Halfway point of season, time for 1st look at 2014 NFL draft (1 Viewer)

[Andy Dufresne]

All right, I'll give you Fluker. But the Browns' line has much more talent across it now than the Chargers' did then. So the Fluker pick is an outlier.

Anyway, since the Browns have decent tackles, I don't see the need to take an interior lineman with a top 10 pick.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I'd don't get the Dion Jordan love in that redraft or grading. All he needs is playing time? He's not getting playing time because he's a one dimensional guy who isn't even doing that one thing well. He's got what, 1 sack on the year? Pretty much the entire negative column of his scouting report is rearing it's ugly head so far and very little of the positive is. He'd be a mid-first selection at best in a do over IMO.

You are right, he only has one sack but to be fair, he has only gotten on the field a lil-over 28% of the time according to Roto World:

Jordan has only played a little over 28% of the defensive snaps so far this season, according to the Miami Herald.

Spin:
Jordan has become a situational player for Miami in his rookies season. He has show incredible athleticism and has a knack of making a big play but still the Dolphins are taking it slow with their first-round pick.

So it does appear he's not being given much of an opportunity.

PFF said mentions his playing time when they posted OLB/DE Dion Jordan's grade but they qualified why they are high on him even though he's not racking up sacks he is applhying pressure on his limited snaps:

3. Dion Jordan, DE, Miami Dolphins

Grade: +3.2

Snaps: 145

Analysis: Purely a situational player and even then it’s a strictly obvious passing downs one. That means we can’t expect the kind of contribution we saw from Aldon Smith in his rookie year but his 14 quarterback disruptions on 94 pass rushing snaps are a useful return. Playing time is the biggest thing holding him back.

I didn't cut and paste the explanation that Matt Miller provided when he did his re-draft but here it is. Miller thinks the Phins have not been successful scheming him into game situations:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1831087-matt-millers-midseason-2013-nfl-re-draft#/articles/1831087-matt-millers-midseason-2013-nfl-re-draft/page/4

Matt Miller's Midseason 2013 NFL Re-Draft
By Matt Miller
(NFL Draft Lead Writer) on October 30, 2013

3. Oakland RaidersOriginal Pick: CB D.J. Hayden, Houston

Traded with Miami to pick No. 12

The Oakland Raiders were facing a very tough offseason, and with little in draft picks or salary cap money, they had to trade back to secure extra picks for the overhaul needed on the roster. That led to them dropping back nine spots so the Miami Dolphins could come up for Dion Jordan. If the draft were today, the Raiders wouldn't be moving that pick.

Re-Draft Pick: DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon

Dion Jordan hasn't made huge news, but anyone paying attention has seen the edge defender playing well when given snaps. The Miami Dolphins' struggles to scheme him into the game plan are not because of any lack of ability on his part.

Jordan would give the Raiders a young pass-rusher to work into the lineup as an outside linebacker or defensive end, depending on the down and distance.

While D.J. Hayden has been fine, he's not been the playmaker Jordan could be.

When I first saw the re-draft Dion Jordan did sort of stick out as being ranked too high but I must confess, I am not sold on the Dolphin coaching staff. It is possible they haven't found ways to get Dion on the field because, well... He's NOT getting on the field much but when has, he was applying pressure.

So its possible he has the goods and that he will start producing once the coaches figure out how to get him more involved and I'm sure he has things to work out and his skill set limits him to pressure packages but its difficult to find guys who rush the passer and it appears the Phins found one even if he's not getting take downs right now.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Do the Rams really need another LB picked that high? They already have Laurenitis and Ogletree there, is that 3rd guy that neccesary to be a stud as well? Just seems like they could use help in a LOT of other positions than taking a LB at #6 overall.

I agree, IMO safety is most needed position.if they have two top ten picks, I think they take dixon, alabama safety, consensus top at position, with second... MAYBE after a trade down, but that would probably be too risky, especially if he tests like a blue chip athlete at combine...

don't think there is any way he drops to second round, the safety position has become too valuable... he might be a comparable prospect to vaccaro and reid, in what was an outstanding year for safeties...

they need CB more than LB (finnegan looks like he is hitting the wall with seriously eroding skills, making $15 mil this year) and maybe DT, too... brockers is a future star, but langford not a difference maker, and makes more than he is worth.

on offense, they need OL (OT and several interior OL), stacy playing well but seastrunk and gordon could be upgrades (and teams need two, I think richardson will end being a stopgap)...

they are probably more likely to go in first than thomas...

everybody agrees STL needs a QB, just not on whether starter or upgraded backup/developmental-type... even if they don't use a first, they might use a second, depending on who is else is there (at that point, if they haven't already taken one by then, I hope they use no later than a third, and get a prospect like the Georgia QB)...

some think despite drafting four WRs since 2012, they still don't have a WR1, and should get watkins, evans or lee...

with cook and kendricks, TE might be only offensive position not likely to be at least in play for a high pick... than again, cook hasn't lit it up, and kendricks will be in the third year of his contract... but I don't see it in first.

i think OL and safety most likely with two firsts.

too many permutations by second...

I agree with Bob that the Rams need offensive inemen and lack a #1 WR after using many high draft picks on the receiver position but that seems to hint the issue is either in the pro-personnel dept or the coaching staff.

The Rams have invested most of their high picks on the defensive line but they still can't seem to stop the run so if a LB is rated higher than available O-Linemen or WRs then I wouldn't rule it out.

I am just not sure why St. Louis hasn't been able to hit on any of the high draft picks they've thrown at the WR position but that should be discussed more because that seems to be an issue.

 

[cstu]

I am just not sure why St. Louis hasn't been able to hit on any of the high draft picks they've thrown at the WR position but that should be discussed more because that seems to be an issue.

Austin is the only one that's been high. Quick was the 33rd pick but they knew he was going to need time.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I am just not sure why St. Louis hasn't been able to hit on any of the high draft picks they've thrown at the WR position but that should be discussed more because that seems to be an issue.

Austin is the only one that's been high. Quick was the 33rd pick but they knew he was going to need time.

I am just not sure why St. Louis hasn't been able to hit on any of the high draft picks they've thrown at the WR position but that should be discussed more because that seems to be an issue.

Austin is the only one that's been high. Quick was the 33rd pick but they knew he was going to need time.

Over the last three years the St. Louis Rams have used the following picks on the WR position.

2011

3rd round pick on WR Austin Pettis

4th round pick on WR Greg Salis

2012

2nd round pick on WR Brian Quick

4th round pick on WR Chris Givens

2013

1st, 2nd and 7th round picks (also swapped positions in 3rd round) to move-up to take WR Tavon Austin

3rd round pick on WR Stedman Bailey

Grand total:

1 - 1st round draft pick

2 - 2nd round draft picks

2 - 3rd round draft picks

2 - 4th round draft picks

Not to mention the 7th round pick as part of the Tavon Austin package or the 2nd round draft pick used on TE Lance Kendricks in 2011 or the 4th round pick on WR Marty Giliard in the 2010 draft.

THAT is a lot of draft picks IMHO to devote to the receiver position. It would seem that they have not gotten the sort of return on investment that they would have hoped for.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The reason I pointed out the Rams WR case is because I think Sam Bradford has talent so last offseason I poured over EVERY catch of the Ram WRs and came away shaking my head.

They sucked.

I mean, they suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

I couldn't believe it.

I thought that Chris Givens had flashed and was worth pursuing because I felt the Rams would improve their O-line with the extra draft picks acquired in the RG III deal with Washington. They didn't, they used the top pick on WR Tavon Austin and instead of targeting an OT in the draft they went with OT Jake Long in free agency. I thought that was a mistake and then I felt they compounded that mistake by dishing all of those picks to move-up for a 176 lb 5'9 WR and that was before I saw Austin in the preseason where he looked 'turrible' IMHO.

I don't think the issue is with Bradford but that kid has been beaten from pillar to post behind a pourus offensive line and he STILL doesn't have a decent WR to throw to.

When I went over EVERY CATCH of the St. Louis WRs from 2012 I saw limited skill but the main thing was they were sloppy running routes. No consistency. They looked bad, just bad all around. The only guy who flashed any sort of athleticism was Givens but so-far this year he's the invisible man. That hints a coaching issue.

Now with the QB change we can see that Sam Bradford was providing 'decent' quarterbacking. Now you get to see Clemmons who Bernie Kosar called out in the preseason and everyone gasped that Kosar would 'dare' tell the truth that Kellen Clemmons basically sucks. He does, he sucks and now everyone can see it with their own lying eyes. Kosar was right, Kellen Clemmons is 'turrible'.

Kosar also said that the Ram WRs were 'horrible' and he was right. I know, I did the homework and poured over every catch from last year. They do suck. Also in that preseason game against the Browns I zeroed in on WR Tavon Austin to see why the Rams moved up to get him and I came away shaking my head because, HE SUCKED. He really sucked but it was the preseason and I thought, well he's got to improve but so-far I'm not impressed with his rookie season.

So my take on the Rams is, QB Sam Bradford has the skills but he lacks solid pass protection, he didn't have much of a running game before he got injujred this year but he's had that in the past so that isn't a big issue IMHO, but his WRs are still horrible.

Add, I think their is a coaching issue. That offense sucks, the scheme should be changed, the WR coach needs to go and unfortunately the only keepes I see of that group are Givens and Austin. I think they should go whole-hog after some vet WR like Hakeem Nicks in the offseason and if they get a crack at a legit #1 WR in the draft, they need to pull the trigger.

So far they've squandered a lot of the RG III picks and still haven't found a legit #1 WR.

 

[nobiz]

Philly papers all on Manziel to PHI.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20131103_Johnny_Manziel_would_be_a_perfect_fit_for_the_Eagles.html

 

[bulger2holt]

Rams are going to have 2 top 5-6 picks. Please keep losing Redskins

 

[bulger2holt]

They haven't gotten return from their QB position either. Is the underperforming QB causing the talented WRs to underperform? Or the underperforming WRs causing the talented QB to underperform? Or both?

Why did you do that? We already have too many pages from Bob Magaw's Bible of Blame about Bradford. Now we're gonna have more scrolls about how the o-line has failed to part the Red Sea for him.

*screenshot of post in case of renegade Mod*

The reason I pointed out the Rams WR case is because I think Sam Bradford has talent so last offseason I poured over EVERY catch of the Ram WRs and came away shaking my head.

They sucked.

I mean, they suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

I couldn't believe it.

I thought that Chris Givens had flashed and was worth pursuing because I felt the Rams would improve their O-line with the extra draft picks acquired in the RG III deal with Washington. They didn't, they used the top pick on WR Tavon Austin and instead of targeting an OT in the draft they went with OT Jake Long in free agency. I thought that was a mistake and then I felt they compounded that mistake by dishing all of those picks to move-up for a 176 lb 5'9 WR and that was before I saw Austin in the preseason where he looked 'turrible' IMHO.

I don't think the issue is with Bradford but that kid has been beaten from pillar to post behind a pourus offensive line and he STILL doesn't have a decent WR to throw to.

When I went over EVERY CATCH of the St. Louis WRs from 2012 I saw limited skill but the main thing was they were sloppy running routes. No consistency. They looked bad, just bad all around. The only guy who flashed any sort of athleticism was Givens but so-far this year he's the invisible man. That hints a coaching issue.

Now with the QB change we can see that Sam Bradford was providing 'decent' quarterbacking. Now you get to see Clemmons who Bernie Kosar called out in the preseason and everyone gasped that Kosar would 'dare' tell the truth that Kellen Clemmons basically sucks. He does, he sucks and now everyone can see it with their own lying eyes. Kosar was right, Kellen Clemmons is 'turrible'.

Kosar also said that the Ram WRs were 'horrible' and he was right. I know, I did the homework and poured over every catch from last year. They do suck. Also in that preseason game against the Browns I zeroed in on WR Tavon Austin to see why the Rams moved up to get him and I came away shaking my head because, HE SUCKED. He really sucked but it was the preseason and I thought, well he's got to improve but so-far I'm not impressed with his rookie season.

So my take on the Rams is, QB Sam Bradford has the skills but he lacks solid pass protection, he didn't have much of a running game before he got injujred this year but he's had that in the past so that isn't a big issue IMHO, but his WRs are still horrible.

Add, I think their is a coaching issue. That offense sucks, the scheme should be changed, the WR coach needs to go and unfortunately the only keepes I see of that group are Givens and Austin. I think they should go whole-hog after some vet WR like Hakeem Nicks in the offseason and if they get a crack at a legit #1 WR in the draft, they need to pull the trigger.

So far they've squandered a lot of the RG III picks and still haven't found a legit #1 WR.

Is their a true #1 WR in this draft that will be availble around #5 or #6? Should the Rams take him instead of Mathews or Lewan?

 

[cstu]

Is their a true #1 WR in this draft that will be availble around #5 or #6? Should the Rams take him instead of Mathews or Lewan?

Mike Evans...if he runs in the 4.5's.

 

[bulger2holt]

Is their a true #1 WR in this draft that will be availble around #5 or #6? Should the Rams take him instead of Mathews or Lewan?

Mike Evans...if he runs in the 4.5's.

Is he the Vincent Jackson clone?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Is their a true #1 WR in this draft that will be availble around #5 or #6? Should the Rams take him instead of Mathews or Lewan?

I haven't taken, well have only taken a quick peek or two at the QBs but haven't taken any real looks at the other positions so I don't know about the WR class.

Of the QBs, um, you want to stick with Sam Bradford unless you've got a top-three pick because their are only two QBs who I feel comfy with of this class so-far.

If I were the Rams, how would I try to land a legit #1 WR?

Their are two young guys I would make a serious run at.

1. WR Justin Blackmon

This guy is the real-deal but he's got a real problem with booze.

He is up for reinstatement next year.

High-risk/high-reward.

I'd go for broke and offer my 2nd round draft pick for him. The Jags would pounce on it and I think he will be reinstated next year. He is seeking or he already is in treatment. He's failed in the past or he would never be avaialble but I would take the risk because of his vast talent and considering how many blown draft picks that the Rams have squandered and gotten ziltch in return. My gawd, a second for Justin Blackmon is a bargain.

2. WR Josh Gordon

I'd offer a 1st round pick for him. The Browns would likely pounce on that price. Gordon's issue is pot which isn't nearly as chemically addictive as booze. Gordon came into the league as a chronologically young person, only 21 and very-VERY immature. He's been beaten up and I think he is slowly coming around and he will stay on the straight and narrow. HIs talent is off the charts. A first round pick for a guy who is a serious, legitimate #1 WR would instantly propell Sam Bradford and that pathetic passing attack and if you look at Gordon's impact on WR Greg Little. G-Little is horrible without Josh Gordon but check his statistical turnaround when Gordon gets inserted into the lineup. He changes overnight.

So the impact that Josh Gordon would have on WR Chris Givens and WR Tavon Austin and the Rams TEs, not to mention the impact he would make on QB Sam Bradford, triples his impact accross many positions.

If I were the Jags I'd pounce on a 2nd for Justin Blackmon but if I am the Browns I decline a 1st round pick for WR Josh Gordon but I don't think the Rams would consider either deal. They would move-up for a 176 lb 5-9 slot WR but they lack the guts to get a, big-tall-strong legit #1 WR.

I don't have a clue if their are any #1 WRs in the upcoming draft but I do know of two legit #1 WRs who probably 'could' be acquired and what I would do if I were the Rams.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Yahoo Shutdown Corner names the top needs of every NFL team looking ahead to next year's draft.

Do you agree or disagree with how they view the biggest needs of each team?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/2014-nfl-draft-report-gamecocks-quarles-come-32-200828150--nfl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

2014 NFL Draft Report; ... all 32 teams’ biggest needs

By Eric EdholmNovember 7, 2013 3:08 PM Shutdown Corner

Early NFL team draft needs

We're about halfway through the NFL season, and personnel matters are becoming more clear. In lieu of our premature mock draft series (which now has been on an overdue, two-week hiatus), we present to you an early look at what teams might be seeking in next May's draft.

AFC East

Buffalo Billshttp://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/buf
1. Safety 2. Right tackle 3. Outside linebacker
Both safety spots could stand upgrading, especially if Jairus Byrd moves on. But with a high first-rounder? Not sure.

Miami Dolphins
1. Offensive tackle 2. Offensive guard 3. Tight end
Both tackle spots likely will need reinforcements, as will guard following the Incognito-Martin saga.

New England Patriots
1. Defensive tackle 2. Wide receiver 3. Interior offensive line
Patching together inside on defense only will work for so long. They have drafted one DT (Ron Brace) higher than the fourth round since 2004.

New York Jets
1. Wide receiver 2. Offensive guard 3. Tight end
This one is obvious. If you're going to build around Geno Smith, you have to give him playmakers. They have few now.

AFC North
Baltimore Ravens
1. Tight end 2. Wide receiver 3. Offensive tackle
Notice a theme here? The offense has been miserable following the Super Bowl victory, and they'll seek players who can separate.

Cincinnati Bengals
1. Linebacker 2. Defensive tackle 3. Defensive back
The LB group is somewhat underwhelming, but the Bengals are deep enough to take any talented defender to keep beefing up.

Cleveland Browns
1. Quarterback 2. Running back 3. Wide receiver
No team has bigger voids or questions at all three positions, except for perhaps the Jacksonville Jaguars. Quarterback is most pressing.

Pittsburgh Steelers
1. Left tackle 2. Safety 3. Wide receiver
We've been screaming it for years: Find a left tackle. They have no choice now. Replacing Troy Polamalu and Ryan Clark will need to happen soon, too.

AFC South
Houston Texans
1. Right tackle 2. Quarterback 3. Outside linebacker
Some might say QB first, but we're assuming that Case Keenum and Gary Kubiak finish strong and return. The right side of the line is weak.

Indianapolis Colts
1. Wide receiver 2. Offensive line 3. Defensive line
With no first-rounder, they must wait, but there will be changes at receiver and depth and talent are needed along both fronts.

Jacksonville Jaguars
1. Quarterback 2. Running back 3. Wide receiver
No, they are not copying the Browns. They just happen to have some of the same, brutally obvious deficiencies.

Tennessee Titans
1. Cornerback 2. Offensive tackle 3. Quarterback
A lot depends on whether Alterraun Verner tests (and leaves via) free agency. If he stays, the team must groom some new OT talent.

AFC West
Denver Broncos
1. Offensive tackle 2. Defensive line 3. Cornerback
There are cracks in the infrastructure, and finding anchors and reinforcements at these key, tough-to-find positions is essential to contend for another year or more.

Kansas City Chiefs
1. Wide receiver 2. Tight end 3. Defensive end
The lack of downfield production has held the team back (as much as a 9-0 team can be held back), as has the lack of a seam-splitting tight end.

Oakland Raiders
1. Defensive end 2. Wide receiver 3. Right tackle
A full draft class! Rejoice! The Raiders have masked glaring needs this season at times, but the time is nigh to fill them, especially with Lamarr Houston perhaps leaving for big bucks.

San Diego Chargers
1. Outside linebacker 2. Running back 3. Offensive line
Another edge player on defense will be needed to attack and contain a diverse set of AFC West quarterbacks, plus depth at several other spots.

=============================================

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys
1. Defensive line 2. Offensive guard 3. Safety
The Cowboys must — absolutely must — get better up front, and they have decisions to make with Anthony Spencer and Jason Hatcher, with a horrible cap situation to boot.

New York Giants
1. Offensive tackle 2. Defensive end 3. Wide receiver
The Giants need to move on from David Diehl (and perhaps Will Beatty, even though he has been better of late), as well as add some pass-rushing juice.

Philadelphia Eagles
1. Quarterback 2. Defensive back 3. Wide receiver
Nick Foles has the chance to prove he's the guy, but Chip Kelly is almost certain to draft a QB at some point. Another DB, either a corner or safety, also is needed.

Washington Redskins
1. Defensive back 2. Wide receiver 3. Inside linebacker
Even after a draft class chock full of DB help, the Redskins could use more. They also must replenish the other spots, which could be affected by retirement and free agency.

NFC North
Chicago Bears
1. Defensive tackle 2. Safety 3. Quarterback
Depending on what happens with free-agent-to-be Jay Cutler, the Bears must get stronger up the middle defensively, too.

Detroit Lions
1. Wide receiver 2. Linebacker 3. Right tackle
It's imperative that Calvin Johnson is gifted a quality running mate (... and the cruel WR/Matt Millen joke perpetuates), but a few other spots need fixing, too.

Green Bay Packers
1. Tight end 2. Defensive line 3. Linebacker
It's not GM Ted Thompson's pattern to over-draft strictly for need, but this position certainly requires upgrading at some point high.

Minnesota Vikings
1. Quarterback 2. Defensive end 3. Linebacker
Even if Christian Ponder (not likely) or Josh Freeman (semi-likely) are back, the Vikings must consider taking a QB with their first-round pick before healing an aging defense.

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons
1. Defensive line 2. Offensive line 3. Running back
This team must get stronger and more talented in the trenches before it tries to solve ancillary future needs such as running back or tight end.

Carolina Panthers
1. Offensive tackle 2. Wide receiver 3. Defensive back
Jordan Gross, excellent as he is, is in the twilight of his career, and right tackle is a fixable spot, too. A physical receiver and a ballhawking DB would be next.

New Orleans Saints
1. Cornerback 2. Pass rusher 3. Offensive line
The top two needs are almost interchangeable, and a few spots on the offensive line likely will need reinforcements this coming season.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1. Quarterback 2. Defensive end 3. Tight end
Mike Glennon has played relatively well, but a coaching change (and a possible front-office shakeup) could bring with it a different quarterback. Another pass rusher is needed, too.

NFC West
Arizona Cardinals
1. Quarterback 2. Offensive line 3. Defensive line
The top two spots are musts, and you'd have to think after a defensive-themed draft in 2013, Bruce Arians will push for major upgrades for his offense.

St. Louis Rams
1. Safety 2. Quarterback 3. Offensive line
There are other needs, too, but an extra first-rounder should help satisfy most of them. Safety is pressing, but that could change after a decision is made on Sam Bradford's future.

San Francisco 49ers
1. Wide receiver 2. Defensive line 3. Defensive backs
There's no question the team will seek immediate contributors with playmaking ability at wideout given Anquan Boldin's age and the dearth at other spots.

Seattle Seahawks
1. Offensive tackle 2. Wide receiver 3. Tight end
The Seahawks really could stand up upgrade at three of five OL spots, and they'll seek pass-catching talent to help diversify their offense.

- - - - - - -​

 

[krsone21]

Since we're on the subject, I'll just put my rough draft up here. Never mind the order, I just copy/pasted in reverse order from the standings on NFL.com.

1. Jacksonville Jaguars - Teddy Bridgewater - QB - Louisville
2. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Marcus Mariota - QB - Oregon
3. Minnesota Vikings - Jadeveon Clowney - DE - South Carolina
4. New York Giants - Jake Matthews - OT - Texas A&M
5. St. Louis (from Washington Redskins) - Sammy Watkins - WR - Clemson
6. Pittsburgh Steelers - Taylor Lewan - OT - Michigan
7. Houston Texans - Anthony Barr - OLB - UCLA
8. Atlanta Falcons - Cyrus Kouandjio - OT - Alabama
9. Philadelphia Eagles - Bradley Roby - CB - Ohio State
10. Cleveland Browns - Derek Carr - QB - Fresno State
11. Buffalo Bills - Hasean Clinton-Dix - FS - Alabama
12. Tennessee Titans - Ifo Ekpre-Olomu - CB - Oregon
13. St. Louis Rams - Louis Nix - DT - Notre Dame
14. Oakland Raiders - Cameron Erving - OT - Florida State
15. Miami Dolphins - Antonio Richardson - OT - Tennessee
16. Baltimore Ravens - Khalil Mack - OLB - Buffalo
17. New York Jets - Mike Evans - WR - Texas A&M
18. Dallas Cowboys - Stephon Tuitt - DE - Notre Dame
19. Arizona Cardinals - Johnny Manziel - QB - Texas A&M
20. San Diego Chargers - Cyril Richardson - OG - Baylor
21. Chicago Bears - RaShede Hageman - DT - Minnesota
22. Carolina Panthers - Marqise Lee - WR - Southern California
23. Detroit Lions - Louchiez Purifoy - CB - Florida
24. Cleveland Browns (from Indianapolis Colts) - Jordan Matthews - WR - Vanderbilt
25. Green Bay Packers - Eric Ebron - TE - North Carolina
26. San Francisco 49ers - Allen Robinson - WR - Penn State
27. New England Patriots - Austin Seferian-Jenkins - TE - Washington
28. Cincinnati Bengals - Ryan Shazier - OLB - Ohio State
29. Seattle Seahawks - Jace Amaro - TE - Texas Tech
30. New Orleans Saints - Kyle Van Noy - OLB - Brigham Young
31. Denver Broncos - Vic Beasley - DE - Clemson
32. Kansas City Chiefs - Jason Verrett - CB - TCU

I see that you have the Raiders drafting a OT Cameron Erving. The Raiders already have Jared Veldheer and Menelik Watson who they just drafted in the 2nd round last year. Are you expecting the Raiders not to resign Veldheer or are you expecting them to move Watson to guard possibly? I'm not saying its a bad pick by the way, the offensive line can use more help. I would think though that a DE, OG, WR, or TE and possibly a QB if they think Pryor's not the answer would be nice to get in the 1st if a player for one of those positions is available.

 

[Ack88]

There really seems to be both a lack of premium RB talent here. I've yet to see a mock where an RB goes in the first round, nor have I seen any evaluations that advocate for an RB to go any higher than the middle of round #2. A bad year if you have a high pick and need an RB.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

I'm just of the mind that you don't take non-Left Tackle linemen in the top half of the draft. They could take one at the 2nd first rounder, but they need more skill players on offense.

Um no. There were two guards and a RT taken in the first eleven picks last year. If a player can play, you take him.

And what has it done for the teams that did that?

That will be bared over the next fews years, not 8 games. The point is that GMs have and will continue to pick quality linemen early in drafts. Your bias ignores the facts no matter how you spin it.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Hey college guys, what's the deal with Sammy Watkins? I remember he was unbelievable as a freshman, and a major disappointment as a sophomore. It seems in these threads that he's earned a stranglehold on the "presumptive first receiver off the board" role. Do we know why he sucked so much as a sophomore, then? Or is that a lingering red flag?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Counter32 - You can count on two fingers the number of interior offensive linemen that have been drafted in the top 10 picks of the draft in the last 12 years. The last one before Cooper and Warmack this year was Leonard Davis in 2001.

So it's not bias, it's statistics.

And anyway a) I said it was my opinion that teams shouldn't draft non LT O-linemen with top picks, and b) even if you want to talk about RT's, since we were talking about who the Browns should take, I doubt they have any desire to look for a replacement for either Thomas or Schwartz with their top pick.

(And the top tackles taken in the 2013 draft were done so with an eye on them eventually playing on the left side.)

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Again, there were three taken in the top ten last: 2 guards and a right tackle. Trend or outlier? We will see. My point is it is too simple minded to dismiss taking an olineman with a high pick unless he is a left tackle.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Is their a true #1 WR in this draft that will be availble around #5 or #6? Should the Rams take him instead of Mathews or Lewan?

1. WR Justin Blackmon

This guy is the real-deal but he's got a real problem with booze.

He is up for reinstatement next year.

High-risk/high-reward.

I'd go for broke and offer my 2nd round draft pick for him. The Jags would pounce on it and I think he will be reinstated next year. He is seeking or he already is in treatment. He's failed in the past or he would never be avaialble but I would take the risk because of his vast talent and considering how many blown draft picks that the Rams have squandered and gotten ziltch in return. My gawd, a second for Justin Blackmon is a bargain.

I'd take that deal.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

There really seems to be both a lack of premium RB talent here. I've yet to see a mock where an RB goes in the first round, nor have I seen any evaluations that advocate for an RB to go any higher than the middle of round

#2. A bad year if you have a high pick and need an RB.

Browns All-Pro Left Tackle Joe Thomas says that 100 yard running backs don't win games and he's right.

Very good article from a few days ago, goes over all of the top drafted RBs of the NFL draft going back to Adrian Peterson. The only RB who Joe Thomas feels would be worth a high draft pick.

Good read.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/1646/thomas-100-yard-runners-dont-win-games

Thomas: 100-yard runners don't win games

One of the great mysteries of the Cleveland Browns season is that they are 4-5 and feeling good despite having a near non-existent running game.

The team’s leading rusher has 262 carries and averages 2.6 yards per carry -- so what the heck?

Joe Thomas shrugs. The perennial Pro Bowler says it’s not a mystery.

“I’m looking at today’s NFL,” Thomas said in a recent conversation. “And I’m just not sure there’s a place for a running back anymore.”

Say what? Not a place?

“Fifty throws is the average,” Thomas said. “You get a guy who gains 100 yards, whoop dee do. It doesn’t win you games anymore.”

This from a guy who played in college at Wisconsin, the ultimate run team?

“If you’re a defensive coordinator and you give up a 100-yard rusher, you don’t really care,” he said. “It really doesn’t translate into winning many games.”

To repeat: A 100-yard back “doesn’t translate into winning many games.”

But, Thomas was told, since 1960, teams that have a back that carries 20 or more times in a game win 72 percent of the time.

“That’s simple,” he said with a smile. “They’re ahead so they run. I think it’s simple.”

Thomas asked his own question: When’s the last first-round running back other than Adrian Peterson to turn out?

Here are the first-round running backs since Thomas joined the league in 2007:

--2013: None

--2012: Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson

--2011: Mark Ingram

--2010: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best

--2009: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Chris Wells

--2008: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson

--2007: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch

The best and most consistent and most dependable have been Peterson and Lynch -- but Lynch is successful with his second team, having been traded.

“You have to have soembody who’s a once-in-a-generation talent like Adrian Peterson to really be a difference maker in the game,” Thomas said. “But you get one Josh Gordon, you throw him a jump ball in triple coverage and he goes up and catches a touchdown, you win the game. That’s one guy, one play. He can do that three times in a game. Calvin Johnson. You can go down the list of guys like that who are game-changers. A.J. Green.

“You have to change the entire defense to try to take somebody like that out of the game. And the running game is so hard. Because first of all you have to have six, sometimes seven guys blocking perfectly up front. One mistake and it’s a tackle for a loss. So you have to have seven victories. And then you have to have a RB beat a safety. Today’s safeties are pretty good.”

Thomas also pointed out that offenses are getting more sophisticated at giving the quarterback the extra second he needs to make the throw. Colin Kaepernick’s fakes, he said, freeze a defense for a second.

It would also explain why the Browns have won games when they got good quarterback play and lost when they didn’t.

“That’s why you see quarterbacks, you see the value on those guys going through the roof,” he said. “Mid-level quarterbacks get $20 million a year year because they’re that important. And those receivers are going to start going that way, too.

“And the running backs, unfortunately for them they just don’t have a place in this game anymore like they used to.”

To the point that Thomas said he wouldn’t draft a running back in the first round.

The starting point for this conversation? Why did Thomas think Richardson did not work out in Cleveland?

“I’m not gonna throw stones at a guy that’s not on the team anymore,” Thomas said. “But it’s hard to say it didn’t work out because we got a first-round pick for him. So obviously someone thinks he’s pretty good. I think it comes down to production wasn’t great here, so they felt a first-round pick would be a good trade.

“And, I’m sure in today’s day and age, the value on running backs is down.”

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I believe someone mentioned NFL Draft Scou0 earlier in this post and I just saw that Dane Brugler of NFL Scoutt.com put out a new mock recently.

Here it is.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-DaneBrugler

By Dane Brugler
NFLDraftScout.com Analyst

Is it silly to do a mock draft many months in advance of the 2014 NFL Draft? Sure, a lot will change between now and then.

But is it fun? Of course.

Mock drafts this early in the evaluation process are a way to gauge which prospects are highly thought of and where they might be a fit at the next level. Team needs will change. Prospects will boost or hurt their draft stock. But if next spring's NFL Draft were held tomorrow, this is how it might shake out. And no surprise about the first two projections.

The draft order was determined by a combined poll of NFLDraftScout.com staff.




NFL Mock Draft - 11/6/2013 Round 1

1. Jacksonville Jaguars (0-8)

Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Louisville: The prior regime in Jacksonville traded into the top-10 of the 2011 NFL Draft for Blaine Gabbert, but if the Jaguars are again stuck with a top-five pick next May, it's hard to believe they would pass up a quarterback here. Bridgewater tests off the charts in several categories, including toughness, intelligence and poise and has the talent to step in from day one and be "the guy" in Jacksonville.

2. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (0-8)

Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon: Head coach Greg Schiano inherited Josh Freeman when he was hired as the Buccaneers head coach and it didn't take long for the coach to replace Freeman at quarterback with third rounder Mike Glennon. Mariota doesn't scream pro-style quarterback, but teams are more willing than ever to gamble on athletic, high-ceiling quarterbacks.

3. Minnesota Vikings (1-7)

Brett Hundley, QB, UCLA: Minnesota is stuck in quarterback mediocrity with Christian Ponder, Matt Cassel and newly acquired Josh Freeman. So it's safe to say that the Vikings quarterback of the future isn't on the current roster and Hundley brings a lot of potential to the next level.

4. NY Giants (2-6)

Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina: One of the keys to the Giants' success over the years has been their ability to put pressure on the pocket off the edges, but New York currently ranks 31st in the NFL with five sacks over the first six games. And if Clowney is still available with this pick then it's a no-brainer, assuming they're comfortable with his effort concerns.

5. Houston Texans (2-6)

Anthony Barr, OLB, UCLA: After starting 2-0, the Texans have lost six straight and are on track to pick in the top-10 of the 2014 NFL Draft. But that doesn't mean this pick will be a quarterback, instead, Anthony Barr would desperately help a streaky Houston defense.

6. Pittsburgh Steelers (2-6)

Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M: The Steelers aren't a player away from seriously contending and need to rebuild at several key spots on the depth chart, including the offensive line. Matthews is a plug-and-play type who will give the Steelers a legitimate left tackle for the next decade. 7. Atlanta Falcons
(2-6) Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo: The Falcons need to add speed and power on defense, especially in the front seven to pressure the opponent's backfield. Mack offers both speed and strength with the versatile skill-set to rush as a stand-up linebacker or hand-in-the-dirt end.

8. Buffalo Bills (3-6)

C.J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama: The Bills have found themselves an impact middle linebacker with Kiko Alonso and could upgrade the outside linebacker spot with the athleticism and heady instincts of Mosley.

9. St. Louis Rams (from Washington) (3-6)

Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan: St. Louis added Jake Long in free agency last off-season, but the other tackle spot has been an issue, whether Rodger Saffold is on the field or not playing due to injuries. Lewan would give the Rams Michigan book-ends and more protection for Sam Bradford.

10. Oakland Raiders (3-5)

Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson: The jury is still out on Terrelle Pryor as the long-term solution for Oakland at quarterback, but regardless if they stick with him or not, the Raiders need to add more weapons at receiver. Watkins has special burst with the acceleration to be a home run threat, as well as, a reliable possession target.

11. St. Louis Rams (3-6)

Louis Nix, DT, Notre Dame: Coach Jeff Fisher loves defensive linemen. The Rams could use depth on the interior behind Michael Brockers and Kendall Langford to improve their shoddy run defense.

12. Baltimore Ravens (3-5)

Vic Beasley, DE, Clemson: The Ravens have a pair of talented pass rushers with Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil, but both will be on the wrong side of 30 entering next season. Beasley needs a little more seasoning, but has a high ceiling and the Ravens could see this spot as a bargain for his talent.

13. Cleveland Browns (4-5)

Derek Carr, QB, Fresno State: Barring injury, there is a good chance Brandon Weeden never suits up for the Browns again. And while Brian Hoyer is still in the team's plans, he's coming off an ACL injury and Cleveland needs to add a young arm to the mix. Enter Carr who has special arm talent and could be the first senior quarterback drafted.

14. Philadelphia Eagles (4-5)

Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M: How much fun would Johnny Football be in Chip Kelly's offense? Love him or hate him, you will watch. Manziel's backyard style of football is far from traditional, but his cocky, quick-thinking approach to the position just might fit what Kelly wants to do in Philly.

15. Arizona Cardinals (4-4)

Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Texas A&M: The Aggies have become somewhat of an offensive tackle factory. Although not yet a household name, Ogbuehi could be the third first round offensive tackle out of Texas A&M the past two years.

16. Miami Dolphins (4-4)

Cyrus Kouandjio, OT, Alabama: The Dolphins might be able to get by with their patchwork offensive line for now, but no question an upgrade is needed. Kouandjio is far from flawless and needs to improve his hand usage, but he has the lower body girth and mobility needed for the next level.

17. San Diego Chargers (4-4)

Zack Martin, OG, Notre Dame: The Chargers addressed the offensive line in the first round last April with D.J. Fluker, but it wouldn't be surprising to see them go back to the trenches and improve the interior of the offensive line. Martin lines up at left tackle for the Irish but projects best inside at guard in the pros.

18. Tennessee Titans (4-4)

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB, Oregon: The Titans defense has been up and down thus far in 2013, including several hiccups in the secondary. Ekpre-Olomu is still developing but has a very high NFL ceiling.

19. Chicago Bears (5-3)

Stephon Tuitt, DE, Notre Dame: The Bears depth at defensive tackle will be tested the rest of the season with Henry Melton and Nate Collins both done due to ACL injuries. Tuitt is an excellent athlete for his size and has a bright pro future.

20. NY Jets (5-4)

Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M: Although he's been a turnover machine, Geno Smith has done just enough to help the Jets stay competitive and will likely hold onto the starting gig for another year. To help him succeed, New York needs to add more targets for him and Evans brings a Vincent Jackson-like presence to the outside.

21. Dallas Cowboys (5-4)

Hasean Clinton-Dix, FS, Alabama: The Cowboys drafted the strong safety of the future last season with J.J. Wilcox, but free safety is a different discussion. Clinton-Dix would provide an immediate upgrade over Barry Church at free safety.

22. Detroit Lions (5-3)

Bradley Roby, CB, Ohio State: The Lions have spent early round draft picks on several cornerbacks (Darius Slay, Dwight Bentley) the past few seasons, but Detroit hasn't addressed the position in the first round since 1998 (Terry Fair). Roby has had a rocky junior season, but he still has first round ability if he can clear these mental mistakes.

23. Carolina Panthers (5-3)

Marqise Lee, WR, Southern California: Can the Panthers really go another offseason without finding more weapons for Cam Newton? Lee has been dinged up, but when healthy, he's a playmaker with the ball in his hands and would add instant life to the Panthers offense.

24. Cincinnati Bengals (6-3)

Ryan Shazier, OLB, Ohio State: The Bengals have found something with Vontaze Burfict, but are Rey Maualuga and James Harrison in the team's long-term plans? Shazier is a rangy and instinctive backer who offers a versatile skill-set to be effective rushing the passer or dropping in coverage.

25. Cleveland Browns (from Indianapolis) (4-5)

Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State: No one, not even the Browns, knows if Josh Gordon will be in Cleveland at this time next year, but regardless, the wide receiver position needs a boost. Robinson is a strong, athletic pass-catcher with size, speed and the instincts that should allow him to contribute as a rookie.

26. New Orleans Saints (6-2)

Kyle Van Noy, OLB, Brigham Young: As the Saints continue their transition to the 3-4 scheme, look for them to add pass rushers next off-season and Van Noy brings instincts and a motor than never quits.

27. San Francisco 49ers (6-2)

Jason Verrett, CB, TCU: San Francisco needs to get younger at cornerback and Verrett would be a good fit at nickel and also compete for a starting role as a rookie.

28. Green Bay Packers (5-3)

Jace Amaro, TE, Texas Tech: Incumbent Packers tight end Jermichael Finley is a free agent after this season so the Packers might be shopping for a new starter at the position next offseason.

29. New England Patriots (7-2)

RaShede Hageman, DT, Minnesota: Bill Belichick values versatile players, especially up front, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he really appreciates Hageman, who has played mostly zero and three technique in college but projects best to five-technique.

30. Denver Broncos (7-1)

Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri: The Broncos have one of the best pass rushers on the planet with Von Miller, but the Broncos' depth at the position has been tested with him dealing with off-field issues. Ealy is still developing into an all-around player, but he has the size, strength and edge quickness to be productive in the NFL.

31. Seattle Seahawks (8-1)

Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina: Zach Miller and rookie Luke Wilson are solid options at tight end for Seattle, but if a playmaker like Ebron is still available here, the Seahawks might have their own version of Vernon Davis.

32. Kansas City Chiefs (9-0)

Tajh Boyd, QB, Clemson: The Chiefs deserve credit for staying unbeaten through nine games, but not sure even Andy Reid believes Alex Smith is the true long-term option for the team at quarterback. Boyd would give Reid a Donovan McNabb-like prospect who can sit and learn behind Smith.

 

[jurb26]

At this point I'm pretty sure Mariota and Hundley won't declare. Neither are ready for the NFL and should go back.

 

[Ack88]

There really seems to be both a lack of premium RB talent here. I've yet to see a mock where an RB goes in the first round, nor have I seen any evaluations that advocate for an RB to go any higher than the middle of round

#2. A bad year if you have a high pick and need an RB.

Browns All-Pro Left Tackle Joe Thomas says that 100 yard running backs don't win games and he's right.

Very good article from a few days ago, goes over all of the top drafted RBs of the NFL draft going back to Adrian Peterson. The only RB who Joe Thomas feels would be worth a high draft pick.

Good read.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/1646/thomas-100-yard-runners-dont-win-games

Thomas: 100-yard runners don't win games

One of the great mysteries of the Cleveland Browns season is that they are 4-5 and feeling good despite having a near non-existent running game.

The team’s leading rusher has 262 carries and averages 2.6 yards per carry -- so what the heck?

Joe Thomas shrugs. The perennial Pro Bowler says it’s not a mystery.

“I’m looking at today’s NFL,” Thomas said in a recent conversation. “And I’m just not sure there’s a place for a running back anymore.”

Say what? Not a place?

“Fifty throws is the average,” Thomas said. “You get a guy who gains 100 yards, whoop dee do. It doesn’t win you games anymore.”

This from a guy who played in college at Wisconsin, the ultimate run team?

“If you’re a defensive coordinator and you give up a 100-yard rusher, you don’t really care,” he said. “It really doesn’t translate into winning many games.”

To repeat: A 100-yard back “doesn’t translate into winning many games.”

But, Thomas was told, since 1960, teams that have a back that carries 20 or more times in a game win 72 percent of the time.

“That’s simple,” he said with a smile. “They’re ahead so they run. I think it’s simple.”

Thomas asked his own question: When’s the last first-round running back other than Adrian Peterson to turn out?

Here are the first-round running backs since Thomas joined the league in 2007:

--2013: None

--2012: Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson

--2011: Mark Ingram

--2010: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best

--2009: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Chris Wells

--2008: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson

--2007: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch

The best and most consistent and most dependable have been Peterson and Lynch -- but Lynch is successful with his second team, having been traded.

“You have to have soembody who’s a once-in-a-generation talent like Adrian Peterson to really be a difference maker in the game,” Thomas said. “But you get one Josh Gordon, you throw him a jump ball in triple coverage and he goes up and catches a touchdown, you win the game. That’s one guy, one play. He can do that three times in a game. Calvin Johnson. You can go down the list of guys like that who are game-changers. A.J. Green.

“You have to change the entire defense to try to take somebody like that out of the game. And the running game is so hard. Because first of all you have to have six, sometimes seven guys blocking perfectly up front. One mistake and it’s a tackle for a loss. So you have to have seven victories. And then you have to have a RB beat a safety. Today’s safeties are pretty good.”

Thomas also pointed out that offenses are getting more sophisticated at giving the quarterback the extra second he needs to make the throw. Colin Kaepernick’s fakes, he said, freeze a defense for a second.

It would also explain why the Browns have won games when they got good quarterback play and lost when they didn’t.

“That’s why you see quarterbacks, you see the value on those guys going through the roof,” he said. “Mid-level quarterbacks get $20 million a year year because they’re that important. And those receivers are going to start going that way, too.

“And the running backs, unfortunately for them they just don’t have a place in this game anymore like they used to.”

To the point that Thomas said he wouldn’t draft a running back in the first round.

The starting point for this conversation? Why did Thomas think Richardson did not work out in Cleveland?

“I’m not gonna throw stones at a guy that’s not on the team anymore,” Thomas said. “But it’s hard to say it didn’t work out because we got a first-round pick for him. So obviously someone thinks he’s pretty good. I think it comes down to production wasn’t great here, so they felt a first-round pick would be a good trade.

“And, I’m sure in today’s day and age, the value on running backs is down.”

Thanks, Bracie.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

New week, new and I think this is an interesting mock.

http://q.usatoday.com/2013/11/12/the-potential-roethlisberger-effect-on-mays-nfl-draft/

Early mock draft: Week 11

1. Buccaneers
Marcus Mariota, QB Oregon

2. Jaguars
Teddy Bridgewater, QB Louisville

3. Falcons
Jadeveon Clowney, DE South Carolina

4. Vikings
Anthony Barr, LB UCLA

5. Texans
Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M

6. Bills
Sammy Watkins, WR Clemson

7. Steelers
Cyrus Kouandjio, OT Alabama

8. Rams (from WASH)
Taylor Lewan, OT Michigan

9. Raiders
Vic Beasley, DE Clemson

10. Giants
Khalil Mack, LB Buffalo

11. Rams
C.J. Mosley, LB Alabama

12. Browns
Mike Evans, WR Texas A&M

13. Dolphins
Brandon Scherff, OT Iowa

14. Ravens
Eric Ebron, TE North Carolina

15. Titans
Shilique Calhoun, DE Michigan State

16. Chargers
Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB Oregon

17. Eagles
Ra’Shede Hageman, DT Minnesota

18. Packers
Stephon Tuitt, DE Notre Dame

19. Bears
DaQuan Jones, DT Penn State

20. Cardinals
Antonio Richardson, OT Tennessee

21. Cowboys
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, S Alabama

22. Jets
Marqise Lee, WR USC

23. Bengals
Jason Verrett, CB TCU

24. Lions
Kyle Fuller, CB Virginia Tech

25. Panthers
Jace Amaro, TE Texas Tech

26. Browns (from IND)
Brett Hundley, QB UCLA

27. 49ers
Louis Nix III, NT Notre Dame

28. Patriots
Allen Robinson, WR Penn State

29. Saints
Lache Seastrunk, RB Baylor

30. Broncos
Louchiez Purifoy, CB Florida

31. Seahawks
Cameron Erving, OT Florida State

32. Chiefs
Ryan Shazier, LB Ohio State

*Draft order was determined by current record and strength of schedule. Dallas was adjusted to fill out official draft order per the current playoff picture.

Where is Johnny Manziel? Manziel is the absolute hardest prospect (possibly) in the 2014 NFL draft class to project. Some teams will love his attitude and play-making ability. Others will have him off the board completely for the same reasons. It only takes one team to fall in love with a player. But, which team will it be?



The two best fits for Manziel are with the Eagles and the Texans. Those teams may have found their QBs moving forward in Nick Foles and Case Keenum, respectively.



But we envision him slipping through the first round entirely for the following reasons:

• Manziel generally isn’t considered a Top 5 talent, and the Vikings would be giving up an elite defensive player to select the QB.
• The Steelers could consider Manziel, but they’re likely one of the teams that would pass due to his antics.
• If this weekend proved anything, the Bears seem set on moving forward with Jay Cutler at QB.
• The Browns prefer a big, strong-armed and mobile QB. Browns head coach Rob Chudzinski is fond of his days mentoring Cam Newton, and the team prefers a similar talent.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 4-5 years running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

At this point I'm pretty sure Mariota and Hundley won't declare. Neither are ready for the NFL and should go back.

Top 5 money, won't get any better not coming out in the draft.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Not a single RB projected in the 1st round. We're gonna have to start making rosters something like 1 RB, 3WR, 1 Flex(WR/RB), just not enough decent starters to go around for FF owners. Need to be able to go 4 wide.

 

[JShare87]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

Well said. I'm not sure how Mariotta is projected to go number 1 overall and JFF isn't in the first round. A lot of people have no clue what kind of player he is. He is one of the most accurate passers to come out in a long time. He can make all the throws. If you haven't watched a full A&M game please watch one. Don't just watch the highlights of him running around or the ESPN news stories about how he's a punk. Watch a full game and judge him based off of his performance. Outside of Bridgewater there isn't a more NFL ready QB.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm totally on board the Manziel bandwagon. I think Mariotta stays in school which makes Manziel a top 10 maybe top 5 pick.

Fresno State's Carr is a first rounder too.

 

[pantherclub]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

no offense but you are insane.

He is a small qb with a average arm. Not to mention the ryan leaf like qualities of a head case

 

[pantherclub]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

Well said. I'm not sure how Mariotta is projected to go number 1 overall and JFF isn't in the first round. A lot of people have no clue what kind of player he is. He is one of the most accurate passers to come out in a long time. He can make all the throws. If you haven't watched a full A&M game please watch one. Don't just watch the highlights of him running around or the ESPN news stories about how he's a punk. Watch a full game and judge him based off of his performance. Outside of Bridgewater there isn't a more NFL ready QB.

He is 6'1 200lbs.

 

[JShare87]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

Well said. I'm not sure how Mariotta is projected to go number 1 overall and JFF isn't in the first round. A lot of people have no clue what kind of player he is. He is one of the most accurate passers to come out in a long time. He can make all the throws. If you haven't watched a full A&M game please watch one. Don't just watch the highlights of him running around or the ESPN news stories about how he's a punk. Watch a full game and judge him based off of his performance. Outside of Bridgewater there isn't a more NFL ready QB.

He is 6'1 200lbs.

You're right you have to be 6'4 230 to play QB in the NFL like Brees, Wilson, Vick, Rodgers, Romo, RG3, and Stafford.

 

[pantherclub]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

no offense but you are insane.

He is a small qb with a average arm. Not to mention the ryan leaf like qualities of a head case

The eyes don't lie and he passes the eyeball test for me. His off the field stuff has made ESPN a lot of money so I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[JShare87]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

Johnny Football is incredibly accurate watch a full game and tell me he isn't. I'm lumping them together because they are all 6'2 or smaller. I guess one inch is a huge difference. Nice try go ahead and post some more garbage because that's what you hear on ESPN.

 

[Adam Harstad]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

no offense but you are insane.

He is a small qb with a average arm. Not to mention the ryan leaf like qualities of a head case

The eyes don't lie and he passes the eyeball test for me. His off the field stuff has made ESPN a lot of money so I take it with a grain of salt.

With all due respect, and not to say anything about Manziel (honestly, I've stopped watching college football, so I don't have an opinion one way or the other), but the eyes absolutely do lie. They do it all the time. Why do you think the success rate on 1st round NFL draft picks is so low?

 

[Time Kibitzer]

There really seems to be both a lack of premium RB talent here. I've yet to see a mock where an RB goes in the first round, nor have I seen any evaluations that advocate for an RB to go any higher than the middle of round

#2. A bad year if you have a high pick and need an RB.

Browns All-Pro Left Tackle Joe Thomas says that 100 yard running backs don't win games and he's right.

Very good article from a few days ago, goes over all of the top drafted RBs of the NFL draft going back to Adrian Peterson. The only RB who Joe Thomas feels would be worth a high draft pick.

Good read.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/1646/thomas-100-yard-runners-dont-win-games

Thomas: 100-yard runners don't win games

One of the great mysteries of the Cleveland Browns season is that they are 4-5 and feeling good despite having a near non-existent running game.

The team’s leading rusher has 262 carries and averages 2.6 yards per carry -- so what the heck?

Joe Thomas shrugs. The perennial Pro Bowler says it’s not a mystery.

“I’m looking at today’s NFL,” Thomas said in a recent conversation. “And I’m just not sure there’s a place for a running back anymore.”

Say what? Not a place?

“Fifty throws is the average,” Thomas said. “You get a guy who gains 100 yards, whoop dee do. It doesn’t win you games anymore.”

This from a guy who played in college at Wisconsin, the ultimate run team?

“If you’re a defensive coordinator and you give up a 100-yard rusher, you don’t really care,” he said. “It really doesn’t translate into winning many games.”

35 throws is the average actually, but really I don't think throwing the ball a lot necessarily leads to winning games any more than running the ball a lot does. Hell, the bottom 3 teams in passing attempts (Carolina, Seattle, San Fran) have a combined record of 21-7. Obviously it's fantastic when you have a pass offense like Denver that averages over 10 points scored more per game than any other team in the league, but I think it's generally pretty clear that the thing that best translates into winning games is having a good defense. Of the 10 teams that are currently two or more games above .500, 8 of those teams rank in the top 9 in points allowed per game.

 

[pantherclub]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

Johnny Football is incredibly accurate watch a full game and tell me he isn't. I'm lumping them together because they are all 6'2 or smaller. I guess one inch is a huge difference. Nice try go ahead and post some more garbage because that's what you hear on ESPN.

Tim Tebow was accurate in college as well

I have no clue what you guys are trying to say about ESPN. Are you saying they lied about all of his off the field instances?

 

[JShare87]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

Johnny Football is incredibly accurate watch a full game and tell me he isn't. I'm lumping them together because they are all 6'2 or smaller. I guess one inch is a huge difference. Nice try go ahead and post some more garbage because that's what you hear on ESPN.

Tim Tebow was accurate in college as wellI have no clue what you guys are trying to say about ESPN. Are you saying they lied about all of his off the field instances?

I'm not even going to respond to your Tebow comment. I mean most people that don't watch him play just go by all the crap they hear on ESPN. Forget the nickname forget the autograph stuff (which is a joke and says nothing negative about his character) watch him play one full game and tell me he isn't a legit top 5 pick. I've watched everyone of his games in their entirety since the Alabama game last year. He has some flaws of course but I can tell you right now arm strength and accuracy aren't one of them. His eyes are always downfield no matter what. I'm not tryin to make this thread about Manziel but I just hate that all of the sudden Mariota is a top 5 pick when he is no where close to the QB Manziel is. Mariota starts scrambling around if his first read isnt there. He Doesn't do it all the time but still drops his eyes way too early. Manziel stands tall in the pocket and goes through all his reads. Does he scramble around when nothing is there,Absolutely. The way I see it you either love him or you hate him and that's understandable. All I'm saying is watch a full game of his, not highlights a full game and I think you will have a different opinion about his draft stock.

 

[pantherclub]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

Johnny Football is incredibly accurate watch a full game and tell me he isn't. I'm lumping them together because they are all 6'2 or smaller. I guess one inch is a huge difference. Nice try go ahead and post some more garbage because that's what you hear on ESPN.

Tim Tebow was accurate in college as wellI have no clue what you guys are trying to say about ESPN. Are you saying they lied about all of his off the field instances?

I'm not even going to respond to your Tebow comment. I mean most people that don't watch him play just go by all the crap they hear on ESPN. Forget the nickname forget the autograph stuff (which is a joke and says nothing negative about his character) watch him play one full game and tell me he isn't a legit top 5 pick. I've watched everyone of his games in their entirety since the Alabama game last year. He has some flaws of course but I can tell you right now arm strength and accuracy aren't one of them. His eyes are always downfield no matter what. I'm not tryin to make this thread about Manziel but I just hate that all of the sudden Mariota is a top 5 pick when he is no where close to the QB Manziel is. Mariota starts scrambling around if his first read isnt there. He Doesn't do it all the time but still drops his eyes way too early. Manziel stands tall in the pocket and goes through all his reads. Does he scramble around when nothing is there,Absolutely. The way I see it you either love him or you hate him and that's understandable. All I'm saying is watch a full game of his, not highlights a full game and I think you will have a different opinion about his draft stock.

You could say the exact same thing about Ryan Leaf or Jeff George. Kids a spoiled headcase. Its going to take a certain type of team to draft him. You are here trying to convince me why he should be top five when its all of the mock drafts have him falling far. 6'1 200lb qb's with average arms are not good fits in the NFL.

 

[FUBAR]

For starters why in the hell are you lumping Rodgers, romo rg3 or stafford in there as they are all way bigger than johnny football

Brees is incredibly accurate and along with Wilson are aberrations at the position.

Johnny Football is incredibly accurate watch a full game and tell me he isn't. I'm lumping them together because they are all 6'2 or smaller. I guess one inch is a huge difference. Nice try go ahead and post some more garbage because that's what you hear on ESPN.

Tim Tebow was accurate in college as wellI have no clue what you guys are trying to say about ESPN. Are you saying they lied about all of his off the field instances?

I'm not even going to respond to your Tebow comment. I mean most people that don't watch him play just go by all the crap they hear on ESPN. Forget the nickname forget the autograph stuff (which is a joke and says nothing negative about his character) watch him play one full game and tell me he isn't a legit top 5 pick. I've watched everyone of his games in their entirety since the Alabama game last year. He has some flaws of course but I can tell you right now arm strength and accuracy aren't one of them. His eyes are always downfield no matter what. I'm not tryin to make this thread about Manziel but I just hate that all of the sudden Mariota is a top 5 pick when he is no where close to the QB Manziel is. Mariota starts scrambling around if his first read isnt there. He Doesn't do it all the time but still drops his eyes way too early. Manziel stands tall in the pocket and goes through all his reads. Does he scramble around when nothing is there,Absolutely. The way I see it you either love him or you hate him and that's understandable. All I'm saying is watch a full game of his, not highlights a full game and I think you will have a different opinion about his draft stock.

Drew Brees seems to like him. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Drew-Brees-Johnny-Manziel-is-absolutely-an-NFL-starter-111113

But frankly, Manziel is the 3rd best NFL prospect at his own school. Without checking the stats, I have a hard time thinking of a QB who has benefitted more from his OLine than Manziel. He's a good prospect, but he won't have the same protection in the NFL.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Drew Brees seems to like him. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Drew-Brees-Johnny-Manziel-is-absolutely-an-NFL-starter-111113

But frankly, Manziel is the 3rd best NFL prospect at his own school. Without checking the stats, I have a hard time thinking of a QB who has benefitted more from his OLine than Manziel. He's a good prospect, but he won't have the same protection in the NFL.

You're watching the Johnny Manziel that plays for Texas A&M, right? The A&M that's in the state of Texas? They wear maroon and white uniforms?

Sure he has a good o-line but the guy creates plays on his own a LOT.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Think of the word that is often applied to teams drafting consistently at the top of the draft - moribund.

It has a couple meanings:

1. near death
2. stagnant; without force or vitality

I think a personality like Manziel is just the type that a moribund franchise needs to turn things around - provided he can actually play football. That's the thing that has kind of gotten lost this year in all the brouhaha...Manziel is actually MUCH better this year than he was last year.

There are off field issues and then there are off field issues. I don't think JM's are all that egregious.

Think of how he could turn around franchises like Cleveland, Jacksonville, Minnesota, or Oakland if he brought his personality to town (and could actually play well, of course).

 

[Bob Magaw]

I'm totally on board the Manziel bandwagon. I think Mariotta stays in school which makes Manziel a top 10 maybe top 5 pick.

Fresno State's Carr is a first rounder too.

how would carr compare to his brother?

drafted high, but didn't pan out...

 

[Bob Magaw]

If Johnny Football lasts to the 2nd Round then 32 NFL teams need to have their heads examined. That guy has gone up against the best team in college football 405 yard running and both times he performed very well including a win in 2012 against Alabama.

I might not take him 1st but anything outside of the top 10 is armed robbery. He will sell tickets and he will be a lot of fun to watch in the NFL.

Well said. I'm not sure how Mariotta is projected to go number 1 overall and JFF isn't in the first round. A lot of people have no clue what kind of player he is. He is one of the most accurate passers to come out in a long time. He can make all the throws. If you haven't watched a full A&M game please watch one. Don't just watch the highlights of him running around or the ESPN news stories about how he's a punk. Watch a full game and judge him based off of his performance. Outside of Bridgewater there isn't a more NFL ready QB.

He is 6'1 200lbs.

You're right you have to be 6'4 230 to play QB in the NFL like Brees, Wilson, Vick, Rodgers, Romo, RG3, and Stafford.

brees is about 220...

point taken with wilson.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm totally on board the Manziel bandwagon. I think Mariotta stays in school which makes Manziel a top 10 maybe top 5 pick.

Fresno State's Carr is a first rounder too.

how would carr compare to his brother?

drafted high, but didn't pan out...

He's better.

Like Carson Palmer was better than Jordan

and

Matt Hasselbeck was better than Tim

and

Ty Detmer was better than Coy

In other words, I don't think it matters.

 

[FUBAR]

Drew Brees seems to like him. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Drew-Brees-Johnny-Manziel-is-absolutely-an-NFL-starter-111113

But frankly, Manziel is the 3rd best NFL prospect at his own school. Without checking the stats, I have a hard time thinking of a QB who has benefitted more from his OLine than Manziel. He's a good prospect, but he won't have the same protection in the NFL.

You're watching the Johnny Manziel that plays for Texas A&M, right? The A&M that's in the state of Texas? They wear maroon and white uniforms?

Sure he has a good o-line but the guy creates plays on his own a LOT.

Sure. What I haven't seen is him react to pressure. At least not often enough to make me more comfortable with him going to a team without a good OL, at least not while investing a top pick. If Cleveland took him with the Colts pick, that would be a worthwhile investment. Chiefs would be intriguing. He'd be interesting in Philly. If the Vikings, Jags or Bucs took him I'd probably stay away. I like Evans (a little) and Matthews a LOT more than Manziel.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm totally on board the Manziel bandwagon. I think Mariotta stays in school which makes Manziel a top 10 maybe top 5 pick.

Fresno State's Carr is a first rounder too.

how would carr compare to his brother?

drafted high, but didn't pan out...

He's better.

Like Carson Palmer was better than Jordan

and

Matt Hasselbeck was better than Tim

and

Ty Detmer was better than Coy

In other words, I don't think it matters.

It's easy to forget how good David Carr was (supposed to be) before he was drafted. I don't know much about Derek, but I'm guessing he won't grade as high as his brother.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Drew Brees seems to like him. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Drew-Brees-Johnny-Manziel-is-absolutely-an-NFL-starter-111113

But frankly, Manziel is the 3rd best NFL prospect at his own school. Without checking the stats, I have a hard time thinking of a QB who has benefitted more from his OLine than Manziel. He's a good prospect, but he won't have the same protection in the NFL.

You're watching the Johnny Manziel that plays for Texas A&M, right? The A&M that's in the state of Texas? They wear maroon and white uniforms?

Sure he has a good o-line but the guy creates plays on his own a LOT.

Sure. What I haven't seen is him react to pressure. At least not often enough to make me more comfortable with him going to a team without a good OL, at least not while investing a top pick. If Cleveland took him with the Colts pick, that would be a worthwhile investment. Chiefs would be intriguing. He'd be interesting in Philly. If the Vikings, Jags or Bucs took him I'd probably stay away. I like Evans (a little) and Matthews a LOT more than Manziel.

I think you see that all the time with his escapability when the play breaks down.

It's easy to forget how good David Carr was (supposed to be) before he was drafted. I don't know much about Derek, but I'm guessing he won't grade as high as his brother.

I'm not so sure. People are starting to catch on that Derek has good size and sees the field very well.