What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Greg Jennings will be the one traded, not James Jones (1 Viewer)

spreagle

Footballguy
I believe this based on James Jones intense offseason workouts (for the first time in his career), and his decent first game where he played the majority of snaps which is unusual for him. Also because of Greg Jennings grumpy attitude of late, his relative disappearance in the first game, the last year of his contract, and the Packers needs elsewhere especially cornerback. Lastly, the emergency of Cobb as a threat makes it easier to get rid of Jennings. A healthy Jennings will fetch more than Jones in a trade.

Jennings supposed "groin injury" late in the game may be real only in the sense McCarthy told him he's going to be traded to Miami, which was a real kick in the groin. Plus its cover to keep Jennings from being injured against the Bears while the talks are being finalized.

James Jones = sleeper WR of the year.

 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
I agree he won't likely be traded, but I disagree that he is a top tier player. Put him on the Dolphins, and what kind of performance would you expect?
 
I believe this based on James Jones intense offseason workouts (for the first time in his career), and his decent first game where he played the majority of snaps which is unusual for him. Also because of Greg Jennings grumpy attitude of late, his relative disappearance in the first game, the last year of his contract, and the Packers needs elsewhere especially cornerback. Lastly, the emergency of Cobb as a threat makes it easier to get rid of Jennings. A healthy Jennings will fetch more than Jones in a trade.Jennings supposed "groin injury" late in the game may be real only in the sense McCarthy told him he's going to be traded to Miami, which was a real kick in the groin. Plus its cover to keep Jennings from being injured against the Bears while the talks are being finalized. James Jones = sleeper WR of the year.
link?
 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
:goodposting:
 
It is amazing that James Jones was a free agent in 2011 and there wasn't enough interest from other teams to sign him to a contract.

 
It is amazing that James Jones was a free agent in 2011 and there wasn't enough interest from other teams to sign him to a contract.
I think a lot of that had to do with his lack of consistency, playing with arguably one of the most consistent QBs and offenses in the league. I am sure there was a lot of, "well, if he can't put it together with Rodgers, how is he going to do it with my QB?", going on. I am curious as to whether Philbin made a play for him during camp.
 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
calvin, jones, fitz, green, marshall, white, nicks, nelson, harvin, bryant, steve smith, colston, vjax, wayne, bowe, d thomasall guys I think have more receiving talent than jennings, and would post etter #s than jennings on GB
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A. What was this grumpy attitude.

B. Not top tier...how did that work out for Hucks when he tries it. Seriously people...the guy busts his butt...runs great routes...shows big play ability and does everything you need a WR to do. But he did not have the combine measurables so to some of you he is not top tier.

C. He "disappeared" as much as Jordy Nelson did in game one. Its called the 9ers taking those 2 away...which is why Jones, Cobb, and Finley had nice days.

D. He is not getting traded.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
calvin, jones, fitz, green, marshall, white, nicks, nelson, harvin, bryant, steve smith, colston, vjax, wayne, bowe, d thomasall guys I think have more receiving talent than jennings, and would post etter #s than jennings on GB
Nelson? No.Harvin? No.Bryant? No.Smith? In his prime...maybe...now, not close.Colston? No.VJax? No, sorry.Wayne? In his prime yes...now, close, but no.D Thomas? Not yet. Speed his all he has.Seriously...again, I have said this in other Jennings threads...read and listen to what the Pitt defenders were saying during that Super Bowl. Then see him still go out there and put up nice numbers and 2 TDs. Read what every other WR for the Packers says about him, and what his QB says.
 
It is amazing that James Jones was a free agent in 2011 and there wasn't enough interest from other teams to sign him to a contract.
I think a lot of that had to do with the lockout and the fact that most WR needy teams were forced to address those needs with the draft before free agency opened. That, and the fact that Jones dropped everything under the sun leading up to free agency.
 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
calvin, jones, fitz, green, marshall, white, nicks, nelson, harvin, bryant, steve smith, colston, vjax, wayne, bowe, d thomasall guys I think have more receiving talent than jennings, and would post etter #s than jennings on GB
VJax shouldn't be on this list. He's a one tick pony vertical threat, I do not view him as elite because he's far from polished. You see, even if Jennings is #16, that's still in the top 10%.
 
When was the last time a top tier player at any position was traded once the season started?
He wasn't "top tier" at the time, but Marshawn Lynch is the only guy that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Jennings is not now and never was "top tier"
This is hogwash. There are 160 WRs in the league, closer to 200 if you include practice squad players. There are not 15 more talented WRs in the league, and if you're in the top 10% then you are certainly top-tier. I am baffled at how underrated Jennings is on these boards. No, he's not Megatron. No, he's not Julio. No, he can't take defenders 1v3 or jump 20 feet into the air. But he's still one of the top 10% of WRs in this league.
calvin, jones, fitz, green, marshall, white, nicks, nelson, harvin, bryant, steve smith, colston, vjax, wayne, bowe, d thomasall guys I think have more receiving talent than jennings, and would post etter #s than jennings on GB
VJax shouldn't be on this list. He's a one tick pony vertical threat, I do not view him as elite because he's far from polished. You see, even if Jennings is #16, that's still in the top 10%.
Sure, if we going off the arbitrary number of top 10%.To me, the elite is a very small bunch of maybe 4-5 WRs. the rest fall in line of very good and downwards
 
I think the jury is still very much out on Jordy Nelson being "elite", too. Only one season of more than 600 yards and 2 TD's heading into his 5th year. He seemed almost invisible in games last year only to hit on a huge play for TD at a ridiculously high rate. I think he's good - but elite?

 
Now arguing semantics of top tier.

Nobody said elite.

Top tier WRs and elite are a bit of a different thing are they not.

As a poster said...he is not Calvin or Julio. He is not some physical freak.

He runs great routes and figths for balls in traffic too. Not sure what else a guy has to do to be a "top tier" guy.

 
Now arguing semantics of top tier.Nobody said elite.Top tier WRs and elite are a bit of a different thing are they not.As a poster said...he is not Calvin or Julio. He is not some physical freak.He runs great routes and figths for balls in traffic too. Not sure what else a guy has to do to be a "top tier" guy.
ok, we just obviously don't have the same definitions of terms.top tier, means exactly that. TOP tier. TOP tier, to me, is the small elite bunch.The next tier, therefore, cannot be TOP tier, because they arent at the top... they're underneath the top tier. 2nd best if you will. That aside, I would put Jennings near the bottom of the 2nd tier, which is still pretty good. Im not saying the guy is crap, he's good and at times very good. But Ive already listed guys Id rather have before him
 
Now arguing semantics of top tier.Nobody said elite.Top tier WRs and elite are a bit of a different thing are they not.As a poster said...he is not Calvin or Julio. He is not some physical freak.He runs great routes and figths for balls in traffic too. Not sure what else a guy has to do to be a "top tier" guy.
ok, we just obviously don't have the same definitions of terms.top tier, means exactly that. TOP tier. TOP tier, to me, is the small elite bunch.The next tier, therefore, cannot be TOP tier, because they arent at the top... they're underneath the top tier. 2nd best if you will. That aside, I would put Jennings near the bottom of the 2nd tier, which is still pretty good. Im not saying the guy is crap, he's good and at times very good. But Ive already listed guys Id rather have before him
Fair enough...I think the top 10% (and that was giving you your list...which I disagree with) was a good indicator of top tier.I certainly don't see what VJax has done to be considered better than Jennings...and its not as if he was off suffering with a bad QB who did not throw the ball much either.And to put him in the bottom of the 2nd tier is pretty odd as well.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?

I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.

 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
That's not what's being argued. I wasn't arguing for Fantasy's sake, but real NFL's sake.His #s in GB cant be denied. I just feel that talent wise, there are a group of much better receivers.No way to prove or disprove that, as it's only subjective thought.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
Yes, that production should be considered near the top, but other WR's could post similar numbers in that system. Jennings is a slightly above average talent in a GREAT system. He wouldn't post near that anywhere else.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
Yes, that production should be considered near the top, but other WR's could post similar numbers in that system. Jennings is a slightly above average talent in a GREAT system. He wouldn't post near that anywhere else.
In NE he would.Maybe Denver, with Peyton.NYG too.Just off the top of my head.
 
In NE he would.Maybe Denver, with Peyton.NYG too.Just off the top of my head.
So in order to be good, he needs an awesome quarterback and a WR friendly scheme. Doesn't sound like a top talent to me.Dawane Bowe is awesome with a lump of manure as a supporting cast. He is top talent.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
Yes, that production should be considered near the top, but other WR's could post similar numbers in that system. Jennings is a slightly above average talent in a GREAT system. He wouldn't post near that anywhere else.
I guess this is where I potentially have to disagree with people sometimes. Sure, other receivers COULD POTENTIALLY post the same numbers, yet we don't know that. I listed off what we know to be a fact . . . what Jennings has produced with a 5 year track record. Anything else is just a guess.Put another way, the logic now is that with Tom Brady at QB, anyone can put up big receiving numbers. Except for years, WRs and TEs put up below average if not poor numbers for the first 6 years in Brady's career.Look at Brees over his career. He's put up great numbers passing in NO and very good numbers on SD. But both those teams didn't reaally produce a WR with unstoppable, unbeliveable numbers even though most years he throes the ball 630+ times.So sure, it sounds reasonable to think that other receivers could do what Jennings has done, but we have no way of knowing. Similarly, if you take Jennings (or any other productive receiver) and ship him off to the Browns or Jags, they won't produce at the same level. That doesn't mean they weren't productive in a better system with a top QB.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In NE he would.Maybe Denver, with Peyton.NYG too.Just off the top of my head.
So in order to be good, he needs an awesome quarterback and a WR friendly scheme. Doesn't sound like a top talent to me.Dawane Bowe is awesome with a lump of manure as a supporting cast. He is top talent.
As I just mentioned, put any good or productive QB on a team that runs a lot, has a mediocre QB, does not have a high octane passing attack and they will struggle to put up 1200/10 seasons. Look at someone like Santonio Holmes . . . or Anquan Boldin (so far in BAL).I think what you are saying by extension is that WR numbers can go up playing with HOF worthy QBs in a passing friendly system. That doesn't mean Jennings isn't a good receiver.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
Your post made me curious about the numbers. Figured I'll just share:
Code:
Rk Player            GS Rec Yds  Y/R   TD Y/G 1  Larry Fitzgerald  79 467 6543 14.01 49 82.8 2  Roddy White       79 477 6509 13.65 42 81.4 3  Reggie Wayne      81 481 6369 13.24 36 79.6 4  Wes Welker        67 557 6119 10.99 31 79.5 5  Brandon Marshall  75 483 6057 12.54 33 79.7 6  Calvin Johnson    72 372 5983 16.08 49 78.7 7  Andre Johnson     62 403 5822 14.45 36 95.4 8  Greg Jennings     71 349 5573 15.97 46 75.3 9  Steve Smith       75 362 5459 15.08 29 73.8 10 Marques Colston   54 383 5273 13.77 40 73.2
The list is sorted by total yards. Jennings is 8th in total yards, 14th in receptions, 5th in yards per reception, and 4th in TDs over that time frame (2007-present). Side note: I found it interesting that Randy Moss is still the TD leader over that period, despite having not having played for about the past season and a half. Insane.
 
Over the past 5 seasons, Jennings has averaged 4.6 receptions, 75 yards, and 0.62 TD per game. That works out to 74-1200-10 over a full season. Are people really going to debate if that level of production is on the top side of NFL receivers?I am not saying that other WRs could not post similar numbers in GB. I am saying, however, that that level of production should be considered near the top of the NFL wide receiving corps when looked at overall.
Yes, that production should be considered near the top, but other WR's could post similar numbers in that system. Jennings is a slightly above average talent in a GREAT system. He wouldn't post near that anywhere else.
I guess this is where I potentially have to disagree with people sometimes. Sure, other receivers COULD POTENTIALLY post the same numbers, yet we don't know that. I listed off what we know to be a fact . . . what Jennings has produced with a 5 year track record. Anything else is just a guess.Put another way, the logic now is that with Tom Brady at QB, anyone can put up big receiving numbers. Except for years, WRs and TEs put up below average if not poor numbers for the first 6 years in Brady's career.Look at Brees over his career. He's put up great numbers passing in NO and very good numbers on SD. But both those teams didn't reaally produce a WR with unstoppable, unbeliveable numbers even though most years he throes the ball 630+ times.So sure, it sounds reasonable to think that other receivers could do what Jennings has done, but we have no way of knowing. Similarly, if you take Jennings (or any other productive receiver) and ship him off to the Browns or Jags, they won't produce at the same level. That doesn't mean they weren't productive in a better system with a top QB.
Thank you. Geting really tired of hearing "Player X is awesome or sucks because HYPOTHETICAL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!!!"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you. Geting really tired of hearing "Player X is awesome or sucks because HYPOTHETICAL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!!!"
We're discussing an already pretty darn good receiver who has played with 2 hall of fame QBs.If you think that shouldnt be taken into account, you're just staring through homerized glasses.
 
Now we get to the crux of it...and its as I thought. "talent" and you are figuring this by what? Measurables correct?

I think people underestimate his talent because he does not have Johnson's frame or top tier speed.

 
I believe this based on James Jones intense offseason workouts (for the first time in his career), and his decent first game where he played the majority of snaps which is unusual for him. Also because of Greg Jennings grumpy attitude of late, his relative disappearance in the first game, the last year of his contract, and the Packers needs elsewhere especially cornerback. Lastly, the emergency of Cobb as a threat makes it easier to get rid of Jennings. A healthy Jennings will fetch more than Jones in a trade.Jennings supposed "groin injury" late in the game may be real only in the sense McCarthy told him he's going to be traded to Miami, which was a real kick in the groin. Plus its cover to keep Jennings from being injured against the Bears while the talks are being finalized. James Jones = sleeper WR of the year.
I missed this article on Jones a few weeks ago in the Milwaukee paper (it was actually printed a month earlier) it opened my eyes. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jones-shapes-up-for-season-hj6lb61-167785225.html
 
Thank you. Geting really tired of hearing "Player X is awesome or sucks because HYPOTHETICAL ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!!!"
We're discussing an already pretty darn good receiver who has played with 2 hall of fame QBs.If you think that shouldnt be taken into account, you're just staring through homerized glasses.
I just don't think it's particularly helpful to frame an argument in terms of unknowable hypotheticals. There are just too many ways to spin things - you could claim that all the GB receivers are just somewhat above average, but having 5 of them makes them all seem awesome. Or Tom Brady is only good because of Bellicheck's genius system. Does Stafford make Calvin awesome or the other way around? Maybe it's 35-65? Sure, having Favre and Rodgers has certainly helped, but there are so many variables that go into a player's production - offensive system, coaching, opponents, weather, teammates, etc - that it is a fool's errand to say what they would have done if you tweak the variables here or there. Better to just give players credit for what they have actually done here in the real world, and only a select few have done what Jennings has over the past 5 years.
 
Greg Jennings is a good player, but not great. I liked him a ton out of Western Michigan. His YAC ability/route running is very good. To disregard having two potential HOF QB's throwing to him is ignorant. Marques Colston is a fraction of himself without Drew Brees, etc.

Elite QB's have multiple advantages:

-More passing attempts

-More red zone targets

-Better location on targets

-etc

What happened to Bill Schroeder? Brett Favre made him from nothing to relevant. Same with Antonio Freeman.

Looking at career numbers means nothing either because these two QB's have been throwing to him. Give Jennings a QB such as Kevin Kolb/Skelton and guarantee he doesn't put up Fitzgerald numbers...he just isn't in that class.

ETA: The discussion of trading him to keep James Jones is a :fishing: trip

 
Last edited by a moderator:
'benson_will_lead_the_way said:
To disregard having two potential HOF QB's throwing to him is ignorant.
I guess Jerry Rice was average and playing with two HOFers is what made him good. Obviously I am not being serious, but all we have to evaluate Jennings by is his career in GB. He hasn't played anywhere else.
 
The premise that Jones' "improvement" this summer is somehow leading the Packers to trade Jennings is a joke and hardly worth addressing. Jones only worked hard for the first time because he was a free agent. That is, in itself, an indictment of how lazy Jones is. There is no reason for the Packers organization to think that Jones' hands, route running, or work ethic has changed for the better. Whether Jennings is going to be re-signed by the Packers depends mostly on whether the organization can afford him in light of all of the other talented players at other positions they also want to keep.

The debate around Jennings' talent is more interesting. I view Jennings as an elite route runner with high end hands. He may be the best route runner in the league (with the possible exception of Reggie Wayne). He is not blazing fast or tall and can't jump like some of the super athletic WRs, but his route running skills allow him to get open over an over again for long gains despite being the primary focus of defenses. As has been said, his strengths are hard for the typical NFL fan to assess watching the games on TV.

Yes, he has had great QBs, but he is also not being force fed the ball. The guy has the most 40+ yard catches in the NFL since 2007. His average yards per catch is almost always at the top of the league. His targets per game are noticeably lower than the "elite" receivers. For example, in 2010, Jennings had only 125 total targets. That's 7.8 targets a game to produce top 5 WR numbers. Jennings is a lot better than people here think.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top