Government Response To The Coronavirus (1 Viewer)

[Max Power]

I literally have a confirmation that I'm getting Comirnaty.

Fact checked just for you:

Also, this:

You need better sources of information.

I'll do you one better, call Pfizer medical services information at (800) 438-1985. Ask them about Comirnaty's availability. I'll wait...

 

[The Z Machine]

Fauci is a liar and PH professionals get it wrong, a lot ... they're not reliable

More reliable than wherever you get your info, that's for sure. 

 

[Sand]

First Omicron case found in US.  I think it's time we go ahead and quarantine California.  It's the only responsible thing to do.

 

[-fish-]

I'll do you one better, call Pfizer medical services information at (800) 438-1985. Ask them about Comirnaty's availability. I'll wait...

I literally just quoted their spokesperson who was quoted on the record, and provided you an article debunking what you are claiming.   

 

[Biff84]

I literally just quoted their spokesperson who was quoted on the record, and provided you an article debunking what you are claiming.   

But have you gotten the opinion of a random call center employee? We should also alert their marketing department because their commercials that run every 15 minutes on our PA system says that it’s currently available at many pharmacies.

 

[Max Power]

I literally just quoted their spokesperson who was quoted on the record, and provided you an article debunking what you are claiming.   

Talk to a rep or listen further where they expressly state they have no information on the availability of Comirnaty at this time. A representative will confirm they are different.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Fauci says travel bans don't stop the spread, but give us more time to figure it out.  Yet this case was in America before the ban. Science!

Omicron is the dominant variant in South Africa. 

Nobody ever said a travel ban would stop all spread. Or that there were zero cases that escaped. 

But when one plane has like 30 cases, one case in CA pales in comparison. 

how many flights should we let out of South Africa with those numbers? 

 

[-fish-]

Talk to a rep or listen further where they expressly state they have no information on the availability of Comirnaty at this time. A representative will confirm they are different.

Dude.  

A company cannot put a brand name on a vaccine until it gets FDA approval.  Under the EUA, the vaccine was called "Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine."  Once it got approval, they were able to put a brand name on it.  Comirnaty.   There was no change in the vaccine.   New vials will say Comirnaty; old vials will say "Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine" or BNT162b2.  But since Comirnaty is not a formula, but a name, it is absolutely available in the US.   Now if you take the same vaccine and give it to a 12-year old, you have to call it Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine.

 Another fact check of your misunderstanding (which I think is just more purposeful obfuscation).

 

[Max Power]

Dude.  

A company cannot put a brand name on a vaccine until it gets FDA approval.  Under the EUA, the vaccine was called "Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine."  Once it got approval, they were able to put a brand name on it.  Comirnaty.   There was no change in the vaccine.   New vials will say Comirnaty; old vials will say "Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine" or BNT162b2.  But since Comirnaty is not a formula, but a name, it is absolutely available in the US.   Now if you take the same vaccine and give it to a 12-year old, you have to call it Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine.

 Another fact check of your misunderstanding (which I think is just more purposeful obfuscation).

And they are legally distinct products. One is fully FDA approved. The other is EUA authorized. That's per Pfizer and the FDA. Anyone here can call Pfizer and verify this.

A vaccine that comes out of a vial labeled for EUA is an EUA vaccine. It's not difficult. You can't legally substitute legally distinct products for each other. 

 

[GoBirds]

First Omicron case found in US.  I think it's time we go ahead and quarantine California.  It's the only responsible thing to do.

Agreed, great move on many levels. 

 

[The Z Machine]

You can't legally substitute legally distinct products for each other

An extremely minor distinction without a difference. They are functionally, physically, pharmacologically, and biologically equivalent.  So why would you be willing to take one but not the other?

My hunch is that you wouldn't be willing to get a jab if it came from a bottle labeled "Comirnaty" either.  You'll come up with another excuse. 

 

[-fish-]

And they are legally distinct products. One is fully FDA approved. The other is EUA authorized. That's per Pfizer and the FDA. Anyone here can call Pfizer and verify this.

A vaccine that comes out of a vial labeled for EUA is an EUA vaccine. It's not difficult. You can't legally substitute legally distinct products for each other. 

Except in this case they can, and they are.   The only difference is branding.   

If that's the hill you want to die on, go ahead.   

From the second link debunking your claim:

One Instagram post acknowledged the Comirnaty vaccine had received FDA approval, but made the false claim that the only available doses are Pfizer vials that are still just under emergency use authorization.

In fact, Comirnaty is the new brand name Pfizer is using to market its COVID-19 vaccine and there is no distinction between the two.

 

[-fish-]

Since they have FDA approval now, they could call it Steve if they wanted to.   It would still say "Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine" on the bottle, but they could make all the commercials they want about how great Steve is.  And when you go to meet Steve, you get a dose of Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA Vaccine.  All fine and legal.  

 

[Max Power]

An extremely minor distinction without a difference. They are functionally, physically, pharmacologically, and biologically equivalent.  So why would you be willing to take one but not the other?

My hunch is that you wouldn't be willing to get a jab if it came from a bottle labeled "Comirnaty" either.  You'll come up with another excuse. 

I dont need the jab. I survived covid. I'm pointing out the legal distinction that I took to my command legal team for clarification and they have yet to provide a response. 

 

[Max Power]

Except in this case they can, and they are.   The only difference is branding.   

If that's the hill you want to die on, go ahead.   

From the second link debunking your claim:

I'm telling you the ultimate debunk is calling Pfizer. They will explain it to anyone who listens. 

 

[Biff84]

An extremely minor distinction without a difference. They are functionally, physically, pharmacologically, and biologically equivalent.  So why would you be willing to take one but not the other?

My hunch is that you wouldn't be willing to get a jab if it came from a bottle labeled "Comirnaty" either.  You'll come up with another excuse. 

You’ve gotta love the argument that the FDA would require extensive testing of a vaccine to prove that it is safe and effective before it’s approved. But once it gets that approval, that vaccine is not approved…only the one that has the new brand on the vial. Which must be something different than the vaccine which was studied to gain the approval.

 

[The Z Machine]

I dont need the jab. I survived covid. I'm pointing out the legal distinction that I took to my command legal team for clarification and they have yet to provide a response. 

Why would you take this question your legal department if you don't need the vaccine?

 

[Max Power]

Why would you take this question your legal department if you don't need the vaccine?

Mandates don't accept natural immunity 

 

[The Z Machine]

Mandates don't accept natural immunity 

Does the mandate at your workplace require a fully FDA approved vaccine?

 

[Max Power]

Does the mandate at your workplace require a fully FDA approved vaccine?

Yes. It can be waived by Biden but he has not done that. 

 

[The Z Machine]

Yes. It can be waived by Biden but he has not done that. 

So no one at your workplace who got J&J or Moderna would be clear under this mandate?

 

[Max Power]

So no one at your workplace who got J&J or Moderna would be clear under this mandate?

This is the meat of the Sec Def Memo. Any vaccine works to be considered fully vaccinated. Mandating will only use fully approved vaccines. Biden can waive this requirement, but he has not. 

Mandatory vaccination against COVID-19 will only use COVID-19 vaccines that receive full licensure from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), in accordance with FDA-approved labeling and guidance. Service members voluntarily immunized with a COVID-19 vaccine under FDA Emergency Use Authorization or World Health Organization Emergency Use Listing in accordance with applicable dose requirements prior to, or after, the establishment of this policy are considered fully vaccinated. 

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2745742/secretary-of-defense-austin-issues-guidance-for-mandatory-coronavirus-disease-2/

 

[The Z Machine]

Ah, I see.  So if you voluntarily got a vax, you're good with any of the EUA vaxxes. But if you didn't volunteer, then you must get a fully FDA approved vax, and the only one is Comirnaty, which you believe is different than the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine that is currently being given out now.

And if your legal team clarifies than the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine that is available currently is considered FDA approved, what will you do?

 

[Sinn Fein]

Mandates don't accept natural immunity 

Natural immunity has a limited shelf-life.  I think the CDC suggests limited protection for at least 6 months. And, CDC recommends vaccination for anyone who has recovered from Covid.

I don't know the current shelf life of the FDA-approved vaccines, and how that compares. But, if I were to argue that natural immunity should be covered - I would probably start here.

Given the language above, this seems like a tough argument to win.  I am not sure I understand your upside here  

 

[Max Power]

Ah, I see.  So if you voluntarily got a vax, you're good with any of the EUA vaxxes. But if you didn't volunteer, then you must get a fully FDA approved vax, and the only one is Comirnaty, which you believe is different than the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine that is currently being given out now.

And if your legal team clarifies than the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine that is available currently is considered FDA approved, what will you do?

Either get vaccinated or face disciplinary review. 

The fact that they've had this seemly simple request on their desk for almost two months and now the office of personnel management wants to delay any reviews until 2022 doesn't give me confidence this is a cut and dry conclusion. 

 

[The Z Machine]

Either get vaccinated or face disciplinary review. 

The fact that they've had this seemly simple request on their desk for almost two months and now the office of personnel management wants to delay any reviews until 2022 doesn't give me confidence this is a cut and dry conclusion. 

Maybe they hope it will all go away and they won't have to have any disciplinary reviews.

I do hope you get vaccinated as I want you to stay healthy, but if you don't, I don't want you to face discipline / termination for your choice.  

 

[The Commish]

The vaccines haven't been FDA approved. 

This is false

 

[Max Power]

Natural immunity has a limited shelf-life.  I think the CDC suggests limited protection for at least 6 months. And, CDC recommends vaccination for anyone who has recovered from Covid.

I don't know the current shelf life of the FDA-approved vaccines, and how that compares. But, if I were to argue that natural immunity should be covered - I would probably start here.

Given the language above, this seems like a tough argument to win.  I am not sure I understand your upside here  

There are several studies stating natural immunity is robust and durable. To dismiss it out right isnt science. I'm more than happy with the protection it affords me.

Vaccines seem to be 6 months. With J&J trailing in at 2 months effectiveness. Someone who took J&J 6 months ago is still fully vaccinated by this mandate, but not someone with a natural infection 2-3 month ago. This mandate is silly and doesn't follow the science at all. 

 

[Max Power]

Maybe they hope it will all go away and they won't have to have any disciplinary reviews.

I do hope you get vaccinated as I want you to stay healthy, but if you don't, I don't want you to face discipline / termination for your choice.  

I think it's going to be hard for them to fire federal workers. Its already beyond a chore. We dont fire people even after clear ethical violations. I'm not sure the grounds they will have for termination going forward. 

I'm prepared for whatever happens, but I appreciate the concern. I'm young enough and healthy. No serious health concerns. 

 

[tonydead]

If they are recommending boosters after 6 months for Mederna/Pfiser after 2 months for JJ, I think we know the shelf life.

Sadly the vaccines arent as effective as advertised.  You're just as protected from natural antibodies than you are with the vaccine. And vaccines dont keep you from contracting it at all.  

 

[Dickies]

1) There are still vaccinated people dying. Getting a booster will improve their chances

2) Whether you want to admit it or not, the more vaccinated the less spread there is

I’m amazed that we’ve had the vaccine for as long as we have and people are still too obtuse to figure this out

 

[Alex P Keaton]

If they are recommending boosters after 6 months for Mederna/Pfiser after 2 months for JJ, I think we know the shelf life.

Sadly the vaccines arent as effective as advertised.  You're just as protected from natural antibodies than you are with the vaccine. And vaccines dont keep you from contracting it at all.  

It’s amazing that your misinformation campaign continues unabated.

 

[Dickies]

The vaccines haven't been FDA approved. 

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna

FDA’s website says they are approved

 

[Dickies]

And they are legally distinct products. One is fully FDA approved. The other is EUA authorized. That's per Pfizer and the FDA. Anyone here can call Pfizer and verify this.

A vaccine that comes out of a vial labeled for EUA is an EUA vaccine. It's not difficult. You can't legally substitute legally distinct products for each other. 

It’s the exact same formulation. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

That is part of the reason. The major reason wasn't so that I could go to the mall or see a movie though. The single major motivating factor to get the shot when I did (mid February) was to help prevent thousands of people from dying every single day. Why do you continually fail to recognize the compassion that 100's of millions of people have for their neighbors and friends and foes

you seem to have answered your own question

 

[timschochet]

I’ve never heard of Lara Logan before, but apparently she is a reporter on Fox News and she is comparing Dr. Fauci to Dr. Josef Mengele. 
 

I sincerely hope I never hear of her again. 

 

[Max Power]

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna

FDA’s website says they are approved

Comirnaty is approved. Call pfizer and ask where you can get the vaccine labeled comirnaty. It is unavailable in the US currently. This isn't a conspiracy. Pfizer will tell as much. 

 

[Max Power]

It’s the exact same formulation. 

Different products legally. If you have an AE to the product, you get the EUA treatment.

 

[pmedina]

Another thread highjacked by nonsense and deliberate misinformation. 
 

Call the consumer hotline . 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, which has about a million people.  We’re a highly vaccinated county.  80% of the county is fully vaccinated right now (and that number is going up because lots of kids are getting it now).  99% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Montgomery County Covid stats.

So I just googled around and tried to find another large county with a much lower vaccination rate to compare it to.  I settled on Tarrant County, Texas, which has about 2 million people.  Only 52% of Tarrant County is fully vaccinated right now, and 84% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Tarrant County stats.

Both counties have seen case numbers go up due to Delta.  But even though Tarrant County is only 2x as big as my county, it has had 11x as many Covid deaths in the last two weeks. (78 to 7).

My perception is that vaccines are the reason for this difference.  How do the “vaccines are worthless” crowd explain it?

 

[supermike80]

So I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, which has about a million people.  We’re a highly vaccinated county.  80% of the county is fully vaccinated right now (and that number is going up because lots of kids are getting it now).  99% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Montgomery County Covid stats.

So I just googled around and tried to find another large county with a much lower vaccination rate to compare it to.  I settled on Tarrant County, Texas, which has about 2 million people.  Only 52% of Tarrant County is fully vaccinated right now, and 84% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Tarrant County stats.

Both counties have seen case numbers go up due to Delta.  But even though Tarrant County is only 2x as big as my county, it has had 11x as many Covid deaths in the last two weeks. (78 to 7).

My perception is that vaccines are the reason for this difference.  How do the “vaccines are worthless” crowd explain it?

One data comparison and you go ahead and make a conclusion like this?  Dude.  Make sure you post this on Facebook though so you get lots of thumbs up.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

One data comparison and you go ahead and make a conclusion like this?  Dude.  Make sure you post this on Facebook though so you get lots of thumbs up.  

I provided what seems like my strongest hypothesis to explain why one county has more than 5 times as many deaths.  I am interested in hearing if there are other hypotheses.

 

[supermike80]

I provided what seems like my strongest hypothesis to explain why one county has more than 5 times as many deaths.  I am interested in hearing if there are other hypotheses.

I totally can see you felt it was a strong hypothesis.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If two counties have very different vaccination rates and also very different rates of death from covid-19, and we have excellent evidence from controlled trials that vaccines reduce the risk of infection, hospitalization, and death, it seems like our default explanation for that difference is that vaccination is causing a decrease in deaths.

If there's some other explanation, let's hear it.  Maybe that county in Texas is pumping coronavirus into the water supply because their water commissioner is an evil mastermind -- that would certainly explain things.  But the "vaccines are good" hypothesis seems a lot more parsimonious.  

 

[jobarules]

So I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, which has about a million people.  We’re a highly vaccinated county.  80% of the county is fully vaccinated right now (and that number is going up because lots of kids are getting it now).  99% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Montgomery County Covid stats.

So I just googled around and tried to find another large county with a much lower vaccination rate to compare it to.  I settled on Tarrant County, Texas, which has about 2 million people.  Only 52% of Tarrant County is fully vaccinated right now, and 84% of people 65 and over are fully vaccinated. Tarrant County stats.

Both counties have seen case numbers go up due to Delta.  But even though Tarrant County is only 2x as big as my county, it has had 11x as many Covid deaths in the last two weeks. (78 to 7).

My perception is that vaccines are the reason for this difference.  How do the “vaccines are worthless” crowd explain it?

Is there anybody saying the vaccine is worthless? Ive seen people saying they'd rather not risk it. Ive seen people say they think the vaccine works and took it themselves but are against mandates. Ive seen people say their natural immunity is enough protection and dont need the vaccine. Ive seen people say that the vaccine doesnt really limit spread. Other than a few kooks on the innernets I havent seen anyone say the vaccine is worthless.

 

[Rich Conway]

Is there anybody saying the vaccine is worthless?

Several posters on this forum have made that exact claim, yes.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

If two counties have very different vaccination rates and also very different rates of death from covid-19, and we have excellent evidence from controlled trials that vaccines reduce the risk of infection, hospitalization, and death, it seems like our default explanation for that difference is that vaccination is causing a decrease in deaths.

If there's some other explanation, let's hear it.  Maybe that county in Texas is pumping coronavirus into the water supply because their water commissioner is an evil mastermind -- that would certainly explain things.  But the "vaccines are good" hypothesis seems a lot more parsimonious.  

Yup.  Let’s hear it.  Because this simple anecdotal evidence matches up with broad data sets (Eg from Israel, large US states) that show vastly different death rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated people.   That isn’t up for debate anymore — we have mounds of data that all tell us the same thing.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Is there anybody saying the vaccine is worthless? 

It’s been said on these boards over and over and over, whether overtly or subtly.

 

[jobarules]

Several posters on this forum have made that exact claim, yes.

It’s been said on these boards over and over and over, whether overtly or subtly.

Show me one poster that said the vaccine is worthless.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Show me one poster that said the vaccine is worthless.

There are a handful of regular posters who come in here every week with some variation on "Look at all these breakthrough infections -- those vaccines sure are worthless."  It sort of feels like I'm insulting people like @Stealthycat by attributing such a silly position to them, but other posters have patiently explained why that argument is wrong, over and over again, for months at a time, and yet that argument still keeps cropping up regularly. 

At some point the rest of us have no choice to conclude that people on the other side are making terrible and easily-refuted argument either out of stupidity or out of bad faith.  "Bad faith" feels like the more charitable explanation, so that's what I'm going with.