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can you post proof that they haven't?
I think you are both right. You can still get covid after vaccination. The decreased viral load means that is much more unlikely to cause death. At some point we will know more about how effective the vaccines are and how the virus is transmitted. There is also the idea that a virus that kills about 1-2 percent of its victims before the vaccine is something to freak out all the time about.(and i am someone vulnerable to covid and wear a mask in public up to this day) To give you an idea all the people who have died in America from Covid i think i read somewhere equals the number of people who die from cancer each year and Covid is like 14 months now. But i am not sure keeping schools closed and churches closed is the right thing either....
Did you know that most people that arent vaccinated and test positive dont transmit to a single other person?
That’s not the point. People continue to thrash the dude because they disagree with his viewpoints (or don’t understand the priority of his actual job). By all accounts the guy has been exceptionally his entire life and is clearly a very intelligent guy. None of that makes him faultless or frees him from making mistakes but the bashing and politicizing is comical. Lots of keyboard warrior genius’s* who all know more then one of the most respected people in their field IMO.
i understand no offense taken. The problem is that there hasn't been any real investigation into how this started. There are some documents on US Govt websites that point to HHS for paying for Covid research to EcoHealth alliance. The company president admits hiring the lab in Wuhan in youtube videos. Whether it is the possibly dangerous gain of function testing or not is still up for debate.
You and I are generally in agreement about the need to investigate, absent the US involved in the gain of function at Wuhan. But the answer to your bolded question is the bolded after. And that’s my point when it comes to Fauci. Yes he made mistakes specifically with the facemasks in the beginning, but for chrissakes it’s a generational pandemic that no one alive has been through before. Add in a POTUS not inclined to listen and it’s a recipe for disaster. But the politics of it now have him completely ostracized by a large faction of our country. To your point he was picked by the last three presidents for a reason. He’s pretty ####### capable is why. Fauci is not the villain here, far from it.
It’s the definition of corruption. We’ve gotten so used to it that it doesn’t even register as a problem anymore.
I don't think he is a villan but he has said things at different times that were somewhat or wholly opposite. The School thing i have seen him say we should have kids in schools, especially after teachers are vaccinated. He should be standing up and saying despite all the guidance from CDC that is pretty much getting some of it's language from the AFT. The FOIA basically showed the CDC took some of the language directly from the AFT emails. Either it is safe for kids to go back to school or not. Fauci should be saying either it is safe or it isn't. Screw the politics or the special interest groups it is either safe or not and if it is safe the force the schools open.
May be?
This seems like the kind of thing that warrants further investigation. The probability of five breakthrough cases occurring in the same little circle by chance is staggeringly small, but then again there are a very large number of little circles out there so maybe we should expect to see one or two events like this if we look across the whole population.
would putting 1,000 into a similar size building for a church service or concert or sporting event been ok then ?Doug B said:
I just laid out the reasons why big-box retailers rightly didn't have to hew to the same capacity requirements as churches, concerts, etc. All "gatherings" weren't thrown into one hat and considered all the same.
Plus, it matter A LOT how these coaches are experiencing their infections. Did they get laid low? Do they just have annoying symptoms that got IDed as COVID only upon a test? Do they feel fine, and would have never known they were infected without a test?
you are justifying the actions and I get that ....but the fact remains that there was massive hypocritical decisions made and the big money businesses won bigtime and small businesses lost bigtime. its insane to say nobody can gather because of the danger ... and then also say with the exception of Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-mart, Costco etc. if it was about saving lives, if it was about large gatherings, Wal-mart and all the others would have been shut down. Those ARE large gatherings - so obviously that's wasn't the issue at all so what was the intent and goal?
How do you think vaccines work? They prime a person's immune system to produce antibodies to a specific pathogen, and in doing so help "train" a person's immune system to make antibodies later in response to that same pathogen.
It's just about impossible to prove a negative like this. It's a logical flaw to ask a question like this.
The JNJ vaccine is an example of this - not spectacular in terms of outright immunity, but reduced case severity to the point that there were no hospitalizations at all. In my mind, that's a great vaccine.
We know that if you get vaccinated, a) the probability that you contract covid-19 is tremendously reduced to something just slightly north of zero, b) the probability that you fall seriously ill to covid-19 is reduced to something indistinguishable from zero, and c) your ability to pass covid-19 on to others is reduced by a very large but as-yet undetermined amount.
The rate at which this is happening is 0.008%, including variants. The vaccine is phenomenally effective. Those that haven't got it should and we should be 100% wide open and back to life as normal.
The part in red is the hang-up. It's that pesky "nuance" thing again.
Except we do know C, because unless some extreme conditions exist like french kissing multiple partners at the same time, you need A first to do C.
actually we don't know that yet
one poster claimed it was impossible. I'd expect proof of that. there are no studies that show that transmission is not possible. as far as the opposite, the studies that exist that i cited have tracked populations, not individuals, so the request for a specific instance was flawed. the response was in direct reply to that. you managed to crack the code.
just the opposite. pretend the vaccine is a gun and the virus is a bad guy trying to break into your house.
Read what I wrote, I’m not saying that patient zero didn’t came from the lab, in fact I’ve always thought it was likely. What I’m saying is that the initial super spreader event happened at the wet market even if patient zero wasn’t there.
Link?
Nationally, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reported only 132 vaccine breakthrough deaths out of the more than 100 million people who have been fully vaccinated. That right there is all you need to know about how effective the vaccines are. The seasonal flu is probably going to be more deadly going forward- even with vaccines.
This is an article from early March. Some of the points it raises are obviously still valid -- for example, while the two-dose vaccines provide very good protection about 10 days or so after the first shot, you're not really fully protected until around two weeks after the second shot. Much of the rest is outdated. We know now that breakthrough cases are extremely rare and pretty much never result in serious illness, and we know that the vaccines substantially reduce (at least) transmission.
CDC: Fully vaccinated people don’t spread COVID-19
You should learn to gather information and think for yourself. Pffft, lolz.
They need to update their facts. I'll address each of their 5 reasons to continue to wear a mask one by one:
While technically true, the breakthrough rate is currently 0.008%.
I appreciate your thoughts. I’ve got my annual physical exam coming up in a few weeks, do you mind if I send you the results? I trust my doctor but I can always use a second opinion.You should learn to gather information and think for yourself. Pffft, lolz.
That article is 3 months old.
1 - It takes time for the vaccine to kick in. Ok fine, wear it 2 weeks after your second shot if you want.
2 - Vaccines do not provide 100% protection.
3 - Vaccinated people might be asymptomatic spreaders. Again while technically true the data show it to be nearly zero, see #2.
4 - We need to protect those the vulnerable that can't get vaccinated. This is hugely misleading, the number of people that can't get the vaccine for medical reasons is essentially zero.
5 - Vaccines aren't widely available. Yes they are.
And remember, the goal was to flatten the curve, not zero people die. If you've jumped on board with the liberal socialist band wagon of saving every single life at all costs then you're going to be wearing masks for the flu and the common cold the rest of your life.
