Has Shaun Alexander gone crazy? (1 Viewer)

[seahawk 17]

C'mon, Seahawk... Alexander is more than just a "pretty good back". He's an *extremely* gifted player, big, quick, with uncanny vision. And it goes witout saying that he's an animal in the redzone. Plus, he's intelligent, plays hard, and from what I''ve seen is a good citizen and a stand up guy. He's missed maybe one game in his NFL career.

Jeez, you just got to the Superbowl and now you're anxious to dump the best RB in the history of your franchise?

Objectively, Edgerrin James is the only available free agent RB who's at Alexander's talent level. So sure, go ahead and sign Edge if you want, but he's not gonna outproduce Alexander's numbers. Plus, he won't be cheap either, and don't forget he's played three more seasons than SA.

As for these other FA's on the market, it'd be a huge roll of the dice to suppose that Seattle can just plug in any ol' RB and get anything close to the production Alexander has been dishing out over the past few seasons. The tread on Ahman Green's tires has all but worn through. Michael Bennett? I don't care if you had Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, AND Jerry Kramer blocking for the guy, Bennett can't carry Alexander's shoes. Or maybe you want Jamal "I've done my stretch in The Joint and now I'm Fat and Slow" Lewis. Good luck.

Or maybe you SA haters out there actually believe that MoMo (who BTW only weighs 200 lbs) is gonna carry the ball over 400 times and bang out 2,000 yards and 30 TDs!? This is a pipe dream, my friend.

I sincerely doubt there are "10 other backs in this league" who could put up Shaun Alexander-type numbers, and as for the handful who probably could (LaDaniain, Tiki Barber, Rudi Johnson, maybe two or three other guys), the fact is that they're not available.

In short, RBs of Shaun Alexander's caliber don't grow on trees. Seattle has a window of opportunity to get back to the Superbowl, but it won't be open for long and the wrong move to replace SA could be a *huge* setback for the Seahawk franchise.

Is Shaun Alexander asking for more $ than he can get? Yes. And he and his agent probably quite aware that he won't get those kind of dollars. It's all part of the negotiation process. But the best thing for both Alexander and the Seahawks would be that they work something out. As a fan you should recognize that, and like others have stated, be careful what you wish for.

You act like I said Alexander was the worse RB ever. I am saying that he is nothing but a distraction, a me first player, and one of the softest RB's I have ever seen. Seattle's offense runs through the QB, so to drop 80 million dollars on a RB would be stupid. The following RB's are available for cheap and would rush for over 1,000 yards and score double digit TD's in Seattle's offense.

Dominic Rhodes, Chester Taylor, LaBrandon Toefield, Jamal Lewis, Edgerin James, Deshaun Foster, Tony Fisher, Najeh Davenport.

(This list is assuming a player stays healthy)

SA get real, realize how good you got it, or

 

[B-Deep]

C'mon, Seahawk... Alexander is more than just a "pretty good back". He's an *extremely* gifted player, big, quick, with uncanny vision. And it goes witout saying that he's an animal in the redzone. Plus, he's intelligent, plays hard, and from what I''ve seen is a good citizen and a stand up guy. He's missed maybe one game in his NFL career.

Jeez, you just got to the Superbowl and now you're anxious to dump the best RB in the history of your franchise?

Objectively, Edgerrin James is the only available free agent RB who's at Alexander's talent level. So sure, go ahead and sign Edge if you want, but he's not gonna outproduce Alexander's numbers. Plus, he won't be cheap either, and don't forget he's played three more seasons than SA.

As for these other FA's on the market, it'd be a huge roll of the dice to suppose that Seattle can just plug in any ol' RB and get anything close to the production Alexander has been dishing out over the past few seasons. The tread on Ahman Green's tires has all but worn through. Michael Bennett? I don't care if you had Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, AND Jerry Kramer blocking for the guy, Bennett can't carry Alexander's shoes. Or maybe you want Jamal "I've done my stretch in The Joint and now I'm Fat and Slow" Lewis. Good luck.

Or maybe you SA haters out there actually believe that MoMo (who BTW only weighs 200 lbs) is gonna carry the ball over 400 times and bang out 2,000 yards and 30 TDs!? This is a pipe dream, my friend.

I sincerely doubt there are "10 other backs in this league" who could put up Shaun Alexander-type numbers, and as for the handful who probably could (LaDaniain, Tiki Barber, Rudi Johnson, maybe two or three other guys), the fact is that they're not available.

In short, RBs of Shaun Alexander's caliber don't grow on trees. Seattle has a window of opportunity to get back to the Superbowl, but it won't be open for long and the wrong move to replace SA could be a *huge* setback for the Seahawk franchise.

Is Shaun Alexander asking for more $ than he can get? Yes. And he and his agent probably quite aware that he won't get those kind of dollars. It's all part of the negotiation process. But the best thing for both Alexander and the Seahawks would be that they work something out. As a fan you should recognize that, and like others have stated, be careful what you wish for.

You act like I said Alexander was the worse RB ever. I am saying that he is nothing but a distraction, a me first player, and one of the softest RB's I have ever seen. Seattle's offense runs through the QB, so to drop 80 million dollars on a RB would be stupid. The following RB's are available for cheap and would rush for over 1,000 yards and score double digit TD's in Seattle's offense.

Dominic Rhodes, Chester Taylor, LaBrandon Toefield, Jamal Lewis, Edgerin James, Deshaun Foster, Tony Fisher, Najeh Davenport.

(This list is assuming a player stays healthy)

SA get real, realize how good you got it, or

yeah, edge is gonna come real cheap...and 1100 yards and 10 tds is not quite equivalent to 1800 yards and 27 tds, not even close

do you think that maybe the nubers that Alexander have put up helped hassleback out just a little bit?

I am so sick of hearing how SOFT Alexander is, that is just garbage. He's a monster, he never misses time (LT) he is GREAT and short yardage (Edge) and somehow someone called him soft and it sticks. It is nonsense

 

[Banger]

C'mon, Seahawk... Alexander is more than just a "pretty good back". He's an *extremely* gifted player, big, quick, with uncanny vision. And it goes witout saying that he's an animal in the redzone. Plus, he's intelligent, plays hard, and from what I''ve seen is a good citizen and a stand up guy. He's missed maybe one game in his NFL career.

Jeez, you just got to the Superbowl and now you're anxious to dump the best RB in the history of your franchise?

Objectively, Edgerrin James is the only available free agent RB who's at Alexander's talent level. So sure, go ahead and sign Edge if you want, but he's not gonna outproduce Alexander's numbers. Plus, he won't be cheap either, and don't forget he's played three more seasons than SA. 

As for these other FA's on the market, it'd be a huge roll of the dice to suppose that Seattle can just plug in any ol' RB and get anything close to the production Alexander has been dishing out over the past few seasons. The tread on Ahman Green's tires has all but worn through. Michael Bennett? I don't care if you had Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, AND Jerry Kramer blocking for the guy, Bennett can't carry Alexander's shoes. Or maybe you want Jamal "I've done my stretch in The Joint and now I'm Fat and Slow" Lewis. Good luck.

Or maybe you SA haters out there actually believe that MoMo (who BTW only weighs 200 lbs) is gonna carry the ball over 400 times and bang out 2,000 yards and 30 TDs!? This is a pipe dream, my friend.

I sincerely doubt there are "10 other backs in this league" who could put up Shaun Alexander-type numbers, and as for the handful who probably could (LaDaniain, Tiki Barber, Rudi Johnson, maybe two or three other guys), the fact is that they're not available. 

In short, RBs of Shaun Alexander's caliber don't grow on trees. Seattle has a window of opportunity to get back to the Superbowl, but it won't be open for long and the wrong move to replace SA could be a *huge* setback for the Seahawk franchise.

Is Shaun Alexander asking for more $ than he can get? Yes. And he and his agent probably quite aware that he won't get those kind of dollars. It's all part of the negotiation process. But the best thing for both Alexander and the Seahawks would be that they work something out. As a fan you should recognize that, and like others have stated, be careful what you wish for.

You act like I said Alexander was the worse RB ever. I am saying that he is nothing but a distraction, a me first player, and one of the softest RB's I have ever seen. Seattle's offense runs through the QB, so to drop 80 million dollars on a RB would be stupid. The following RB's are available for cheap and would rush for over 1,000 yards and score double digit TD's in Seattle's offense.

Dominic Rhodes, Chester Taylor, LaBrandon Toefield, Jamal Lewis, Edgerin James, Deshaun Foster, Tony Fisher, Najeh Davenport.

(This list is assuming a player stays healthy)

SA get real, realize how good you got it, or

LOL, cmon putting SA in a class with Rhodes, Taylor, Toefield, Fisher, Foster, Davenport is an absolute joke. Those guys have been career backups and to think they could carry the load full time is a HUGE assumption. Could they get 1000 yards probably but what does that mean? SA plays every game (no one on the list you put together can say the same) ran for 1800 and 25+ tds so they go from the #1 rush offense to #30, doesn't sound so good to me. I am not saying they should pay SA the money he's asking for but to put those guys (with the exception of Lewis/James) in the same sentence with SA is ridiculous.

 

[TheLaw]

SA = playoffs

 

[DoctorDetroit]

It is so fun to pile on Alexander. Seattle will miss him. Bank on it. anyone who thinks the hawks can plug someone in and get alexander's numbers is kidding themselves.

They'll plug two in and they'll get more total yards because one of them may be able to catch a pass. They won't get the 27 TDs, but they will get over 2000 total yards from RBBC. Book it if he's not re-inked.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

SA = playoffs

So Arizona will win the divison if the Seahawks don't have SA. Sounds like a sig bet.

 

[dpeease]

SA = playoffs

The O-Line needs SA just as much as he needs them. No one remebers a great O-line w/o an additional offensive threat to take advantage of it. I hope you haters end up with L Toefield.

 

[Trig2U]

Sorry Seahawk 17. I'm not trying to crack on you or anything, I just think you're waaaayyy underselling Alexander because you resent his contract demands. I think all I said was that I disagree with the idea you can just go out there, shake the tree, and replace the guy.

You can certainly argue that they can't afford to pay him that much money, and maybe that's what the Seahawks organization will conclude too. Like I said, I doubt even Alexander and his agent really expect to get that kind of deal, and that's what negotations are all about. And I have no doubt that Alexander's stats would suffer if he goes somewhere else, but I'll stick by my contection that minus SA the Seahawks running game would take a big step backward. A BIG step.

Also, I don't see how he's been "nothing but a distraction". I haven't followed it super closely but it seems like Alexander hasn't been griping in public or trying to negotiate through the press, and he didn't make a big deal out of his contract during the season. From what I've read, whenever he's been asked about it Alexander has said he fully expects to be back in a Seattle uniform, and that he hopes that it works out that way.

I think it's safe to say that most NFL players become "me-first" during contract negotiations. We all know that the window for a pro athlete to cash in is very narrow, and that's especially true of running backs. NFL players don't have a guaranteed contract, and running backs have maybe 4-8 years to bank pretty much all the money they're gonna earn in their lifetime. On the field Alexander works hard and doesn't point fingers at his teammates. No, I disagree... Terrell Owens is a "me first" player. Randy Moss is a "me first" player. Peyton Manning just might be a "me-first" player. Shaun Alexander isn't in that category.

As for tagging him as "one of the softest RBs" you've ever seen, I can only point out that Alexander has consistently produced insane numbers and has missed I believe only one game in his career. I know he has played through injury from time to time. I seem to remember he was late for a game once when his wife went into labor. I mean, what more can the guy do? If he was "tough" would he rush for 3,000 yards and bang in 40 TDs!?

Finally, these other backs you mention. Sure, Edgerrin James is a great back, and on a par with Alexander in terms of natural ability, but he would not be cheap, plus he's three years older than Alexander.

Foster is talented but can't seem to stay healthy, and he may not be available in any case. In my opinion, Jamal Lewis is running out of gas, and besides he and Najeh both carry some serious baggage. Chester Taylor? I've got nothing against the guy, he might end up being a decent starting NFL RB, but as a Seahawk fan are you sure you want to bank your team's chances of getting back to the Super Bowl on an unproven 6th round pick out of Toledo? The fact is that we can speculate as to what Taylor or Davenport or LaBrandon Toefield or Tony Fisher etc might produce in Alexander's place, but even if they could get 1000 yards and double digit TDs that would only be *half* of what Alexander produced last year.

I'll tell ya what though, Seahawk. If LaBrandon Toefield carries your team to the Super Bowl next year I'll be right back on this thread to congratulate you and admit I was wrong.

 

[Rockchild]

Finally, these other backs you mention. Sure, Edgerrin James is a great back, and on a par with Alexander in terms of natural ability, but he would not be cheap, plus he's three years older than Alexander.

Actually, James is a year younger than Alexander.Edgerrin James- 8/1/78= 27 yo

Shaun Alexander- 8/30/77= 28 yo

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Finally, these other backs you mention. Sure, Edgerrin James is a great back, and on a par with Alexander in terms of natural ability, but he would not be cheap, plus he's three years older than Alexander.

Actually, James is a year younger than Alexander.Edgerrin James- 8/1/78= 27 yo

Shaun Alexander- 8/30/77= 28 yo

And Jamal Lewis "running out of gas" is even younger ( 08/26/1979). An argument with some consistency would be great.

.

 

[B-Deep]

Finally, these other backs you mention. Sure, Edgerrin James is a great back, and on a par with Alexander in terms of natural ability, but he would not be cheap, plus he's three years older than Alexander.

Actually, James is a year younger than Alexander.Edgerrin James- 8/1/78= 27 yo

Shaun Alexander- 8/30/77= 28 yo

And Jamal Lewis "running out of gas" is even younger ( 08/26/1979). An argument with some consistency would be great.

.

Anyone who thinks jamal lewis is near the back that Alexander is has serious problems.We'll all be watching, we'll see how hassleback does with no serious running threat, we'll see if Labrandon Toefield or whatever back they plug in is really as good as alexander.

The question to me is why would Alexander have ANY desire to return when Seahawk fans think so little of him? He puts up those numbers in a REAL football town like Pitt or Green Bay or Cleveland than he is a HERO. Up there in Starbucks land people cannot wait to send him on his way.

Astounding.

 

[ren hoek]

It is so fun to pile on Alexander. Seattle will miss him. Bank on it. anyone who thinks the hawks can plug someone in and get alexander's numbers is kidding themselves.

I disagree. I can watch someone like Edge or LT for only a hand full of plays and think "man, that guy can get yards on his own even if it's a busted play." I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own. He's an above average running back playing behind a fantastic offensive line, and he's commanding the salary of an elite player. Again, if Alexander is that good, why wouldn't any team part with a 2nd round pick for him a year ago?

 

[B-Deep]

It is so fun to pile on Alexander. Seattle will miss him. Bank on it. anyone who thinks the hawks can plug someone in and get alexander's numbers is kidding themselves.

I disagree. I can watch someone like Edge or LT for only a hand full of plays and think "man, that guy can get yards on his own even if it's a busted play." I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own. He's an above average running back playing behind a fantastic offensive line, and he's commanding the salary of an elite player. Again, if Alexander is that good, why wouldn't any team part with a 2nd round pick for him a year ago?

The same could be said of edge, why didn't anyone part with a 2nd round for him?A likely answer is that if you waity a year one or both could be on the free agent market, which would have been an acurate assessment

OR, maybe no RB is worth what they want. Who knows, but you look at what alexander has done and if he is only an above average back then you must be looking at the best offensive ine in history, i would expect 5 hall of famers. Over the past 5 years no back in the NFL comes close to what Alexander has accomplished.

Like I said, we'll see. I am sure there will be an above average back in there. My guess is that when he fails it will be ebcause of "line injuries" or "Hassleback's regression" or "bad playcaling"

Alerxander seems destined to be looked down upon by hawks fans, which is great. They don't deserve him.

 

[TheLaw]

It is so fun to pile on Alexander. Seattle will miss him. Bank on it. anyone who thinks the hawks can plug someone in and get alexander's numbers is kidding themselves.

I disagree. I can watch someone like Edge or LT for only a hand full of plays and think "man, that guy can get yards on his own even if it's a busted play." I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own. He's an above average running back playing behind a fantastic offensive line, and he's commanding the salary of an elite player. Again, if Alexander is that good, why wouldn't any team part with a 2nd round pick for him a year ago?

Marshall Faulk only went for a 2nd and a 5th and Bettis for a 2nd and 4th. 2nd is high for a RB, especially one who would be an UFA the following season.

 

[mbuehner]

I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own.

I recommend watching a Seahawks game sometime.

 

[ren hoek]

Hey, here's a sig-bet opportunity. I believe that there's a great number of backs in this league who could play behind Seattle's line and produce numbers similar to that of Alexander. So here's the deal:

ASSUMING that all of these pre-conditions are true next year

--Seattle's starting line this year of T Walter Jones, G Steve Hutchinson, C Robbie Tobeck OR C Chris Spencer, G Sean Locklear (?), and whoever their RT was this year, all return and each play in at least 12 games next year

--Matt Hasselbeck is healthy and plays in at least 12 games

--Darrell Jackson is healthy and plays in at least 12 games

--Seattle's main replacement for Shaun Alexander gets at least 300 carries (SA has had 309, 295, 326, 353 and 370 over the last 5 years)

Then I predict the following:

--The replacement RB will RUSH for AT LEAST 1,350 yards next year, or 84 ypg

--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

I win IF:

--The primary back goes for 1,350 yds AND scores 15 TDs, REGARDLESS of whether each of the pre-conditions are met

The bet is VOIDABLE IF:

--any of the pre-conditions are not met

--SA returns to the Seahawks

--The new replacement RB is either Edge or Jamal Lewis, the only two backs in free agency that I feel should be considered "elite."

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

I lose IF:

--all of the pre-conditions are met and the starting RB fails to meet my specified predictions.

The only thing left for anybody who wants to take this bet to do is to specify which FA RBs would nullify the bet. The only selections as FA RBs that I feel should nullify the bet are Edge, obviously SA, and Jamal Lewis, if I were betting on the replacement RB to not meet these fairly lofty predictions. Only 8 RBs met or eclipsed the 1,350 yardage mark. Anyone who feels that SA is truly an elite back shouldn't have any problem taking this bet.

 

[ren hoek]

I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own.

I recommend watching a Seahawks game sometime.

I saw SA's 5-TD game against the Vikings a few years ago, and I saw him in the Super Bowl. I still think he's just an above average back.

 

[B-Deep]

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

So, you really want to say that total rushing TDs from the team will be 15.

 

[ren hoek]

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

So, you really want to say that total rushing TDs from the team will be 15.

Yeah, easily.

 

[B-Deep]

I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own.

I recommend watching a Seahawks game sometime.

I saw SA's 5-TD game against the Vikings a few years ago, and I saw him in the Super Bowl. I still think he's just an above average back.

So, an elite back would have scored what, like 40 tds this year?For him to set the NFL record in TDs being an above average back you have to belive that his offensive line is the best in history.

 

[B-Deep]

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

So, you really want to say that total rushing TDs from the team will be 15.

Yeah, easily.

Which is 1/2 of what they scored this year...

 

[ren hoek]

Then I predict the following:

--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

...

The bet is VOIDABLE IF:

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

I realize this contradiction leaves open the possibility that the RB WON'T score 15 TDs, and yet I still WON'T LOSE. But I wanted to leave the original prediction unedited so that if I am to make any changes, it is clearly agreed to by everyone else.Can I change the second parameter of my prediction to be "Seattle RB corps will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year" ?

 

[mbuehner]

I saw SA's 5-TD game against the Vikings a few years ago, and I saw him in the Super Bowl. I still think he's just an above average back.

Yeh, and that argument makes no sense. The guy had one of the very best seasons in NFL history and he's been in that ball park for several consequtive years. The question becomes _what more can he do to impress you_? Even if he did have the greatest season in NFL history you would still chock it up to his line. So what good is your opinion if there is no way to disprove it?

 

[ren hoek]

I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own.

I recommend watching a Seahawks game sometime.

I saw SA's 5-TD game against the Vikings a few years ago, and I saw him in the Super Bowl. I still think he's just an above average back.

So, an elite back would have scored what, like 40 tds this year?For him to set the NFL record in TDs being an above average back you have to belive that his offensive line is the best in history.

I can't speculate on what backs who I consider elite would have done in this offense. I can only comment on what I've seen of Alexander, and compared to what I've seen from the likes of LT, Jamal, and Tiki, I still consider SA to be an above average running back.I take it you perceive Priest Holmes as an elite back too then? Larry Johnson as well?

 

[B-Deep]

Then I predict the following:

--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

...

The bet is VOIDABLE IF:

--The new replacement meets the yardage prediction, but loses TDs to a goal line back. In the case that the goal-line (or "big") back DOES vulture TDs from the main back, then subtract the number of TDs that said goal-line back scores from the original prediction of 15. For example, if Mack Strong or any other back-up scores 5 TDs next year then the new TD total for the replacement back is 10 TDs.

I realize this contradiction leaves open the possibility that the RB WON'T score 15 TDs, and yet I still WON'T LOSE. But I wanted to leave the original prediction unedited so that if I am to make any changes, it is clearly agreed to by everyone else.Can I change the second parameter of my prediction to be "Seattle RB corps will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year" ?

It's a dumb bet anyway, sooo many ways it can be voided. And you are prepared to use the team getting 500 less yards and 14 less tds as PROOF that Alexander is only average.This just in, 14 tds is a LOT!

 

[mbuehner]

The replacement RB will RUSH for AT LEAST 1,350 yards next year, or 84 ypg--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

So if Alexander's replacement rushes for 71.8% of what he did, for 53% of the TDs, that in your mind will prove that the replacement is as good as Alexander and hence SA is an average back? Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[ren hoek]

I saw SA's 5-TD game against the Vikings a few years ago, and I saw him in the Super Bowl. I still think he's just an above average back.

Yeh, and that argument makes no sense. The guy had one of the very best seasons in NFL history and he's been in that ball park for several consequtive years. The question becomes _what more can he do to impress you_? Even if he did have the greatest season in NFL history you would still chock it up to his line. So what good is your opinion if there is no way to disprove it?

You can't ever empirically prove that Shaun Alexander is a better RB than Chester Taylor or whatever RB you want to mention. We have every reason to believe that SA is better than someone like Antowain Smith or Duce Staley, but am I supposed to believe that Alexander is comparable to the likes of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders because he's posted good fantasy numbers? Putting up good statistics != being an elite player.

 

[ren hoek]

It's a dumb bet anyway, sooo many ways it can be voided. And you are prepared to use the team getting 500 less yards and 14 less tds as PROOF that Alexander is only average.

This just in, 14 tds is a LOT!

For all I know, they could end up sticking freaking Olandis Gary in there. Am I supposed to predict 1,800 yards for any schlub they start at RB?

 

[mbuehner]

It's a dumb bet anyway, sooo many ways it can be voided. And you are prepared to use the team getting 500 less yards and 14 less tds as PROOF that Alexander is only average.

Its only 150 or so fantasy points. Is that really a big swing? Its only the difference between, what, Larry Johnson and Mike Anderson? No big deal.

 

[B-Deep]

The replacement RB will RUSH for AT LEAST 1,350 yards next year, or 84 ypg

--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

So if Alexander's replacement rushes for 71.8% of what he did, for 53% of the TDs, that in your mind will prove that the replacement is as good as Alexander and hence SA is an average back? Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[ren hoek]

The replacement RB will RUSH for AT LEAST 1,350 yards next year, or 84 ypg

--The replacement RB will score AT LEAST 15 TDs next year

So if Alexander's replacement rushes for 71.8% of what he did, for 53% of the TDs, that in your mind will prove that the replacement is as good as Alexander and hence SA is an average back? Makes perfect sense to me.

SA just finished up a career year. Do you really expect him to ever rush for 1,880 yards again? He's averaged 1,500.8 yards per season over the last 5 years, and 330.6 carries over that same timespan. My predictions are only 150 yards away from the first mark, and 30 carries below the second.I'm not about to make a bet based on SA's career year, that's foolish, and to expect SA himself to repeat it again is foolish as well. You're taking one phenomenal season into account while I'm taking a cumulative effort to make my predictions.

 

[mbuehner]

have every reason to believe that SA is better than someone like Antowain Smith or Duce Staley, but am I supposed to believe that Alexander is comparable to the likes of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders because he's posted good fantasy numbers? Putting up good statistics != being an elite player.

First, who said anything about putting him in the top 3 of all time? You realize there is a difference between being an elite back in a given season and being a HOFer, much less a top 3 HOFer? Was Priest Holmes another Jim Brown? Shawn Alexander is one of the top 3 back in the NFL today. That doesnt say anything to how good he is compared to the best ever. There is a bit of a gap between Antowain Smith and Barry Sanders to fit in dont you think? This may be the most assinine argument i've been in in some time.

 

[mbuehner]

I'm not about to make a bet based on SA's career year, that's foolish, and to expect SA himself to repeat it again is foolish as well. You're taking one phenomenal season into account while I'm taking a cumulative effort to make my predictions

But I thought his success was due entirely to his O-line and he never makes plays on his own? So what does that have to do with his career year?

 

[ren hoek]

have every reason to believe that SA is better than someone like Antowain Smith or Duce Staley, but am I supposed to believe that Alexander is comparable to the likes of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders because he's posted good fantasy numbers? Putting up good statistics != being an elite player.

First, who said anything about putting him in the top 3 of all time? You realize there is a difference between being an elite back in a given season and being a HOFer, much less a top 3 HOFer? Was Priest Holmes another Jim Brown? Shawn Alexander is one of the top 3 back in the NFL today. That doesnt say anything to how good he is compared to the best ever. There is a bit of a gap between Antowain Smith and Barry Sanders to fit in dont you think? This may be the most assinine argument i've been in in some time.

asinine.By the way, there's probably a good 5-10 backs that I'd take over Alexander right now, so while the Brown/Sanders example may have been a stretch, I still don't consider Alexander to be an elite back. Not right now. Probably not ever.

 

[madsklz]

I've never seen Shaun Alexander make plays on his own.

I seem to remember a run against Arizona in Week 9, where he busted off an 88 yard run. Started off right cut it back, made some people miss. His offensive line gave him a 3 yard gain, he made 85 more yards and 6 out of it

 

[ren hoek]

I'm not about to make a bet based on SA's career year, that's foolish, and to expect SA himself to repeat it again is foolish as well. You're taking one phenomenal season into account while I'm taking a cumulative effort to make my predictions

But I thought his success was due entirely to his O-line and he never makes plays on his own? So what does that have to do with his career year?

You're putting words into my mouth.I never said his success was due entirely to his offensive line, and I said that I've never personally seen him make plays on his own. I'm just saying that Alexander is an above average back who has played behind a fantastic line the last couple of years, and I think he'll prove that notion in due time.

 

[ren hoek]

I have to go to class. I'll revisit this a bit later.

 

[Verbal Kint]

I see SA's situation being very similar to Clinton Portis' situation in Denver a couple years ago. Seattle believes they can plug in a good back into their system and get elite production. Therefore they will not pay a RB top money.

SA, like Portis, will go to another team and will still have very good, top-10 type numbers, but will not live up to the elite stats he had in Seattle.

 

[scratcher]

This discussion is moot when Hutchinson leaves...

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Finally, these other backs you mention. Sure, Edgerrin James is a great back, and on a par with Alexander in terms of natural ability, but he would not be cheap, plus he's three years older than Alexander.

Actually, James is a year younger than Alexander.Edgerrin James- 8/1/78= 27 yo

Shaun Alexander- 8/30/77= 28 yo

And Jamal Lewis "running out of gas" is even younger ( 08/26/1979). An argument with some consistency would be great.

.

Anyone who thinks jamal lewis is near the back that Alexander is has serious problems.We'll all be watching, we'll see how hassleback does with no serious running threat, we'll see if Labrandon Toefield or whatever back they plug in is really as good as alexander.

The question to me is why would Alexander have ANY desire to return when Seahawk fans think so little of him? He puts up those numbers in a REAL football town like Pitt or Green Bay or Cleveland than he is a HERO. Up there in Starbucks land people cannot wait to send him on his way.

Astounding.

I never said I wanted him to leave as I believe he is a great RB for the system he is in, and the system appreciates it. My point is that the system will be fine, albeit not as effective without the likes of Alexander and his departure would not be as big of a deal as some may think. Here is why I think this way: Before the playoffs started this year I had always believed that at times Alexander and their dependency on him caused the offense to tank. Sometimes I would think that they were more worried about getting him the TD instead of getting it by any means necessary. I think they grew out of that this year even as Alexander set the TD record. I also knew Alexander would not put them over the top in any playoff game and in fact, he didn't. They got a nice lead against Carolina and that is where Alexander becomes valuable and nearly a perfect match for the system. But against Washington where he was hurt, and then in the Super Bowl I knew Hasselbeck would have to win the game.

Alexander has been the best back in Seahawks history and I really love his style of running and what he means to the team. However he is not worth sacrificing an up and coming defense or the second anchor in the offensive line for and the cost/benefit analysis that I have made suggests that the Seahawks will be just fine as a whole without Alexander. Whether I am correct or not is TBD but I am confident they would still be one of the best teams in the NFL without SA. Do I want to see him back? Yes, very much.

On your point about Seattle being a Starbucks town that is fine because I'm from Detroit. Any fan holding on to players from their NFL teams so tightly as you suggest they should are complete loons. To appreciate what the player has done is one thing, signing him to a 70 million dollar contract at 29 because you want to have his children is another. It's a business and in today's age you better not buy up your favorite players jersey because he'll be wearing a different one in four years. If you want to get attached to players, do it at the college level where you can root for him while he’s in school, and when he graduates to the NFL. And anyone questioning what kind of football town Seattle is; it has by far the best home crowd atmosphere of any stadium in the NFL. At least for one day a week, it is one of the best football towns in the country. For this life long fan....that's good enough.

 

[B-Deep]

Here is why I think this way: Before the playoffs started this year I had always believed that at times Alexander and their dependency on him caused the offense to tank. Sometimes I would think that they were more worried about getting him the TD instead of getting it by any means necessary. I think they grew out of that this year even as Alexander set the TD record.

Right here is when I exit the conversation.Alexander had his most rushes ever, the most rushes in the league, and more TDs then anyone in league history, and your contention is there problem in past years was they relied on SA too much and this year they did better because they relied on him less? I'd also note that Hassleback threw less passs this year than either or the prior 2 years.You are simply not looking at the facts, the team had it's best year ever BECAUSE they relied on Shaun Alexander.Have a great thread because I am out.

 

[ren hoek]

Have a great thread because I am out.

I love when people say farewell during a debate. If you're going to quit on the thread and give up on your own argument, just stop posting.

 

[seahawk 17]

Shaun Alexander is a good back. I appreciate what he has done for my football team.

However, he is a product of the system and the bank should not be broken for him. With the best o-line in football you can plug a less talented back into the offense and still win games.

If Alexander leaves Seattle, Seahawks are still in the playoffs this year..

 

[seahawk 17]

I also want to add if he goes to another team, I see him getting 1200-1300yds and 12 TD's.

That's a huge drop off.

 

[tarheel23]

Shaun Alexander is the most under appreciated Seahawk star in the history of the franchise.

 

[faulkfan]

I can't wait to be rid of this guy.

SA isn't worth anywhere near what he's asking for, but one thing is for dang sure and that is the attention he draws makes Hasselback's job a lot easier. Alexander benefits from Hass' play too and I think both will suffer if SA leaves. However, to say that you'll be glad to get rid of a guy who has consistantly put up outstanding numbers for you and has come no where near being a "cancer" is just not an intelligent thing to suggest. You don't have to like him, but he was a HUGE reason you all got your shot at the Super Bowl this year.

I'll even predict that if he leaves you won't make the NFC championship next year.

 

[Z-Dog]

I also want to add if he goes to another team, I see him getting 1200-1300yds and 12 TD's.

That's a huge drop off.

Wow - you predict his numbers without even knowing which team he goes to? That's pretty impressive. Got any stock picks?

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Here is why I think this way: Before the playoffs started this year I had always believed that at times Alexander and their dependency on him caused the offense to tank. Sometimes I would think that they were more worried about getting him the TD instead of getting it by any means necessary. I think they grew out of that this year even as Alexander set the TD record.

Right here is when I exit the conversation.Alexander had his most rushes ever, the most rushes in the league, and more TDs then anyone in league history, and your contention is there problem in past years was they relied on SA too much and this year they did better because they relied on him less?

I'd also note that Hassleback threw less passs this year than either or the prior 2 years.

You are simply not looking at the facts, the team had it's best year ever BECAUSE they relied on Shaun Alexander.

Have a great thread because I am out.

Are you still angry of the Jennifer and Brad breakup? Good googly moogly, get over it.

 

[gman8343]

If Alexander leaves Seattle, Seahawks are still in the playoffs this year..

I thought the object was to get the best players on your team and win a Super Bowl, not lose them to free agency and just make the playoffs?

 

[encaitar]

Reading this thread makes me laugh. The disregard people show for Shaun's ability is astounding.

Does Shaun benefit from having an extraordinary line and fullback? Yes

Does Seattle benefit from having Shaun Alexander? Most Definitely

It works both ways here. It's a situation that is very like the one in Dallas in the 90's with their bohemoth line and Emmitt Smith. And with both situations people felt that Shaun/Emmitt weren't "elite" backs because of their lines and the fact that their teams had great passing games. Yet, maybe the great passing games were due to the fact that the other teams had to devote 8 guys to the run? Or maybe the lines were only good because they had RBs that had amazing vision and could find the holes so well?

This is the point that I think many people miss when evaluating Alexander. Does he have agility and quickness like LT? No. Does he have hands and the ability to catch passes like Priest or Edge? No. But, none of those guys have vision like Shaun. In fact, I don't think there is anyone in the league that has vision like him. That's why he averages 5+ yards a carry. That's why he doesn't get hurt. VISION. If Shaun leaves Seattle both will suffer. Shaun from a less talented line, and Seattle from a less talented back.(unless they pony up for Edge which makes no sense since he'll command a lot as well) If Seattle wants to win Super Bowls, they'd best find a way to get Shaun to lower his asking price.