Gov. Andrew Cuomo (5 Viewers)

[gianmarco]

Weird....he's not being defended here....that's refreshing.  The "sides" should take note....some things just aren't worth defending and that's ok.

I was going to post something similar.  Thank you.

 

[bigbottom]

A thread about Cuomo killing thousands and covering it up gets less action then Cruz going to Cancun. Good stuff  

Well that’s often what happens when there is a debate in one thread and no debate in another. It’s not necessarily a reflection on whether one is more important than another.  A thread on whether Dyson vacuums are worth the money is gonna get a lot more action than a thread on most newsworthy stories where folks are pretty much in agreement I would suspect.

Now if someone were to come into the thread and start arguing that what Cuomo did is no big deal, this thread would certainly get busier I would think. 

 

[crackattack]

Well that’s often what happens when there is a debate in one thread and no debate in another. It’s not necessarily a reflection on whether one is more important than another.  A thread on whether Dyson vacuums are worth the money is gonna get a lot more action than a thread on most newsworthy stories where folks are pretty much in agreement I would suspect.

Now if someone were to come into the thread and start arguing that what Cuomo did is no big deal, this thread would certainly get busier I would think. 

Probably right. I just figured this was more newsworthy. No talk of punishment. Possible crimes committed. Who should investigate etc etc. I just have a feeling if this was an R politician it would be blowing up. Even if in agreement of wrong doing??

Oh well

 

[GoBirds]

Probably right. I just figured this was more newsworthy. No talk of punishment. Possible crimes committed. Who should investigate etc etc. I just have a feeling if this was an R politician it would be blowing up. Even if in agreement of wrong doing??

Oh well

Oh it would. Goes to show the value of having the MSM in your pocket. 

 

[crackattack]

Oh it would. Goes to show the value of having the MSM in your pocket. 

Heidi Cruzs' texts to neighbors is higher on CNNs website then Cuomo murders. Obscene.

 

[Da Guru]

Heidi Cruzs' texts to neighbors is higher on CNNs website then Cuomo murders. Obscene.

What do you expect ?   It is CNN.

 

[squistion]

Heidi Cruzs' texts to neighbors is higher on CNNs website then Cuomo murders. Obscene.

So is people not having no running water or electricity in Texas and freezing in their homes while the Cruz family runs off to Cancun. 

 

[timschochet]

Heidi Cruzs' texts to neighbors is higher on CNNs website than Cuomo murders. Obscene.

Perhaps your labeling is what is obscene here? 
Governor Cuomo’s administration is under investigation for deliberately withholding state COVID statistics from the federal government. If true it’s a serious charge, though I’m not sure it’s a criminal offense nor necessarily is it a reason for him to step down- that depends on what is discovered and what the details are. 
Cuomo has also been accused, and admitted, keeping COVID patients in senior care centers at the start of the crisis which resulted in more deaths. My understanding is that this was an error, not deliberate, but I could be wrong about that. I suspect that’s what you’re referring to. In any event it’s an older story and it’s a huge reach (based on what is known) to call it murder. 

 

[The Commish]

A thread about Cuomo killing thousands and covering it up gets less action then Cruz going to Cancun. Good stuff  

Eta: and Rush Limbaugh's death. SMH. 

I suspect because everyone's in agreement that what Cuomo did was complete ####.  What is there to discuss really?  You'll have to ask those defending Cruz why they are....and I have no idea what's going on in the Rush thread....won't go near that garbage with a 10 foot pole  

 

[The Commish]

Well that’s often what happens when there is a debate in one thread and no debate in another. It’s not necessarily a reflection on whether one is more important than another.  A thread on whether Dyson vacuums are worth the money is gonna get a lot more action than a thread on most newsworthy stories where folks are pretty much in agreement I would suspect.

Now if someone were to come into the thread and start arguing that what Cuomo did is no big deal, this thread would certainly get busier I would think. 

  beat me to it.

 

[The Commish]

Probably right. I just figured this was more newsworthy. No talk of punishment. Possible crimes committed. Who should investigate etc etc. I just have a feeling if this was an R politician it would be blowing up. Even if in agreement of wrong doing??

Oh well

It's being investigated   Once we know what's going on there might be some talk around "punishment".  You're probably right that if it were a "R" politician it would be blowing up.  There's very little chance we wouldn't be arguing with those defending the "R" politician.  That's the difference.  Like I said...refreshing.  

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Cuomo and De Blasio are political opponents despite both being "D" democrats. Democrats span a pretty wide swath of the spectrum in NY. Both are hacks. Cuomo is a bully and demands loyalty (sound familiar) and De Blasio is incompetent, wants his term to end and isn't a native New Yorker. Always a slap fest between these two. Cuomo is more competent but loves to praise himself and is thin-skinned to criticism.

On the actual topic of the nursing homes, they could have nipped everything in the bud, but they let it fester and now they are reaping what they sowed on that. They've been very transparent on COVID data for the most part. Dr. Howard Zucker, the Commissioner of Health for NYS, has been unfairly dragged into this mess. He's the one now describing the different datasets and how they talk to each other. It's actually fairly complicated. He's been great throughout this pandemic. 

 

[jobarules]

That's a horrible analysis. New York and California are two of the worst run states handling Covid. Terrible take imo. 

CNN told him otherwise

 

[Summer Wheat]

So is people not having no running water or electricity in Texas and freezing in their homes while the Cruz family runs off to Cancun. 

I don`t even like Cruz but If Cruz were in DC with the senators the people would still not have running water or electricity. Governors are in charge of the state.

 

[jobarules]

Cuomo and De Blasio are political opponents despite both being "D" democrats. Democrats span a pretty wide swath of the spectrum in NY. Both are hacks. Cuomo is a bully and demands loyalty (sound familiar) and De Blasio is incompetent, wants his term to end and isn't a native New Yorker. Always a slap fest between these two. Cuomo is more competent but loves to praise himself and is thin-skinned to criticism.

On the actual topic of the nursing homes, they could have nipped everything in the bud, but they let it fester and now they are reaping what they sowed on that. They've been very transparent on COVID data for the most part. Dr. Howard Zucker, the Commissioner of Health for NYS, has been unfairly dragged into this mess. He's the one now describing the different datasets and how they talk to each other. It's actually fairly complicated. He's been great throughout this pandemic. 

Agreed 100%

 

[timschochet]

CNN told him otherwise

No Cuomo himself told me otherwise. I found his daily speeches in April and May of last year to be uplifting, highly informative, and magnificent, the exact opposite of Trump’s incompetence. I think Cuomo helped to save many lives. Nothing else that he’s done or hasn’t done changes that. 

 

[GoBirds]

Heidi Cruzs' texts to neighbors is higher on CNNs website then Cuomo murders. Obscene.

Yep, yet some people sadly support this cause it protects their side. It’s crazy. 

 

[Summer Wheat]

Chris Cuomo getting his own Tweet at Tim Boyd redirected back at him on Twitter. No comment from Chris on his brother as of yet.

Resign or apologize and learn and become a better leader? https://t.co/9RYMUYA1Ri

— Christopher C. Cuomo (@ChrisCuomo) February 18, 2021

 

[tonydead]

Perhaps your labeling is what is obscene here? 
Governor Cuomo’s administration is under investigation for deliberately withholding state COVID statistics from the federal government. If true it’s a serious charge, though I’m not sure it’s a criminal offense nor necessarily is it a reason for him to step down- that depends on what is discovered and what the details are. 
Cuomo has also been accused, and admitted, keeping COVID patients in senior care centers at the start of the crisis which resulted in more deaths. My understanding is that this was an error, not deliberate, but I could be wrong about that. I suspect that’s what you’re referring to. In any event it’s an older story and it’s a huge reach (based on what is known) to call it murder. 

You might refer to multiple counts of manslaughter, as you describe it, in normal discourse as murder.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

No Cuomo himself told me otherwise. I found his daily speeches in April and May of last year to be uplifting, highly informative, and magnificent, the exact opposite of Trump’s incompetence. I think Cuomo helped to save many lives. Nothing else that he’s done or hasn’t done changes that. 

You place far too much weight on the ability to give a good speech.  Public speaking skills are nice to have, but there's little reason to think that they correlate with good government.

I wonder if there are any historical examples of people who were known as good-speech-givers who also ended up being terrible for their own people and the rest of the world?  I guess we'll never know.

 

[Cjw_55106]

23 minutes ago, timschochet said:
Cuomo has also been accused, and admitted, keeping COVID patients in senior care centers at the start of the crisis which resulted in more deaths. My understanding is that this was an error, not deliberate, but I could be wrong about that. I suspect that’s what you’re referring to. In any event it’s an older story and it’s a huge reach (based on what is known) to call it murder. 

I don’t understand how you make a mandate and not have it be deliberate? 
6,326 COVID-positive residents were admitted to [nursing home] facilities" following Cuomo's mandate that nursing homes accept the readmission of Covid-positive patients from hospitals.

 

[crackattack]

Perhaps your labeling is what is obscene here? 
Governor Cuomo’s administration is under investigation for deliberately withholding state COVID statistics from the federal government. If true it’s a serious charge, though I’m not sure it’s a criminal offense nor necessarily is it a reason for him to step down- that depends on what is discovered and what the details are. 
Cuomo has also been accused, and admitted, keeping COVID patients in senior care centers at the start of the crisis which resulted in more deaths. My understanding is that this was an error, not deliberate, but I could be wrong about that. I suspect that’s what you’re referring to. In any event it’s an older story and it’s a huge reach (based on what is known) to call it murder. 

What else would you call it? He knowingly put Covid patients into nursing homes. He had a policy doing so??? Knowing full well what covid does to at risk and elderly. Involuntary manslaughter better? Give me the legal definition of killing thousands due to arrogance and ineptitude.

 

[tonydead]

Months after Cuomo is out of office and everyone on the planet has denounced his actions but Tim watch for the thread, " Okay I was wrong about Cuomo". 
 

 

[timschochet]

What else would you call it? He knowingly put Covid patients into nursing homes. He had a policy doing so??? Knowing full well what covid does to at risk and elderly. Involuntary manslaughter better? Give me the legal definition of killing thousands due to arrogance and ineptitude.

Is Cuomo being charged with involuntary manslaughter? 
I don’t think such phrases should be thrown around loosely, especially to describe public health policy. 
And you also completely ignored my main point: you complained that this wasn’t getting the attention of the Ted Cruz story- but the Cruz story is new. We’ve known about the nursing homes for months now. 

 

[timschochet]

Months after Cuomo is out of office and everyone on the planet has denounced his actions but Tim watch for the thread, " Okay I was wrong about Cuomo". 
 

My judgment of the speeches he gave last year is unlikely to change. As for the rest of it, when I get facts that contradict my thinking, I change my thinking. I’m not sure why you think that’s something worthy of mockery or criticism. 

 

[crackattack]

Is Cuomo being charged with involuntary manslaughter? 
I don’t think such phrases should be thrown around loosely, especially to describe public health policy. 
And you also completely ignored my main point: you complained that this wasn’t getting the attention of the Ted Cruz story- but the Cruz story is new. We’ve known about the nursing homes for months now. 

Ok. So Cuomo having a policy putting COVID infected patients in nursing homes, causing the deaths of thousands would be what? Remember we've "known for months" about what COVID would do to at risk and the elderly. What would call his actions and policy?

Eta: you're more critical of Rush than Cuomo. I find that odd.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My judgment of the speeches he gave last year is unlikely to change. As for the rest of it, when I get facts that contradict my thinking, I change my thinking. I’m not sure why you think that’s something worthy of mockery or criticism. 

What's worthy of mockery and criticism is that you think "That guy gave a really good speech that one time" is a good defense to "He killed my grandma and covered it up."  Those two claims are completely orthogonal to one another.  It's like a defense attorney arguing that his client couldn't possibly have been driving under the influence because he dresses so nicely.  That kind of response really deserves to be made fun of -- it doesn't merit refutation because it's a howler, to use an archaic term.

 

[The Commish]

No Cuomo himself told me otherwise. I found his daily speeches in April and May of last year to be uplifting, highly informative, and magnificent, the exact opposite of Trump’s incompetence. I think Cuomo helped to save many lives. Nothing else that he’s done or hasn’t done changes that. 

Maybe have a standard higher than Trump?  It's likely he lied to a good many.  That's a problem.  He helped save some lives and made decisions that killed people.  That happens when imperfect people are in charge of making decisions.  

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

People should understand that NY state was following the CDC guidance at the time. Calling it "Cuomo's policy" is not correct. Not defending him, just stating the fact. Many states followed this guidance until it was updated. NY had a hospital bed crisis at the time as well. It's a complex set of events that one should really go back to March 2020 and read up on the timeline to fully get all of the facts correct. 

 

[timschochet]

Ok. So Cuomo having a policy putting COVID infected patients in nursing homes, causing the deaths of thousands would be what? Remember we've "known for months" about what COVID would do to at risk and the elderly. What would call his actions and policy?

I wouldn’t call it anything yet because I’m not sure of the facts. Months ago when I first read about it I considered it a grave initial error which Cuomo admitted to, based on public health concerns and advice, and which he took steps to quickly correct. That was the extent of my analysis back then and as it turns out that may have been wrong. On the other hand, it may have been right and what Cuomo is really guilty of, beyond initial mistakes, is an egotistical need to cover up those mistakes and deny rather than admit failure. That’s a possibility as well, a good one I believe. But again at this point we just don’t know. Hopefully we will. 

 

[The Commish]

@crackattack See....now you're getting your wish.  Between people pushing back on the defense of Cuomo and those randomly fishing around with snark against "sides" your concern on thread size should be fixed here shortly  

 

[tonydead]

My judgment of the speeches he gave last year is unlikely to change. As for the rest of it, when I get facts that contradict my thinking, I change my thinking. I’m not sure why you think that’s something worthy of mockery or criticism. 

Usually it's the amount of facts compared to the timing of your flip flops.  And that you feel the need to make your own look at me threads about it. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im kind of perplexed about all of this. Tons of people expressed outrage back when this happened and all the while, Cuomo was pedestalized for how great of a job he was doing. 

While waay to late for my liking, credit where credit is due, I firmly believe if this was a R governor, people on that side would be lining up to defend him.....I dont see that happening here. 

Yeah, yeah, if it was a R governor, it would have never happened. Thats not my point. 

 

[jm192]

No Cuomo himself told me otherwise. I found his daily speeches in April and May of last year to be uplifting, highly informative, and magnificent, the exact opposite of Trump’s incompetence. I think Cuomo helped to save many lives. Nothing else that he’s done or hasn’t done changes that. 

I don't get this.

Cuomo forced nursing homes to accept COVID patients before they were ready to do so.  COVID patients died in nursing homes and spread the illness to others who also died.  He covered up nursing home COVID death numbers.  Yet, you're telling me he saved lives and nothing he's done will change that?  

That's interesting.

 

[timschochet]

What's worthy of mockery and criticism is that you think "That guy gave a really good speech that one time" is a good defense to "He killed my grandma and covered it up."  Those two claims are completely orthogonal to one another.  It's like a defense attorney arguing that his client couldn't possibly have been driving under the influence because he dresses so nicely.  That kind of response really deserves to be made fun of -- it doesn't merit refutation because it's a howler, to use an archaic term.

That would indeed be worthy of mockery if it was true. But it isn’t. I never offered his speeches as a defense for anything. A couple of posters brought up my reaction to those speeches from last year, apparently to rip me in light of what’s happening now. But I stand by what I wrote. His speeches were great. They don’t justify wrongdoing. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I wouldn’t call it anything yet because I’m not sure of the facts. Months ago when I first read about it I considered it a grave initial error which Cuomo admitted to, based on public health concerns and advice, and which he took steps to quickly correct. That was the extent of my analysis back then and as it turns out that may have been wrong. On the other hand, it may have been right and what Cuomo is really guilty of, beyond initial mistakes, is an egotistical need to cover up those mistakes and deny rather than admit failure. That’s a possibility as well, a good one I believe. But again at this point we just don’t know. Hopefully we will. 

The bolded is a fair representation IMO. Mistakes followed by not being forthcoming due to arrogance. 

 

[tonydead]

Im kind of perplexed about all of this. Tons of people expressed outrage back when this happened and all the while, Cuomo was pedestalized for how great of a job he was doing. 

While waay to late for my liking, credit where credit is due, I firmly believe if this was a R governor, people on that side would be lining up to defend him.....I dont see that happening here. 

Yeah, yeah, if it was a R governor, it would have never happened. Thats not my point. 

If it were an R governor he would have been convicted in the press and impeached months ago. 

 

[jm192]

People should understand that NY state was following the CDC guidance at the time. Calling it "Cuomo's policy" is not correct. Not defending him, just stating the fact. Many states followed this guidance until it was updated. NY had a hospital bed crisis at the time as well. It's a complex set of events that one should really go back to March 2020 and read up on the timeline to fully get all of the facts correct. 

It's a tough situation.  Because hospitals NEED the beds, and at the point a patient no longer needs hospital care--keeping them there because they have COVID doesn't benefit the patient or other patients that can't get a bed.  

But I think nursing homes were still new to this and figuring out how to do it.  I'm a physician in KY.  We initially had a very hard time getting patients to nursing homes.  As time went on, nursing homes were able to stock up on PPE, develop isoloation protocols, etc.  And they were able to safely accept patients.  

It's a several very complex problem.  And sure, CDC said XYZ.  But at the end of the day, Cuomo's governor.  He issued the state mandate.  He got the praise for "doing so well."  He gets the heat for the mandate.  

But none of that is the deal breaker.  The mandate is pond compared to an ocean of cover up and lies.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

People should understand that NY state was following the CDC guidance at the time. Calling it "Cuomo's policy" is not correct. Not defending him, just stating the fact. Many states followed this guidance until it was updated. NY had a hospital bed crisis at the time as well. It's a complex set of events that one should really go back to March 2020 and read up on the timeline to fully get all of the facts correct. 

You're right, and other states (PA and NJ, e.g.) did the same thing.  I do think it's worth noting that there was heavy pushback at the time from the nursing homes that this policy was going to result in preventable deaths of nursing home residents.  Cuomo basically told them to pound sand.  Which, there are ways to defend the decision given what was known at the time.  But, if you're Cuomo and you make the decision over those voiced objections, you don't get to turn around and try to fudge reality at a later date (and I know you're not defending his action there).  I think "murder" is maybe a bit much, but he chose to implement a policy that he knew (or should have known) would lead to more deaths of the infirm in order to save potential future capacity in the hospitals, and that decision had consequences and those include political fallout for the call he made.

 

[Cjw_55106]

You're right, and other states (PA and NJ, e.g.) did the same thing.  I do think it's worth noting that there was heavy pushback at the time from the nursing homes that this policy was going to result in preventable deaths of nursing home residents.  Cuomo basically told them to pound sand.  Which, there are ways to defend the decision given what was known at the time.  But, if you're Cuomo and you make the decision over those voiced objections, you don't get to turn around and try to fudge reality at a later date (and I know you're not defending his action there).  I think "murder" is maybe a bit much, but he chose to implement a policy that he knew (or should have known) would lead to more deaths of the infirm in order to save potential future capacity in the hospitals, and that decision had consequences and those include political fallout for the call he made.

Correct me if my memory is off...I believe he at one point even blamed the nursing homes. 

 

[crackattack]

@crackattack See....now you're getting your wish.  Between people pushing back on the defense of Cuomo and those randomly fishing around with snark against "sides" your concern on thread size should be fixed here shortly  

Awesome! Thanks. It should be a hot topic. Cuomo did not follow cdc guidelines completely and wrote a policy that contributed to thousands of deaths. 

 

[Stealthycat]

we've known he did that for a year now - throwing covid positive people back into nursing home which resulted in many many deaths

why is it only now being talked about ? 

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Correct me if my memory is off...I believe he at one point even blamed the nursing homes. 

What I definitely remember him doing, and just found with a quick google search, is that he denied that he made the nursing homes take Covid positive patients, suggesting that they took them of their own accord.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Id be shocked if any criminal chargers were filed. That said, I'd love to see Chris interview him and bring out oversized handcuffs while the two enjoyed each other's company. 

we've known he did that for a year now - throwing covid positive people back into nursing home which resulted in many many deaths

why is it only now being talked about ? 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's top aide says the administration delayed the release of data on Covid-19 deaths of long-term care facility residents because of concerns about a potential federal investigation, a transcript of a call between the aide and state lawmakers shows. The now public data revealed thousands more confirmed and presumed Covid-19 deaths of long-term care facility residents than previously disclosed.

 

[Cjw_55106]

What I definitely remember him doing, and just found with a quick google search, is that he denied that he made the nursing homes take Covid positive patients, suggesting that they took them of their own accord.

Thanks'. I would consider that blaming the nursing homes. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

we've known he did that for a year now - throwing covid positive people back into nursing home which resulted in many many deaths

why is it only now being talked about ? 

Many local papers and local politicians have been talking about this all year, with ebbs and flows along the way. What happened recently was that Cuomo's staff met with state legislators to go over the legislators' list of questions and it took the administration 6 months to get the legislators the answers they asked for. But pretty much every Cuomo tweet is followed by half of the comments saying "Resign, you killed nursing home patients" or something similar. 

 

[tonydead]

That would indeed be worthy of mockery if it was true. But it isn’t. I never offered his speeches as a defense for anything. A couple of posters brought up my reaction to those speeches from last year, apparently to rip me in light of what’s happening now. But I stand by what I wrote. His speeches were great. They don’t justify wrongdoing. 

What he is being accused of happened before those speeches, and while you were drooling over those speeches back then, some of us where telling you what he did.  He had you fooled and apparently you didn't listen or learn.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Thanks'. I would consider that blaming the nursing homes. 

Agreed.  I mean, is he saying that since they didn't openly defy his order that they are culpable?  It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Stealthycat]

Many local papers and local politicians have been talking about this all year, with ebbs and flows along the way. What happened recently was that Cuomo's staff met with state legislators to go over the legislators' list of questions and it took the administration 6 months to get the legislators the answers they asked for. But pretty much every Cuomo tweet is followed by half of the comments saying "Resign, you killed nursing home patients" or something similar. 

Id be shocked if any criminal chargers were filed. That said, I'd love to see Chris interview him and bring out oversized handcuffs while the two enjoyed each other's company. 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's top aide says the administration delayed the release of data on Covid-19 deaths of long-term care facility residents because of concerns about a potential federal investigation, a transcript of a call between the aide and state lawmakers shows. The now public data revealed thousands more confirmed and presumed Covid-19 deaths of long-term care facility residents than previously disclosed.

I remember all this being talked about on multiple platforms in April of 2020 ....... people just ignored it for the most part

I'm GLAD its not gone away, that he was allowed to do what he did is unbelievable to me ..... I just figured he'd be covered up by Democrats and get away with his crimes 

 

[The Commish]

Awesome! Thanks. It should be a hot topic. Cuomo did not follow cdc guidelines completely and wrote a policy that contributed to thousands of deaths. 

It seems pretty noncontroversial to me.  But for irrational defenses and bad fishing trips, I don't see a lot that needs to be discussed on this if what we're told is true.  Seems very cut/dry.