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Government Response To The Coronavirus (3 Viewers)

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Study should be published in a couple of days.  These scientists are very reputable.  What’s most concerning is that - once again - this information was available almost a full year ago but their findings but were rejected by major scientific journals which were at the time resolute that the virus jumped naturally from bats or other animals to humans.  And even when former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove spoke out publicly saying the scientists' theory should be investigated, the idea was dismissed as 'fake news.'

New study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory
 

 
ekbeats said:
That's not how Wade operates.  He's probably the best Science journalist on the planet, and his pieces reflect a bit of a scientific approach where the evidence is laid out with opinions kept to a minimum. 
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How did you determine this?

Admittedly, I’ve never heard of him. But it seems he’s no stranger to controversy.

 
Doug B said:
Gain-of-function research was impossible before modern technology. But make no mistake that polio pioneers like Albert Sabin and Jonas Salk were walking a tightrope working with live polio viruses in the early 1950s. Accidental lab release of the live virus could have caused a polio outbreak.

Salk's innovation was to use inactivated virions to spur an immune response, while Sabin continued work on weakened live viruses. Both men eventually created working vaccines.
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It’s interesting we’re talking about polio, as arguably the worst adverse event in vaccination history resulted from the its vaccine, the so-called Cutter Incident:

In 1955, some batches of polio vaccine given to the public contained live polio virus, even though they had passed required safety testing. Over 250 cases of polio were attributed to vaccines produced by one company: Cutter Laboratories. This case, which came to be known as the Cutter Incident, resulted in many cases of paralysis. The vaccine was recalled as soon as cases of polio were detected.

The Cutter Incident was a defining moment in the history of vaccine manufacturing and government oversight of vaccines, and led to the creation of a better system of regulating vaccines.  After the government improved this process and increased oversight, polio vaccinations resumed in the fall of 1955.
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Just played b-ball today with a guy who was doing COVID research in Chicago the past 15 months.  Per his research, as of December ~20% of Chicagoland residents had been infected with COVID.  He puts that number at 30-35% as of now.   They have decent survey-based evidence (no link; this was a verbal discussion on a b-ball court) that 50-70% of those who got infected haven’t gotten vaccinated yet.....pair those infected (natural immunity) with those vaccinated and we get really close to a level of immunity that should keep the spread low.....

Anyway.  Just thought it was worth sharing.

 
Doug B said:
Ah, dang. Daily Mail :kicksrock:
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Let's also not forget the other bits of evidence in locating the source - scientists at the Wuhan lab got sick en masse around October 2019; Chinese officials went in to the lab and destroyed all coronavirus samples (yeah, why do this?); and Chinese officials blocked all cell phone traffic in and around the lab in October and November 2019.  

Given this and other evidence we're seeing I put it at about 90% this was a lab leak.  Almost assuredly accidental, but it's all there.

Not even going to touch on the US support of this gain of function research, nor the comments by our bud Fauci in 2012 that such gain of function research was worth the risk of a pandemic.  Nice call, man, nice call.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Just played b-ball today with a guy who was doing COVID research in Chicago the past 15 months.  Per his research, as of December ~20% of Chicagoland residents had been infected with COVID.  He puts that number at 30-35% as of now.   They have decent survey-based evidence (no link; this was a verbal discussion on a b-ball court) that 50-70% of those who got infected haven’t gotten vaccinated yet.....pair those infected (natural immunity) with those vaccinated and we get really close to a level of immunity that should keep the spread low.....

Anyway.  Just thought it was worth sharing.
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That's good to hear that the total % of people with antibodies is reaching 60-70% there, with 50%+ getting vaccines.   I fear for places where that number is only 30% vaccinated and to get to 70%, a lot of people will have to contract covid the hard way. 

 
The Z Machine said:
That's good to hear that the total % of people with antibodies is reaching 60-70% there, with 50%+ getting vaccines.   I fear for places where that number is only 30% vaccinated and to get to 70%, a lot of people will have to contract covid the hard way. 
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Maybe they have already contracted it?

 
The Z Machine said:
Sure, some.  Maybe 35% tops? Stack another 20% on top of those the that get the vaccine before contracting and there's still a big pool of virus naive people out there that could have severe adverse reactions. 
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I don’t think that’s the math though.  The math is closer to 35% with natural immunity plus another 30-35% who already have 1 or 2 doses (who never got COVID).  It means we are getting pretty close to “herd immunity” even though no public health officials want to acknowledge it.

 
Former FDA commissioner says lab leaks 'happen all the time' amid COVID-19 origin scrutiny

Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said Sunday that accidental lab leaks "happen all the time" amid mounting concern regarding the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Gottlieb expressed concern about safety protocols at research labs in the U.S. and abroad during an appearance on CBS' "Face the Nation." The former commissioner said a conclusive determination on where the pandemic originated was critical to prevent deadly outbreaks in the future.

"These kinds of lab leaks happen all the time, actually," Gottlieb said. "Even here in the United States, we’ve had mishaps, and in China, the last six known outbreaks of SARS-1 have been out of labs, including the last known outbreak, which was a pretty extensive outbreak that China initially wouldn’t disclose that it came out of a lab."

Calls for further investigation of the pandemic’s origins have intensified in recent days. Earlier this month, the Wall Street Journal reported three researchers at China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology displayed symptoms severe enough to seek hospital treatment with symptoms consistent with COVID-19 in late 2019. 

President Biden said the intelligence community has yet to determine whether the pandemic began after human contact with infected animals or because of a lab accident. Officials are expected to deliver an updated report on their conclusion within the next few months.

Biden has pledged to make any relevant findings from their investigation public.

Gottlieb called on officials to view the pandemic and lab safety as matters of national security, given the impact of COVID-19.

"It’s important to understand what the possibility is that this came out of a lab so we can focus more international attention on trying to get better inventories around these labs, what they’re doing, better security, make sure they’re properly built," he added. "We need to also look at public health through the lens of national security. This was an asymmetric harm to the United States. COVID hurt the U.S. a lot more than it hurt many other countries."

 
The Z Machine said:
Can someone explain how to "protect" the elderly from catching a novel, airborne, and moderately contagious virus over the course of multiple years?
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stay 100% quarantined and isolated is about as good a plan as any 

but nobody is ever going to do that, and its unhealthy and it isn't living either really

however being in good health is really as good a plan as can be to fight off viruses, a healthy body is very very important

many American's don't have that 

 
GordonGekko said:
VIDEO: The King Scene (1080p): King Henry refuses to surrender to Prince of France •Nov 4, 2019

Scene from The King (2019) by David Michôd: King Henry V (Timothée Chalamet) refuses to surrender to The Dauphin of France (Robert Pattinson).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN-sh_glfhc

VIDEO: Timothée Chalamet and Lily-Rose Depp in The King: their scenes in full •Nov 6, 2019

After winning the Battle of Agincourt, Henry V (Timothée Chalamet) is set to wed the French Princess, Catherine (Lily-Rose Depp) but after an initially cold reception, their love blossoms into a mutual companionship of respect and kindness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_tvjeO_0cU

VIDEO: The King Ending •Nov 11, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYtXA7uFes

********

I would.

War with China is inevitable. If the "narrative" is that China intentionally released COVID19 on the world, many nations will have no choice but to join the fight with the United States. The rank and file people living in those countries will demand it.  Without that "narrative", many might sit out a bloody and expensive and politically toxic war footing.

In order to win a world war with China, the United States would need to eventually invade their mainland on the ground. No half measures. Not with a threat like China and Xi. In order to scale up this type of invasion, you need international allies as strategic footholds to launch offensives.  You can have American Marines fighting street by street in dense attrition based urban warfare alone or with lots of help.. Either way, those streets and cities will need to be taken.

America can't refuse to go down the path of total war and won't be able to find any functional alternative.

The fight is coming. Lots of people are going to die. The decision making tree is now about how many have to die to see the United States survive as a world super power at all. You could care less if the US is a world super power, but that status is why the children of every last person here is going to sleep safe in their beds at night. Make no mistake, without the US as a threat to the world, your kids, or anyone's kids would be no better off than those Uighur children right now in concentration camps. And how are those kids faring? Being forcibly sterilized, being raped and sold into sexual slavery, being brainwashed and tortured and having their organs harvested. And much of America's elite stay silent because those kids are stitching together Nikes and slapping together IPhones and Chinese money in infused all down the chain of America's corporate power structure.

America is already on the path you think is still a choice. This is now a question of how much blood is going to be spilled, no more, no less.
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This post appeared during the week I was gone. I wanted to comment on it because it’s the most disturbing post I think I’ve ever read in this forum. I urge people to read it in its entirety and draw their own conclusions. 

 
Stealthycat said:
stay 100% quarantined and isolated is about as good a plan as any 

but nobody is ever going to do that, and its unhealthy and it isn't living either really

however being in good health is really as good a plan as can be to fight off viruses, a healthy body is very very important

many American's don't have that 
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So, no real way to protect those most vulnerable (elderly, frail, etc.).

 
Alex P Keaton said:
I don’t think that’s the math though.  The math is closer to 35% with natural immunity plus another 30-35% who already have 1 or 2 doses (who never got COVID).  It means we are getting pretty close to “herd immunity” even though no public health officials want to acknowledge it.
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Yep, been saying this for a while.  The virus can't spread like wildfire without a lot more people infected (and gaining immunity naturally) than what our positive test numbers show.  

And masks are pretty much a thing of the past, work lifted the requirements all around for vaccinated people and every public place has replaced their mask mandate signs with unvaccinated people must wear a mask signs.  Nobody enforcing mask use.   :thumbup:

 
tonydead said:
And masks are pretty much a thing of the past, work lifted the requirements all around for vaccinated people and every public place has replaced their mask mandate signs with unvaccinated people must wear a mask signs.  Nobody enforcing mask use.
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Do you think all those unmasked are vaccinated?  If not, do you think it's a good thing that these people are violating the policies of the businesses they frequent?

 
The Z Machine said:
Do you think all those unmasked are vaccinated?
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This question wasn't directed at me but it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I suspect the proportion of non-vaccinated unmasked is probably smaller than you think it is. And I say this mainly for two reasons:

1. The honor system works better than we give it credit for. If it didn't, much of society just wouldn't function.

2. I think political bias has distorted a lot of the perceptions of the unvaccinated. There was a KFF poll this weekend that showed nearly half of the unvaccinated citing fear of missing work as their reason for not being vaccinated. Some people want to believe that the Venn diagram between the unvaccinated and the worst of the Red Hats is a perfect circle. But the data just don't support that.

 
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Murph said:
2. I think political bias has distorted a lot of the perceptions of the unvaccinated. There was a KFF poll this weekend that showed nearly half of the unvaccinated citing fear of missing work as their reason for not being vaccinated. Some people want to believe that the Venn diagram between the unvaccinated and the worst of the Red Hats is a perfect circle. But the data just don't support that.
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I agree a lot with #2.  I know at least one guy at work that hadn't done it because he felt he was "low risk" and didn't want to ask for time off.  Sure, that might be true, but he could contract it, get only mildly ill, and then give it to someone else that is less lucky.  Companies should offer PTO to anyone that wants to get a vaccine shot.

 
Murph said:
Could not agree more. People also need to be able to take time to deal with side effects without fear of losing a paycheck.
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The company I work gave us a week of pandemic leave last year as well as this year.  It can be used for anything pandemic related including just needing a day off to rejuvenate.  This was particularly useful last year when we were locked down.  But it allowed me to take a paid day off after each vaccine shot as the shots made me feel horrible for about a day.  I am grateful for that policy.

 
The Z Machine said:
Do you think all those unmasked are vaccinated?  If not, do you think it's a good thing that these people are violating the policies of the businesses they frequent?
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We're at the point where people should just be worrying about themselves.  I'm vaccinated so if I'm near someone who isn't I'm not worried about it, even if they're maskless.

 
Murph said:
This question wasn't directed at me but it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I suspect the proportion of non-vaccinated unmasked is probably smaller than you think it is. And I say this mainly for two reasons:

1. The honor system works better than we give it credit for. If it didn't, much of society just wouldn't function.

2. I think political bias has distorted a lot of the perceptions of the unvaccinated. There was a KFF poll this weekend that showed nearly half of the unvaccinated citing fear of missing work as their reason for not being vaccinated. Some people want to believe that the Venn diagram between the unvaccinated and the worst of the Red Hats is a perfect circle. But the data just don't support that.
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Saw this in the fruitful FFA thread but they boil down to four kinds basically:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f7671d12c27e40b67ce4400/t/602fb6b16a304f5bc0d5d133/1613739697991/FINAL+Press+Release-Surgo+Ventures+Gen+Pop+Survey+(1).pdf

 
The Z Machine said:
Do you think all those unmasked are vaccinated?  If not, do you think it's a good thing that these people are violating the policies of the businesses they frequent?
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No thought of violations required. The policy is to put up a sign notifying patrons of the CDC "guidelines". Nothing is keeping businesses from enforcing mandatory masks if they want, that's in the "guidelines" too. 

And  you went out of your way to delete the first half of of my post because you want to conveniently ignore that relavant point. 

 
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Anthony Fauci’s pandemic emails. Fauci’s correspondence from March and April 2020, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, offers a peek into his world during the frantic early days of the coronavirus crisis. (Washington Post, 6/1/2021)

...

Why are people talking about Dr Anthony Fauci's emails? (BBC, 6/2/2021)

The Fauci Ink Blot Test

Analysis by Tara McKelvey, BBC White House reporter

Fauci's emails are like a Rorschach ink blot: what you see in them reveals more about you than the ink blot, or, in this case, the emails.

For Trump supporters I know in small Kansas towns and other rural areas, Fauci is a villain. He broadcasts conflicting messages about the virus, these Republicans say, and twists science. They also say that he undermined then-President Trump.

These conservatives refused to wear masks, even during the worst days of the pandemic, because, they said, the scientific guidelines changed constantly, and Fauci had flip-flopped.

His emails will reinforce their opinions. Fauci did indeed change his mind about health guidance, such as the wearing of masks. He told someone in February 2020 they did not need to wear a mask while travelling. Later, he encouraged people to wear them.

In contrast, for liberals in the Midwest and in other regions, Fauci is a hero. His emails reinforce their views, showing he changed his mind about what people should do to fight the virus, depending upon the scientific data, and not on what Trump wanted people to hear.
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-fish- said:
I guess it's because it's the BBC, but it seems weird to try to contrast "small Kansas towns" against "the Midwest."
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For a lot of people, even Americans, "the Midwest" is centered on the large cities stringing from Minneapolis/St. Paul through Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Cleveland.

I remember in my social studies textbooks in elementary school, The Midwest (basically, Big 10 country) was taught to be a separate region from The Great Plains (Oklahoma up through to North Dakota).

 
John123 said:
Fauci taking a beating today. 
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Doesn't seem to be a bipartisan beating, though, if this article is a good overview:

Fauci emails spark flood of backlash: 'Needs to stop playing games'
Sens. Rand Paul and Tom Cotton, two of Fauci's harshest critics, leading criticism over emails (Fox News, 6/2/2021)

...

Something I read in that article that I found interesting:

Fauci and other public health experts said early in the pandemic that the public should not buy masks so that hospitals could have enough and because there was not conclusive science that they worked for people who were not infected with the virus. The major factor in the changed mask recommendation, former Surgeon General Jerome Adams said, was the percentage of COVID infections that are asymptomatic. 

"What has changed in our recommendation?" Adams said in a White House briefing in July. "We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms."
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Adams White House briefing in July 2020 got practically no run at the time.

 
The same people that believe in 'jewish space lasers' will find something in these emails but there couldn't be anything less there.  

For a normal person there is nothing in those emails that hurts him.  It's remarkable how polite and controlled his emails are.  

 
killface said:
The same people that believe in 'jewish space lasers' will find something in these emails but there couldn't be anything less there.  

For a normal person there is nothing in those emails that hurts him.  It's remarkable how polite and controlled his emails are.  
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Link to the emails?

 
So yesterday Fauci's book and presale was announced.  Today, after the e-mails release all the book sites have removed it.  Wonder if what's in the book doesn't jibe with what's in the e-mails?  Hmmm.........Too bad Cuomo made millions on his book before he was found to be a fraud.

 
John123 said:
So yesterday Fauci's book and presale was announced.  Today, after the e-mails release all the book sites have removed it.  Wonder if what's in the book doesn't jibe with what's in the e-mails?  Hmmm.........Too bad Cuomo made millions on his book before he was found to be a fraud.
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It's not really "Fauci's book."   It's 80 pages of his letters and speeches, and he receives no money from it.  It's a companion piece to a National Geographic documentary, and they said it was their mistake.   He doesn't get any money from the documentary either.

Another perfectly good conspiracy theory down the tubes.

 
Doug B said:
Scroll up to my "Anthony Fauci's p

Doug B said:
Scroll up to my "Anthony Fauci's pandemic emails" link for a selection of 20 or so from the Washington Post. And here's more from Buzzfeed.

Thousands of email covering a several-month span were disseminated to these news outlets via FOIA. I've not seen all of them collected into one place for public review.
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andemic emails" link for a selection of 20 or so from the Washington Post. And here's more from Buzzfeed.

Thousands of email covering a several-month span were disseminated to these news outlets via FOIA. I've not seen all of them collected into one place for public review.
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Thanks, I dont subscribe to WaPo and I'm wondering how anyone can form an honest opinion of the 622 pages (now I'm seeing 3200?) of emails by looking at a select few chosen by news outlets that are far left leaning on their political bias.  Anyone have a link to the whole batch?  I like to form my own opinion. 

 
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So it sure looks like Fauci will have to be relieved of his duties.  Who will replace him?  Who should all of us trust going forward?  This is so troublesome.  Biden needs to be strong and act quickly with Fauci.

 
Summer Wheat said:
So it sure looks like Fauci will have to be relieved of his duties.  Who will replace him?  Who should all of us trust going forward?  This is so troublesome.  Biden needs to be strong and act quickly with Fauci.
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Where are you reading that Fauci will be relieved of his duties? I’m not seeing any inkling of that. 

 
The folks who are calling for Fauci to be fired are the same ones who have been calling for it for nearly a year now: far right conservatives with a political agenda. I have yet to hear another public health expert, or anyone with any real knowledge of what Fauci does, complain about him. To the contrary they all seem to regard him as a hero. So do I. 

 
By Jan 2020 people were already telling Fauci the virus looked "potentially engineered" and was "inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory"

 
killface said:
The same people that believe in 'jewish space lasers' will find something in these emails but there couldn't be anything less there.  

For a normal person there is nothing in those emails that hurts him.  It's remarkable how polite and controlled his emails are.  
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I am no fauci fan and I thought the emails(at least in my 8 minutes of reading) made him look better. Just the sheer volume was pretty insane. No early bird suppers followed by a nap for that 80 year old. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
I am no fauci fan and I thought the emails(at least in my 8 minutes of reading) made him look better. Just the sheer volume was pretty insane. No early bird suppers followed by a nap for that 80 year old. 
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I was impressed honestly too.  We all tend to send that email that could be damaging every once in awhile.  He seemed to avoid it and was remarkably polite in doing so

 
So at the time, he believed that it was not engineered in a lab, which we still don't know that it was.  And he believed that masks wouldn't be effective, until he gained more knowledge that they would be.

So what am I missing?  What is so damning about the emails?  It's only bad if he purposefully lied, not gave his opinion at the time with the available knowledge he had at the time

 
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