Haloti Ngata....why not 5 to the Packers? (1 Viewer)

[MLBrandow]

Just curious, with Grady Jackson's likely departure, the Packers would certainly have a big fat hole there. So why haven't we seen Ngata to the Pack at 5? Their rushing defense was 23rd, and certainly even if Jackson was performing at his peak, Ngata is a much better prospect to play the position.

Just a thought....

Also, for Raider Homers, how do you believe they have the top defensive prospects ranked?

 

[radballs.]

Hawk

Williams

Ngata

Hawk won't make it past the 49ers. I hope Williams is still there. I'm pissed about losing that coin flip if it means we get our third choice of these defensive players.

 

[MLBrandow]

Hawk

Williams

Ngata

Hawk won't make it past the 49ers. I hope Williams is still there. I'm pissed about losing that coin flip if it means we get our third choice of these defensive players.

Yeah, I am in the boat of people that don't believe Ngata will last to the Bills.

 

[Balco]

You can check my other posts, I have been the biggest proponent for Ngata to the Packers. The guy is an unreal talent at a position far more scarce than linebacker, which is extremely deep in this draft.

If the Packers take Hawk, this is one Packer fan who will be extremely dissapointed. It all starts up front, and Ngota would be a great start.

 

[pack100]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

 

[Balco]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

 

[football fan]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

GB most pressing need is a good defensive end that plays both the run and pass well, and Mario Williams fits that need. KGB can't keep playing the amounts of snaps as he has been playing the last year or two because he wears down quickly and loses his effectiness. Williams is almost 300 pounds and is strong enough to hold up at the point of attack. Kampman is good, but he is an over acheiver.GB already has several young DTs (they may not be as good of a run stopper as Grady, but they are definitely better than the back up DEs on the Packer roster).

With the LB depth in this year's draft, it is very possible that GB could get two good young LBs after the first round.

All the local news papers are talking about GB drafting Williams (assuming he is available). There is a possibility that GB could trade down if Ferguson is available at the 5th pick because GB feels that could bring a lot back in trade, atleast that is what the local papers are reporting.

 

[MLBrandow]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

As an objective spectator, I think Ngata to the Packers would be a lot better of a fit than Williams, and the point you make about the draft being so much deeper at LB definitely strengthens the argument.I mean, the Packers have gone without Pro Bowl Linebackers pretty much for the past 25 years (there was one LB pro bowler since like 1981 I believe), so it's obviously not been a primary concern to upgrade the position with blue chip players.

Defensive line on the other hand...

... Plus building a defense always starts up front, and right now GB's DL is a weakness, not a strength. Throwing a linebacker in there with lanes all clogged up as they are in GB is not condusive to allowing an AJ Hawk or Chad Greenway to be the best linebacker he can be.

 

[Jason Wood]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

Williams is 6'7", 295 pounds. He's got Bruce Smith/Reggie White size, something very few defensive ends in the league have anymore.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

Williams is 6'7", 295 pounds. He's got Bruce Smith/Reggie White size, something very few defensive ends in the league have anymore.

Not only that, the cupboard at DE in Green Bay is very bare, and it might get worse considering they didn't use a tag on Kampan. Kampan will hit the FA circuit, and will likely be priced out of Green Bay's comfort zone. That leaves them awful, awful thin at DE.

 

[Jason Wood]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

 

[Balco]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

I am not sure I understand. Where did size equate to being strong against the run. I think Williams has the ability to be a dominant two way player, he is already capabale as a pass rusher. I just don't see him as dominant against the run, or even above average. All things that can be worked on with technique. I am not saying Williams is not going to eb a very good NFL player. I am just saying that Ngota will impact a defense more, thus I would like it if the Packers drafted him.

 

[Jason Wood]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

I am not sure I understand. Where did size equate to being strong against the run. I think Williams has the ability to be a dominant two way player, he is already capabale as a pass rusher. I just don't see him as dominant against the run, or even above average. All things that can be worked on with technique. I am not saying Williams is not going to eb a very good NFL player. I am just saying that Ngota will impact a defense more, thus I would like it if the Packers drafted him.

Maybe I misunderstood you but implicit in saying he won't stand up to NFL OTs at the point of attack is that he'll somehow either be overpowered or is too small. Neither are remotely.And I would contend that a 300-lb ultra-athletic 2-way DE is far more impactful on a defense than a space eater. I'm a Ngata fan, but he's a space eater, not a hybrid DT who could also pressure the QB.

 

[cstu]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

I am not sure I understand. Where did size equate to being strong against the run. I think Williams has the ability to be a dominant two way player, he is already capabale as a pass rusher. I just don't see him as dominant against the run, or even above average. All things that can be worked on with technique. I am not saying Williams is not going to eb a very good NFL player. I am just saying that Ngota will impact a defense more, thus I would like it if the Packers drafted him.

Ngata is a great player, but he seems better suited to 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. If I were the Packers I'd be more interested in getting a dominant pass rusher who can disrupt the offense than a pure run stuffer like Ngata. There's nothing physically stopping Williams from being a very good run stopper and just because he mostly pass rushed in college doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL. You can't deny the effect a good pass rush has on the secondary's ability to stop the pass and you can get run stoppers later in the draft if you need them.

 

[Balco]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

I am not sure I understand. Where did size equate to being strong against the run. I think Williams has the ability to be a dominant two way player, he is already capabale as a pass rusher. I just don't see him as dominant against the run, or even above average. All things that can be worked on with technique. I am not saying Williams is not going to eb a very good NFL player. I am just saying that Ngota will impact a defense more, thus I would like it if the Packers drafted him.

Ngata is a great player, but he seems better suited to 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. If I were the Packers I'd be more interested in getting a dominant pass rusher who can disrupt the offense than a pure run stuffer like Ngata. There's nothing physically stopping Williams from being a very good run stopper and just because he mostly pass rushed in college doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL. You can't deny the effect a good pass rush has on the secondary's ability to stop the pass and you can get run stoppers later in the draft if you need them.

I think pass rushers can definitely change the game. I also think that defensive schemes that exploit the pass protection sets are also just as effective (see Greg Robinson and what he has done in Washington). I think WIlliams is going to be a solid player, with work on his technique, possibly a great player. If he goes to the Packers I am not going to punch the tv. We need impact players on D. However, I thk Ngata is an unreal talent at D tackle. A guy who can stuff the run and get a nice push into the backfield.I have made it very known that I truly believe a defense is built through the middle (DT, MLB, SS), and Ngota is a perfect fit.

 

[MLBrandow]

Ngata is a great player, but he seems better suited to 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. If I were the Packers I'd be more interested in getting a dominant pass rusher who can disrupt the offense than a pure run stuffer like Ngata. There's nothing physically stopping Williams from being a very good run stopper and just because he mostly pass rushed in college doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL. You can't deny the effect a good pass rush has on the secondary's ability to stop the pass and you can get run stoppers later in the draft if you need them.

Consequently, you also can't deny the impact that a run-stuffing, lineman-eating DT has on the LBs. That is a much bigger impact than DEs on freeing up corners.Take for example how old and slow Quarles looked in '04. Add Chris Hovan, and Quarles has a career year.

Just reiterating what was said earlier, there is serious DE talent and LB talent to be had later in the draft, but the drop off after Ngata is considerable, and the drop-off after Watson is even larger.

Simply put, if they don't grab this guy, with Grady Jackson invariably parting ways, they will go from having a below average rushing defense to having the worst rushing defense in the NFL.

That does not bode well considering they will be going up against Cedric Benson, Thomas Jones, Minnesota's RBs in Fason / Smith / maybe DeAngelo Williams or Maroney, and Kevin Jones (when he has room to run next season).

I just think Ngata is a much better value and fills a bigger need, not to mention he's a better overall player without any attitude problems.

If they pass on him, how will they fill the need? Kenard Lang or a middle-round rookie are really the only options I see.

Green Bay's defense uses a very big NT to eat up a G/C, unlike most defenses that either run the 34 style or tampa2 (which has faster, more undersized DTs).

 

[Sabertooth]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

Isn't Williams like 295? I doubt he has more trouble than KGB at the point of attack. You are reaching.

 

[Bloom]

With GB doing little to nothing to secure Kampman in FA, the smart money has to be on Williams, although they could use Hawk too. I agree that they have nice young DTs, and while none are Grady-sized, they are in decent shape without him. You can't say that for their DE situation without Kampman.

Couple of things about Ngata - while he's massive, he's not just a piece of human cholesterol to clog lanes. He's got a very low body fat % for a guy in the mid 300s and while he's no pass rush specialist, he's got terrific quickness for a guy his size and could really break out as a pass rusher with good coaching. Ngata is pretty raw, especially for a top 10 pick - his size/athleticism combo is that rare.

Also, I don't think he's better suited for 3-4 NT - the best 3-4 NTs (Hampton and Williams) are heavy, but have squatty builds, which help hold the point of attack better. Guys like Tommy Jackson (Auburn), Steve Fifita (Utah), and Babatunde Oshinowo (Stanford) have more ideal body types for the 3-4 NT than Ngata. While I do think Ngata would absolutely work in the middle of a 3-4 because of his size and need to be constantly double-teamed, I think he's equally suited for both schemes.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Artile from today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinal. Seems like Williams impressed quite a few people.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=404619

JS ONLINE: SPORTS: PACKERS: E-MAIL | PRINT

N.C. State standout measures up well

Williams' athleticism wows scouts

By BOB McGINN

bmcginn@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Feb. 27, 2006

Indianapolis - When they start comparing you to Reggie White, you know you've made your presence felt.

Any doubts that the Green Bay Packers might have harbored before the combine about the worthiness of North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams to be their choice with the fifth pick of the draft appeared to vanish Monday afternoon.

"God didn't make too many guys like that," Tennessee Titans defensive line coach Jim Washburn said about Williams after observing his workout at the RCA Dome. "I don't know how in the world he can stay on the board too long."

Williams, who just turned 21 in January, put up numbers that National Football League scouts will remember for years.

Perhaps his most eye-popping feat was the 40-inch vertical jump. Julius Peppers, the defensive end compared most often to Williams, posted a 36½-inch vertical in 2002.

Williams also bench-pressed 225 pounds a total of 35 times.

"Thirty-five is like the top five in the whole combine," Tampa Bay defensive line coach Jethro Franklin said. "With his long arms there's longer to go. When you got short arms it's a shorter distance. He's phenomenal."

In his two 40-yard dashes on the FieldTurf surface, the consensus of scouts was that Williams ran 4.71 and 4.72 seconds. Peppers, 6 feet 6 inches and 282 pounds, ran 4.75.

Williams, 6-7 and 295, also had 7.6% body fat. Peppers had 6%.

"Incredible," St. Louis Rams general manager Charley Armey said. "What can I say? He's everything you're looking for. He showed it all out here today. The athletic ability, the mental toughness to come here and compete when you're an elite player. There's not much negative on this kid."

Armey was general manager of the Memphis Showboats of the United States Football League in the mid-1980s when a rookie defensive end by the name of Reggie White signed with the team.

"You have to go all the way back to Reggie White," Armey said. "Reggie probably ran 4.80, 4.82."

Seattle Seahawks defensive coordinator Ray Rhodes coached White, 6-5 and 300, in 1993 as defensive coordinator of the Packers.

"He's not as big as Reggie," Rhodes said. "But I'll tell you what, he looks extremely good on the hoof. Extremely good. He's one of those guys you'd like to take with you right now."

Packers GM Ted Thompson, who could be in position to take Williams at No. 5, was all eyes because, as with all junior players, he didn't know that much about Williams' personality and competitiveness entering the weekend.

"We had a good interview with him," Thompson said. "He seemed confident and ready for it. He seems mentally in tune with what's going to happen. It was a very competitive defensive-line group and he did fine."

Now the defensive lines coaches will head home to watch more tape of Williams.

"I saw a little bit last week and he moved like a little guy," Buffalo Bills defensive line coach Bill Kollar said. "You'd say he was 6-3, 6-4 and 265 or something. I was shocked when here he was 6-7, 295. He's so lean. I imagine he could probably weigh 320. He's got big, broad shoulders."

Williams met with the Bills and impressed Kollar as a "real good kid." In a mass media interview Saturday, Williams also came across well.

"You hear everybody talk about Lambeau Field," Williams said. "It would be a great feeling. I just feel like if I go there. . . . whatever they want me to do, it really doesn't matter. It's all about team."

 

[MLBrandow]

That could be a smoke screen, but it sure seems convincing

 

[Balco]

A Defensive end that can play every down and get pressure on a QB would be really nice.

And thats why I don't like MArio Williams at this spot either. He is a great pass rusher, but he is going to have trouble at the point of attack. I would much rather have Ngota.

Isn't Williams like 295? I doubt he has more trouble than KGB at the point of attack. You are reaching.

Not sure what your point is. Who said KGB is remotely strong at the point. I sure didn't. He should come in on passing downs, thats it. I am not saying Williams would not help the Pack. I am saying that Ngota would be the better pick and I would be dissapointed if the Packers don't nab him.

 

[cstu]

Mario Williams is bigger than most starting NFL defensive ends, and only one 4-3 DE is bigger, Kevin Carter in Miami, according to NFL.com:

DEs that weigh more than Mario Williams...

Luis Castillo, SD [3-4]
Igor Olshansky, SD [3-4]
Kimo von Oelhoffen, PIT [3-4]
Richard Seymour, NE [3-4]
Ty Warren, NE [3-4]
Gary Walker, HOU [3-4]
Robaire Smith, HOU [3-4]
Kevin Carter, MIA

I am not sure I understand. Where did size equate to being strong against the run. I think Williams has the ability to be a dominant two way player, he is already capabale as a pass rusher. I just don't see him as dominant against the run, or even above average. All things that can be worked on with technique. I am not saying Williams is not going to eb a very good NFL player. I am just saying that Ngota will impact a defense more, thus I would like it if the Packers drafted him.

Ngata is a great player, but he seems better suited to 3-4 NT than a 4-3 DT. If I were the Packers I'd be more interested in getting a dominant pass rusher who can disrupt the offense than a pure run stuffer like Ngata. There's nothing physically stopping Williams from being a very good run stopper and just because he mostly pass rushed in college doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL. You can't deny the effect a good pass rush has on the secondary's ability to stop the pass and you can get run stoppers later in the draft if you need them.

I think pass rushers can definitely change the game. I also think that defensive schemes that exploit the pass protection sets are also just as effective (see Greg Robinson and what he has done in Washington). I think WIlliams is going to be a solid player, with work on his technique, possibly a great player. If he goes to the Packers I am not going to punch the tv. We need impact players on D. However, I thk Ngata is an unreal talent at D tackle. A guy who can stuff the run and get a nice push into the backfield.I have made it very known that I truly believe a defense is built through the middle (DT, MLB, SS), and Ngota is a perfect fit.

Then take Huff who will be a true difference maker.

 

[MLBrandow]

I have made it very known that I truly believe a defense is built through the middle (DT, MLB, SS), and Ngota is a perfect fit.

Then take Huff who will be a true difference maker.

*edited for clarityI think his and my point is that Ngata's build is so hard to clone, whereas you can argue that Darnell Bing should also be a top-tier safety in the NFL. NT is such a harder position to fill with a blue-chip player, and a guy like him doesn't come around that often. Every year or so there is a safety like Huff (not a knock on Huff at all). But that's why we stand where we do I believe.

FYI, I think I'm still on the Mario Williams boat per say, but I'm definitely starting to lean toward Ngata at 5.

 

[cstu]

I have made it very known that I truly believe a defense is built through the middle (DT, MLB, SS), and Ngota is a perfect fit.

Then take Huff who will be a true difference maker.

*edited for clarityI think his and my point is that Ngata's build is so hard to clone, whereas you can argue that Darnell Bing should also be a top-tier safety in the NFL. NT is such a harder position to fill with a blue-chip player, and a guy like him doesn't come around that often. Every year or so there is a safety like Huff (not a knock on Huff at all). But that's why we stand where we do I believe.

FYI, I think I'm still on the Mario Williams boat per say, but I'm definitely starting to lean toward Ngata at 5.

According to this article, the Packers can sign Grady for a reasonable price (especially the bonus) and then draft Super Mario or Huff.http://www.packerchatters.com/home/index.p...ask=view&id=423

Green Bay - Angelo Wright, the new agent for free agent nose tackle Grady Jackson, said he believes his client deserves a contract averaging around $5 million per season.

Wright specializes in big, fat guys such as Jackson, representing Buffalo's Sam Adams (four years, $10.25 million, $3.1 million in bonuses), Minnesota's Pat Williams (three years, $13 million, $6 million in bonuses) and Oakland's Ted Washington (four years, $14 million, $4 million in bonuses) - all of whom signed big-money deals in the past two years.

"If (the Packers) pay him fair market value, he'll come back," Wright said. "In Grady's case, yeah, he can get in better shape and improve on some things, which we have addressed and he's working on now. But when you look at the good two-gap guys or the nose tackles that are effective, they're the older guys who know how to play and know how to compete."

Jackson hired Wright after firing Drew Rosenhaus, who convinced Jackson last offseason to threaten a training camp holdout and demand a trade in hopes of getting a new deal.

"Drew created a brand, that he was coming in and going to shoot his way out of everywhere. And it was a noble effort on his part, for him to try to be the maverick, but it didn't work for him," Wright said. "So you had players who got caught in his ego."

 

[diesel7982]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Read an interesting debate on that on another site - one side saying Ngata did not fit in the cover 2 because penetration is so important, the other side saying that Jauron had huge success with Shaun Rogers, who is a behemoth like Ngata. One of the most compelling arguments for Ngata, independant of the scheme, was that Buffalo was horribly gashed by the run last year, and Ngata would address that immediately.I certainly wouldn't rule Ngata for the Bills just because of the cover 2.

 

[MLBrandow]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Read an interesting debate on that on another site - one side saying Ngata did not fit in the cover 2 because penetration is so important, the other side saying that Jauron had huge success with Shaun Rogers, who is a behemoth like Ngata. One of the most compelling arguments for Ngata, independant of the scheme, was that Buffalo was horribly gashed by the run last year, and Ngata would address that immediately.I certainly wouldn't rule Ngata for the Bills just because of the cover 2.

I think we'd be inherently making the assumption that because Ngata is a big fat guy he can't penetrate and pressure the passer.That's what makes him so special, isn't it? He moves like a 295 pound interior lineman.

 

[Cookiemonster]

How does Al Davis have the top defensive players ranked?

1. Vernon Davis

2. Chad Jackson

3. Jay Cutler

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Read an interesting debate on that on another site - one side saying Ngata did not fit in the cover 2 because penetration is so important, the other side saying that Jauron had huge success with Shaun Rogers, who is a behemoth like Ngata. One of the most compelling arguments for Ngata, independant of the scheme, was that Buffalo was horribly gashed by the run last year, and Ngata would address that immediately.I certainly wouldn't rule Ngata for the Bills just because of the cover 2.

I think we'd be inherently making the assumption that because Ngata is a big fat guy he can't penetrate and pressure the passer.That's what makes him so special, isn't it? He moves like a 295 pound interior lineman.

sure, Ngata *can* penetrate, but his biggest asset is holding up two blockers at the point of attack. Cover 2, at least the way that Tampa and Indy run it, is based on the DT just shooting the gap in front of them. Ngata is not the best for this kind of role, although Jauron may not run the cover 2 exactly the way Indy and Tampa do (called the "tampa 2" i believe)

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

If the Bills can't get Feguson then the guy I want them to get is indeed Ngata if he is there. Over at the BuffaloBills.com forums though, Bunkley is all the rage right now. I see Bunkley as a good player but more of a workout warrior. Sure he had a good showing at the combine, but Ngata showed it on the field over and over again. I'll take the guy that has proven himself on the field thank you very much. It's just funny that all of a sudden, all of the posters there have hyped Bunkley into a #8 pick when nobody else anywhere is talking about the guy that highly.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

If the Bills can't get Feguson then the guy I want them to get is indeed Ngata if he is there. Over at the BuffaloBills.com forums though, Bunkley is all the rage right now. I see Bunkley as a good player but more of a workout warrior. Sure he had a good showing at the combine, but Ngata showed it on the field over and over again. I'll take the guy that has proven himself on the field thank you very much. It's just funny that all of a sudden, all of the posters there have hyped Bunkley into a #8 pick when nobody else anywhere is talking about the guy that highly.

I'd love for them to trade down 10 spots or so, pick up another 2nd rounder, and pick Bunkley or Watson.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

If the Bills can't get Feguson then the guy I want them to get is indeed Ngata if he is there. Over at the BuffaloBills.com forums though, Bunkley is all the rage right now. I see Bunkley as a good player but more of a workout warrior. Sure he had a good showing at the combine, but Ngata showed it on the field over and over again. I'll take the guy that has proven himself on the field thank you very much. It's just funny that all of a sudden, all of the posters there have hyped Bunkley into a #8 pick when nobody else anywhere is talking about the guy that highly.

Bunkley is much more than a workout warrior... He had 25 TFL and 9 sacks as a DT at florida state this year. If anything, the concern was that he was a little light, and he answered that by showing up to the combine bigger than he played in college, and still looking as explosive as he did at FSU. He has moved into that elite top 20 prospects tier. I originally had him going to denver at 22, but cleveland at 12 seems like a good possibility now, and KC would be nuts to pass on him if he falls that far.

 

[MLBrandow]

How does Al Davis have the top defensive players ranked?

1. Vernon Davis

2. Chad Jackson

3. Jay Cutler

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

If the Bills can't get Feguson then the guy I want them to get is indeed Ngata if he is there. Over at the BuffaloBills.com forums though, Bunkley is all the rage right now. I see Bunkley as a good player but more of a workout warrior. Sure he had a good showing at the combine, but Ngata showed it on the field over and over again. I'll take the guy that has proven himself on the field thank you very much. It's just funny that all of a sudden, all of the posters there have hyped Bunkley into a #8 pick when nobody else anywhere is talking about the guy that highly.

Bunkley is much more than a workout warrior... He had 25 TFL and 9 sacks as a DT at florida state this year. If anything, the concern was that he was a little light, and he answered that by showing up to the combine bigger than he played in college, and still looking as explosive as he did at FSU. He has moved into that elite top 20 prospects tier. I originally had him going to denver at 22, but cleveland at 12 seems like a good possibility now, and KC would be nuts to pass on him if he falls that far.

Hey Grove,

Bunkley wasn't all the rage all year because the typical rankings were disrespecting him. He was almost always listed after, Ngata, Harris, Wroten, Wright and Watson. He was also listed as a 285 pound DT, and that had plenty to do with downgrading him. He is 305 pounds of cut muscle. Sometime in late October Scott Wright (nfl draft countdown) broke out game film and gushed. He immediately moved up to DT2 in his rankings (behind only Ngata). The point is his play has been very very strong, better than all those originally ranked above him, including Ngata. As Bloom says, far more than a workout warrior. There's about 20 players in the draft who I would consider sure things and Bunkley is one of them.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm praying that he somehow makes it to the Bills.

Wouldn't count on it with the cover 2 being installed there.

Yeah, but we could draft him now, give him a year and then when Jauron gets fired and we go back to a real defense, he'd have a year of experience. Gotta look on the bright side, my friend.

If the Bills can't get Feguson then the guy I want them to get is indeed Ngata if he is there. Over at the BuffaloBills.com forums though, Bunkley is all the rage right now. I see Bunkley as a good player but more of a workout warrior. Sure he had a good showing at the combine, but Ngata showed it on the field over and over again. I'll take the guy that has proven himself on the field thank you very much. It's just funny that all of a sudden, all of the posters there have hyped Bunkley into a #8 pick when nobody else anywhere is talking about the guy that highly.

Bunkley is much more than a workout warrior... He had 25 TFL and 9 sacks as a DT at florida state this year. If anything, the concern was that he was a little light, and he answered that by showing up to the combine bigger than he played in college, and still looking as explosive as he did at FSU. He has moved into that elite top 20 prospects tier. I originally had him going to denver at 22, but cleveland at 12 seems like a good possibility now, and KC would be nuts to pass on him if he falls that far.

Hey Grove,

Bunkley wasn't all the rage all year because the typical rankings were disrespecting him. He was almost always listed after, Ngata, Harris, Wroten, Wright and Watson. He was also listed as a 285 pound DT, and that had plenty to do with downgrading him. He is 305 pounds of cut muscle. Sometime in late October Scott Wright (nfl draft countdown) broke out game film and gushed. He immediately moved up to DT2 in his rankings (behind only Ngata). The point is his play has been very very strong, better than all those originally ranked above him, including Ngata. As Bloom says, far more than a workout warrior. There's about 20 players in the draft who I would consider sure things and Bunkley is one of them.

I'll take your word for it then. I'm not as big of a college guy so I'll defer to superior knowledge. All I was getting over at the BuffaloBills.com forum though was "OMG, he ran a 4.95 and did a 44 reps, he's the best player ever!"Sounds to me like the Bills couldn't miss on either one. They need a guy that would be a difference maker on that defensive front. Personally, I'd still take Ferguson over either one, but if Brick isn't there, I wouldn't mind if the Bills took either one of Ngata and Bunkley. And if they could trade down a few spots and still get one of those guys, even better.

 

[MLBrandow]

I'll take your word for it then. I'm not as big of a college guy so I'll defer to superior knowledge. All I was getting over at the BuffaloBills.com forum though was "OMG, he ran a 4.95 and did a 44 reps, he's the best player ever!"

Sounds to me like the Bills couldn't miss on either one. They need a guy that would be a difference maker on that defensive front. Personally, I'd still take Ferguson over either one, but if Brick isn't there, I wouldn't mind if the Bills took either one of Ngata and Bunkley. And if they could trade down a few spots and still get one of those guys, even better.

That'd be something, after all the homer picks, to see Bunkley get the nod over Ngata.And being that I can't picture him in a Lion, Cardinal or Ram uniform...... Hello Romeo!

 

[Jason Wood]

I'll take your word for it then.  I'm not as big of a college guy so I'll defer to superior knowledge.  All I was getting over at the BuffaloBills.com forum though was "OMG, he ran a 4.95 and did a 44 reps, he's the best player ever!"

Sounds to me like the Bills couldn't miss on either one.  They need a guy that would be a difference maker on that defensive front.  Personally, I'd still take Ferguson over either one, but if Brick isn't there, I wouldn't mind if the Bills took either one of Ngata and Bunkley.  And if they could trade down a few spots and still get one of those guys, even better.

That'd be something, after all the homer picks, to see Bunkley get the nod over Ngata.And being that I can't picture him in a Lion, Cardinal or Ram uniform...... Hello Romeo!

I'm a Bunkley fan, but man it would be a reach to take him over Ngata. I don't think Ngata should go 5 to the Pack versus Mario [or Hawk], but I DO think he's the class of the DTs. He was doubled pretty much non-stop at Oregon and he still dominated.