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Gramatica to "replace" Vinatieri in NE? (1 Viewer)

Mike Herman

Footballguy
Paul Edinger was in Foxboro yesterday. His agent, Ken Harris, initiated contact with the Pats last week. “In my mind, there are two clutch, cold-weather kickers available, Adam and Paul,” Harris said recently. “You can’t argue with Vanderjagt’s career percentage, but Paul is the youngest leg out there and he’s done it in the cold.”

Edinger has cold-weather experience thanks to five seasons in Chicago. He spent last year in Minnesota, hitting three game-winners for the Vikings, including a record 56-yarder with no time left to beat Green Bay on Oct. 23. The 28-year-old has made 75 percent of his kicks in his career. His best season came in 2001 with the Bears when he scored 112 points and converted 26-of-31 field goals (83.9 percent).
linkEdinger has now lost a job two consecutive years, with a poor field goal percentage and very poor kickoffs.

 
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I'm seeing quite a few articles suggesting that the only kickers left are Vanderjagt and Edinger. That's a very incomplete list.

FREE AGENTS

Todd Peterson: suspiciously quiet so far

Paul Edinger: making the rounds

Josh Brown (RFA)

Aaron Elling (RFA)

SOON/EVENTUALLY/RUMORED TO BE AVAILABLE

Jeff Chandler

Nick Novak

Shaun Suisham

John Hall

Olindo Mare



LURKING IN NFL EUROPE (xp, fg, long, points)

Xavier Beitia (TB) 3/3, 2/2, 36, 9

David Kimball (OAK) 0/0, 2/3, 49, 6

Ola Kimrin (MIA) 1/1, 1/4, 42, 4

Tyler Jones (WAS) 1/1, 1/1, 32, 4

Ryan Killeen (SEA) 3/3, 0/0, 0, 3

Tim Duncan (OAK) 2/2, 0/1, 0, 2

LURKING IN THE AFL (xp, fg, long, %, points)

Remy Hamilton 44/48, 17/20, 42, 0.850, 95

Bill Gramatica 51/56, 7/15, 47, 0.467, 72

Todd France 43/47, 9/17, 51, 0.529, 70

Jay Taylor 44/46, 8/15, 43, 0.533, 68

OUT OF WORK

Martin Gramatica (signed by NE, but will have to compete)

Billy Cundiff (signed by GB, but rumored to be temporary)

Jose Cortez

Doug Brien

Seth Marler

Morten Andersen

 
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Josh Brown could be interesting...

| Year TM | Made ATT PCT | Made ATT | Points |

+----------+------------------+------------+--------+

| 2003 sea | 22 30 73.3 | 48 48 | 114 |

| 2004 sea | 23 25 92.0 | 40 40 | 109 |

| 2005 sea | 20 27 74.1 | 58 59 | 118 |

+----------+------------------+------------+--------+

| TOTAL | 65 82 79.3 | 146 147 | 341

RFA - Restricted free agents are players who have completed three accrued seasons of service and whose contracts have expired. They have received qualifying offers from their old clubs and are free to negotiate with any club until April 21, at which time their rights revert to their original club. If a player accepts an offer from a new club, the old club will have the right to match the offer and retain the player. If the old club elects not to match the offer, it may receive draft-choice compensation depending on the level of the qualifying offer made to the player.

 
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I agree Brown would be a decent replacement and I could live with Vandy for a year or 2. I think he would toe the line in the Pats clubhouse.

 
*The two big names being mentioned are Vandy and Edinger.

*If the Pats were to lure Brown away from Seattle it would probably take a good sized contract for the Hawks not to match. Since they weren't willing to go the distance on AV that seems like a stretch. Brown can kick outdoors and is a lot younger than AV. So if this were to happen it would mean the Pats were concerned about AV's age and back. Yet, with the way the Pats are conducting business this offseason I'm not sure this type of move follows suit.

 
No way do I want Vandy to be the future kicker, not do I think it would happen. He has no presence in the clutch kicking game. How soon we all forget his gresat kick against Pitt this past playoff game. Wide right, by about thirty yards. Second of all, he isn't an outside kicker, he is dependent on warm, indoor turf kind of weather. And last of all, he is a sore in the locker room.

Thus being said, I am suprised by this whole AV deal. He was offered to be the highest paid kicker in the league and he is a legend in NE. He had great endorsement deals and must of had a blast here, why would anyone want to leave that? Was it more about just a fat paycheck? Sounds crazy to me. Maybe Prez Bill/Vice Pioli see something in AV that we don't see, like an injury that may linger or someone that has his touch. They are $20milly under the cap, why wouldn't keep a guy like AV?

Any thoughts?

 
No way do I want Vandy to be the future kicker, not do I think it would happen. He has no presence in the clutch kicking game. How soon we all forget his gresat kick against Pitt this past playoff game. Wide right, by about thirty yards. Second of all, he isn't an outside kicker, he is dependent on warm, indoor turf kind of weather. And last of all, he is a sore in the locker room.

Thus being said, I am suprised by this whole AV deal. He was offered to be the highest paid kicker in the league and he is a legend in NE. He had great endorsement deals and must of had a blast here, why would anyone want to leave that? Was it more about just a fat paycheck? Sounds crazy to me. Maybe Prez Bill/Vice Pioli see something in AV that we don't see, like an injury that may linger or someone that has his touch. They are $20milly under the cap, why wouldn't keep a guy like AV?

Any thoughts?
Here's one writers take on the situation:
Vinatieri, who privately was ticked off last season by the Patriots' lack of initiative in trying to sign him to a contract extension, had apparently made up his mind to leave as long as there was a bidder that met his criteria. And the Colts, who Vinatieri visited after leaving Green Bay without a contract, met all of them. With Peyton Manning at quarterback and an improved defense, they figure to remain a contender for years. They play their home games indoors and their coach, Tony Dungy, is beloved by his players as much for his emotional warmth as for his mastery of X's and O's.

Belichick has great admiration and respect for Vinatieri. But what Belichick didn't do, to Vinatieri's way of thinking, was make Vinatieri feel special. To do that, all Belichick had to do last season was make Vinatieri a big contract offer that would have let Vinatieri know how special he was to Belichick and the Patriots. But Belichick doesn't work like that. Because the owners and players didn't sign an extension of their collective bargaining agreement until two weeks ago, each team played the 2005 season knowing that if no CBA extension was worked out, 2007 would be an uncapped year. Because of that, Belichick seemed leery of signing any of his impending big ticket free agents to contract extensions. After all he'd done for his team, for his coach, all Vinatieri wanted was to feel the kind of love a gentlemanly, law-abiding, future Hall of Famer warrants.
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Plan B: sign another veteran free agent. Former Vikings kicker Paul Edinger was in Foxborough for a visit and former Colts kicker Mike Vanderjagt is scheduled to arrive shortly.

Plan C could be a lot of different things, but likely is aimed at poaching another club's kicker. Josh Brown is a restricted free agent in Seattle. He could be acquired if the Patriots were willing to overspend to pry him away from the Seahawks, with Seattle getting a draft pick for compensation if they decide not to match any offer New England makes. The problem is, Seattle has a load of cap space, and is more willing to part with some of it to keep a player than the Patriots appear to be.

The other option in plan C is Miami kicker Olindo Mare, who apparently has been asked to take a pay cut by the Dolphins and balked. Mare, if he does indeed stick to his guns and force his release, will likely draw interest from not only the Patriots, Packer and Cowboys, but other teams still looking for a kicker upgrade including Atlanta and Chicago.
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Paul Edinger was in Foxboro yesterday. His agent, Ken Harris, initiated contact with the Pats last week. “In my mind, there are two clutch, cold-weather kickers available, Adam and Paul,” Harris said recently. “You can’t argue with Vanderjagt’s career percentage, but Paul is the youngest leg out there and he’s done it in the cold.”

Edinger has cold-weather experience thanks to five seasons in Chicago. He spent last year in Minnesota, hitting three game-winners for the Vikings, including a record 56-yarder with no time left to beat Green Bay on Oct. 23. The 28-year-old has made 75 percent of his kicks in his career. His best season came in 2001 with the Bears when he scored 112 points and converted 26-of-31 field goals (83.9 percent).
linkEdinger has now lost a job two consecutive years, with a poor field goal percentage and very poor kickoffs.
Oh.....PLEASE let this happen. I inked Edinger to a 2 year deal in my Dynasty league because he was cheap thinking that in a dome he would be money instead of the wind at Soldier Field. If he doesn't sign with someone I have to cut him and eat his salary as well as the salary of his replacement on my squad :wall:
 
he isn't an outside kicker, he is dependent on warm, indoor turf kind of weather.

Any thoughts?
Funny how people jump to that conclusion just because his home stadium is a dome.Home 86.6 (116/164)

Away 88.6 (101/114)

Indoors 87.6 (127/145)

Outdoors 87.4 (90/103)

Turf 88.2 (149/169)

Grass 86.1 (68/79)

Precip 100 (8/8)

Windy 84.4 (27/32)

Cold 100 (8/8)

Career Split Stats

 
With Vandy's attitude problems, I'd be mildly surprised if the Pats signed him. He's a great kicker (except when he chokes in the playoffs), and definitely the best one available in FA.

Edinger? Ick... NE would be reaching with him..

 
I'm guessing the Pats find a replacement from out of nowhere and they don't ante up for a mediocre option that wants a fair amount of money. I'm thinking they either draft a kicker or find some non-drafted free agent to look at.

 
I'm guessing the Pats find a replacement from out of nowhere and they don't ante up for a mediocre option that wants a fair amount of money. I'm thinking they either draft a kicker or find some non-drafted free agent to look at.
Flash back 10 years ago... (from boston.com)Could the Patriots do what Bill Parcells did 10 years ago, when he went with an unknown rookie free agent kicker named Vinatieri? Then-special teams coach Mike Sweatman (now with the Giants) watched tape of Vinatieri in Europe and was convinced the Patriots should go with a young kicker. This year, the Patriots could wait until late in the draft and pluck any one of three top college kickers such as Stephen Gostkowski from Memphis, Jonathan Scifres from Southwest Missouri State, or Josh Huston from Ohio State. They could also look to NFL Europe for a kicker. The Jets drafted Mike Nugent in the second round last season.

 
What about doug flutie? He can drop kick too!

Seriously, I think the dolphins will now have to keep Mare just to keep him away from new england.

 
The field of free-agent kickers has thinned, and the Packers are left to compete for a second-tier free agent or take their chances spending the offseason and training camp trying out untested young kickers, veteran discards and waiting for decent prospects to get cut by other teams during training camp. The top remaining kickers in free agency are Paul Edinger, who was with Minnesota last year, and Todd Peterson, who was with Atlanta. Peterson made 23 of 25 field goals last year and is a free agent, but his range is so limited, he probably isn’t a candidate for the Packers’ job. The Packers have interest in Edinger, who already has visited New England. The Packers have no kickers on their roster, but it appears they might sign former Dallas kicker Billy Cundiff in the near future so they have one for offseason workouts, which have begun.

In the meantime, Edinger remains a candidate, though New England also might try to sign him to replace Vinatieri. The 28-year-old Edinger hasn’t visited the Packers, but his agent, Ken Harris, said he’s been talking to the Packers about bringing his client in sometime after next week’s NFL owners meetings in Orlando, Fla. Those meetings run Sunday through Wednesday, and all of the Packers’ top officials, including Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy, will be attending. Edinger’s weakness is kickoffs, where he lacks both distance and hang time, though the Vikings finished in the middle of the league (16th) in average starting position for their opponents after kickoffs last season. “Somebody said he missed some kicks last year,” said Mike Stock, the Packers’ new special-teams coach. “But I know he made two (to beat the Packers). One was what, a (56)-yarder? Let me say this, that little son of gun can kick. I’m impressed with him. I worked him out when he was coming out of Michigan State. I was worried about his kickoffs, and that’s always going to be a problem with him because he doesn’t kick it quite as deep and he doesn’t get all the hang time that you’d like to have. But he’s got a good leg and he makes a lot of field goals.”

Even if they sign Cundiff, though, the Packers surely will bring in competition and also keep their eyes on the waiver wire all offseason and throughout training camp. Earlier in the offseason, Stock scouted NFL Europe training camp in Florida and will monitor several kickers’ performances in that league, including Oakland’s David Kimball, whose only chance of winning a roster spot with the Raiders is if Sebastian Janikowski gets injured. This year’s rookie class doesn’t have any stud prospects — there might not be a draftable kicker in the group — though there’s no knowing whether someone might emerge in an NFL camp. Southwest Missouri State’s Jon Scifres, whose brother, Mike, is San Diego’s punter, is perhaps the best prospect and might be a second-day draft pick. Ohio State’s Josh Huston, Memphis’ Stephen Gostkowski and Virginia’s Connor Hughes are the other top prospects.
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Vanderjagt has now signed with the Cowboys ...

I am not sure why you would allow Vinatieri [the best clutch kicker in the past 10 years] to go ... especially if you are going to sign a high profile free agent as his replacement.

My guess is that as David Yudkin has said, they already have either a collegiate in mind or a low profile free agent.

Still not sure why the Patriots brass would do this though ... Games are won and lost by these guys legs and he was $.

 
Green Bay is expected to be the next stop for kicker Paul Edinger, who visited New England on Tuesday.
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Ugh.If the Packers signed Edinger that means they essentially would have traded Longwell to the Vikings for Edinger. Safe to say the Vikings would make out a helluva lot better in that trade.

I would love to see the Packers make a run at Josh Brown. He's a terrific kicker. However, given his RFA status it would likely take a strong offer for the Seahawks not to match and Green Bay GM Ted Thompson has made it pretty clear so far he's not interested in spending much of the Packers' $30+ million they have under the cap.

I think he believes if he saves it it'll grow interest.

 
Green Bay is expected to be the next stop for kicker Paul Edinger, who visited New England on Tuesday.
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Ugh.If the Packers signed Edinger that means they essentially would have traded Longwell to the Vikings for Edinger. Safe to say the Vikings would make out a helluva lot better in that trade.

I would love to see the Packers make a run at Josh Brown. He's a terrific kicker. However, given his RFA status it would likely take a strong offer for the Seahawks not to match and Green Bay GM Ted Thompson has made it pretty clear so far he's not interested in spending much of the Packers' $30+ million they have under the cap.

I think he believes if he saves it it'll grow interest.
It isn't surprising that Thompson hasn't done much yet with FA signings. He had a reputation before he came to Green Bay that he didn't like to be aggressive in free agency.
 
Green Bay is expected to be the next stop for kicker Paul Edinger, who visited New England on Tuesday.
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Ugh.If the Packers signed Edinger that means they essentially would have traded Longwell to the Vikings for Edinger. Safe to say the Vikings would make out a helluva lot better in that trade.

I would love to see the Packers make a run at Josh Brown. He's a terrific kicker. However, given his RFA status it would likely take a strong offer for the Seahawks not to match and Green Bay GM Ted Thompson has made it pretty clear so far he's not interested in spending much of the Packers' $30+ million they have under the cap.

I think he believes if he saves it it'll grow interest.
It isn't surprising that Thompson hasn't done much yet with FA signings. He had a reputation before he came to Green Bay that he didn't like to be aggressive in free agency.
I know and that's what's so frustrating. I don't have a problem with the concept of building through the draft and spending wisely in free agency rather than foolishly overpaying. But when you have only 5 draft picks, massive holes in your talent base (especially defensively) and over $30M in cap room to spend it's frustrating watching the GM take that approach. You can spend without spending foolishly. So far, Thompson hasn't shown much of an interest in spending at all. And given how far the Packers have to go just to be an average team that's more than a little troubling.
 
Green Bay is expected to be the next stop for kicker Paul Edinger, who visited New England on Tuesday.
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Ugh.If the Packers signed Edinger that means they essentially would have traded Longwell to the Vikings for Edinger. Safe to say the Vikings would make out a helluva lot better in that trade.

I would love to see the Packers make a run at Josh Brown. He's a terrific kicker. However, given his RFA status it would likely take a strong offer for the Seahawks not to match and Green Bay GM Ted Thompson has made it pretty clear so far he's not interested in spending much of the Packers' $30+ million they have under the cap.

I think he believes if he saves it it'll grow interest.
It isn't surprising that Thompson hasn't done much yet with FA signings. He had a reputation before he came to Green Bay that he didn't like to be aggressive in free agency.
I know and that's what's so frustrating. I don't have a problem with the concept of building through the draft and spending wisely in free agency rather than foolishly overpaying. But when you have only 5 draft picks, massive holes in your talent base (especially defensively) and over $30M in cap room to spend it's frustrating watching the GM take that approach. You can spend without spending foolishly. So far, Thompson hasn't shown much of an interest in spending at all. And given how far the Packers have to go just to be an average team that's more than a little troubling.
I agree!I did read that the Packers are one of the teams trying to sign Charles Woodson.

 
Green Bay is expected to be the next stop for kicker Paul Edinger, who visited New England on Tuesday.
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Ugh.If the Packers signed Edinger that means they essentially would have traded Longwell to the Vikings for Edinger. Safe to say the Vikings would make out a helluva lot better in that trade.

I would love to see the Packers make a run at Josh Brown. He's a terrific kicker. However, given his RFA status it would likely take a strong offer for the Seahawks not to match and Green Bay GM Ted Thompson has made it pretty clear so far he's not interested in spending much of the Packers' $30+ million they have under the cap.

I think he believes if he saves it it'll grow interest.
It isn't surprising that Thompson hasn't done much yet with FA signings. He had a reputation before he came to Green Bay that he didn't like to be aggressive in free agency.
I know and that's what's so frustrating. I don't have a problem with the concept of building through the draft and spending wisely in free agency rather than foolishly overpaying. But when you have only 5 draft picks, massive holes in your talent base (especially defensively) and over $30M in cap room to spend it's frustrating watching the GM take that approach. You can spend without spending foolishly. So far, Thompson hasn't shown much of an interest in spending at all. And given how far the Packers have to go just to be an average team that's more than a little troubling.
I agree!I did read that the Packers are one of the teams trying to sign Charles Woodson.
I've heard a few talks on this too. Sounds like a lot more than just speculation/rumors right now.
 
A friend of Mike Stock's, the Packers' special teams coordinator, described the veteran coach as upset with the organization's decisions regarding kickers. The Packers have had conversations regarding Seattle's Josh Brown but so far no visit has been scheduled.
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Saturday morning updates:

Mike Vanderjagt never visited the Patriots, and it’s unclear how interested the team actually was, despite published comments from agent Gil Scott suggesting they were in the mix. With Vanderjagt gone, Paul Edinger is the biggest free agent kicker left. Agent Ken Harris spoke briefly with the Patriots yesterday, but the team has yet to make a proposal. Edinger plans to visit Green Bay next week.
link
Stephen Gostkowski, the UofM's career-best placekicker, had a great workout with the Miami Dolphins on Tuesday at the Liberty Bowl and also kicked for scouts on Friday. He has a workout scheduled with the Packers and Cowboys next week.
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There are also six kickers who performed in NFL Europe, the most impressive and likely the most sought-after will be former Penn State kickoff man Dave Kimball.

Could he be the next Vinatieri? ''I would never want to compare myself to Adam or anyone else," said Kimball yesterday from Frankfurt, where he was 2 for 3 on field goals, including a 49-yarder, in his first game for the Galaxy last week. ''I know Adam Vinatieri and [Philadelphia's] David Akers both came from this league. If it gives me that type of exposure, that would be great. That's what I'm here for -- to improve and show what I'm capable of doing."

Kimball, 24, was a seventh-round pick of the Colts in 2004. He was released and signed with the Giants, who kept him in their camp last season. He's currently on the Raiders' roster, but with Sebastian Janikowski firmly entrenched in the No. 1 job, it's unlikely Kimball would stick in Oakland unless he lands on the practice squad. The Patriots could trade for him, wait until he's released, or sign him off the Raiders' practice squad. The Packers are reportedly interested in Kimball even after they agreed to terms with former Cowboys kicker Billy Cundiff.

If nothing else, Kimball could be a very good kickoff man, which some teams now carry in addition to the field goal specialists. But Kimball is trying to shed the image of big-leg kicker who lacks accuracy.
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Billy Cundiff became available when he was released by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers earlier this week. The Packers pounced, especially after Adam Vinatieri joined the Indianapolis Colts and Vanderjagt chose the Dallas Cowboys. Cundiff was signed by Tampa Bay this off-season but spent all four seasons with the Cowboys. For his career, he is 60 of 82 (73.2 percent) on field goals. His best season came in 2003, his second season, when he made 23 of 29 attempts (79.3 percent), including 3 of 5 from 50 yards and beyond. Last year, however, he injured a hip flexor during training camp, was released, then re-signed at midseason. He made 5 of 8 attempts, including from 56 yards, but was cut late in the season after a field-goal attempt was blocked by Carolina. While Cundiff isn’t in former kicker Ryan Longwell’s department when it comes to accuracy, he is one of the better kickoff men in the league. Last year, his average kickoff got inside the 7-yard line.
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Stephen Gostkowski is my pick to actually replace Longwell... Cundiff will not make it to the regular season.

 
Stephen Gostkowski is my pick to actually replace Longwell... Cundiff will not make it to the regular season.
The Pats have extra third and fourth round picks...the rumor mill is that the kickers this year might not go till the fifth round. I could see the Pats using a 4th rounder to secure a kicker that they have targeted. :2cents:

 
FREE AGENTS

Todd Peterson: suspiciously quiet so far :confused:

Paul Edinger: making the rounds :X :X :X

Josh Brown (RFA) :thumbup:

Aaron Elling (RFA) :X :X :X

 
*If the Pats were to lure Brown away from Seattle it would probably take a good sized contract for the Hawks not to match. Since they weren't willing to go the distance on AV that seems like a stretch. Brown can kick outdoors and is a lot younger than AV. So if this were to happen it would mean the Pats were concerned about AV's age and back. Yet, with the way the Pats are conducting business this offseason I'm not sure this type of move follows suit.
Poisen Pill contract?"If the city Brown plays for in 2006 gets less than Xft of snow then Brown gets a bonus of $50mil."

 
I think the pats will grab edinger, and the packers will grab peterson.
Doubt it now...with Cundiff in...they have a body there...decide whether to draft a kicker...or bring in an arena league or NFLE guy...
 
Some Sunday morning light reading:

Last week, there was much debate on talking-head radio about the defection of Vinatieri, who left for more money and a place where he felt wanted. It was fascinating to listen to the Friends of Bill, who once fawned over Vinatieri while mocking a guy they called ''Mike Vanderjerk," explain how suddenly the man was now ''Mr. Vanderjagt" and he was a better kicker than Vinatieri.

Vinatieri was suddenly the 19th-rated kicker in the league while Vanderjagt was sixth. Vinatieri's kickoffs were no longer deep enough. His field goals weren't long enough. His consistent conversions of every big kick since 1999 were ancient history, even though he did it twice more last season. Conveniently, the fact that Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard kick indoors on his home field with a playoff game on the line against the Steelers was downplayed, as was the fact that, regardless of how deep Vinatieri's kickoffs went, they went deeper than those of Vanderjagt, who doesn't kick off at all. The FOBs even talked about Vinatieri's age, as if 34 were decrepit. Vanderjagt is 36, but who's counting if he's coming to Foxborough?

They didn't talk about the fact that only one kicker among the top 19 scorers attempted fewer field goals than Vinatieri or that Vanderjagt kicked 11 more extra points, which was nearly half the difference between them. They did talk about how Vinatieri was now overpaid, because we all know no one in the NFL except Scott Pioli can add and subtract. Then Vanderjagt signed with Dallas and he was back to being Vanderjerk again.
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i hope it is mike vanderjagt as he was released by tony dungy
And was signed by Dallas how many days ago? Get with the times! :P The Pats never were going after Vanderjact.

 
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Some Sunday morning light reading:

Last week, there was much debate on talking-head radio about the defection of Vinatieri, who left for more money and a place where he felt wanted. It was fascinating to listen to the Friends of Bill, who once fawned over Vinatieri while mocking a guy they called ''Mike Vanderjerk," explain how suddenly the man was now ''Mr. Vanderjagt" and he was a better kicker than Vinatieri.

Vinatieri was suddenly the 19th-rated kicker in the league while Vanderjagt was sixth. Vinatieri's kickoffs were no longer deep enough. His field goals weren't long enough. His consistent conversions of every big kick since 1999 were ancient history, even though he did it twice more last season. Conveniently, the fact that Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard kick indoors on his home field with a playoff game on the line against the Steelers was downplayed, as was the fact that, regardless of how deep Vinatieri's kickoffs went, they went deeper than those of Vanderjagt, who doesn't kick off at all. The FOBs even talked about Vinatieri's age, as if 34 were decrepit. Vanderjagt is 36, but who's counting if he's coming to Foxborough?

They didn't talk about the fact that only one kicker among the top 19 scorers attempted fewer field goals than Vinatieri or that Vanderjagt kicked 11 more extra points, which was nearly half the difference between them. They did talk about how Vinatieri was now overpaid, because we all know no one in the NFL except Scott Pioli can add and subtract. Then Vanderjagt signed with Dallas and he was back to being Vanderjerk again.
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You do realize that Ron Borges is well-known to have a deep and abiding hatred for Bill Belichick, right?Of course there's been a ton of speculation around here about why they let Vinatieri walk. The Pats system is always about 'slots' for allotted money at every position. They had promised Vinatieri last year that he wouldn't be franchised again, and they kept their promise. But while the contracts offered weren't all that different on the surface, Indy was willing to provide much more of it guaranteed. So Vinatieri went were the money was.

And Vanderjagt was never coming here. Not a chance.

 
Some Sunday morning light reading:

Last week, there was much debate on talking-head radio about the defection of Vinatieri, who left for more money and a place where he felt wanted. It was fascinating to listen to the Friends of Bill, who once fawned over Vinatieri while mocking a guy they called ''Mike Vanderjerk," explain how suddenly the man was now ''Mr. Vanderjagt" and he was a better kicker than Vinatieri.

Vinatieri was suddenly the 19th-rated kicker in the league while Vanderjagt was sixth. Vinatieri's kickoffs were no longer deep enough. His field goals weren't long enough. His consistent conversions of every big kick since 1999 were ancient history, even though he did it twice more last season. Conveniently, the fact that Vanderjagt missed a 46-yard kick indoors on his home field with a playoff game on the line against the Steelers was downplayed, as was the fact that, regardless of how deep Vinatieri's kickoffs went, they went deeper than those of Vanderjagt, who doesn't kick off at all. The FOBs even talked about Vinatieri's age, as if 34 were decrepit. Vanderjagt is 36, but who's counting if he's coming to Foxborough?

They didn't talk about the fact that only one kicker among the top 19 scorers attempted fewer field goals than Vinatieri or that Vanderjagt kicked 11 more extra points, which was nearly half the difference between them. They did talk about how Vinatieri was now overpaid, because we all know no one in the NFL except Scott Pioli can add and subtract. Then Vanderjagt signed with Dallas and he was back to being Vanderjerk again.
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You do realize that Ron Borges is well-known to have a deep and abiding hatred for Bill Belichick, right?Of course there's been a ton of speculation around here about why they let Vinatieri walk. The Pats system is always about 'slots' for allotted money at every position. They had promised Vinatieri last year that he wouldn't be franchised again, and they kept their promise. But while the contracts offered weren't all that different on the surface, Indy was willing to provide much more of it guaranteed. So Vinatieri went were the money was.

And Vanderjagt was never coming here. Not a chance.
Ron Borges is an arrogant jerk. His hatred for BB and the Pats continues to grow. The fact he has been so wrong about them on almost every issue eats at him and he is determined to take shots at them regardless of what the topic is. I love how he has become a joke on WEEI and fodder for the Whiner Line.Remember how smug Borges was when he was saying launching Bledsoe for Brady was a bad decision. I loved how he acted like he knew so much more than everyone else. Great call on that one Ron. I wish he would just go back to covering the Raiders because his manlove for Al Davis is blinding. Than again it really doesn't matter because I refuse to spend a dime on that piece of trash known as the Boston Globe.

 
If any teams were keeping an eye on Tim Duncan (NFLE, Cologne Centurions), they may no longer being doing so after he missed 4 FGs this past weekend. He was wide right from 24, 37, and 44 yards. He also had a 46 yard attempt blocked and returned for a TD.

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The Green Bay Packers have their first kicker of the post-Ryan Longwell era, but Billy Cundiff probably won't be the last. The team signed Cundiff, ensuring they'll have someone to kick at their two May minicamps, but that doesn't mean the team has found its man after losing Longwell.

In fact, one NFL source said the club has an interest in former University of Minnesota kicker Rhys Lloyd. Like many kickers who struggle to get their foot in the NFL door out of college, Lloyd was out of football in 2005 after completing his college eligibility. He has a very strong leg and was in the Baltimore Ravens' camp last year trying to make the team as a kickoff specialist, but was cut in late August. A former English rugby player, Lloyd was the Golden Gophers' punter and kicker his junior and senior years. In 2003, he made 14 of 18 field goal attempts, including two winners, one of which was against the University of Wisconsin; in 2004, he made 12 of 18 attempts.

The Packers do not have a sixth- or seventh-round pick in the April draft, so it would seem unlikely they would use one of their five picks on a kicker. Southwest Missouri State's Jon Scifres, Ohio State's Josh Huston, Memphis' Stephen Gostkowski and Virginia's Connor Hughes are among the top prospects available in the draft.
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Isn't John Hall on his way out the door in Washington? Or has he already been released. I heard he was gonna be cut or was cut.

 
Isn't John Hall on his way out the door in Washington? Or has he already been released. I heard he was gonna be cut or was cut.
He's still with the team, but has been mentioned as a potential cap victim:
Washington is at $97.574 million, leaving $4.426 million to spend on adding a starting linebacker to replace Arrington with room for: its six draft choices (a moderately expensive second-rounder and five cheap, low-round picks); the final two roster spots, which count against the cap once the season starts; the eight-man practice squad; and a reserve fund for replacing injured players this fall. And if the Redskins need more savings, they could wait until June (when only a pro-rated share of signing bonuses counts against the cap for former players) and cut Wynn (saving $1.5 million), oft-injured kicker John Hall ($1.5 million) and receiver Taylor Jacobs ($500,000) and trim another $3.5 million off the cap in order to afford a third cornerback, a reserve offensive lineman or another player let go by another team after June 1.
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There's been a lot of confusion about Adam Vinateri's legal representation after he hired Gary Uberstine, who worked out a deal for the kicker with the Indianapolis Colts. NFL Players Association general counsel Richard Berthelsen said, to his knowledge, Vinatieri never officially signed with agent Jonathan Hurst, who works for suspended agent Neil Cornrich. At least there was no official data. Once Cornrich had been suspended by the NFLPA, Vinatieri was free to choose a different agent. Vinatieri allowed Hurst to negotiate on his behalf, and, in fact, he began talks with the Green Bay Packers and Patriots. When talks weren't going well, Vinatieri decided to bring Uberstine into the picture. Because Vinatieri never officially signed with Hurst, the five-day waiting period players are required to adhere between firing an agent and hiring a new one was not applicable.

Mum's the word from kicker Paul Edinger's agent, Ken Harris. Edinger visited Foxborough the same day Vinatieri signed with the Colts.
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Jay Taylor's football passport is punched with many places he has visited, not unlike a tourist passing through. But he never has been the staying kind. He is the most proficient kicker in the history of the Orlando Predators, emerging as the team's all-time leader in field-goal and extra-point accuracy, although those numbers don't translate well in the NFL.

A brief run with the Tampa Bay Bucs in 2004 is the extent of his work in the highest level of the game, not counting training-camp cameo appearances with the Miami Dolphins, Buffalo Bills, Seattle Seahawks, Cleveland Browns and Tennessee Titans. The usual rationale -- "we like you, but we're going with a guy with more experience" -- bemuses Taylor. "As a kicker, it doesn't make that much of a difference, because you're just kicking the ball," he said. "You're not going against a different opponent. Just get the ball through the uprights. There's no game of strength or speed going on."

Taylor, 29, embraces the kicker's role as the odd fit on a roster of 24 players. His greatest exertion in practice might be spotting the ball while the offense scrimmages. Otherwise, he meticulously prepares for game day by lining up a handful of balls at a time and trying to kick them at a light post along the perimeter of McCracken Field by the Florida Citrus Bowl. He kicks from a parking lot toward the practice field, hoping his kick doesn't hit a palm tree on either side, or worse, he shanks it and drills the Port-O-Let. With a significant difference in the width of goal posts -- the Arena Football League's is 9 feet wide and the NFL's is 181/2 -- you look for any edge you can get. "I will usually practice trying to hit something much narrower than nine feet, so when I go out there and look at it, it's not a surprise," he said.

His predicament trying to find work outside Orlando -- where he has played three seasons -- reflects the typical career of an arena-league player, always appearing to be a step behind in the chase for greater opportunity.
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GREEN BAY

Former Indianapolis placekicker Dave Rayner has signed a free-agent contract with the Green Bay Packers. Rayner, who was waived by the Colts earlier in the week, inked the deal with the Packers on Thursday. A sixth-round draft pick by Indianapolis last year, the ex-Michigan State standout was Indianapolis’ primary kickoff specialist for most of the 2005 season.
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The Patriots signed Martin Gramatica, a veteran free agent, yesterday two weeks after losing Vinatieri to the Indianapolis Colts. Coincidentally, Indianapolis was the last NFL home for Gramatica. Gramatica, who was not in the league last season, last kicked in 2004, a season in which he was released by Tampa Bay two days after missing a trio of field goals (one was blocked) against the Panthers in the 11th game of that season. A week and a half later he signed with the Colts, serving as the team's kickoff specialist for the final four games of the regular season.

He underwent surgery last June to repair tears in his lower abdomen and adductor muscle, injuries he says were responsible for his erratic kicking in 2003 and '04. The injury is the same one Patriots quarterback Tom Brady had surgery to repair in February. Gramatica attacked rehab with a vigor and was at full strength during last season, but did not sign with a team.

Gramatica, who made two field goals in the Buccaneers' Super Bowl XXXVII victory over Oakland, seemed to lose it in 2003 and '04, making only 27 of 45 field goal attempts. In his first four seasons in the league, Gramatica's worst percentage was 79.3 (23 of 29 in 2001), but he made just 61.5 percent (16 of 26) in '03 and 57.9 percent (11 of 19) in '04.

The high-strung Gramatica is in some ways the opposite of the cool, even-tempered Vinatieri. Though he doesn't have a reputation for late-game heroics -- he has delivered five winning field goals in his career, compared with Vinatieri's 20 -- when he is right, he has a stronger leg than the Patriots' Super Bowl hero. Gramatica, the Lou Groza Award winner in 1997 as a junior at Kansas State, booted a 65-yard field goal as a senior, the longest successful kick in NCAA history without a tee.

The Patriots will bring in at least two other kickers for tryouts this offseason, and almost certainly one will be a rookie. New England special teams coach Brad Seely is scheduled to attend a workout of Ohio State kicker Josh Huston Monday.
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Patriots special teams coach Brad Seely is set to visit a trio of college kickers in the coming days. On Monday, he'll travel to Ohio State to see Josh Huston, followed by Virginia's Connor Hughes on Tuesday and Memphis' Stephen Gostkowski on Wednesday. Huston is considered the best all-around kicker of the bunch, with Hughes the most accurate.
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