spider321
Footballguy
1) Probably has something to do with the fact that Ireland is his boss. 2) Davis is lazy. Most lazy guys don't make it in the NFL.
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Hard Knocks 2012 - Miami Dolphins (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
Bo Skiboski
Footballguy
Damn, I loved that episode. I wished Egnew got chewed out at least a little but other than that it was pretty perfect. The line saying Brown had never been lost at sea but he may be in over his head was top notch.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Solid 7Wanted to call his Grandma. I wish he would have cussed Ireland out, wish him the best with a middle finger, and march out of the office and grab his gear.'Premier said:
Bo Skiboski
Footballguy
The Philbin hate is out of control. Rex Ryan says let's go eat a snack, steals cookies and gives John Connor an obvious nickname and people fawn over him. That guy's a buffoon. Philbin's a cerebral guy with an attention to detail but somehow he doesn't have what it takes to be a head guy? I see a guy with a long term plan taking it one baby step at a time. The guy is meticulous. He had something to do with getting that Packer offense to where it is, that should count for something. Honestly, if they didn't go with Tannehill I'd have said they were a playoff team. I really think they panicked drafting Tannehill and now they feel they have to ride him. If they had addressed another concern in the draft and given Moore another season I'd say they'd have been a playoff team for sure.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I appreciate the opinion but from the majority of the DolphinNation let me say...
Bo Skiboski
Footballguy
Yes, playoffs. They were a sneaky good team in the 2nd half of last season and Matt Moore played well. He got hosed this year.I appreciate the opinion but from the majority of the DolphinNation let me say...
Bo Skiboski
Footballguy
The Bengals made the playoffs last season. The Bengals. Who do you see this season as the wildcard teams in the AFC? Looks like NE, Balt and Houston are locks to win their division. The west is wide open as usual. Are there two teams who are likely wildcard teams? I don't see them. Looks wide open. Miami went 6-3 down the stretch last year after a horrific start. You claim to be a Dolphin's fan and don't think this team had a shot at the playoffs? With fans like you...
karmarooster
Footballguy
Philbin is about as cool as Stannis Baratheon.
spider321
Footballguy
Stannis did take the red-head on his war planning table. That's pretty cool.Didn't expect a GoT response that quick, did ya?
bonesman
Footballguy
Cerebral with attention to detail... sounds like code word for
What have these athletes done with those people their whole life? Respect them? All Philbin's attention to detail and meticulous shoe tying (I think he's OCD), and Tannehill has to burn a timeout because some dude on the line has to lace em up? He doesn't inspire... guys aren't on board... even if they had good players they would likely lose.Let's give him some time though.
bonesman
Footballguy
Mike Sherman is the Onion Knight.
Sarnoff
Footballguy
How do you know Philbin wasn't already sure personally that he wanted Davis out of there, and was just waiting to hear Ireland's side? Ireland presented it as "They texted me a 5th and 6th, I said I'm not really interested in that, I'll only entertain a serious offer. Then they made it a third, and I said I have to consider it. Now they're offering a second rounder." Ireland hadn't yet said what he wanted to do... accept the second, ask for a third and a player, hold out for a first or something else... so Philbin asked "What do you think about that?" Maybe Philbin knew he was done with Davis and would rather pick a new player next season and open up a roster spot for a guy he'd like to keep around more. But he's not going to say "take the second" if Ireland thinks he can get a first, or a third and a player... Philbin isn't involved in the negotiation. His job is NOT to manage cap space, or bank future picks, or anything like that. His job is to evaluate the 53 men in front of him, period, whoever they are. It's not in his purview to say "I'd keep Davis over a third" or "Davis is worth a first only" or anything like that. As soon as Ireland says he'd be OK pulling the trigger for a second round pick, Philbin said "OK, fine with me." I don't see that as a negative on Philbin at all. I'm sure if he objected for whatever reason, if he felt "That's crazy, Davis is great in our system and we need him," he would have nixed the deal. But he wanted Davis out of there too... Ireland just hadn't gotten that information out of him yet, which is why he was asking "Are you OK letting this guy go?" Philbin was and said "do it." I don't think that reflects negatively on anyone, both guys wanted Davis gone, but neither had said it out loud to the other yet. Once they figured out they were on the same page, there was no need for further discussion.
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Beerguzzler
Footballguy
The only issue with this years version of Hard Knocks is that there's no real character on Miami. Every team needs a Tony Saragusa to make a proper episode of hard knocks.
I know I'm a homer, but Philip Rivers would be fantastic on this show. The trash talk would be fantastic schtick.
I know I'm a homer, but Philip Rivers would be fantastic on this show. The trash talk would be fantastic schtick.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Anybody find it a big deal that the starting QB is clueless about which teams are in which division?
Normally I would say its not a big deal but when I think of a "franchise QB" I normally think of a gym rat that knows the history of the league, has a respect for it, has studied numerous players to pattern their game from, etc.
If my accoutant tells me he doesn't watch Finance weekly on saturday morning, I'm cool with that, but I would prefer he at elast know who our competitors are in our industry.
Normally I would say its not a big deal but when I think of a "franchise QB" I normally think of a gym rat that knows the history of the league, has a respect for it, has studied numerous players to pattern their game from, etc.
If my accoutant tells me he doesn't watch Finance weekly on saturday morning, I'm cool with that, but I would prefer he at elast know who our competitors are in our industry.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Isn't a gym rat someone who's always in the gym and NOT studying books, league history, etc?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Can I call my grandma?'Premier said:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Daniel Thomas certainly seemed in the doghouse. Unless there are injuries to Bush and Miller, I don't see him having any chance anytime soon.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Who might that be?
bonesman
Footballguy
Wake, I'm guessing. Tannehill not knowing the divisions made for some comedic moments... but is no indication of whether he can play QB or not. Actually, the fact that THAT is what he's struggling with is a good sign. Rather it be that then the verbiage of the offense.
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Other than the "panicked by picking Tannehill" part this is a damn
Philbin has been part of a championship team and knows what it takes to get that kind of group of guys together. He needs time to get his team together - don't like it? There is the door. CYA
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
By Dan Hanzus
Change comes fast in NFL training camp ... whether you're ready for it or not.
Just ask Vontae Davis. On Tuesday night, we were taken inside general manager Jeff Ireland's office, where the former starting cornerback was floored by the news he'd been traded to the Indianapolis Colts.
Davis doesn't blink as Ireland delivered the news. When the general manager asks if he's OK, Davis says he has to call his grandmother, reaching for his cell phone like it's a security blanket. In Davis' mind, a conversation with his grandma at that very moment is the only thing keeping him from dropping off the edge of the Earth.
"Why don't we do a little business first before you call grandma?" Ireland replies, and it's hard to tell if he's playing to the cameras or legitimately trying to keep the corner on point.
It was a moment both funny and poignant. Another classic "Hard Knocks" scene in a season that's had its share.
Here's what else we took out of Episode 4 ...
So long to Steinbach, Brown
Veteran offensive lineman Eric Steinbach had one of the lines of the season back in Episode 1, when he concluded a taxing tryout by saying all he needed was a cigarette and a cold tub.
A lunch-pail comment from a lunch-pail dude. Steinbach hinted at retirement last week, and we saw the moment when Steinbach makes it official in a conversation with Joe Philbin.
"I didn't come back the way I wanted to," Steinbach said. "I saw it on film, you guys saw it on film. I feel like (crap) in the morning still, you know? It sucks to admit, but yeah, it's time."
If you were looking for a way to feel ancient today, this supposedly broken-down athlete was born in the 1980s. His career is done at 32.
We also said goodbye to tight end Les Brown, who took the news of his release rather hard. We're going to miss seeing the former financial advisor get brutally manhandled in every imaginable blocking situation.
Daniel Thomas needs a new watch
If you plan on snagging Thomas as potential sleeper in your fantasy league, be advised that the second-year pro running back currently has a cozy spot in Philbin's dog house. This can happen when you're late for a team flight on one side of a weekend, then show up 15 minutes late to a lifting session on the other.
"I'm getting a little queasy about you," Philbin said, seated in his near-iconic office/leather-furniture emporium. "You're going to have take responsibility for your own career, what you're doing, when you're doing it."
Thomas -- looking like a kid in the principal's office -- said two words the entire meeting: "Yes" and "sir." He also had his shoelaces untied. Doesn't Thomas know he's dealing with the self-proclaimed Shoelace Nazi? Fantasy buyer beware.
Gotta love Jerry
Philbin is reminiscent of one of those lovable geeky dads whom you're also intrinsically aware you should never mess with. It was all on display when he warns an unnamed player for his bad language.
"Watch the f-bombs you're throwing at me, you got it?" he tells the player. "I'll be throwing the f-bombs around here."
Kudos to the HBO editors, who then cut to a coaches meeting where Philbin drops his first true f-bomb of the season.
"You know that guy got lost at sea?"
That line belongs to Matt Moore, describing the aquatic tribulations of Chas Alecxih. The rookie defensive tackle then told the story of once being stranded in the Gulf of Mexico after his Jet Ski broke down. Later, the Jet Ski itself floated away when Alecxih jumped into the water to relieve himself. The Coast Guard found him eight hours later, five minutes before they were to call off their search.
"I was praying a lot, preparing for the fact that it might be over."
By the end of Tuesday's episode, Alecxih was lost at sea again -- this time metaphorically. He was cut. On the bright side, Keith Morrison now has a slam dunk "Dateline" subject if he needs it.
Not cool, HBO. Not cool.
The gratuitious "Cheerleaders Limbering Up" interstitial was replaced this week with a collection of 300-pound dudes stretching out their inner thighs to "This Is A Man's World" by James Brown. Downgrade.
Did you have 18 minutes in the Lauren Tannehill office pool?
That's how long "Hard Knocks" held off this week before Ryan Tannehill's outrageously blonde wife appeared at a charity endeavor of some kind. Little context to the event was given, other than Jake Long's wife was also there. Really, it was just a room in which Lauren Tannehill was inside. This was deemed to be enough.
Lauren popped up a few more times before the hour was through, and now has appeared prominently in three of the four episodes. Our prediction of the obligatory "Ryan and Lauren go house-hunting on South Beach!" segment now rides on the season finale next week.
Ryan Tannehill thinks the Chiefs are in the NFC East
I kid you not. He also thinks the New York Giants are in the NFC North. Let's have him try to explain:
"I wasn't a huge pro fan growing up; I wasn't loyal to any one team. Don't really know the divisions even really the conferences," he said. "I know most of the conferences, but some of those I really have no clue. And they don't make sense! You have the AFC East and we're freaking in the bottom of the map. The directions don't make any sense where the teams actually are."
The final sitdown
Which takes us back into Ireland's office on the night Davis was traded to Luck, Indiana. Ireland has stayed in the shadows for the bulk of this season, but we started to get a better idea of his personality in Episode 4. He's not extremely gifted in his communication with players, but he's unflinchingly honest in his final conversation with Davis.
"You're kind of up and down. ... Before you become great, which I think you have the ability to be, these waves got to be a lot smaller," Ireland tells Davis. "And that's probably why you're being traded. I'm just being transparent, I want you to know why it hasn't worked for us here."
Ladies and gentleman, the new franchise cornerstone of your Miami Dolphins!
Extra comedy comes by way of Moore, who draws Tannehill into this discussion, then slyly smiles at the camera as the rookie falls into an infinite abyss of naïveté. Sweet payback on the kid who stole his job.
Back to Vontae ...
It's ironic that Davis might have sealed his fate in Miami on a play in which he ran an interception back for a score.
Davis yanked down Atlanta Falcons wideout Harry Douglas to step in front of the pass on Friday night, getting flagged for pass interference in the process. It was a play that showed everything that frustrated the Dolphins about their former first-round pick: Physically great, but still rough around the edges.
"The interception was ridiculous," defensive backs coach Lou Anarumo tells Philbin. "He took the guy and threw him to the ground. I've never seen anything like it. Just a total lack of awareness."
With reports like this, no wonder Philbin signed off on Ireland's deal.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
They signed him for big dollars in the last year and they probably were taking it easy on him thru camp, he was nursing a couple of mystery injuries, records 2 sacks in game 3 the other night, he's ready to roll.
df1wiseguy
Footballguy
"Hey, watch the f bomb" cmon
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I can't tell if that is creative editing or not, but he certainly seems like a slacker. They show Bush out there doing extra sled drills and being a vocal leader, and this dude is late to everything. Even in the meeting they showed, he didn't seem to care.
Sarnoff
Footballguy
I still don't get why he jumped off the jet ski to pee. There was no one visible anywhere in any direction, all the way to the horizon. Just whip it out and go off the side. Or pee down his leg, he's already soaking wet. Dude almost got killed because he's embarrassed to drop trou when all by himself?
df1wiseguy
Footballguy
He also stated he got overheated in the sun and needed to cool down.
Speaking of which, I believe I remember reading a similar story about the ultimate gym rat, Larry Bird. He lived and breathed basketball all through high school and college, but he was never really an NBA fan. When he joined the Celtics, he didn't know much about other teams or players or divisions or whatnot.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Id imagine its more common then you think. These guys play & practice all the time. Do you think they wanna spend time watching games or following the sport in the little free time they have?
Shutout
Footballguy
No. People do describe it as someone who is often working on the physical side of things but it is also said in reference to someone who is always studying the game in general (watching tape, talking to vet players/former players). In general, I think you find that most players that have a true understanding of football and their role in it kinda know basic information. Tannehill actually said he knows "most" of the conferences in the NFL. I would hope so...AFC...NFC..done.I'm sure its no big deal but perception amongst people means something so I thik it just add fuel to the flame if he appears to struggle at some point making reads or knowing what to do. People might begin to question his smarts. I can guarantee you someone will bring a sign to a stadium this year that says something like "TEAM X...We are in the NFC NORTH". People just expect their leader to appear smart and, in general, the guy that is studying the most and a guy that is passionate about football. Those comments sounded counter to that.
Shutout
Footballguy
I guess its one extreme or the other then because I see players at games all the time (NBA players at college and high school games, NFL guys flying from Florida to California to catch a regular season football game, NFL guys on bye weeks going to other games). I guess its just different. I can remember guys like K. Bryant reciting an extensive history of the players that came before him, knowing their importance, what they accomplished, etc. I remember greg maddux one time knowing the schedule of every team that was in a playoff race coming down the stretch, where the games where and what needed to happen for each to put them in or out of the running.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
I was with you in initially thinking it wasn't a big deal, but I think it's safe to worry about Tannehill's intelligence after he dropped these bombs:"Don't really know the divisions even really the conferences," he said. "I know most of the conferences, but some of those I really have no clue. And they don't make sense! You have the AFC East and we're freaking in the bottom of the map. The directions don't make any sense where the teams actually are."
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3optic
Footballguy
Speaking as an unbiased observer, I like Joe Philbin quite a bit. He seems very bright, professional and is a straight shooter which should afford him a lot of respect in the locker room. Trust is the #1 quality for leadership IMO. Guys from his coaching tree tend to be winners and not because of crazy personality quirks and motivational stunts but because they can out coach most of the competition. We just need to see if he gets enough talent on the roster...
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TitanicHornet
Footballguy
Was a good episode but the Davis trade conversation/meeting could have been handled better by both HBO and the GM. Davis is on his way out and the GM stops him to give him some advice after he clearly stated he wanted to call his grandma? Davis should have just been like "dude, I dont play for you anymore, your opinion doesnt mean ####, let me get the F outta here" ... thats the way I saw it anyways.
petenice15
Footballguy
Guys like Tannehill and Sanchez don't have a clue about NFL history bc they focus on themselves and how good they look in the mirror. Guys like Luck and the Manning's live, eat and sleep football all day every day. I'll take my chances with the latter bc they were born to be NFL QBs and that's all they want to do with their lives.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Not if Davis is a professional and is trying to improve. You take free advice when it is offered. You dont have to use it, but you definitely take the 12 seconds to listen to it, and then call grandma. She can wait 12 seconds.Lots of reasons to crush Jeff Ireland though. Lot of wasted picks and bad trades in his history with the team. Thank you Bill Parcells for taking that dump on our team's front porch, and leaving it there for us to clean up after you left.I thought it was pretty cool watching that trade go down. It was very similar to a fantasy football trade. Started with conversation over text. Final details were worked over the phone. Trade was done within 24 hours of when the discussions began. From what we saw, Ireland really only consulted Philbin - no coaches meeting, or even a consult with the DC. Not sure 24 hours is enough time to evaluate trading a player that you spent a 1st round pick on 3 years ago without some in-depth discussions with the DC and the DB coach, along with the HC. Seemed worthy of calling a meeting, but since I have never seen a trade happen behind the scenes like that, I have no idea what is typical.
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McGarnicle
Footballguy
Doplhins go 4-12 this year is my guess. And I regret drafting Bush, he's going to get absolutely crushed, probably miss a bunch of games again. What else do they have on offense?
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
I don't know, but if a business is gonna pay you $10mill, I'd think I'd bone up on the particulars of the business...
I mean KC in the NFC east? really?
Doesn't he even watch the NFL on Thanksgiving for the past 10 years? Read a newspaper, maybe play some fantasy football with some high school buddies?
I was pretty concerned when I saw that.. I liked what I saw before that piece.. but now I don't know what to think of Tannehill...
Ireland is not long to be a GM much longer..
I flip flop on Philbin at times I like his style and other times I can't see how this guy is going to inspire this team...
I mean KC in the NFC east? really?
Doesn't he even watch the NFL on Thanksgiving for the past 10 years? Read a newspaper, maybe play some fantasy football with some high school buddies?
I was pretty concerned when I saw that.. I liked what I saw before that piece.. but now I don't know what to think of Tannehill...
Ireland is not long to be a GM much longer..
I flip flop on Philbin at times I like his style and other times I can't see how this guy is going to inspire this team...
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
The dynamic and contrast of these two players has actually been quite interesting. To the point that it could be creative editing..it's possible. But Bush has:- Taken on a leadership role with a couple of other veterans and tried to establish a communication council between the coaching staff and the players- Been shown doing extra work and training on his own, and if I'm not mistaken - this was taken note of by the coaching staff/PhilbinOur first look at Thomas was:- him in the doghouse, shoelaces untied being undressed for tardiness/unprofessionalism.Those constrasts speak to trust - trust a coach has in a player. The mistakes Thomas makes, the possibility exists that they'll be rationalized as a direct result of Thomas' lack of attention to detail. Bush's mistakes, the possibility exists they'll be rationalized as single incidents. And you start to understand perhaps why players emerge (or don't emerge) for reasons other than talent.
LittleLarry
Footballguy
My favorite part was when Tannehill tried to throw a block during gametime and then gets scolded by Jake Long.
"Don't do that again. Get out of the way."
"Don't do that again. Get out of the way."
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He was candid about it though. T-Hill did not seem to worry about what others would think. Put another way he seems to be honest.
VaTerp
Footballguy
My 
on the show-
Still think some in this thread are too quick to judge on Philbin but there is something about him that just doesnt seem quite right to me.
Ireland comes off as a MAJOR ##### to me in just about every regard.
Vontae Davis looked like a scared child when he had his phone ready to call his grandmother. The talent is there but I think his issues stem from some major immaturity. Philbin cited his lack of self-awareness. And to be honest, he just doesnt seem that bright. At 24 he still has time to "get it." But this is the NFL so he doesnt have much time.
Tannehill not knowing the divisions does bother me a little bit. He doesnt have to be into pro football like a fan but I've known plenty of Division 1 and pro athletes who are very knowledgeable about the league they play in or aspire to play in and are big sports fans in general. It might not mean anything in the end but I like people who are intellectually curious and have a passion for what they do for a living. I find those people to tend to be more successful.
on the show-Still think some in this thread are too quick to judge on Philbin but there is something about him that just doesnt seem quite right to me.
Ireland comes off as a MAJOR ##### to me in just about every regard.
Vontae Davis looked like a scared child when he had his phone ready to call his grandmother. The talent is there but I think his issues stem from some major immaturity. Philbin cited his lack of self-awareness. And to be honest, he just doesnt seem that bright. At 24 he still has time to "get it." But this is the NFL so he doesnt have much time.
Tannehill not knowing the divisions does bother me a little bit. He doesnt have to be into pro football like a fan but I've known plenty of Division 1 and pro athletes who are very knowledgeable about the league they play in or aspire to play in and are big sports fans in general. It might not mean anything in the end but I like people who are intellectually curious and have a passion for what they do for a living. I find those people to tend to be more successful.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Lamar Miller baby! CHOO CHOO!
TitanicHornet
Footballguy
Did you see the look on his face? it told the whole story. He just wanted to get outta there, I doubt he even cared what he had to say.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
His brain was probably already checked out at that point.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I do like this show for the inside look at the work needed to excel. Hard work alone doesn't always translate into success. Les Brown worked his ### off but still couldn't block, but I think the show does a good job to highlight the kind of work ethic and professionalism it takes to make it in the NFL.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Dolphins will end up one of the two worst teams this season. Ownership might give Ireland one more year to see if his moves/picks pan out, but he could be fired at the end of this year. And if he goes, I think Philbin goes as well. The coach has no personality. The team has seemed to take on that lack of personality. They traded Marshall, cut Ocho without giving him much of a shot(he may have been done though) on a "third strike" based on a twitter post and dropping F-bombs in a press conf. (was he warned prior to that by his coach that swearing is for bad boys?), and they trade their best DB for picks overnight. So no talent, no identity, and a rookie QB. Not good.
