Have the Packers lost their killer instinct? (1 Viewer)

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Troy Aikman summed up well what I've thought for a few weeks now. The Packers are playing extremely confidently, to the point that even a false-start penalty is kind of a "so what" nuisance. "We needed 6 yards, now we need 11, doesn't matter cause we'll get them." And the Pack do (they did on the very next play).

But something has bother me about at least the last two games, particularly the second halves. Against St. Louis, we could not move the ball, had some three-and-outs, and had some bad, bad drops. Last night, we nearly let the Vikings steal that game when they had no place being even within 10 points of us.

Are these signs of complacency? Are they signs of trouble developing a game plan that is able to build on a lead and crush any possible comeback? I'm not sure what the deal is, but a chart of Aaron's performance as a game goes on, at least in recent weeks, shows a pretty dramatic decline in production.

The Pack need to be stepping on throats. Maybe I'm just a spoiled Packer fan.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Only undefeated team in the NFL.

 

[sho nuff]

I think at times McCarthy does get complacent in his play calling.

This is not new to this year though.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think they really miss Cullen Jenkins.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I think at times McCarthy does get complacent in his play calling.

This is not new to this year though.

Exactly. This has been a McCarthy issue the past couple of years, nothing to see here. Hell, we had the same issue with Holmgren for years too....

 

[HoTnickZ]

I think it would be prudent to establish some kind of running game at some point as a backup plan.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Interesting point. In a way, the Packers in that sense remind me of the 2000 Rams who also came off a Super Bowl win by going on a tear to open up the next season. And like the Rams, the ridiculous proficiency of the offense is masking the huge drop-off by the defense. That is bound to get them at one point or another. At some point, a team will figure out how to slow the Packers offense down a bit (it happens to ALL teams), and if the Packers defense continues to struggle, the team as a whole will suffer. Should be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I think they really miss Cullen Jenkins.

He's made all the difference in the world for the Eagles.

 

[packersfan]

I don't think they're more complacent; I just think the defense sucks.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Interesting point. In a way, the Packers in that sense remind me of the 2000 Rams who also came off a Super Bowl win by going on a tear to open up the next season. And like the Rams, the ridiculous proficiency of the offense is masking the huge drop-off by the defense. That is bound to get them at one point or another. At some point, a team will figure out how to slow the Packers offense down a bit (it happens to ALL teams), and if the Packers defense continues to struggle, the team as a whole will suffer. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Or....see post #3. This isn't a new issue.Per your comments about the defense drop-off....that is far more concerning. IMO it's a combo of a few things: 1) injuries - Nick Collins, Tramon Williams, Morgan Burnett, Sam Shields, Mike Neal....and 2) loss of a couple key veteran leaders in Cullen Jenkins and maybe even Nick Barnett.That's a lot for one defense to absorb. Oh yeah, Woodson and Matthews have also been injured much of the season....missing many practices and probably not playing at full strength in every game.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

I don't think they're more complacent; I just think the defense sucks.

I'd agree with this. Although, I have so much confidence in Dom Capers, that I truly believe they'll right the ship at some point this season. Take a look at how the Packers Defense has fared so far this season coming out of halftime.Points given up.1st quarter. 342nd quarter. 573rd quarter. 104th quarter 40They haven't given up a third quarter point since week 1 vs NO. To me that shows they are making some seriously good halftime adjustments.

 

[Reepicheep]

I don't think they're more complacent; I just think the defense sucks.

I'd agree with this. Although, I have so much confidence in Dom Capers, that I truly believe they'll right the ship at some point this season. Take a look at how the Packers Defense has fared so far this season coming out of halftime.Points given up.1st quarter. 342nd quarter. 573rd quarter. 104th quarter 40They haven't given up a third quarter point since week 1 vs NO. To me that shows they are making some seriously good halftime adjustments.

I definitely think the defense needs improvement but "sucks" is really going overboard. I looked at the numbers before this week, it was something like 10th in total scoring and 9th in opponent's passer rating. I imagine it's similar after this week. Opponents are racking up a lot of passing yards but at a fairly pedestrian 7.4 yards/attempt, and they are paying dearly for it in the form of interceptions and sacks. Rodgers is forcing opponents to pass, pass, pass and it's winning football because the other guy is almost always going to make more mistakes than Rodgers. That said, it does seem pretty likely that at some point the Packers are going to lose a game or two with scores like 30-27 or 34-31. Getting lit up in the playoffs is a concern but that is still a long ways off, plenty of time to get better.

 

[sho nuff]

I think they really miss Cullen Jenkins.

IMO right now they miss Collins more.Jenkins missed time on his own the past couple of years...and they were like this (complacent/lack of killer instinct) even with him.I do think the D is having issues. Nobody is stepping up opposite Clay to help in the pass rush.And there has not been much time that the entire secondary is out there.Williams injury and now Shields being out...plus being without Collins.I still have confidence in Capers and that he can find something.I wonder why So'oto has not gotten his chance though. Looked pretty good in preseason, showed promise. But he can't get on the field. Its not as if Walden is tearing it up.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.

Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

 

[cr8f]

When did this team have a killer instinct?

 

[Dought Man]

Aaron Rodgers gets 6 drives per game to score points. After that, if they lead by 10-14 or more points, McCathy pulls out a completely different playbook and goes to max protect...1-2 WR sets and runs on 1st and 2nd down. GB is so explosive, but they could be putting up 50 every week if McCathy didn't constantly pull the plug and run out halves.

I understand, its all about winning the games. Just feels like they leave 10-14 pts on the field each week.

 

[cr8f]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

Seriously? 2 weeks ago they adjusted beautifully in the 2nd half against Atlanta, but one game against a good rookie QB (and Shields being out) and they can't adjust anymore. They need a killer instinct but it's one ####### game against a new QB no one has really seen before.

 

[sho nuff]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

Seriously? 2 weeks ago they adjusted beautifully in the 2nd half against Atlanta, but one game against a good rookie QB (and Shields being out) and they can't adjust anymore. They need a killer instinct but it's one ####### game against a new QB no one has really seen before.

Came out in the 3rd quarter this week and went TD, TD, FG, FG.Not sure what games ol Favre boy watched the last few weeks.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

Seriously? 2 weeks ago they adjusted beautifully in the 2nd half against Atlanta, but one game against a good rookie QB (and Shields being out) and they can't adjust anymore. They need a killer instinct but it's one ####### game against a new QB no one has really seen before.

Came out in the 3rd quarter this week and went TD, TD, FG, FG.Not sure what games ol Favre boy watched the last few weeks.

I didn't say they get shut down in the 2nd half. They score at will in the first half, but in the 2nd halfs of games, they do not. It wouldn't be an issue if their defense was worth a damn, but since it's not, they need to continue to score at will. There's no excuse to have been shut down in the passing game against St. Louis last week in the 2nd half, and then, to a lesser extent, against a Minnesota pass defense starting backups at all positions.

 

[Reepicheep]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.

Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

The stats don't really agree with you here. Third quarter scoring by game:

Saints:    7Panthers: 16Bears:     3Broncos:  14Falcons:   9Rams:      0Vikings:  20

That's 69 points, exactly 30% of their total scoring on the season.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.

Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

The stats don't really agree with you here. Third quarter scoring by game:

Saints:    7Panthers: 16Bears:     3Broncos:  14Falcons:   9Rams:      0Vikings:  20

That's 69 points, exactly 30% of their total scoring on the season.

Ok, let me use your stats against you. How many points do they score in the first half, compared to the 2nd half?

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Points given up:

1st quarter. 34

2nd quarter. 57

3rd quarter. 10

4th quarter 40



Points scored:

1st quarter. 52

2nd quarter. 71

3rd quarter. 69

4th quarter. 38



So the Packers have outscored their opponents 69-10 in the 3rd quarter this year. I'd say the coaches on both offense and defense are making pretty good adjustments at halftime.



The only quarter where they trail the opponents is the 4th (38-40), and that is largely due to shutting it down in 3 of the last 4 games. They led going into the 4th quarter in those games, 42-21, 24-3 and 33-17. Now if you think the Packers should keep the foot on the gas pedal and put Rodgers more at risk in blow out wins, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.

Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

The stats don't really agree with you here. Third quarter scoring by game:

Saints:    7Panthers: 16Bears: 	3Broncos:  14Falcons:   9Rams:      0Vikings:  20

That's 69 points, exactly 30% of their total scoring on the season.

Ok, let me use your stats against you. How many points do they score in the first half, compared to the 2nd half?

123-107

 

[Luke Skywalker]

It happens to every team who has a long period of relative dominance. You can't stay at that level forever. Either your play is going to fall off a little or the rest of the league is going to start catching up to you.

For recent examples see the 07 Patriots, 09 Saints.

 

[Reepicheep]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.

Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

The stats don't really agree with you here. Third quarter scoring by game:

Saints:    7Panthers: 16Bears: 	3Broncos:  14Falcons:   9Rams:      0Vikings:  20

That's 69 points, exactly 30% of their total scoring on the season.

Ok, let me use your stats against you. How many points do they score in the first half, compared to the 2nd half?

123-107

So on a per-game basis, the Packers are scoring 2.3 more points in the first half than they are in the second.

 

[jurrassic]

I think at times McCarthy does get complacent in his play calling.

This is not new to this year though.

Exactly. This has been a McCarthy issue the past couple of years, nothing to see here. Hell, we had the same issue with Holmgren for years too....

This is the answer. McCarthy goes into "preserve" mode once they have the lead. Just look at the NFC Championship game last year. Once Rodgers through the pick to Urlacher in the end zone and Hanne came in at qb, it was a "we will not beat ourselves" mentality. They sat back played it safe and dared the Bears to try and win with Hanne.I do however agree that in addition the defense is struggling. Though I think if they can find a away to get a consistent pass rush alot of it could be rectified

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Points given up:

1st quarter. 34

2nd quarter. 57

3rd quarter. 10

4th quarter 40



Points scored:

1st quarter. 52

2nd quarter. 71

3rd quarter. 69

4th quarter. 38



So the Packers have outscored their opponents 69-10 in the 3rd quarter this year. I'd say the coaches on both offense and defense are making pretty good adjustments at halftime.



The only quarter where they trail the opponents is the 4th (38-40), and that is largely due to shutting it down in 3 of the last 4 games. They led going into the 4th quarter in those games, 42-21, 24-3 and 33-17. Now if you think the Packers should keep the foot on the gas pedal and put Rodgers more at risk in blow out wins, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

Would like to see Rodgers attempts-completions on a per quarter basis for each game. Yards too would be good, if anybody can help out.

 

[sho nuff]

Points given up:

1st quarter. 34

2nd quarter. 57

3rd quarter. 10

4th quarter 40



Points scored:

1st quarter. 52

2nd quarter. 71

3rd quarter. 69

4th quarter. 38



So the Packers have outscored their opponents 69-10 in the 3rd quarter this year. I'd say the coaches on both offense and defense are making pretty good adjustments at halftime.



The only quarter where they trail the opponents is the 4th (38-40), and that is largely due to shutting it down in 3 of the last 4 games. They led going into the 4th quarter in those games, 42-21, 24-3 and 33-17. Now if you think the Packers should keep the foot on the gas pedal and put Rodgers more at risk in blow out wins, I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[scott72]

Interesting point. In a way, the Packers in that sense remind me of the 2000 Rams who also came off a Super Bowl win by going on a tear to open up the next season. And like the Rams, the ridiculous proficiency of the offense is masking the huge drop-off by the defense. That is bound to get them at one point or another. At some point, a team will figure out how to slow the Packers offense down a bit (it happens to ALL teams), and if the Packers defense continues to struggle, the team as a whole will suffer. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Seems like the Packers D always starts the year slow, but by late November and into December they really start to turn it on. They're getting turnovers so that's good. I'm not worried at all. Hopefully Neal can contribute this year because if Pickett or Wynn were to go down we'd be in trouble. As far as the offense, no worries at all.

 

[scott72]

The concern is that they're struggling coming out of the 2nd half, offensively, which suggests either they're getting outcoached in halftime adjustments by the opposing defense, or the Pack is not taking halftime adjustments very seriously, thus it's an overconfidence issue.Nonetheless, it's only a matter of time until they lose. And they are not a superbowl repeat contender unless they can find a way to slow down even bad teams, let alone good teams. The defense is getting owned. There's no excuse for that.

Seriously? 2 weeks ago they adjusted beautifully in the 2nd half against Atlanta, but one game against a good rookie QB (and Shields being out) and they can't adjust anymore. They need a killer instinct but it's one ####### game against a new QB no one has really seen before.

Came out in the 3rd quarter this week and went TD, TD, FG, FG.Not sure what games ol Favre boy watched the last few weeks.

I didn't say they get shut down in the 2nd half. They score at will in the first half, but in the 2nd halfs of games, they do not. It wouldn't be an issue if their defense was worth a damn, but since it's not, they need to continue to score at will. There's no excuse to have been shut down in the passing game against St. Louis last week in the 2nd half, and then, to a lesser extent, against a Minnesota pass defense starting backups at all positions.

Not sure why you're complaining. All teams slow it down at some point when they get up a certain amount. You try to establish the run and work some clock. Why sling it around the whole game and risk injury to your QB when he drops back or your WR's when you don't need to?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Today should be very telling. Floor it for 60 minutes Pack.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Lots of Packers posts in here by Packers fans but as a non fan I'll say that it seems like they are toying with teams. I wrote the recap on them the last two weeks and it seems like they are playing right now to test themselves for the playoffs. They all but locked up the division today and if SF were to lose tonight which I think they will then you can see them going in as the #1 seed.

The point is when hey run Raji in for the score they simply want to see if they can use that as part of the battle plan for the playoffs. We are in the midst of a dynasty IMO, the packers are likely going to be the first team to win back to back Super Bowls since New England and they have a lot of their talent locked up for the next couple seasons. Pretty exciting time in Green Bay for the team and the fans.

 

[sho nuff]

Lots of Packers posts in here by Packers fans but as a non fan I'll say that it seems like they are toying with teams. I wrote the recap on them the last two weeks and it seems like they are playing right now to test themselves for the playoffs. They all but locked up the division today and if SF were to lose tonight which I think they will then you can see them going in as the #1 seed. The point is when hey run Raji in for the score they simply want to see if they can use that as part of the battle plan for the playoffs. We are in the midst of a dynasty IMO, the packers are likely going to be the first team to win back to back Super Bowls since New England and they have a lot of their talent locked up for the next couple seasons. Pretty exciting time in Green Bay for the team and the fans.

They have been using Raji as a blocker from time to time. I think giving it to him was to get it on tape and make people think about it to set up play action and other things later.

 

[The Kerminator]

Lots of Packers posts in here by Packers fans but as a non fan I'll say that it seems like they are toying with teams. I wrote the recap on them the last two weeks and it seems like they are playing right now to test themselves for the playoffs. They all but locked up the division today and if SF were to lose tonight which I think they will then you can see them going in as the #1 seed. The point is when hey run Raji in for the score they simply want to see if they can use that as part of the battle plan for the playoffs. We are in the midst of a dynasty IMO, the packers are likely going to be the first team to win back to back Super Bowls since New England and they have a lot of their talent locked up for the next couple seasons. Pretty exciting time in Green Bay for the team and the fans.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are toying with teams but I do think that late in games with a comfortable lead they are putting plays on tape for other teams to think about.

 

[Koya]

As good as this Packers team is, I am not sure they are an all time great team, even with their record - but what other really good teams are there? Seems to be a lot of mediocrity with one very good team, the Packers.

With that in mind, I could certainly see the Packers get picked off in the playoffs with confluence of perhaps a little weather, some luck that doesnt go their way, and a team with a very good defense. In fact, the 49ers could be that team imo.

IMO, this Packers team is not close to being as good as the nearly undefeated Patriots, and even they couldnt close the deal.

 

[griff321]

As good as this Packers team is, I am not sure they are an all time great team, even with their record - but what other really good teams are there? Seems to be a lot of mediocrity with one very good team, the Packers.

With that in mind, I could certainly see the Packers get picked off in the playoffs with confluence of perhaps a little weather, some luck that doesnt go their way, and a team with a very good defense. In fact, the 49ers could be that team imo.

IMO, this Packers team is not close to being as good as the nearly undefeated Patriots, and even they couldnt close the deal.

That's not even true for a second. That team never won a superbowl like this team did last year. Peddle crazy elsewhere, 'cause we're all full up here. Packers don't run up the score nearly as badly as the Pats do.

 

[smackdaddies]

As good as this Packers team is, I am not sure they are an all time great team, even with their record - but what other really good teams are there? Seems to be a lot of mediocrity with one very good team, the Packers.

With that in mind, I could certainly see the Packers get picked off in the playoffs with confluence of perhaps a little weather, some luck that doesnt go their way, and a team with a very good defense. In fact, the 49ers could be that team imo.

IMO, this Packers team is not close to being as good as the nearly undefeated Patriots, and even they couldnt close the deal.

have to agree with the boldedBut since with both agree the NFL sucks, who is going to beat the combo of Rodgers/Jennings/Finley/Nelson/Jones/Cobb/Driver/Kuhn/etc plus the packers secondary?

San Fran and their joke of a qb? Packers secondary will eat Mr. Smith alive.

 

[griff321]

As good as this Packers team is, I am not sure they are an all time great team, even with their record - but what other really good teams are there? Seems to be a lot of mediocrity with one very good team, the Packers.

With that in mind, I could certainly see the Packers get picked off in the playoffs with confluence of perhaps a little weather, some luck that doesnt go their way, and a team with a very good defense. In fact, the 49ers could be that team imo.

IMO, this Packers team is not close to being as good as the nearly undefeated Patriots, and even they couldnt close the deal.

have to agree with the boldedBut since with both agree the NFL sucks, who is going to beat the combo of Rodgers/Jennings/Finley/Nelson/Jones/Cobb/Driver/Kuhn/etc plus the packers secondary?

San Fran and their joke of a qb? Packers secondary will eat Mr. Smith alive.

I don't think that the SF D can keep up with Rodgers either. You don't need a run game the way refs protect WRs and QBs.

If they drop everyone into coverage Rodgers is athletic enough to provide all the run game needed.

 

[Dentist]

You don't need a run game the way refs protect WRs and QBs.

This is what hacks me off.This is ruining football... seriously.Marino's record is going to get broken and he has to be sitting at home thinking that he was born to play in the wrong era.How many yards would he throw for in today's NFL, 10,000?

 

[smackdaddies]

As good as this Packers team is, I am not sure they are an all time great team, even with their record - but what other really good teams are there? Seems to be a lot of mediocrity with one very good team, the Packers. With that in mind, I could certainly see the Packers get picked off in the playoffs with confluence of perhaps a little weather, some luck that doesnt go their way, and a team with a very good defense. In fact, the 49ers could be that team imo.IMO, this Packers team is not close to being as good as the nearly undefeated Patriots, and even they couldnt close the deal.

Well, San Fran proved the ability last night.