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Good article on the Chargers (1 Viewer)

Ozymandias

Footballguy
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-a...o&type=lgns

SAN DIEGO – The picture sat behind a desk, near a giant glass wall of an office that overlooked a practice field. A man donning slicked silver hair and a Hawaiian shirt turned to the photo and studied it. It was the simplest of pictures, really. Just two men sitting in a golf cart. On one side, former San Diego Chargers general manager John Butler was captured slumping over the wheel of the cart. And at his right side in the photo, A.J. Smith – the protégé and successor to Butler – stared into the distance through glasses seemingly borrowed from a 1950s chemistry professor.

"We spent all of our careers in golf carts," he said, chuckling and shaking his head. "A lot of discussions and decisions were made in that thing."

Smith paused.

"I think John would be proud."

There's a hint of vulnerability in the statement, which is unique. Of all the things Smith is prone to being called in NFL circles – shrewd, blunt, egotistical, cheap, stubborn and even brilliant – vulnerable is rarely an adjective that comes up. But Butler is his soft spot. As well he should be.

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"I miss him," Smith said.

It's been a few years since that picture was taken. At the time, Butler was San Diego's general manager and Smith was the team's director of pro personnel. Those were their official titles, anyway. In spirit, they were little more than two kids holed up in a tree house, spending their days scheming to rebuild the Chargers. Five years after they put the plan in motion together, Smith is fine-tuning it on his own, having watched Butler succumb to cancer in April of 2003.

But there is rarely a day that passes when Smith doesn't think about his mentor or what he'd think of all this. Smith shrugs off the sudden celebration of his team, but his sly smile suggests pleasure at how the Chargers, once the dregs of the NFL, have become the league's Super Bowl favorite. And how the plan he and Butler hatched to build a sustained contender, like the Bills of the early- to mid-1990s, has come to fruition. And of course, how LaDainian Tomlinson – once considered the wrong end of a trade that gift-wrapped Michael Vick for the Falcons – has become one of the best running backs in league history.

"The dream was to try to build a championship team in San Diego," Smith said. "He's not around, so it kind of got passed on to me. And I'm doing the best I can."

PASSING OF THE TORCH

Even now, Smith vividly remembers that dreadful phone call in the spring of 2003. His friend of 21 years was in the final throes of a battle with lung cancer. Smith had lost his father to it in 1972, so he knew what to expect. But it hardly cushioned the experience of once again watching it slowly rob him of a career confidant, this time a man who he'd met in 1982 while working for the USFL's Chicago Blitz.

Butler, on the other hand, remained businesslike even though the outlook had become bleak. In his own way, he began trying to prepare A.J. for what he hoped would be a seamless succession if he didn't beat the cancer. Like every good general manager, Butler forced himself to think about what would happen to his team tomorrow even as the illness took hold over time, and his daily discussions with his protégé whittled from hours to mere minutes. Then, one day in February, Butler was forced to check into the hospital for what he knew might be the last time.

Not long after, he called for Smith. He wanted to talk. Alone.

The topic was the one Smith had avoided for months – transition. Butler wanted to ready Smith to take the team over. And yet, every time he would bring it up, Smith would brush the talk off.

"We'll cross that bridge when we get to it," Smith said.

Finally, in the private meeting that Butler requested in the hospital, he grasped his friend by the arm, to command his attention.

"We're at the bridge," he said.

It's an important moment, because what happened next has a lot to do with where the Chargers are now. Butler told Smith that, more than likely, this was going to be his team. And that he was going to have to shape it in his vision. No more nights burning the midnight oil together. No more wondering by Smith what it would be like if he was off running his own team. This would be his. And it would be up to him to use everything he'd gleaned from so many great minds over the years – not only Butler, but guys like former Buffalo coach and current Bills GM Marv Levy, former Bills GM Bill Polian (now of the Indianapolis Colts) and football icon George Allen.

"You know, A.J. doesn't show a lot, but I think he did take that [talk] hard," Levy said.

Added Polian, "It was very emotional. A.J. was the closest guy to John. They'd been together for a long time."

BUILDING BLOCKS

Though Smith is responsible for 46 of the 53 players on the active roster, some of Butler's best decisions remain: Tomlinson, linebacker Donnie Edwards and cornerback Quentin Jammer.

"John and I spent five days sitting in the stands at the Senior Bowl in 2001," Smith remembered. "We were 1-15 [the season before] and John had just been hired as the GM and he had brought me over from Buffalo. It was a total rebuilding process going on. And we were going to build it brick by brick. And the first brick we saw at that Senior Bowl was LaDainian Tomlinson."

At the time, they thought of Tomlinson as their Thurman Thomas. That he's become so much more and negated all the criticism for passing on Vick is simply another testament to the vision that helped turn around the Chargers.

But in a way, that's where Smith has distinguished himself from Butler. Because it's been the seeds planted around Tomlinson – and Smith's uncanny ability to cull the right talent at the right time – that has delivered San Diego from underneath a black cloud that nearly devoured the franchise in 2004.

Keeping in mind that the quarterback position is center of the NFL universe, no team in league history has pulled off what the Chargers did in a five-year span. Consider that San Diego rebounded from parting ways with a former first-rounder (Ryan Leaf), passing on one perceived all-world quarterback (Vick), traded away a second "once-in-a-decade" quarterback (Eli Manning), and then let a Pro Bowler leave via free agency (Drew Brees). And yet, the Chargers lived – and thrived – to tell about it.

"I liken it to a quote I used to tell our players from Martin Luther King," Levy said. "It was something like 'You do some things because it's good politics. You do some things because it's the popular thing to do. You do some things because it's the right thing to do. And if No. 1 and No. 2 ever conflict with No. 3, then you just do the right thing.' That's what you have to do in this job. No matter what, some of the decisions you make aren't going to be popular."

EVERLASTING PAIN

The final decisions regarding Manning and Brees certainly weren't popular at the time. The Manning fiasco in particular has left Smith with a lasting scar. One he says has faded over time, but that "will always be there."

"Less and less and less? Yes," Smith said. "Less now than then? Yes. But it is always there. It's etched in history."

Despite the fact that it appears he fleeced the New York Giants in the deal for Manning, it doesn't take much to get Smith rolling downhill on the subject. While the Giants got the player general manager Ernie Accorsi wanted as the centerpiece of his franchise, San Diego got a treasure trove in return. Specifically, Philip Rivers and three draft picks that became a dominant linebacker (Shawne Merriman), a franchise kicker (Nate Kaeding) and a veteran who started and played left tackle at a near Pro Bowl level for two seasons (Roman Oben).

So why the friction almost three years later? Not surprisingly, it's something that has its roots in Smith taking over for Butler. At the time that the 2004 NFL draft was rounding into form, Eli Manning and his father, Archie, indicated the Ole Miss star had no interest in playing for San Diego. Not only did the family not want any part of San Diego as a franchise, Smith walked away feeling like Archie Manning and his entire clan of NFL blue-bloods had taken a shot at his reputation. And if there was one thing Smith learned from his father – a hard-living travel engineer for a trucking company – it was to never let someone trample on your name or hard work.

"Archie Manning never said it publicly, but my information was that it was because I was a scout and that I was incapable of even handling anything as a general manager and so forth," Smith said. "And that was amongst other things. [Archie's opinion was] the players were terrible and it was the worst team in the National Football League and it would probably remain so."

Smith found the situation embarrassing, but instead of unraveling he used the situation as motivation.

Listening to the breakdown now, it's no shock what Smith did next. He analyzed what was going on, determined that he wasn't going to be held hostage, and then called his staff together at 8 a.m. one morning and told them they were drafting Manning no matter what the kid wanted. And as Smith expected, the second Manning was off the board, the Giants were panicking, and offering a boatload in a trade.

What nobody knew then: Smith actually had fallen in love with Rivers, who had been reared in one-time N.C. State offensive coordinator Norm Chow's pro-style offense, and had the overt leadership abilities that Manning seemed to lack. In fact, Smith liked Rivers more than the third quarterback taken in that draft – some guy named Ben Roethlisberger. Since choosing Manning and dealing him, the Chargers are 32-13, albeit thanks in large part to the fortunate rebirth by Brees, who allowed Rivers to eventually ease into his current role.

"A.J. did exactly the right thing," Polian said. "That's the toughest situation you can have, and he did exactly the right thing for his team, and his team is prospering because of it."

PIECES IN PLACE

Not only prospering, but thriving. The Chargers have arguably the deepest team in the NFL, in large part because of drafts that have been more boom than bust. Indeed, some of the talent fell into Smith's lap. Like tight end Antonio Gates, who was invited to work out by 19 NFL teams after his college basketball career ended at Kent State. In what was a fortunate stroke for the Chargers, Gates chose to work out with them first, and that was all she wrote.

As for the rest of the roster, the positive results have been a little more scientific. Simply put, Smith has been a master at culling top-tier talent. There have been the occasional top-notch trades (wide receiver Keenan McCardell) or free agent signings (safety Marlon McCree). And drafts that have boomed on both first-round gambles (defensive lineman Luis Castillo and cornerback Antonio Cromartie) and middle-round scores (running back Michael Turner, punter Mike Scifres, and linebackers Matt Wilhelm and Shaun Phillips). Add that to striking it rich on the traditional high draft picks (Rivers and Merriman), and Smith looks like one of the league's best talent evaluators. Even his perceived misses have brought dividends: from the aforementioned Manning ordeal to letting Brees go in free agency (which should provide a compensatory third-round pick from the NFL in the upcoming draft).

"We're deep all over the place," said Gates. "You have to give [A.J.] credit for that. Just look at the defense. It seems like every time someone has gone down this year, there has been someone right there to step in and pick it up. People didn't think we could go 4-0 when Shawne was suspended. But we had guys slide right in and we didn't miss a beat."

As for how the story ends, who knows? The Chargers, at 11-2, are closing in on the No. 1 seed and home-field advantage throughout the AFC playoffs, but they've had a couple of bumps along the way.

His breakdowns with Marty Schottenheimer led to a pow-wow with ownership last offseason, in which both were essentially told to shut their yaps. Then there has been the litany of police-related incidents with players over the last 12 months, a problem Smith says is going to be addressed with some undisclosed roster moves this offseason (Steve Foley and Terrence Kiel are likely on their way out). And he's had some bumpy contract issues with plenty of players, including Edwards, Gates, Brees and others – issues that have given Smith somewhat of a cheapskate label in the agent community.

And yet, here he sits, arguably at the top of his profession, carrying and flourishing with the plan and values that he and John Butler put into place years ago. The crowning achievement of a championship is still far off. After being in Buffalo and seeing teams come brutally close and fall short, he knows that much. So every day, the best emotion Smith can muster is cautious optimism, and the feeling that the mentor in that cherished photograph would be proud of how far he's come.

Charles Robinson

 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J

 
I don't dislike Peyton, just Archie & Eli. I don't think that is very common, but I don't think Peyton had any issues like the whole Eli fiasco.

 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
Probably has to do with the fact they havent won a playoff game in 12 years
 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
Probably has to do with the fact they havent won a playoff game in 12 years
But that last win was an AFC Championship sending them to the Super Bowl.I'm interested though. What teams have a better record than 32-13 over the last three years?

J

 
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The Dynasty of the New England Patriots are just one game better at 33-12 over the last three years of regular season.

Are people confusing "doormat" with "losing in the playoffs"?

J

 
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I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
They revived themselves from the doormat three years ago.In three years they have gone from doormat to potential dynasty, as nearly every starter and key backup are signed through at least 2011. (The only exceptions are Kris Dielman, Shaun Phillips, Matt Wilhelm, Michael Turner, Lorenzo Neal [2007], Donnie Edwards, Randall Godfrey, Keenan McCardell [2007], Mike Goff [2009], and Drayton Florence. I'd expect Dielman and Phillips to be re-signed this year, and possibly Florence.)

(If that sounds like a long list, consider all the guys that are locked up through at least 2011 -- LaDainian Tomlinson, Philip Rivers, Antonio Gates, Shawne Merriman, Jamal Williams, Luis Castillo, Marcus McNeill, Quentin Jammer, Antonio Cromartie, Nate Kaeding, Mike Scifres, Nick Hardwick, Shane Olivea, Vincent Jackson, Eric Parker, Igor Olshansky, Marlon McCree, Stephen Cooper . . .)

 
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The Dynasty of the New England Patriots are just one game better at 33-12 over the last three years of regular season.Are people confusing "doormat" with "losing in the playoffs"?J
I think you are confusing "doormat" meaning the top player in the draft thinks your team is so bad that he refuses to play for it to mean having a bad record the past three years.
 
Great article. There's no question the Chargers have fleeced not one but two teams on huge draft day trades in recent years. Anyone who would rather have Vick than Tomlinson is either a VickHomer or deluded.

With regard to Brees, the compensatory pick system is a good one in the NFL, but if Brees goes on to win the MVP award or even finishes second, it would be a joke if all the Chargers got in return was a third-round pick. They shouldn't be punished just because the QB they had waiting in the wings turned out to be pretty damn good too.

 
With regard to Brees, the compensatory pick system is a good one in the NFL, but if Brees goes on to win the MVP award or even finishes second, it would be a joke if all the Chargers got in return was a third-round pick. They shouldn't be punished just because the QB they had waiting in the wings turned out to be pretty damn good too.
I actually think the Chargers would be overcompensated to receive a third-round pick, but I'll take it. I don't think teams should get compensatory picks for failing to re-sign their players. They drafted Brees and got his exclusive rights for the duration of his initial contract. They voluntarily chose not to meet his contract demands after that, so why should they be compensated? Like I said, though, as a Charger fan I'll take it.
 
With regard to Brees, the compensatory pick system is a good one in the NFL, but if Brees goes on to win the MVP award or even finishes second, it would be a joke if all the Chargers got in return was a third-round pick. They shouldn't be punished just because the QB they had waiting in the wings turned out to be pretty damn good too.
I actually think the Chargers would be overcompensated to receive a third-round pick, but I'll take it. I don't think teams should get compensatory picks for failing to re-sign their players. They drafted Brees and got his exclusive rights for the duration of his initial contract. They voluntarily chose not to meet his contract demands after that, so why should they be compensated? Like I said, though, as a Charger fan I'll take it.
I wouldn't consider it failing to re-sign their own players, though. It's not like they were pinching pennies and playing cheap. They made a personnel decision, one bolstered by their belief in Rivers as the starter - which has proven to be justified. I just think that if the system is awarding picks based on the production of the player with his new team (which is how it works) then a third rounder for Brees is a joke. He's proven to be worth at least a first but given how that's probably too much for them to take they should at least get a pick at the end of the second round.
 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
They revived themselves from the doormat three years ago.In three years they have gone from doormat to potential dynasty
dammit Maurile, you know better than to use the "d" word at this point. Take it back.

 
The Dynasty of the New England Patriots are just one game better at 33-12 over the last three years of regular season.Are people confusing "doormat" with "losing in the playoffs"?J
I think you are confusing "doormat" meaning the top player in the draft thinks your team is so bad that he refuses to play for it to mean having a bad record the past three years.
No. I never said doormat. The article did. Over the last three years, this team has been absolutely dominant during the regular season.J
 
The Dynasty of the New England Patriots are just one game better at 33-12 over the last three years of regular season.

Are people confusing "doormat" with "losing in the playoffs"?

J
No, they're equating doormat to years of no playoffs, getting demolished in their one super bowl appearance, getting the snot beat out of them by the other teams in the division year in, year out for about 20 years (with the brief super bowl oasis in 1994, and a one and outs playoff appearance in 1992 and 1995). Then in 2004 after making the playoffs for the 1st time in 10 years they're 1 and done in what was a real fiasco of a game for them. They had their worst ever season in 2000 at 1-15. They were 4-12 in 2003.Since 1982 they've made the playoffs 4 times (5 if you include this season), gotten out of the 1st round only once.

Since 1982 they've had a winning record 7 times, including this current season. They've had a winning record 11 times since the merger in 1970, that's 11 winning records in 37 years. They've been to the playoffs 8 times and made it out of the 1st round 5 times in that same span. Oh, and ZERO NFL championships obviously. That's an eternity, three years is nothing.

In this poll about 45% of the people who answered prior to Sunday (when the Chargers clinched) said they wouldn't even make the playoffs this year.

Is that doormat enough for you?

 
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The Dynasty of the New England Patriots are just one game better at 33-12 over the last three years of regular season.Are people confusing "doormat" with "losing in the playoffs"?J
I think you are confusing "doormat" meaning the top player in the draft thinks your team is so bad that he refuses to play for it to mean having a bad record the past three years.
No. I never said doormat. The article did. Over the last three years, this team has been absolutely dominant during the regular season.J
In fairness Joe, the Chargers were one of the NFL's "joke" franchises 3 years ago, so much so that elite players were refusing to come here if drafted, despite the allure of the San Diego lifestyle.The transformation from that perception to what many are calling the deepest and most talented team in the NFL, while also being the youngest, is quite an accomplishment.
 
In three years they have gone from doormat to potential dynasty, as nearly every starter and key backup are signed through at least 2011.
Thanks MT.That's pretty much how I see it. With added caveat that they were a Super Bowl team in 94. They went from AFC Champs to struggling for 9 years with 5 of those years below .500. And then hit 12-4 3 years ago and have been smoking teams since then.I guess I'm just hearing Charger fans talk as if they were suffering Cubs fans or something and didn't get it. This was a Super Bowl team 12 years ago. Struggled for 9, then has been great the last three years. I'd be more than happy with that as a fan.J
 
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I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
It has more to do with the 20 year stretch pre-dating the turnaround. They were simply awful during that stretch with the lone exception of that Super Bowl appearance, but that had more to do with a modestly talented team getting white hot than it did anything that they'd really built.
 
Great story and yeah.... Makes me root for the Chargers and against the Mannings and that BS they pulled. Jokes on them.

 
Great story and yeah.... Makes me root for the Chargers and against the Mannings and that BS they pulled. Jokes on them.
Hi Reaper. Do you mean jokes on New York? That would be accurate I think. They gave up a lot.I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
 
Joe,

The doormat that they are referring was 3 years ago (before the changes).

In 2000, they were 1-15

In 2001, they were 5-11

In 2002, they were 8-8

In 2003, they were 4-12

Combined 19-46.

Yes they were doormats and nobody wanted to come here. Since then they have been as dominant as anybody (hence the article)

 
Makes you despise the Manning aristocracy even more....
I dunno. Eli let his father make a business decision for him and is paying for it now. Comes off as kind of weak just playing yes-man to dear old dad(who knows a lot about winning franchises?) but I don't dislike Eli or even Archie for the decision. Couldn't have worked out better for SD in any case so every SD fan should be sending Archie Manning an Xmas card if anything. Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
 
Joe, The doormat that they are referring was 3 years ago (before the changes).In 2000, they were 1-15In 2001, they were 5-11In 2002, they were 8-8In 2003, they were 4-12Combined 19-46.Yes they were doormats and nobody wanted to come here. Since then they have been as dominant as anybody (hence the article)
For sure. That was a tough 9 year stretch after the Super Bowl. But it did have 3 years of .500 and 1 winning season. I guess I'm just saying I thought the Chargers turned it around 3 years ago and it seems interesting that it's news now. Good for them though. I think lots of fans would take their last 12 years. And definitely the last three (and more to come)J
 
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Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
 
I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
Not sure which Manning you are talking about but I think if on-field success was the rationale for avoiding SD then they should be unhappy because in the present and near future Eli would have a greater opportunity for on-field success in SD when compared to the situation in NY.
 
I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
Not sure which Manning you are talking about but I think if on-field success was the rationale for avoiding SD then they should be unhappy because in the present and near future Eli would have a greater opportunity for on-field success in SD when compared to the situation in NY.
Eli Manning. I'd say he's totally fine with playing for the Giants. J
 
Good article. Us fantasy footballers are playing General Manager every year so it’s certainly interesting to read about a real GM who’s been making all the right moves the last four years to turn a bad team into a Super Bowl contender. It's an endless diet of rehashed controversies of the week (i.e. T.O.) on TV and sports talk radio while the patient work and planning of several years by a GM goes ignored.

 
I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
Not sure which Manning you are talking about but I think if on-field success was the rationale for avoiding SD then they should be unhappy because in the present and near future Eli would have a greater opportunity for on-field success in SD when compared to the situation in NY.
Eli Manning. I'd say he's totally fine with playing for the Giants. J
... and you don't think SD has a better chance of success over the next three years(including this one) than NY?
 
Great story and yeah.... Makes me root for the Chargers and against the Mannings and that BS they pulled. Jokes on them.
Hi Reaper. Do you mean jokes on New York? That would be accurate I think. They gave up a lot.I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
I don't blame NY and I actually like Eli as a QB and I'm not a Giants fan... The Giants overpayed but, that happens. Maybe if I were a Giants fan the overpayment would hurt more but, hey the Jets probably gave up more for Dewayne Freaking Robertson.As for the Joke, I feel the Mannings manipulated the system and decided that the Chargers and this Gm Sucked..... Apparently they were very very wrong.
 
I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
Not sure which Manning you are talking about but I think if on-field success was the rationale for avoiding SD then they should be unhappy because in the present and near future Eli would have a greater opportunity for on-field success in SD when compared to the situation in NY.
Eli Manning. I'd say he's totally fine with playing for the Giants. J
... and you don't think SD has a better chance of success over the next three years(including this one) than NY?
You could make that case. But I surely wouldn't scoff at the Giants. It's a tough league to predict for the long term future but they'll be at least be very competitive I'd think.J
 
Joe, The doormat that they are referring was 3 years ago (before the changes).In 2000, they were 1-15In 2001, they were 5-11In 2002, they were 8-8In 2003, they were 4-12Combined 19-46.Yes they were doormats and nobody wanted to come here. Since then they have been as dominant as anybody (hence the article)
For sure. That was a tough 9 year stretch after the Super Bowl. But it did have 2 years of .500 and 2 winning seasons. I guess I'm just saying I thought the Chargers turned it around 3 years ago and it seems interesting that it's news now. Good for them though. I think lots of fans would take their last 12 years. And definitely the last three (and more to come)J
I think the distinction is that they have finally built a core unit that should be around for some time to come. That really hasn't happened since the Fouts era. The SB team was broken up shortly after their appearance. It wasn't really built to last. After three years I think one can now look back and see that what exists now is built to last, hence the article. I don't think that could have been said one or two years ago.
 
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Great story and yeah.... Makes me root for the Chargers and against the Mannings and that BS they pulled. Jokes on them.
Hi Reaper. Do you mean jokes on New York? That would be accurate I think. They gave up a lot.I'd say Manning himself is totally fine with the way it played out with him in New York. J
I don't blame NY and I actually like Eli as a QB and I'm not a Giants fan... The Giants overpayed but, that happens. Maybe if I were a Giants fan the overpayment would hurt more but, hey the Jets probably gave up more for Dewayne Freaking Robertson.As for the Joke, I feel the Mannings manipulated the system and decided that the Chargers and this Gm Sucked..... Apparently they were very very wrong.
True that the Mannings were wrong about Smith being able to run the team. But they got exactly what they wanted. The "joke" would have been on the Manning if Mr. Mara had hired Matt Millen before he died or something like that.J
 
Joe, The doormat that they are referring was 3 years ago (before the changes).In 2000, they were 1-15In 2001, they were 5-11In 2002, they were 8-8In 2003, they were 4-12Combined 19-46.Yes they were doormats and nobody wanted to come here. Since then they have been as dominant as anybody (hence the article)
For sure. That was a tough 9 year stretch after the Super Bowl. But it did have 2 years of .500 and 2 winning seasons. I guess I'm just saying I thought the Chargers turned it around 3 years ago and it seems interesting that it's news now. Good for them though. I think lots of fans would take their last 12 years. And definitely the last three (and more to come)J
I think the distinction is that they have finally built a core unit that should be around for some time to come. That really hasn't happened since the Fouts era. The SB team was broken up shortly after their appearance. It wasn't really built to last. After three years I think one can now look back and see that what exists now is built to last, hence the article. I don't think that could have been said one or two years ago.
Hi jones,I can see that. It seems Rivers answering the big questions about whether he could be the guy (obviously yes) was sort of the last piece in the puzzle. Good for them. J
 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
Geez Joe, don't like the Chargers, eh? :confused:
 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
I'd agree with that. They were clearly wrong about Smith's abilities and the team's chances. This one may be only one the fathers here can understand but I can see where Archie was coming from. If you thought your son was about to get into what you very strongly believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a really bad situation, I think most dads would put themselves up for the ridicule that would come from making an incredibly unpopular decision. There was no upside to doing this for the Manning's outside of going to NY. And the obvious downside was the ridicule he knew he'd get.He had the leverage and he used it. I'm not sure I would have done it. But I can see totally where he was coming from. :shrug:J
 
I really don't understand the sudden "revival from a doormat" thing I see all the Charger fans on.

They're 32-13 over the last three seasons. Three years is an eternity in this league.

How does 32-13 compare to the other teams over the last three years?

J
Geez Joe, don't like the Chargers, eh? :confused:
Are you kidding? I'm pretty much a free agent fan but the Chargers are one of my favorite teams. It's been good to be a Charger fan for a good while now.J

 
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True that the Mannings were wrong about Smith being able to run the team. But they got exactly what they wanted. The "joke" would have been on the Manning if Mr. Mara had hired Matt Millen before he died or something like that.J
How so? If anything, the Giants GM stinks, and that team is falling apart... and Manning now looks awful languishing in the national spotlight. It's not like he's gotten tons of endorsements or anything due to it. And the Giants seem YEARS away from a SB.
 
True that the Mannings were wrong about Smith being able to run the team. But they got exactly what they wanted. The "joke" would have been on the Manning if Mr. Mara had hired Matt Millen before he died or something like that.J
How so? If anything, the Giants GM stinks, and that team is falling apart... and Manning now looks awful languishing in the national spotlight. It's not like he's gotten tons of endorsements or anything due to it. And the Giants seem YEARS away from a SB.
And I'll bet Rivers' second contract will be for a much larger amount than Eli's second contract.
 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.

There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
I'd agree with that. They were clearly wrong about Smith's abilities and the team's chances. This one may be only one the fathers here can understand but I can see where Archie was coming from.

If you thought your son was about to get into what you very strongly believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a really bad situation, I think most dads would put themselves up for the ridicule that would come from making an incredibly unpopular decision. There was no upside to doing this for the Manning's outside of going to NY. And the obvious downside was the ridicule he knew he'd get.

He had the leverage and he used it. I'm not sure I would have done it. But I can see totally where he was coming from. :shrug:

J
Agreed... And that Ridicule and the fact that they were dead wrong, to me is "The Joke"...One of the biggest names in the game made this GM feel like a worthless piece of garbage, if only for a second... No matter how much personal pride and confidence a man has, this manuever from one of the big names of the game has to make a man think and just "feel" for a bit......

The Ridicule... ie: "The Joke" is on Archie.

 
True that the Mannings were wrong about Smith being able to run the team. But they got exactly what they wanted. The "joke" would have been on the Manning if Mr. Mara had hired Matt Millen before he died or something like that.J
How so? If anything, the Giants GM stinks, and that team is falling apart... and Manning now looks awful languishing in the national spotlight. It's not like he's gotten tons of endorsements or anything due to it. And the Giants seem YEARS away from a SB.
I'm not sure if I'm as bearish on NY's future as you are but Tiki retiring is going to have a huge impact on that team. Purely from a QB's perspective I'd take Tomlinson/Gates/McNeil@LT/Olivea@RT and a defense led by Merriman over the NY situation to be sure.
 
True that the Mannings were wrong about Smith being able to run the team. But they got exactly what they wanted. The "joke" would have been on the Manning if Mr. Mara had hired Matt Millen before he died or something like that.J
How so? If anything, the Giants GM stinks, and that team is falling apart... and Manning now looks awful languishing in the national spotlight. It's not like he's gotten tons of endorsements or anything due to it. And the Giants seem YEARS away from a SB.
I guess we just differ on the Giants being as terrible as you think. Should be interesting. J
 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
I'd agree with that. They were clearly wrong about Smith's abilities and the team's chances. This one may be only one the fathers here can understand but I can see where Archie was coming from. If you thought your son was about to get into what you very strongly believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a really bad situation, I think most dads would put themselves up for the ridicule that would come from making an incredibly unpopular decision. There was no upside to doing this for the Manning's outside of going to NY. And the obvious downside was the ridicule he knew he'd get.He had the leverage and he used it. I'm not sure I would have done it. But I can see totally where he was coming from. :shrug:J
If every potential top pick treated the doormats of league like the Mannings did to the Chargers, then the Draft would be alot like the MLB draft. It would ultimatly knock the sport we all love down a couple notches on the ladder. That is why I hate the Mannings, not because they are too good to play for us in San Diego, but because they thought they were above the system. If everyone acted like that, the NFL would be crap.
 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.

There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
I'd agree with that. They were clearly wrong about Smith's abilities and the team's chances. This one may be only one the fathers here can understand but I can see where Archie was coming from.

If you thought your son was about to get into what you very strongly believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a really bad situation, I think most dads would put themselves up for the ridicule that would come from making an incredibly unpopular decision. There was no upside to doing this for the Manning's outside of going to NY. And the obvious downside was the ridicule he knew he'd get.

He had the leverage and he used it. I'm not sure I would have done it. But I can see totally where he was coming from. :shrug:

J
Agreed... And that Ridicule and the fact that they were dead wrong, to me is "The Joke"...One of the biggest names in the game made this GM feel like a worthless piece of garbage, if only for a second... No matter how much personal pride and confidence a man has, this manuever from one of the big names of the game has to make a man think and just "feel" for a bit......

The Ridicule... ie: "The Joke" is on Archie.
Again, maybe this is the father thing but if the "joke" is "ridicule" that's a risk you take all day long.It would have been infinitely easier to not have tried to protect him there. Turns out, Manning would have been in a fine situation in SD and the worries were unwarranted.

J

 
Both Eli and Rivers were going to have long successful careers regardless of where they ended up playing. I'm just glad SD ended up getting Merriman/Kaeding/Oben along with one of them.
Exactly BB. New York is the loser in this deal, not Eli Manning.J
Again, I'm not a Giants fan but, I think the Giants have a pretty good team and if they stayed healthy this year they were quite possibly the best team in the NFC... they still have a shot......I think both QB are going to be real good..... Only the Mannings were the one's in the whole situation who made an apparant conclusion that someone / some team Sucked and they were W R O N G.There may nopt be a loser in the whole thing... But, someone was definitely Wrong Archie.
I'd agree with that. They were clearly wrong about Smith's abilities and the team's chances. This one may be only one the fathers here can understand but I can see where Archie was coming from. If you thought your son was about to get into what you very strongly believed (rightly or wrongly) to be a really bad situation, I think most dads would put themselves up for the ridicule that would come from making an incredibly unpopular decision. There was no upside to doing this for the Manning's outside of going to NY. And the obvious downside was the ridicule he knew he'd get.He had the leverage and he used it. I'm not sure I would have done it. But I can see totally where he was coming from. :shrug:J
If every potential top pick treated the doormats of league like the Mannings did to the Chargers, then the Draft would be alot like the MLB draft. It would ultimatly knock the sport we all love down a couple notches on the ladder. That is why I hate the Mannings, not because they are too good to play for us in San Diego, but because they thought they were above the system. If everyone acted like that, the NFL would be crap.
I can see that. I don't think that will happen though as there are not many John Elways / Eli Mannings out there with the kind of leverage (options) they had.Bigger picture is the scorn and hatred a move like that brings being a huge negative. Probably not worth the positives for most players. So I wouldn't worry.J
 
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The bolts were a doormat for years. Since the Air coryell left till now they have had like 5 winning seasons.

They turned two #1 overall picks into a franchise poised to make a serious run. With Indy faltering and NE looking normal, the AFC looks to be between them & balty. I for one cannot wait.

Plus living in detroit, reading this article gives all lions fans hope, they just have to fire millen and get the right guy in place.

 
Again, maybe this is the father thing but if the "joke" is "ridicule" that's a risk you take all day long.It would have been infinitely easier to not have tried to protect him there. Turns out, Manning would have been in a fine situation in SD and the worries were unwarranted.J
How old was Eli at the time he was drafted?
 

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