Greatest Possession WR of all time? (1 Viewer)

[fissure man]

Look at the names being thrown around as examples of great possession WR's... Chrebet, Steve Watson, McCaffrey, Largent, Welker.Any mention of Rice or Carter is usually followed by some kind of objection.I think it's pretty clear what is going on here.

They are all white.Not one of those guys mentioned not named Rice or Carter were better possession rec's then Irvin.

 

[Horrorshow]

Some other good possession receivers from the sixties, seventies, eighties and early nineties;

Danny Abramowicz

Brian Brennan

Bob Chandler

Bobby Joe Conrad

Haywood Jeffires

Eric Martin

Johnny Morris

JT Smith

Al Toon

 

[Horrorshow]

Nat Moore? Do you mean Herman Moore of the Lions?

Nah ... MOP's talking about former Dolphin WR Nat Moore. Played in the late 70s - early/mid 1980s.

Nat Moore fan here. The impressive thing to consider with Moore is how productive he was on a team that threw the football so infrequently before Dan Marino arrived.Miami Passing Attempt Ranks

1974 - 25th

1975 - 26th

1976 - 22nd

1977 - 23rd

1978 - 23rd

1979 - 21st

1980 - 12th

1981 - 14th

1982 - 27th

WR Receptions 1974/1982

444 = Harold Carmichael

436 = Ahmad Rashad

428 = Charlie Joiner

420 = Drew Pearson

413 = Cliff Branch

399 = Steve Largent

339 = Nat Moore

337 = Reggie Rucker

336 = Lynn Swann

 

[Instinctive]

Are we simply not mentioning Brandon Marshall becaus ehe hasn't been around long enough yet?

Watching him play, the way he gets YAC and first downs again and again...he's my vote if his career keeps tracking like it is

 

[DesmondBishop]

I have always felt a "possession" receiver was the guy with great hands, aware of the first down marker the QB's "out" guy if you will and somehow always seems open.

I think Welker is pretty good at all of those things and he is a very heads up player.

As for best of all time, I have to go with Fred Biletnikoff, he never dropped a pass and for a slow dorky guy, always seemed open.

 

[gonzobill5]

Are we simply not mentioning Brandon Marshall becaus ehe hasn't been around long enough yet? Watching him play, the way he gets YAC and first downs again and again...he's my vote if his career keeps tracking like it is

I am amazed at how good he is at coming back to the ball to bail out his QB. It is rather difficult to catch a pass running back toward a QB, not to mention turn yourself back upfield to get a first down. Marshall seems to come back a little further to ensure he gets separation. He knows he's good enough to break a few tackles and go get the first down anyway. Reading through this thread I'm still stumped by the lack of a universal agreement on the definition of possession receiver. We've heard so much about the "Wes Welker Role" lately. I'll concede that Welker is the best I've seen at that - getting off the line quick, slipping away from defenders, cutting through traffic, making tough catches, and mostly, avoiding big hits. But I don't see how this makes him the best possession receiver. I'd prefer a guy with a big frame, incredible hands, body control & position, a guy can run ANY route. Someone mentioned earlier that the player with the most first downs might be a good nominee for best possession receiver - the problem with that is that not all 1st downs are created equal. What's the value of a first down against a prevent defense when you are down 20? There is a certain clutch factor that is involved and I don't know if there is a statistic that can capture that. If it's third and 10 and you needed a first down, how many wide receiver's would you want on your team before you even thought of Welker? I could probably think of 20 easily. After all, the Pats didn't even think of him on 4th & 2 - they went to Faulk instead. All in all here are a few guys that came to mind for me that haven't been mentioned much: Sterling Sharpe, Tony G., Rod Smith.

 

[mlball77]

Art Monk was mentioned already, and I think his name is worthy to be in the discussion... and Tim Brown is another that should probably be in the mix.

That said, I think Welker is a special player in a great system and could end up as one of the great possession WRs of all-time, just too early to put him in that group right now.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

3) Welkers numbers are dependent on ... B) How long Brady will play or if the Pats have a suitable replacement. No one plays forever. A lesser Brady or a different QB might mean a different offensive philsophy that doesn't focus on Welker.

Welker did have 111 catches last season with Cassel as his QB. Granted, same system in place, but there you go.

 

[Doug B]

All in all here are a few guys that came to mind for me that haven't been mentioned much: Sterling Sharpe, Tony G., Rod Smith.

I think people were purposefully steering clear of tight ends because of the thread's title. In fact, many 1960s-1980s TEs were their team's go-to receiver in gotta-get-a-few-yards scenarios. The dinking and dunking to slot WRs was done a lot less often before the 49ers' style WCO spread across the NFL.This is why I think it's OK to list Largent as a top-flight "possession WR". Sure, his skill set was broader than just running 10-yd buttonhooks ... but Largent really was OUSTANDING at nabbing those clutch 3rd-down balls right past the marker. Largent filled a need for both the expansion-era Seahawks and those Ground Chuck Seahawks teams -- there wasn't a high-level TE or another WR anywhere near as skillful as Largent on those squads. Young Pete Metzelaars was mostly a blocker in Knox's schemes. Daryl "Deep Heat" Turner was on a perpetual fly pattern. Paul Skansi was a gritty guy who could work underneath just fine, but he wasn't the all-around threat Largent was.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Fred Biletnikoff, and like you Shark Poolers like to say...."and it isn't even close".

I doubt they will be handing out the Wes Welker award to college players anytime soon.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

3) Welkers numbers are dependent on ... B) How long Brady will play or if the Pats have a suitable replacement. No one plays forever. A lesser Brady or a different QB might mean a different offensive philsophy that doesn't focus on Welker.

Welker did have 111 catches last season with Cassel as his QB. Granted, same system in place, but there you go.

I don't think it should be a hit on Welker that the offensive game plan is many times his ability to get open and catch passes. Maybe just maybe it is because he is really good at doing this and the Patriots know this. Does it help having R. Moss there and Brady throwing him the ball? Yes, of course it does. But does it also help Brady having Welker as this safety valve that you throw to and know he is going to hang onto the ball. For instance in yesterdays game Welker had 13 targets and caught all 13 of them to go along with his 138 yards.He has caught 122 of the 160 balls thrown his way this year for 1336 yards in 13 games. He has caught 76% of the balls thrown his way that is astounding.

 

[switz]

The first name that popped in my mind was Cris Carter. Welker is a good/great receiver. But has a ways to go to get to Cris Carters level. IMO

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't recall Carter working a lot in the middle of the field, between the hash marks. I seem to recall him working the sideline, especially on fade routes and stop routes, and also on some slants. These limitations to his route running (and also no doubt his bad attitude at the time) was what prompted the ironic criticism of Buddy Ryan that "all he does is catch touchdowns" when Carter was with the Eagles. He was an expert on body position and the trend of QB's passing to the WR's back shoulder on stop routes was begun in large part with him IMHO, but he didn't run a lot of short and medium crossing routes in the middle of the field that are critical to converting third downs and which are the bread and butter of possession recievers' work. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my recollection.

You're recollection is incorrect. Perhaps that was true early in his career with the Eagles, for as short as that was. But in MIN he often ran across the middle of the field. Reed and then Moss were on the outside, Carter did the middle.

 

[Carver]

Wes Welker is a stud. Id take him on my team any day of the week and 10X on Sunday.

 

[thatguy]

Through 5 seasons played, Welker has more receptions than any receiver in league history (and still has 2 games left to play). He has accumulated 428 catches (Fitzgerald is 2nd with 426). His ypr is also the lowest by far of anyone in the Top 20 guys in terms of receptions over their first 5 years. Not sure if that makes him the best . . . but it certainly makes him one of the most proflific in terms of raw reception totals.

Marshall is currently at 327 with one game left in his 4th season. If he surpases 100 receptions again next season, which would be for the fourth consecurtive year, he would surpass Fitz, and possibly Welker depending how they each do week 17. His career YPC is a relatively low 12.4 and trending down every eyar of his career (15.4, 13.0, 12.2, 11.1). He's also younger than Welker by about 3 years.

 

[SteevieG]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Largent -- First name I thought of.

 

[JJP]

I've seen a number of WRs who I don't consider "possession receivers" mentioned: (Stallworth, Colston, Largent and Nat Moore), but the obvious current one (other than Welker) has to be Hines Ward. He maybe wasn't for his whole career, but he definitely has been the past 4 years or so. Old timers who come to mind are Biletnikoff, Kewyshawn and the latter years Chris Carter.

I don't consider Boldin or Brandon Marshall possession receivers because they will run deep routes but they catch so many WR screens that it brings down their YPC. Both of these guys are extremely physical receivers and the teams are just trying to get the ball in their hands more. True "possession" receivers aren't great after the catch.

 

[Enforcer]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Largent -- First name I thought of.

Please do tell... why? Is it because he had a higher average yards per reception than both Randy Moss and Terrell Owens? Are people really not able to overcome the concept of "white-guy WR" = "possession WR".

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

This guy would get my vote:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LargSt00.htm

Largent -- First name I thought of.

Please do tell... why? Is it because he had a higher average yards per reception than both Randy Moss and Terrell Owens? Are people really not able to overcome the concept of "white-guy WR" = "possession WR".

Lance Alworth = white guy = one of the best all time NOT = possession WR.Don Hutson = white guy = arguably the best all time NOT = possession WR.

 

[fissure man]

I've seen a number of WRs who I don't consider "possession receivers" mentioned: (Stallworth, Colston, Largent and Nat Moore), but the obvious current one (other than Welker) has to be Hines Ward. He maybe wasn't for his whole career, but he definitely has been the past 4 years or so. Old timers who come to mind are Biletnikoff, Keyshawn and the latter years Chris Carter.

I don't consider Boldin or Brandon Marshall possession receivers because they will run deep routes but they catch so many WR screens that it brings down their YPC. Both of these guys are extremely physical receivers and the teams are just trying to get the ball in their hands more. True "possession" receivers aren't great after the catch.

That is a very good one. On third down, I would take Key over a lot of guys. He was never scared, and he would always hold on to it.

 

[Enforcer]

Are people really not able to overcome the concept of "white-guy WR" = "possession WR".

Lance Alworth = white guy = one of the best all time NOT = possession WR.Don Hutson = white guy = arguably the best all time NOT = possession WR.

You're a good man, Hoss.

 

[Instinctive]

I've seen a number of WRs who I don't consider "possession receivers" mentioned: (Stallworth, Colston, Largent and Nat Moore), but the obvious current one (other than Welker) has to be Hines Ward. He maybe wasn't for his whole career, but he definitely has been the past 4 years or so. Old timers who come to mind are Biletnikoff, Keyshawn and the latter years Chris Carter.

I don't consider Boldin or Brandon Marshall possession receivers because they will run deep routes but they catch so many WR screens that it brings down their YPC. Both of these guys are extremely physical receivers and the teams are just trying to get the ball in their hands more. True "possession" receivers aren't great after the catch.

That is a very good one. On third down, I would take Key over a lot of guys. He was never scared, and he would always hold on to it.

Unfortunately, it's tainted by the claim that Marshall runs a lot of deep routes. He may run a couple, but Welker runs some too. Every WR runs a deep route sometimes. Marshall has a relatively low career ypr, a high catch percentage, and amazing YAC skills that bump up the ypr to the number it's at...so it shoud be even lower if we want to talk about where he gets the ball.

 

[MCguidance]

No mention of Marvin Harrison?

Look at this four year stretch. He was Welker with better yardage and more TDs. Similar pass happy offense, and a great QB.

1999*+ 27 IND WR 88 16 16 115 1663 14.5 12

2000* 28 IND WR 88 16 16 102 1413 13.9 14

2001* 29 IND WR 88 16 16 109 1524 14.0 15

2002*+ 30 IND WR 88 16 16 143 1722 12.0 11

I would be curious as to his first down receptions, 3rd down for 1st down receptions, etc. But Harrison is on my short list for best possession WRs ever. Rice is my clear 1, btw.

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

I have to admit that I'm very interested in the topic, but probably only because I'm annoyed by comparisons of receivers from the past to receivers of the modern era that I think are really poorly thought out. The Largent one is a hot button for me because he was a white guy. I understand there aren't a ton of white guy receivers in the NFL, and that even more rare are white guy receivers that are deep threats instead of underneath guys. I'm not calling anyone a racist or blindly ignorant, just short sighted and perhaps uneducated with regard to facts. Maybe just lazy. Really though, this is more my problem than someone else's problem. After thinking about it, its not worth getting into an argument. This seems a better question to answer before you nominate candidates, "What are the qualities of a possession receiver?"-Guy that isn't too fast or a deep threat.-Guy that gains separation in short patterns.-Guy that moves the sticks a lot in underneath patterns.-Guy that has great hands and holds on while taking a wallop from a DB or LB.Anyone add more to this list?

I would have to say that a possession type of WR has changed over the years from what it might have been with players like Steve Largent and Fred Biletnikoff to players like a Cris Carter and Wes Welker, with a mix of Jerry Rice thrown in there too. I would say that a possession type of receiver is probably the one receiver a QB looks to most of the time when he needs a big catch, for a 1st down or for a TD. It usually is a player that doesn't have great speed, but runs great routes and has very good hands, so they would work the middle of the field in the open pockets of a zone or along the sidelines.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Well I figured it has been a couple more year and Welker just keeps on producing.

He is on pace this year for 120 catches and 1472 yards. He is a machine in the slot and to produce at the same rate after a serious knee injury given his slot role is outright amazing.

He might just be cementing his legacy as greatest possesion WR to ever play.

 

[MarcO]

Personally I define a possession receiver as a receiver who is talented at getting first downs, not 80+ yarders.

Example, DeSean Jackson is not a possession receiver.

Jerry Rice is in his own class. He was both a possession receiver and deep threat. I think you have to completely remove him from all WR rankings in order to have any discussion.

Welker is a very good possession WR, but the best? Ever?



I'll take Michael Irvin in that role. 3rd and 7? 8 yard slant from Aikman to Irvin. Everybody in the stadium knew it was coming and nobody could stop it.

+1

 

[matuski]

Well I figured it has been a couple more year and Welker just keeps on producing.He is on pace this year for 120 catches and 1472 yards. He is a machine in the slot and to produce at the same rate after a serious knee injury given his slot role is outright amazing.He might just be cementing his legacy as greatest possesion WR to ever play.

He might cement the stats to make the argument, but I doubt Welker will ever cement his spot in on any all time lists.Meaning, he has produced as such but probably won't be perceived or remembered as such.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Well I figured it has been a couple more year and Welker just keeps on producing.He is on pace this year for 120 catches and 1472 yards. He is a machine in the slot and to produce at the same rate after a serious knee injury given his slot role is outright amazing.He might just be cementing his legacy as greatest possesion WR to ever play.

He might cement the stats to make the argument, but I doubt Welker will ever cement his spot in on any all time lists.Meaning, he has produced as such but probably won't be perceived or remembered as such.

I agree with this. Even though he will go down as the only player in NFL history to have FIVE 100 plus catch seasons. The scary thing is he would have had 6 had he not been hurt.Just for Comparison... Jerry Rice four 100 yard catch seasonMarvin Harrison 4Larry Fitzgerald 2Calvin Johnson 0

 

[Max Power]

Tom Waddle - I know its not the right answer, but its my answer. Loved him growing up, the guy always made the tough catch at a time when WRs could get blown up going across the middle.