Happiness Levels - How Much Money Is "Enough"? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

"Man's Search for Meaning" changed my life perspective at a young age...we read it in 11th grade.   Our class actually had a concentration camp survivor come in and talk about her experience and the book. 

Wow. I bet that was incredible. There's something to that reality check when you meet someone like that.

I did the Bataan Death March race out the White Sands Missile Range in NM. It's a memorial thing for the real Bataan Death March of WWII. 26.2 miles and it's hot and dusty. About mile 23, I'm feeling sorry for myself as my feet hurt in my fancy trail running shoes with smart wool socks and goretex gaiters and camelback hydration system. 

I look up and there's a couple of 90 year old guys under an umbrella for shade.

They were WW II veterans and survived the real Death March hiking some 70 miles with no shoes and starving and sick from malaria and when you couldn't keep up, the Japanese soldiers shot you in the head and left you in the road. And their prize for finishing the march was arriving at a concentration camp. 

That puts some perspective on things. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

I like the Buddhist belief that desire causes suffering, and freeing oneself from it ultimately leads to enlightenment. As I’ve aged,  I care less and less about material possessions and money. Health, relationships and experiences are far more important, and none of those has to cost a ton of money.

My wife and I earn a comfortable living, which makes it easy not to stress about finances. When we recently received a raise, we responded by cutting our hours,  as the time we spend away from work is far more valuable than the cash. Our coworkers who live more lavishly don’t understand how we do it, but it helps to abandon the desire for a bigger house, fancy car, etc., and learn to cherish the simple things.

 

[Judge Smails]

One thing I realized fairly early on is that flexibility from your employer is a huge advantage and tough to put a price tag on.  This is provided that you are making enough to support your needs and be comfortable.  

For example, i coached High School baseball for 15 years.  It was something i didn't plan on doing but an opportunity presented itself and it just kind of happened.  I never imagined I would do it for 15 years.   I also would never have been able to do it if my employer wasn't flexible enough to allow me to come in early and get off early for practice and games during the season.  My boss didn't have any issue as long as I got my work done (it helped that I am on the west coast and we had customers all over the world so sometimes coming in at 5am actually allowed some contact with my European customers when needed.  Anyway, I had opportunities to leave for a lot more money over the years but I couldn't put a price tag on the flexibility that I had in my time.  That carried over to errands or late lunches or whatever as long as the work got done.

That little perk goes a long way to overall happiness that you cannot put a price tag on.  

I completely agree with this. Edited all else out for Binky just in case 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I really hate these kind of threads that take the form of "humble" brags.  

reaction

 

[Joe Bryant]

I really hate these kind of threads that take the form of "humble" brags.  

reaction

I don't see much of that here. But if you do, might be best to avoid the thread then. 

I do think the idea of finding happiness and how people do it is something I'd love for us to discuss more here. Hope you'll join us. 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I don't see much of that here. But if you do, might be best to avoid the thread then. 

I do think the idea of finding happiness and how people do it is something I'd love for us to discuss more here. Hope you'll join us. 

Joe - I think we've gotten along fine over the years in our infrequent communications.  But your post has an overtly "pretentious old southern lady tone" that has been duly noted.    

In no way does my comment imply that I don't endorse the intent of your thread ...in fact, it's the opposite.  

You know ...I enjoy a few million or so as well ...I just don't talk about ...and nor do you.  

I think this thread will do just fine without the bragging.  

JMO

 

[Joe Bryant]

Joe - I think we've gotten along fine over the years in our infrequent communications.  But your post has an overtly "pretentious old southern lady tone" that has been duly noted.    

In no way does my comment imply that I don't endorse the intent of your thread ...in fact, it's the opposite.  

You know ...I enjoy a few million or so as well ...I just don't talk about ...and nor do you.  

I think this thread will do just fine without the bragging.  

JMO

Yikes.

And for sure I think we'll do fine without bragging. All good. 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Yikes. 

And for sure I think we'll do fine without bragging. All good. 

reaction.

 

[Otis]

$500k

Preferably $1MM

But without a mortgage or debt, $500k works. 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

$500k

Preferably $1MM

But without a mortgage or debt, $500k works. 

reaction. 

eat a peach.   

ETA:  so glad Otis is back and adding so much to the board.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I really hate these kind of threads that take the form of "humble" brags.  

reaction

You seem to anger easily. Maybe lay off the gifs and check back after the holidays?

 

[Judge Smails]

Joe - I think we've gotten along fine over the years in our infrequent communications.  But your post has an overtly "pretentious old southern lady tone" that has been duly noted.    

In no way does my comment imply that I don't endorse the intent of your thread ...in fact, it's the opposite.  

You know ...I enjoy a few million or so as well ...I just don't talk about ...and nor do you.  

I think this thread will do just fine without the bragging.  

JMO

One of the most back handed comments on these boards in awhile.  And that's saying something.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

One of the most back handed comments on these boards in awhile.  And that's saying something.

it wasn't a compliment.  

it was an observation of a couple of people that felt compelled to tell us all how much money they have.  

we've both been around here for years judge ...

 

[Binky The Doormat]

You seem to anger easily. Maybe lay off the gifs and check back after the holidays?

are you on break from selling overpriced "vitamins"?

 

[Judge Smails]

it wasn't a compliment.  

it was an observation of a couple of people that felt compelled to tell us all how much money they have.  

we've both been around here for years judge ...

I never said compliment.  Said comment.  To Joe.  "overtly pretentious old southern lady tone"? That has been "duly noted"? What?

Some comments from those responding were tongue in cheek, but in a post about money you would expect to see comments about it.  The great majority are on the other end of the bragging spectrum. Most were saying they had enough and other things had more importance.

Yeah - we have.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I never said compliment.  Said comment.  To Joe.  "overtly pretentious old southern lady tone"? That has been "duly noted"? What?

Some comments from those responding were tongue in cheek, but in a post about money you would expect to see comments about it.  The great majority are on the other end of the bragging spectrum. Most were saying they had enough and other things had more importance.

Yeah - we have.

Yeah - we have ...

we have what???

what is your point?

 

[Judge Smails]

Yeah - we have ...

we have what???

what is your point?

Dude I don't get into wars on boards.  I was just commenting to each section of your post.  You ended with we have both been around here for years and I said "yeah we have".

You obviously have a point to make in the thread.  Carry on.  I just didn't understand your comment to Joe at all. What was your point of that?  

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Dude I don't get into wars on boards.  I was just commenting to each section of your post.  You ended with we have both been around here for years and I said "yeah we have".

You obviously have a point to make in the thread.  Carry on.  I just didn't understand your comment to Joe at all. What was your point of that?  

I didn't get the "yeah, we have" relating the comment of that we both have been here for years.

My initial point should have been crystal clear "this is not a thread for guys to brag about what they have".  

my point to Joe was that at times when he is trying to administrate these boards he gets a little pretentious ...like he's above the fray ...but can still lay someone out ...like a southern rich lady.  

 

[Don't Toews Me]

"Man's Search for Meaning" changed my life perspective at a young age...we read it in 11th grade.   Our class actually had a concentration camp survivor come in and talk about her experience and the book. 

I also read it at quite a young age. I've said it elsewhere but it remains the best book I've personally read. Perhaps it was just the time of my life that I read it, but it was great.

Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" is also up there somewhere. Peter Buffett (yes Warren Buffett's son) also wrote a good book in this general realm of books.

 

[Joe Bryant]

my point to Joe was that at times when he is trying to administrate these boards he gets a little pretentious ...like he's above the fray ...but can still lay someone out ...like a southern rich lady.  

Duly noted. 



All good, Everyone. It's Christmas Week. Rock on.

 

[Terminalxylem]

are you on break from selling overpriced "vitamins"?

If you read my post you’d know I cut back my hours. I have plenty of time to read your angry posts, and come to the conclusion you need more D.

 

[The Man With No Name]

I like the Buddhist belief that desire causes suffering, and freeing oneself from it ultimately leads to enlightenment. As I’ve aged,  I care less and less about material possessions and money. Health, relationships and experiences are far more important, and none of those has to cost a ton of money.

My wife and I earn a comfortable living, which makes it easy not to stress about finances. When we recently received a raise, we responded by cutting our hours,  as the time we spend away from work is far more valuable than the cash. Our coworkers who live more lavishly don’t understand how we do it, but it helps to abandon the desire for a bigger house, fancy car, etc., and learn to cherish the simple things.

Agree. A couple months ago I asked Dr. if it was possible to get a letter saying I could only work 8 hours per day and 40 per week. No problem. So no more overtime for me and I like it. December is the suck where I work (Post Office). Would be working 60+ hours without the FMLA. Worked over 70 per week previous years in December. 2 others in my job, out of 10 are on it too and another just got on 8 hours per day. Bosses are not liking it. Too bad. 

 

[Sand]

I'd like to see that math.   I live in a 1400k house and I still pay ~1k per year each for heat, electricity, internet, cell phone.   15k is some bare, bare bones living.   

4k in utilities on a 1.4M house is pretty darn good.  My assumption is your tax bill is multiples of that.

-----

As far as money and happiness, this study shows that where you live has a huge effect on your spending. People feel the need to match their neighbors to "achieve" happiness.  (I'm sure my neighbors look askance at my old subcompact).

At least for me 60k of spending is about the threshold of happiness maximum.

 

[Sand]

They were WW II veterans and survived the real Death March hiking some 70 miles with no shoes and starving and sick from malaria and when you couldn't keep up, the Japanese soldiers shot you in the head and left you in the road. And their prize for finishing the march was arriving at a concentration camp. 

Even a number of years ago coming across one of those guys was about as rare as someone who survived Iwo Jima or Peleliu. What an honor.

 

[NutterButter]

4k in utilities on a 1.4M house is pretty darn good.  My assumption is your tax bill is multiples of that.

4k would be incredible if my house was 1.4M.   I meant 1400k square feet.    

 

[Spin]

For me, it was when I'd walk into the beer store and just grab the beer I wanted without looking at or thinking about the price. It's crazy how sometimes a $2 difference in a 6pack can feel like a ton more. 

 

[The Narrator]

Hugely important book in my opinion. 

Was listening to a podcast the other day on this. The speaker talked about how Freud was very popular around the same time Frankl was working through his ideas.

Simplifying, but Freud's premise is people are mostly driven by the pursuit of pleasure.

Frankl said people are mostly driven by the pursuit of significance. And when they can't find significance, they turn to pursuing pleasure. 

Again, simplifying, but Frankl said meaning comes from 3 factors.

1. Motion. Have a project you’re working on an engaged in. Have something that you can move forward on. 

2. An optimistic positive perspective you can put on your suffering and challenges. That means when something bad happens, you are looking for the upside in it. 

3. Community. Group of people you share life with and are for each other.

This resonates deeply with me. I've had pretty wide swings in income over my life (I'm 41), and aside from the times when I didn't have enough money to pay the bills I haven't noticed any correlation between income and happiness. As long as I'm making enough to pay the bills and save enough to where I'll be able to live a modest lifestyle in retirement, I'm pretty good. My income has doubled over the last couple years, and my lifestyle hasn't changed much at all, and while I'm glad that I'm saving fairly aggressively, I wouldn't say I'm any happier. And if it was pleasure/experiences that I wanted, I'd just do that instead of save. I've had enough of the bigger house and the more stuff that it doesn't appeal to me. The only thing that more money would do is get me closer to the point where I have enough money to spend my time doing whatever I wanted instead of work. 

I've been fortunate to do things that I consider meaningful though, and that's what is really satisfying - I've even got a bit of a community I can do that thing with and reason to be optimistic in that world. I wish I was lucky enough to be able to do something I found meaningful for work, because right now it feels like I spend a ton of time on the thing that allows me to exist and I have to find time for the meaningful after fulfilling all the obligations. 

Frankl's #2 reminds me of something Elizabeth Warren said 

Choose to fight only righteous fights, because then when things get tough — and they will — you will know that there is only one option ahead of you: Nevertheless, you must persist.

I've got that podcast queued up, and Miller's book has been on my list for a while too, thanks for the recommendation. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

This video speaks to the things that drive us. After a point, it’s not about money. Autonomy, mastery and purpose appear to be more important in personal fulfillment, and likely happiness.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This video speaks to the things that drive us. After a point, it’s not about money. Autonomy, mastery and purpose appear to be more important in personal fulfillment, and likely happiness.

Thanks. I like Daniel Pink and he does a good job with that. I saw he was just added to the Masterclass lineup with a class. The "let people work on what they want" thing is interesting. Lots of companies now call these "hackathons" and there's been quite a few cool things come out of them. Fascinating how that's way more productive than some sort of vague "innovation bonus". It's not quite that simple as there are other reasons why people aren't motivated by an Innovation bonus but there's fun stuff there worth thinking about. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

This video speaks to the things that drive us. After a point, it’s not about money. Autonomy, mastery and purpose appear to be more important in personal fulfillment, and likely happiness.

rarely have i seen as massive a rationalization. this is social-engineering in the name of management, not personal psychology. i do not have countering "science" (though i'd not be surprised if this brand wasnt conceived with the end already in mind, like much new socioeconomic theory) so i wont let it go past opinion - mastery (and the drive to it) and personal autonomy over community identity are rather the reason behind modern ills and how we are being manipulated into misery. duty, purpose & value will be the troika of motivators once we've sorted ourselves past our behavioral adolescence and caught up to the technology.

ETA: oh, and Happy Holidays!

 

[Terminalxylem]

rarely have i seen as massive a rationalization. this is social-engineering in the name of management, not personal psychology. i do not have countering "science" (though i'd not be surprised if this brand wasnt conceived with the end already in mind, like much new socioeconomic theory) so i wont let it go past opinion - mastery (and the drive to it) and personal autonomy over community identity are rather the reason behind modern ills and how we are being manipulated into misery. duty, purpose & value will be the troika of motivators once we've sorted ourselves past our behavioral adolescence and caught up to the technology.

I don’t think they prioritized mastery and autonomy over community identity - I may need a re-watch, but I don’t recall the latter being mentioned at all. One might consider it as a component of “purpose”, however.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I don’t think they prioritized mastery and autonomy over community identity - I may need a re-watch, but I don’t think the latter was mentioned at all. One might consider it as a component of “purpose”, however.

not opposing, merely differing. i know you are a well-motivated person with abiding care & interest in the subject. it reads as "new" corporate hype man stuff from the TED and whoreconomics industry, so i thought to comment in that spirit.

i could go on for days about the evils of "mastery" and how much this society suffers from believing functional improvisation to be the optimum fashion by which to conduct a life, but it'll have to wait til fugitive pages from my Owner's Manual for the Human Personality are digitally excavated and posted by my executor.

 

[Terminalxylem]

not opposing, merely differing. i know you are a well-motivated person with abiding care & interest in the subject. it reads as "new" corporate hype man stuff from the TED and whoreconomics industry, so i thought to comment in that spirit.

i could go on for days about the evils of "mastery" and how much this society suffers from believing behavioral improvisation to be the optimum fashion by which to conduct a life, but it'll have to wait til fugitive pages from my Owner's Manual for the Human Personality are digitally excavated and posted by my executor.

Really wish I hadn’t skipped the whoreconomics course in college...

 

[wikkidpissah]

Really wish I hadn’t skipped the whoreconomics course in college...

that's why i skipped college entirely.

went thru the same thing working in psych - in order to have my "revolutionary & absolutely correct" opinions valued in the field, i would have had to go to school for ten years of learning their "science" when they dont even have a model for health yet (at which i, of course, arrived upon a prevailing theory for in my first wks as a special ed teachers' aide almost 50 yrs ago). if the science of economics werent in service to capitalism, 95% of it would be involved in replacing instead of potentiating it.

 

[Terminalxylem]

that's why i skipped college entirely.

went thru the same thing working in psych - in order to have my "revolutionary & absolutely correct" opinions valued in the field, i would have had to go to school for ten years of learning their "science" when they dont even have a model for health yet (at which i, of course, arrived upon a prevailing theory in my first wks as a special ed teachers' aide almost 50 yrs ago). if the science of economics werent in service to capitalism, 95% of it would be involved in replacing instead of potentiating it.

I was really just lamenting my collegiate dating record, but your criticism of the softer sciences is duly noted.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I was really just lamenting my collegiate dating record, but your criticism of the softer sciences is duly noted.

i worked for rock bands that toured campuses during my college yrs, so did not miss my own collegiate "dating" record

 

[E Street Brat]

I volunteer to be the long term FBG test subject.

Each of you send me $50.00 a week, and I'll submit a sliding scale happiness report each quarter untill i reach 10

pm me for paypal info...

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I volunteer to be the long term FBG test subject.

Each of you send me $50.00 a week, and I'll submit a sliding scale happiness report each quarter untill i reach 10

pm me for paypal info...

E Street LaBrat

 

[wikkidpissah]

I volunteer to be the long term FBG test subject.

Each of you send me $50.00 a week, and I'll submit a sliding scale happiness report each quarter untill i reach 10

pm me for paypal info...

are you, by any chance, Nigerian?