown. For one, one of the best receivers in the game would be playing this week if not for Burfict's hit. He's fun to watch - and not just for Steeler fans.

And the other simple fact is that the game couldn't realistically continue the way it had been going. As it is, guys are already taking years off of their lives. They are paid handsomely and they know (or should know) the risks, but there is absolutely no reason the league can't or shouldn't minimize the damage where possible. As much as we like to pretend, we aren't Romans and these are not gladiators, nor should they be in my opinion. There is and always will be plenty of violence for you to enjoy. Look at the injury lists every week. But there are limits, and quite reasonable ones. I don't want to see a dude have his neck broken on the field for my entertainment.

 

[SIDA!]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

 

[massraider]

That's correct. They just changed the rule last spring.


The rule used to be that the if the QB made a bad pass the entire secondary was allowed to beat a WR of their choice with aluminum baseball bats.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Wondering... has there been any outrage yet about the tape of Jeremy Hill blatantly taunting William Gay, doing his celebtration dance right in front of him while pointing after AJ Green's touchdown?

You know, a personal foul that could've/should've been called that would've made the 2 point conversion attempt virtually impossible and the extra point almost 50 yards?

Far less than that is regularly flagged as taunting, wondering why there's isn't an outcry in Cincinnati about that one.

 

[Chaka]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

Who cares? That didn't happen. What did happen was a cheap shot by Burfict that was obvious and undeniable.

 

[bshipper]

First, let me say, I am a Bengals fan, but trying to look objectively at this.

Under today's rules, no doubt, 100%, this is a penalty.

If you watch the video and try to imagine faceless, nameless players without the jerseys to eliminate bias, here is what I see.

I think the best angle starts at the 0:16 mark of the video and the ball has just gone through the WRs hands while he is at the peak height of his jump.

At the 0:19 second mark, the LB enters the screen on the left at the same time that the WR lands on the ground. The key is to look at the positioning of the players at this point. The LB is bent at the waist with his shoulder level around the WR waist area as he is landing, and looks to be within arms reach of him (say 3 feet). The WRs momentum, and possibly natural instinct, causes his knees to buckle and he lowers his head right before impact (still at the 0:19 mark of the video, also at the 0:32 mark from the back angle). The LBs shoulder level does not change, still at the original waist level of the WR, which is now the head level due to the WR reaction upon landing. Contact occurs at the very start of the 0:20 mark and the LBs momentum continues through the hit with his shoulders at the same level as when he started. There was no upward motion or launch into the WR.

I truly believe it is player reputation alone that is causing people to say this was intentional, and maybe that is deserved. But if you strip away who was involved and look at the video alone, this has to be the exact way you would teach a LB to hit a WR in the last seconds of a playoff game. His only job is to assume the catch is made and he must dislodge the ball, risking the potential penalty under today's rule. The LB cannot allow the WR to make the catch and continue the run. If he wanted to, I truly believe he could have killed Brown (literally) on this play had he launched upward (similar to Terence Garvin's hit on Huber a few years ago, by the way), but he didn't. Now, if he is that good of an actor to make it look like he wasn't trying to hurt Brown but really wanted to, then maybe he deserves the Academy award, but I don't think Burfict could pull that off.

Had the Steelers kicked a 49 yard FG to win the game, I would have no problem with the end of the game, but we won't talk about what happened next here. What I think is incredibly ironic is, had the fumble not happened, they would be preparing Burfict's and Jones' statues for out front of PBS.

 

[davearm]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

All Burfict has to do in that situation is get lower and hit Brown below the head/neck area.

Alternatively, he can let him land, turn and chase him.

Alternatively, he can hit him high the way he did and get flagged.

He's got several options. And the option set is the same regardless of whether the catch is made (tho it'd be a bit odd to select the chase option if the catch isn't made).

 

[SIDA!]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

Who cares? That didn't happen. What did happen was a cheap shot by Burfict that was obvious and undeniable.

I am of the opinion that a player shouldn't have to wait to definitively discern whether or not a player who is quicker than lightning actually caught a ball and within a split second determine whether or not he can or can't hit him.

If Brown catches that ball...is sounds like you guys want Burfict to make an arm tackle. Otherwise..what is his option...to let Brown go screaming by like Tom Cruise buzzing the tower?

 

[SIDA!]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

All Burfict has to do in that situation is get lower and hit Brown below the head/neck area.

Alternatively, he can let him land, turn and chase him.

Alternatively, he can hit him high the way he did and get flagged.

He's got several options. And the option set is the same regardless of whether the catch is made (tho it'd be a bit odd to select the chase option if the catch isn't made).

All he has to do is get lower? He was basically bent at the wait and his chest was nearly parallel to the turf.

Maybe he should have dropped to his knees and offered up his services.

 

[davearm]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

All Burfict has to do in that situation is get lower and hit Brown below the head/neck area.

Alternatively, he can let him land, turn and chase him.

Alternatively, he can hit him high the way he did and get flagged.

He's got several options. And the option set is the same regardless of whether the catch is made (tho it'd be a bit odd to select the chase option if the catch isn't made).

All he has to do is get lower? He was basically bent at the wait and his chest was nearly parallel to the turf.

Maybe he should have dropped to his knees and offered up his services.

If you want to make the case that Burfict didn't have any capacity to hit Brown legally, then go for it. Considering the speeds and angles, you could be right.

That leaves him with the other two options.

 

[CalBear]

But I am probably a dinosaur.

There used to be a time when defensive players made offensive players pay a price. If you want to go over the middle and get hung out like that by your QB...you level the #### out of them.

I can think of other words for someone who enjoys seeing one of the best players in the league get knocked unconscious on a collision that had nothing to do with football.

 

[daveR]

First, let me say, I am a Bengals fan, but trying to look objectively at this.

Under today's rules, no doubt, 100%, this is a penalty.

If you watch the video and try to imagine faceless, nameless players without the jerseys to eliminate bias, here is what I see.

I think the best angle starts at the 0:16 mark of the video and the ball has just gone through the WRs hands while he is at the peak height of his jump.

At the 0:19 second mark, the LB enters the screen on the left at the same time that the WR lands on the ground. The key is to look at the positioning of the players at this point. The LB is bent at the waist with his shoulder level around the WR waist area as he is landing, and looks to be within arms reach of him (say 3 feet). The WRs momentum, and possibly natural instinct, causes his knees to buckle and he lowers his head right before impact (still at the 0:19 mark of the video, also at the 0:32 mark from the back angle). The LBs shoulder level does not change, still at the original waist level of the WR, which is now the head level due to the WR reaction upon landing. Contact occurs at the very start of the 0:20 mark and the LBs momentum continues through the hit with his shoulders at the same level as when he started. There was no upward motion or launch into the WR.

I truly believe it is player reputation alone that is causing people to say this was intentional, and maybe that is deserved. But if you strip away who was involved and look at the video alone, this has to be the exact way you would teach a LB to hit a WR in the last seconds of a playoff game. His only job is to assume the catch is made and he must dislodge the ball, risking the potential penalty under today's rule. The LB cannot allow the WR to make the catch and continue the run. If he wanted to, I truly believe he could have killed Brown (literally) on this play had he launched upward (similar to Terence Garvin's hit on Huber a few years ago, by the way), but he didn't. Now, if he is that good of an actor to make it look like he wasn't trying to hurt Brown but really wanted to, then maybe he deserves the Academy award, but I don't think Burfict could pull that off.

Had the Steelers kicked a 49 yard FG to win the game, I would have no problem with the end of the game, but we won't talk about what happened next here. What I think is incredibly ironic is, had the fumble not happened, they would be preparing Burfict's and Jones' statues for out front of PBS.

To me, having played football at amateur levels only, this was a cheap shot. It was unnecessary. When the ball is not caught, you avoid the WR. He had time -- a couple steps. Some people play with the attitude that you make every hit you think you can get away with. This was one of those cases.

 

[Chaka]

Just want to make clear.

If Brown catches that ball Burfict is supposed to hit the brakes wait til the guy is not defenseless (which would have been a yard past Burfict at near full speed) turned around and chased after Brown.

That is the rule now, right?

Who cares? That didn't happen. What did happen was a cheap shot by Burfict that was obvious and undeniable.

I am of the opinion that a player shouldn't have to wait to definitively discern whether or not a player who is quicker than lightning actually caught a ball and within a split second determine whether or not he can or can't hit him.

If Brown catches that ball...is sounds like you guys want Burfict to make an arm tackle. Otherwise..what is his option...to let Brown go screaming by like Tom Cruise buzzing the tower?

That's nice but again that isn't what happened. He had opportunity but didn't take it.

As far as options, how about solid fundamental tackling instead of a shoulder to the head?

 

[spider321]

I don't get it, why blame this on a fictional character from a book? You could have at least gone with an interesting one. Like Harry Potter. "Harry Potter Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again". Why do you hate wizards?

Question: You know how you can tell someone is an atheist?

Answer: They tell you every 5 minutes.

You don't believe in God, Conn? Congratulations!!! ...but that does not give you the right to mock others' beliefs.

Go prove yourself right, kid. Play in traffic.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I don't get it, why blame this on a fictional character from a book? You could have at least gone with an interesting one. Like Harry Potter. "Harry Potter Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again". Why do you hate wizards?

Question: You know how you can tell someone is an atheist?Answer: They tell you every 5 minutes.

You don't believe in God, Conn? Congratulations!!! ...but that does not give you the right to mock others' beliefs.

Go prove yourself right, kid. Play in traffic.

I'm sorry that you were born with an underdeveloped sense of humor

 

[Chaka]

I don't get it, why blame this on a fictional character from a book? You could have at least gone with an interesting one. Like Harry Potter. "Harry Potter Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again". Why do you hate wizards?

Question: You know how you can tell someone is an atheist?

Answer: They tell you every 5 minutes.

You don't believe in God, Conn? Congratulations!!! ...but that does not give you the right to mock others' beliefs.

Go prove yourself right, kid. Play in traffic.

Is it against the law to mock the beliefs of others? I must have missed the memo.

Try this one on for size: You can't control what people say or do but you can control your response to what they say or do.

You should take that one out for a test drive.

 

[spider321]

I don't get it, why blame this on a fictional character from a book? You could have at least gone with an interesting one. Like Harry Potter. "Harry Potter Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again". Why do you hate wizards?

Question: You know how you can tell someone is an atheist?

Answer: They tell you every 5 minutes.

You don't believe in God, Conn? Congratulations!!! ...but that does not give you the right to mock others' beliefs.

Go prove yourself right, kid. Play in traffic.

Is it against the law to mock the beliefs of others? I must have missed the memo.

Try this one on for size: You can't control what people say or do but you can control your response to what they say or do.

You should take that one out for a test drive.

Yes, I did use the word "right". I should have said it does not make it appropriate to mock the religious beliefs of others.

As for my response, I cannot reach through the internet to choke him, so I took the best option available.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

I don't get it, why blame this on a fictional character from a book? You could have at least gone with an interesting one. Like Harry Potter. "Harry Potter Squatted and Took a Dump on the Bengals...Again". Why do you hate wizards?

Question: You know how you can tell someone is an atheist?

Answer: They tell you every 5 minutes.

You don't believe in God, Conn? Congratulations!!! ...but that does not give you the right to mock others' beliefs.

Go prove yourself right, kid. Play in traffic.

Wow this thread just took a bizarre and drastic turn.

Let me get this straight, you're upset that he says he doesn't believe in god, and if you're super-sensitive, could take it as him mocking your beliefs.

You take umbrage and tell him to go play in traffic (intimating that he severely injure or kill himself)

This reaction seems odd and slightly ironic to me based on the start of this argument.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The thing that baffles me is that I expected to see Bengals fans in a lather after that game calling for Burfict's and Jones' heads. Dalton was possibly coming back next week against a "gettable" New England team, the Chiefs would have been rolling into Denver against the corpse of Peyton Manning. The Bengals had a REAL chance of hosting an AFCC with a legit shot at their first Super Bowl appearance in decades. If I'm a Bengals fan, I want those two pilloried in the town square.

Now, maybe the fans that do feel this way aren't talking about it, but pretty much everything I've seen in these threads from the Cincy faithful is defending these guys, trying to spin blame on Joey Porter, etc. Bewildering.

 

[JuniorNB]

Antonio Brown ruled out for this week's playoff game. We should be seeing Pacman's apology any time now.