Greatest Possession WR of all time? (1 Viewer)

[Carter_Can_Fly]

At this rate and in the offense and system he plays in will he be remembered as the greatest possesion WR ever?...

Welker may/should have 3-5 more years of 100 plus catch seasons. He already has 3 in a row which puts him in a short list. He is 28 now, if he does not endure any injuries, I can see him easily producing 3-5 more years of 100 catch seasons in this offense with Brady at the helm. Even if he does not get to 100 in those years he is going to rack up receptions and plenty of them. Are we witnessing the greatest possesion WR ever? And those that say what he does it easy or fooling themselves. If it was so easy we would see plenty of 100 plus catch guys in the NFL. But that is not the case.

 

[awesomeness]

No.

 

[Eminence]

No.

Well, there you have it.

 

[Shermanator]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

 

[Mr. Mojo]

Yes, he could eventually be one of the top possession WRs ever.

 

[inzanitee]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Yeah, I like Carter over Welker. Welker's great though.

 

[ffchamp1]

At this rate and in the offense and system he plays in will he be remembered as the greatest possesion WR ever?... Welker may/should have 3-5 more years of 100 plus catch seasons. He already has 3 in a row which puts him in a short list. He is 28 now, if he does not endure any injuries, I can see him easily producing 3-5 more years of 100 catch seasons in this offense with Brady at the helm. Even if he does not get to 100 in those years he is going to rack up receptions and plenty of them. Are we witnessing the greatest possesion WR ever? And those that say what he does it easy or fooling themselves. If it was so easy we would see plenty of 100 plus catch guys in the NFL. But that is not the case.

Rice, Jerry Rec: 1,549 Yds: 22,895 Avg: 14.8 TD: 197 Wes Welker Rec 428 Yds: 4,659 Ave: 10.9 TD: 16 Rice had 4 over 100 and 8 more over 80Having watched him his entire career, he fit the bill for home run and possesion wr

 

[King of Queens]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

 

[T Bell]

At this rate and in the offense and system he plays in will he be remembered as the greatest possesion WR ever?...

Welker may/should have 3-5 more years of 100 plus catch seasons. He already has 3 in a row which puts him in a short list. He is 28 now, if he does not endure any injuries, I can see him easily producing 3-5 more years of 100 catch seasons in this offense with Brady at the helm. Even if he does not get to 100 in those years he is going to rack up receptions and plenty of them. Are we witnessing the greatest possesion WR ever? And those that say what he does it easy or fooling themselves. If it was so easy we would see plenty of 100 plus catch guys in the NFL. But that is not the case.

Rice, Jerry Rec: 1,549 Yds: 22,895 Avg: 14.8 TD: 197 Wes Welker Rec 428 Yds: 4,659 Ave: 10.9 TD: 16

Rice had 4 over 100 and 8 more over 80

Having watched him his entire career, he fit the bill for home run and possesion wr

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

These were the first two names that popped into my head. I'd also throw Art Monk out there.

 

[Black&Gold]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Just coming to post this.

 

[T Bell]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

 

[Chase Stuart]

We're not going to get anywhere in this thread without a definition of a possession receiver. Just my .

Until I see him not meeting such a definition, Rice will get my vote.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

While possession receiver can be defined in a lot of ways, I think this is more a criticism of Carter as a slot receiver than a possession receiver. Carter didn't work out of the slot the way Welker does, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a possession receiver. Some possession receivers are slot receivers, but some are not, just like some slot receivers are possession receivers and some are not. For most of NFL history, there obviously wasn't even a slot receiver. Once three WR-sets became trendy, I think the slot receiver was more often a deepthreat player than a possession guy, at least before the advent of all the spread/Airraid offenses we see today.

 

[T Bell]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

While possession receiver can be defined in a lot of ways, I think this is more a criticism of Carter as a slot receiver than a possession receiver. Carter didn't work out of the slot the way Welker does, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a possession receiver. Some possession receivers are slot receivers, but some are not, just like some slot receivers are possession receivers and some are not. For most of NFL history, there obviously wasn't even a slot receiver. Once three WR-sets became trendy, I think the slot receiver was more often a deepthreat player than a possession guy, at least before the advent of all the spread/Airraid offenses we see today.

A great possession WR can line up anywhere. Rice lined up in the X, Y and Z positions, and even in the backfield and just off the tackle. Monk did the same thing with the exception of the backfield. Ditto Largent. I'm not down on Carter - he's a Hall of Fame WR and deservedly so, and one of the best red zone threats the game has ever seen. But in the comparison of possession WR's his lack of versatility hurts him. If I'm facing 3rd and 7 and need a first down outside of the opponents' red zone, I want Rice, Largent or Monk lining up for me before I want Carter.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

While possession receiver can be defined in a lot of ways, I think this is more a criticism of Carter as a slot receiver than a possession receiver. Carter didn't work out of the slot the way Welker does, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a possession receiver. Some possession receivers are slot receivers, but some are not, just like some slot receivers are possession receivers and some are not. For most of NFL history, there obviously wasn't even a slot receiver. Once three WR-sets became trendy, I think the slot receiver was more often a deepthreat player than a possession guy, at least before the advent of all the spread/Airraid offenses we see today.

A great possession WR can line up anywhere. Rice lined up in the X, Y and Z positions, and even in the backfield and just off the tackle. Monk did the same thing with the exception of the backfield. Ditto Largent. I'm not down on Carter - he's a Hall of Fame WR and deservedly so, and one of the best red zone threats the game has ever seen. But in the comparison of possession WR's his lack of versatility hurts him. If I'm facing 3rd and 7 and need a first down outside of the opponents' red zone, I want Rice, Largent or Monk lining up for me before I want Carter.

Good points. Except you misspelled Chrebet.

 

[T Bell]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

While possession receiver can be defined in a lot of ways, I think this is more a criticism of Carter as a slot receiver than a possession receiver. Carter didn't work out of the slot the way Welker does, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a possession receiver. Some possession receivers are slot receivers, but some are not, just like some slot receivers are possession receivers and some are not. For most of NFL history, there obviously wasn't even a slot receiver. Once three WR-sets became trendy, I think the slot receiver was more often a deepthreat player than a possession guy, at least before the advent of all the spread/Airraid offenses we see today.

A great possession WR can line up anywhere. Rice lined up in the X, Y and Z positions, and even in the backfield and just off the tackle. Monk did the same thing with the exception of the backfield. Ditto Largent. I'm not down on Carter - he's a Hall of Fame WR and deservedly so, and one of the best red zone threats the game has ever seen. But in the comparison of possession WR's his lack of versatility hurts him. If I'm facing 3rd and 7 and need a first down outside of the opponents' red zone, I want Rice, Largent or Monk lining up for me before I want Carter.

Good points. Except you misspelled Chrebet.

I agree that Chrebet deserves to be in this discussion. As I think through this more, I'd point out that Chrebet and Welker have a disadvantage to Monk and Rice, and that's their size. They need(ed) separation to make their plays. Monk and Rice obviously could use that, but they also had the ability to wrestle the ball away from guys in traffic and use body position more. Now Welker and Chrebet probably were/are a tad quicker in short space making cuts to get that separation which might reduce that disadvantage (although Monk's and Rice's superior route running help them in that regard), but again that lack of size is somewhat of a limitation for those two guys.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

One route, one play, one catch -> Monk, over Rice.

Monk played with Theisman and he did what he did.

Biletnikoff belongs in this conversation though. I think the one skill here is the ability to catch the ball if it is/was anywhere near them; never drops/dropped in clutch situations.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Keenan McCardell was a guy who came to mind when I first saw the thread title, but like has been said, it is hard to differentiate a true possession WR for a non-possession WR. I guess, for me, a possession WR is a WR who frequently catches a lot of balls, doesn't necessarily score a lot of TDs, and has a relatively low yards per catch (like around 10-12 YPC on a regular basis).

 

[Chase Stuart]

Keenan McCardell was a guy who came to mind when I first saw the thread title, but like has been said, it is hard to differentiate a true possession WR for a non-possession WR. I guess, for me, a possession WR is a WR who frequently catches a lot of balls, doesn't necessarily score a lot of TDs, and has a relatively low yards per catch (like around 10-12 YPC on a regular basis).

If we had the data, I think possession WR = first downs. I won't go so far as to say whoever has the most first downs in a season is the best possession receiver, but it would be a very good start. We have first down data for recent seasons, but certainly not enough to answer the question of GPWROAT using that method.

 

[kremenull]

At this rate and in the offense and system he plays in will he be remembered as the greatest possesion WR ever?... Welker may/should have 3-5 more years of 100 plus catch seasons. He already has 3 in a row which puts him in a short list. He is 28 now, if he does not endure any injuries, I can see him easily producing 3-5 more years of 100 catch seasons in this offense with Brady at the helm. Even if he does not get to 100 in those years he is going to rack up receptions and plenty of them. Are we witnessing the greatest possesion WR ever? And those that say what he does it easy or fooling themselves. If it was so easy we would see plenty of 100 plus catch guys in the NFL. But that is not the case.

Welker is a numbers/system guy, not a great player. Take Randy Moss out of the equation and if the defense applies attention to him, and he is not nearly as effective. I would not term him as the greatest anything, other than the most utilized WR based on the system he plays in. I tend to separate production/utilization from actually making a difference and being a great player. Welker far too often catches 10+ balls and the Pats still lose, whereas Moss catches a TD or goes over 100-yds and the Pats usually win......Great Possession WRs (past and present), who are great HOF-worthy football players the likes of whom Welker is not in their league......just off the top of my head1. Cris Carter2. Keyshawn Johnson3. Fred Biletnikoff4. John Stallworth5. Anquan Boldin6. Marques Colston7. Ed McCaffreyWelker is essentially Wayne Chrebet in a more modern, pass-happy offense.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Jerry Rice is the greatest wr of all time. But even Jerry only has 4 seasons in his career of over 100 catches.

I don't know if you will ever get a perfect definition of possession wr. But I think high reception totals with a low catch average equals a good start. Some guys you just see and you think possesion guys and Welker is one of those. What he is doing on a winning team year in and year out is going to end up being quite impressive when all is said and done.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Jerry Rice is the greatest wr of all time. But even Jerry only has 4 seasons in his career of over 100 catches.

Six times he either led the league or ranked 2nd in the league in receptions.

 

[MarshallRob]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

While we're still waiting for a definition of possession receiver I don't think you could strictly call Largent one. The guy was a tremendous deep threat who averaged 16 yards a catch for his career.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some other guys I would throw in the discussion...Steve Largent who at the time set a lot of marks for other WRs to come and take.

Nat Moore would be in this discussion.

Hines Ward has to be in the discussion and a likely future HoF WR, that guy is money. Derrick Mason is another fantastic possession WR. Both he and Ward can work down the field too.

Stanley Morgan

Michael Irvin, one of the best going across the middle on 3rd downs. He could beat you deep at times but his element was not speed.

Isaac Bruce

Ed McCaffrey

There are a lot of good ones but Welker is one of the very best right now, how he measures up in the future has yet to be determined but he is on the verge of doing something pretty darn special 3 years in a row.

 

[az_prof]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

While possession receiver can be defined in a lot of ways, I think this is more a criticism of Carter as a slot receiver than a possession receiver. Carter didn't work out of the slot the way Welker does, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a possession receiver. Some possession receivers are slot receivers, but some are not, just like some slot receivers are possession receivers and some are not. For most of NFL history, there obviously wasn't even a slot receiver. Once three WR-sets became trendy, I think the slot receiver was more often a deepthreat player than a possession guy, at least before the advent of all the spread/Airraid offenses we see today.

A great possession WR can line up anywhere. Rice lined up in the X, Y and Z positions, and even in the backfield and just off the tackle. Monk did the same thing with the exception of the backfield. Ditto Largent. I'm not down on Carter - he's a Hall of Fame WR and deservedly so, and one of the best red zone threats the game has ever seen. But in the comparison of possession WR's his lack of versatility hurts him. If I'm facing 3rd and 7 and need a first down outside of the opponents' red zone, I want Rice, Largent or Monk lining up for me before I want Carter.

The game in general did not have as much short crossing patterns at that time and the Vikings offense in particular didn't run those routes. You can't blame Carter for not running routes he wasn't asked to run. Rice is probably the best all around WR of all time and Carter is the best possession WR. Welker isn't even in their class. Let's see him do it for ten years and then have this conversation.Plus, there is simply alot more passing now than their used to be. And the rules have been changed to make it easier to pass and to make it easier in particular for smaller, quicker receivers.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Jerry Rice is the greatest wr of all time. But even Jerry only has 4 seasons in his career of over 100 catches.I don't know if you will ever get a perfect definition of possession wr. But I think high reception totals with a low catch average equals a good start. Some guys you just see and you think possesion guys and Welker is one of those. What he is doing on a winning team year in and year out is going to end up being quite impressive when all is said and done.

It's a good point. However, I wouldn't called players in Detroit, Atlanta, or Pittsburgh's run and shoot (of the past) great possession receivers in the classic sense of what I think a possession receiver is. When you spread the field and get a lot of underneath stuff in shallow zone coverage the credit goes a lot more to the offensive scheme than the individual effort of the player. Welker is a tough guy with good skills after the catch and he is savvy with crossing routes. However such a high amount of his receptions seem to be crossing routes that it's difficult for me to look at his catch totals and be as impressed as I would be with players like Keenan McCardell, Steve Largent, Charlie Joiner, Chris Carter, and other receivers who faced more man coverage and played on teams where they went over the middle on the more dangerous routes because their system dictated it. A crossing route tends to be more of an east-west over the middle route that is less dangerous and productive than a north-south route requiring little margin for error and more toughness like a skinny post or dig route. I'm not taking anything away from Welker's potential to do these things, but he just doesn't get to prove it the way I think a possession receiver should be defined which is a receiver that runs a higher variety of routes like dig routes, skinny posts, outs, and corner routes and makes those plays in tight coverage or in high traffic areas? Again, it's not his fault he benefits from Randy Moss and Tom Brady. However, Some of the best possession receivers are also players who can function as a No.1 without a great presence opposite him. I'm not sure Welker will have the opportunity to prove it. He's a very good player, but best possession receiver of all-time? I wouldn't remotely mention his name for another three to four years even with his impressive three-year run statistically speaking. In fact, based on toughness, hands, routes, and versatility, I'll take Donald Driver over Wes Welker because he is asked to do more than Welker right now and does it well. Welker will have better stats than Driver, but to me Driver is a better possession guy. Put him opposite Moss and I think you wind up with a more dynamic offense. This is probably why Brett Favre had a near conniption to get Moss in GB a few years ago. Current possession receivers I like as much as Welkerriver, Houshmandzadeh (not in the right system for his talents), Jerricho Cotchery, Hines Ward (not a great route runner, but Welker runs limited routes, too - maybe more by design in the offense), Steve Smith (Giants), Lance Moore (when healthy, he's a lot like Welker). If you go strictly by stats then yes, I can see catches and first downs as a factor. However, I believe the stats will be biased towards modern players and systems that force defenses to play softer coverage underneath in the 8-10 yard area off the line of scrimmage. Steve Largent is still a player that comes to mind as a great possession receiver who probably gets a little short shrift due to the fact he wasn't in a pass heavy offense and facing defenses allowed to play bump and run in a manner that we'd hear the media, fans, and coaches term "a mugging" when the Pats did the same thing a few years ago in a championship game against the Colts.

 

[David Yudkin]

Through 5 seasons played, Welker has more receptions than any receiver in league history (and still has 2 games left to play). He has accumulated 428 catches (Fitzgerald is 2nd with 426). His ypr is also the lowest by far of anyone in the Top 20 guys in terms of receptions over their first 5 years. Not sure if that makes him the best . . . but it certainly makes him one of the most proflific in terms of raw reception totals.

 

[NatronIsMean]

No.

How wrong were you about Miles Austin? Forgive me if a ignore all of your confident yet completely wrong assertions.

 

[Spike]

Some other guys I would throw in the discussion...Steve Largent who at the time set a lot of marks for other WRs to come and take.

Nat Moore would be in this discussion.

Hines Ward has to be in the discussion and a likely future HoF WR, that guy is money. Derrick Mason is another fantastic possession WR. Both he and Ward can work down the field too.

Stanley Morgan

Michael Irvin, one of the best going across the middle on 3rd downs. He could beat you deep at times but his element was not speed.

Isaac Bruce

Ed McCaffrey

There are a lot of good ones but Welker is one of the very best right now, how he measures up in the future has yet to be determined but he is on the verge of doing something pretty darn special 3 years in a row.

Nat Moore? Do you mean Herman Moore of the Lions?Stanley Morgan? No way. He was a deep-threat, not a possession-type of WR.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Through 5 seasons played, Welker has more receptions than any receiver in league history (and still has 2 games left to play). He has accumulated 428 catches (Fitzgerald is 2nd with 426). His ypr is also the lowest by far of anyone in the Top 20 guys in terms of receptions over their first 5 years. Not sure if that makes him the best . . . but it certainly makes him one of the most proflific in terms of raw reception totals.

THis is my point.... Welker's stats may end up being so good as they already are that he has to be in contention.-I don't care if you call it perfect storm with Welker ending up with Brady in this offensive scheme and Moss going to NE and so on and so on..... what he is doing is historic and should be treated as such. If he continues on this pace he needs to be in the running.This season alone... Welker is averaging 9.1 catches a game. He has 109 cathces and has only played in 12 games.Welker is in his prime and is doing what is asked of him in NE. What he does is in art. The punishment he takes and continues to take yet produce weekly is also something that has to be admired. I think due to his situation, and who he is playing with that Welker's accomplishments are getting overlooked.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

We're not going to get anywhere in this thread without a definition of a possession receiver. Just my .Until I see him not meeting such a definition, Rice will get my vote.

Look at the top 3 WR on any NFL team and pick the slowest one. That's the "possession receiver". The term itself is mostly a media creation and is not used within football coaching circles.

I disagree... A good possession WR may not be your fastest, but he better run good routes and have great hands ala Houshy, and S. Smith (giants).

 

[Chase Stuart]

We're not going to get anywhere in this thread without a definition of a possession receiver. Just my .

Until I see him not meeting such a definition, Rice will get my vote.

Look at the top 3 WR on any NFL team and pick the slowest one. That's the "possession receiver". The term itself is mostly a media creation and is not used within football coaching circles.

I disagree... A good possession WR may not be your fastest, but he better run good routes and have great hands ala Houshy, and S. Smith (giants).

I think speed, route-running and hands are attributes your possession WR may have, but generally I think it's someone who keeps possession of the ball on your side; that's how they came up with the term. If you catch three first downs on a drive, you're sustaining the drive and keeping possession. As it stands, Reggie Wayne is leading the league in first downs; Fitz and Welker are tied for second.

http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...FL&rank=058

Steve Smith (NYG) and Davone Bess lead the league in third down first down receptions.

http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...FL&rank=104

 

[Doug B]

Nat Moore? Do you mean Herman Moore of the Lions?

Nah ... MOP's talking about former Dolphin WR Nat Moore. Played in the late 70s - early/mid 1980s....Others not named, but that are worthy of mention, would be two from the 1980s: former 49er Dwight Clark and former Cardinal Pat Tilley.

 

[Enforcer]

I'm going to disagree with all the people wanting to pigeon hole Largent as a "possession" receiver. He caught A LOT of balls deep down field, and he was much faster than most would guess he was.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Take a look at his yards per reception stats.

Rec Yds Yd/Rec Tds

819 13089 16.0 100

Oh. My mistake. He was a white guy? Must have been a possession receiver.EDIT: I tried to use the CODE tags, but they suck worse than people that call Largent a "possession" receiver.

 

[Donnybrook]

Through 5 seasons played, Welker has more receptions than any receiver in league history (and still has 2 games left to play). He has accumulated 428 catches (Fitzgerald is 2nd with 426). His ypr is also the lowest by far of anyone in the Top 20 guys in terms of receptions over their first 5 years. Not sure if that makes him the best . . . but it certainly makes him one of the most proflific in terms of raw reception totals.

I don't know how to define a possession reciever but wouldn't Larry Fitzgerald qualify. He makes great catches in traffic.

 

[Enforcer]

If someone feels the need to pick a Seahawk, Bobby Engram is the greatest "possession" receiver in Seattle history.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm going to disagree with all the people wanting to pigeon hole Largent as a "possession" receiver. He caught A LOT of balls deep down field, and he was much faster than most would guess he was.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Take a look at his yards per reception stats.

Rec Yds Yd/Rec Tds

819 13089 16.0 100

Oh. My mistake. He was a white guy? Must have been a possession receiver.EDIT: I tried to use the CODE tags, but they suck worse than people that call Largent a "possession" receiver.

The code tags work if you convert the data by using the "PRE" button on the P-F-R page. It's on the line with "Rushing and Receiving" and "Big Games."

Rece  Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rush Rush Rush Rush Rush Rush Rush				   Year	 Age  Tm Pos No.   G  GS  Rec   Yds  Y/R   TD  Lng  R/G  Y/G  Att  Yds   TD  Lng  Y/A  Y/G  A/G  YScm RRTD Fmb  AV1976	  22 SEA  WR  80  14  13   54   705 13.1	4   45  3.9 50.4	4  -14	0	7 -3.5 -1.0  0.3   691	4   2   71977	  23 SEA  WR  80  14  14   33   643 19.5   10   74  2.4 45.9									  643   10   0  101978*	 24 SEA  WR  80  16  16   71  1168 16.5	8   57  4.4 73.0									 1168	8   0  141979*	 25 SEA  WR  80  15  15   66  1237 18.7	9   55  4.4 82.5									 1237	9   0  141980	  26 SEA  WR  80  16  16   66  1064 16.1	6   67  4.1 66.5	1	2	0	2  2.0  0.1  0.1  1066	6   1   91981*	 27 SEA  WR  80  16  16   75  1224 16.3	9   57  4.7 76.5	6   47	1   15  7.8  2.9  0.4  1271   10   2  121982	  28 SEA  WR  80   8   8   34   493 14.5	3   45  4.3 61.6	1	8	0	8  8.0  1.0  0.1   501	3   0   61983	  29 SEA  WR  80  15  14   72  1074 14.9   11   46  4.8 71.6									 1074   11   3  121984*	 30 SEA  WR  80  16  16   74  1164 15.7   12   65  4.6 72.8	2   10	0	6  5.0  0.6  0.1  1174   12   1  111985*+	31 SEA  WR  80  16  16   79  1287 16.3	6   43  4.9 80.4									 1287	6   0  101986*	 32 SEA  WR  80  16  16   70  1070 15.3	9   38  4.4 66.9									 1070	9   3  121987*	 33 SEA  WR  80  13  13   58   912 15.7	8   55  4.5 70.2	2   33	0   21 16.5  2.5  0.2   945	8   2  131988	  34 SEA  WR  80  15  15   39   645 16.5	2   46  2.6 43.0	1   -3	0   -3 -3.0 -0.2  0.1   642	2   3   71989	  35 SEA  WR  80  10   9   28   403 14.4	3   33  2.8 40.3									  403	3   0   3Career				   200 197  819 13089 16.0  100   74  4.1 65.4   17   83	1   21  4.9  0.4  0.1 13172  101  17 140

 

[Enforcer]

The code tags work if you convert the data by using the "PRE" button on the P-F-R page. It's on the line with "Rushing and Receiving" and "Big Games."

Thanks. Appreciate the help there.Would you agree with me that Largent was not a "possession" receiver?

 

[Chase Stuart]

The code tags work if you convert the data by using the "PRE" button on the P-F-R page. It's on the line with "Rushing and Receiving" and "Big Games."

Thanks. Appreciate the help there.Would you agree with me that Largent was not a "possession" receiver?

Yes, for sure. He was great at just about everything, so he was probaby great at being a possession receiver in that sense. But on the possession receiver/deep threat continuum, he's not very close to the "possession receiver" end.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Two guys who deserve mention here -- Raymond Berry and Lionel Taylor.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

The names that came to mind for me were Largent, Monk, and Charlie Joiner.

I always thought of Charlie Joiner as a possession receiver, but his 16.2 yards per catch seems to suggest otherwise. But on those Air Coryell teams, he was the possession guy when compared to John Jefferson or Wes Chandler.

 

[Enforcer]

I have to admit that I'm very interested in the topic, but probably only because I'm annoyed by comparisons of receivers from the past to receivers of the modern era that I think are really poorly thought out. The Largent one is a hot button for me because he was a white guy. I understand there aren't a ton of white guy receivers in the NFL, and that even more rare are white guy receivers that are deep threats instead of underneath guys. I'm not calling anyone a racist or blindly ignorant, just short sighted and perhaps uneducated with regard to facts. Maybe just lazy. Really though, this is more my problem than someone else's problem. After thinking about it, its not worth getting into an argument.

This seems a better question to answer before you nominate candidates, "What are the qualities of a possession receiver?"

-Guy that isn't too fast or a deep threat.

-Guy that gains separation in short patterns.

-Guy that moves the sticks a lot in underneath patterns.

-Guy that has great hands and holds on while taking a wallop from a DB or LB.

Anyone add more to this list?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I guess when I think possession WR I think who do I want to throw to when they have to have a catch....

I downgrade a couple big names, just because they would draw the best coverage....and I think that is part of the other guys being "possession" receivers...

I'll take.....Welker

probably never a #1 on a team (in theory, but a case could be made that he is in terms of catches)....but if you need a catch he's your dude....

thought about Carter....even Kellen Winslow Sr....Largent....etc......but when I think of poss WR...I think of guy who won't draw the best defender and that will make the catch....I kinda hate going with a recent guy, but I think it fits.....

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Steve Largent's name has come up multiple times now.

 

[rifkin]

I agree that a strictly possession receiver means 'first downs or keeps the sticks moving WR' and the greatest in my lifetime(early 70s on) was Art Monk and it's not that close. Dude had some ridiculous stat involving ratio of catches to first downs.

 

[Kimber]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

All Chris Carter did is catch TD's.

 

[fissure man]

Personally I define a possession receiver as a receiver who is talented at getting first downs, not 80+ yarders.

Example, DeSean Jackson is not a possession receiver.

Jerry Rice is in his own class. He was both a possession receiver and deep threat. I think you have to completely remove him from all WR rankings in order to have any discussion.

Welker is a very good possession WR, but the best? Ever?

I'll take Michael Irvin in that role. 3rd and 7? 8 yard slant from Aikman to Irvin. Everybody in the stadium knew it was coming and nobody could stop it.

 

[spider321]

Any and all greatest at anything WR questions should be prefaced by "Other than Jerry Rice".

 

[kevthegrad]

Two words: SNOOP MINIS

 

[Enforcer]

Steve Largent's name has come up multiple times now.

Is each successive post more ignorant than the previous one?