What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

HBO Series "The Night Of" (1 Viewer)

Yankee23Fan said:
Perhaps, but I'm still in the camp that he did it.  So in that, him "turning" might not be a turn at all.  He's smart as hell, has a past that is getting pealed back slowly and if you want to say that he was too wuick to be a brute in prison then you can also say he had it in him already and it was part of the plan.  Of course, just wild speculation on my part.

But I'm still leaning towads he did it but has this entire persona that makes him look innocent, Stone sacrifices himself for him thinking he was innocent to the end and in the final scenes we find out that not only was he guilty but he might just be a long time bad guy.
Click to expand...
This is starting to make sense to me, mostly because it's the only reasonable explanation for why he left the refrigerator door open after he woke up in the kitchen. A conscientious person would have closed it as he walked by, but Naz may have been a very dark, nasty, refrigerator-not-caring thug the entire time.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Perhaps, but I'm still in the camp that he did it.  So in that, him "turning" might not be a turn at all.  He's smart as hell, has a past that is getting pealed back slowly and if you want to say that he was too wuick to be a brute in prison then you can also say he had it in him already and it was part of the plan.  Of course, just wild speculation on my part.

But I'm still leaning towads he did it but has this entire persona that makes him look innocent, Stone sacrifices himself for him thinking he was innocent to the end and in the final scenes we find out that not only was he guilty but he might just be a long time bad guy.
Click to expand...
Remember that Naz's mother found several condoms in his backpack while rummaging through his room. They certainly tried to portray him as seemingly a virgin up until the night of...

 
Yankee23Fan said:
It's had to.  The average length of time to get to trial in New York for capital murder is years and while it's clearly not been years, it's had to have been at least several months.
Click to expand...
Right.  I didn't enjoy last night's episode as much as the others because there were some pretty glaring continuity issues.  Again, I hold this show in relative high regard because it seems to be trying to be somewhat realistic.  As such, I'd point out the following: 

1. Yeah they've had an IA, an Arraignment, multiple meetings with the officers and prosecutors, a change of counsel, another quasi-change of counsel, a change of plea hearing (talking about least 14-30 days just to get one of those set), they've visited the scene, etc.  As somebody who has worked and is working murder cases, these events would take several months.  If we're to believe it's been 10ish or so days since Stone got the cat, that's just impossible.  

2.  Nit-picky, but it bothers me that they keep putting him in "DOC" garb.  Unless NY is different and I'm just not aware of it ("My Cousin Vinnie" -- the most accurate legal movie/show of all time -- explained it well as to why they went to DOC), the "Department of Corrections" is where convicted felons sentenced to prison are housed.  Nas hasn't been convicted and would most likely be awaiting trial/disposition in a higher security pod at the local jail.  The irony is that many defendants actually prefer prison to jail (more freedoms, less stress/tension from people awaiting trial who aren't familiar with the unwritten rules of incarceration, etc.), but, again, Nas wouldn't be in prison and his jail jumpsuit should have something like, "pre-sentence" written on the back.  

3. The Stone character is getting ridiculously unrealistic.  While I absolutely appreciated his demure jail visit, night court, and early morning court from episode one, his character is turning into one that should be found on Law and Order: SVU for several reasons.  First, he has no office and, apparently, no other real cases.  For a guy who apparently can afford multiple advertisements in a big city (for comparison lower level magazine ads in Phoenix run around 60k/year), there's simply no way he'd be afloat without a significant number of other clients and only making the 50k or whatever the female attorney said he made (I also have no idea how she'd know that). While the 60% actual collection rate for his business model is actually realistic, really nothing else about the business side of his practice is.  He'd likely have an office (at least a virtual office to meet with clients) and probably one staff member.  Second, I've not seen him draft a single pleading, check a single email, or return one damn phone call.  That's like half the job.  Third, his character makes it seem like it's the norm for defense attorneys to actively investigate and interview witnesses.  While there may be some exceptions, this just isn't the case. The reason it's not the case, and it has nothing to do with laziness or an unwillingness to investigate, is that lawyers cannot testify at trial.  So, investigators are needed to do these types of things so that they can testify to things observed and discovered while investigating the case and provide for much cleaner impeachment (i.e. bringing out an otherwise inadmissible hearsay statement that's a prior statement of a witness that directly contradicts the proffered testimony of a witness at trial). In short, I think I can speak for the majority of defense attorneys when I say that I've never run down a witness nor do I ever plan to (although I have been chased by a victim and his buddies in an alley once). 

I did appreciate a couple of the scenes, though.  Stone's comments and reaction to Nas hiding the drugs are likely how I think most defense attorneys would have handled that situation.  I also liked Nas shaving his head, because, for some reason, an oddly high rate of defendants seem to do this against advice of counsel.  Finally, I think the way the show got Stone back on the case was about as realistic as that whole unlikely scenario would be. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Zow said:
Second, I've not seen him draft a single pleading, check a single email, or return one damn phone call.  That's like half the job.  
Click to expand...
Meh, it's a tv show.

I do think he has someone working for him though, right? I think I recall someone younger in a prior episode.

 
Zow said:
Third, his character makes it seem like it's the norm for defense attorneys to actively investigate and interview witnesses.  While there may be some exceptions, this just isn't the case. The reason it's not the case, and it has nothing to do with laziness or an unwillingness to investigate, is that lawyers cannot testify at trial.
Click to expand...
This makes total sense. But I have a question - what would someone in Nas' position do then? Would he ie his lawyer hire a PI? And how much would that cost?

 
Yankee23Fan said:
It's had to.  The average length of time to get to trial in New York for capital murder is years and while it's clearly not been years, it's had to have been at least several months.
Click to expand...
Based on the timeline of how long Stone had to get the cat before they euthanized it (I think a week or 10 days), I think the time that has passed has only been 1-2 weeks....which is why it seems dumb that after a couple days of pushups and bicep curls Nas is now bullying real criminals in Rikers.

 
The DA said we need to fast track this case.  Yes, the time frame of the trial is unlikely but at least they made an attempt to try to explain.

 
My guess is that Nas gets acquitted of the murder charge but does time for the grand theft auto when he took the taxi without permission.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
Remember that Naz's mother found several condoms in his backpack while rummaging through his room. They certainly tried to portray him as seemingly a virgin up until the night of...
Click to expand...
He said in episode 1 that Andrea was only the 2nd girl he's ever slept with

 
I might have been incorrect in saying episode 1, it may have been episode2 but when he's talking to Box he says, "She was only the 2nd girl I ever slept with, I liked her." So clearly he was not a virgin.

 
You can't really expect a TV show/series to portray most professions realistically especially when it comes to the mundane crap.

"Breaking Bad was OK but I wish they would have shown more of Walt grading papers, going to staff meetings, creating lesson plans, and making copies."

 
In one scene Turturro is in his apartment messing with this feet.  The next he's at court.  I don't even know how he got there.  I really hate when they skip over that stuff.

 
Daywalker said:
If this show didn't have the HBO umbrella no one would be talking about it.  Show is embarrassingly bad.
Click to expand...
The show has definitely dragged after the first episode.   If this wasn't on HBO, I think this topic would be about 2 pages deep.  

 
Daywalker said:
Daywalker said:
Naz, Turturro then Turturro's feet would probably be top 3 for screen time.

We even got treated to a scene with a support group for skin diseases.  Every Turturro scene involves his jacked up feet.  This is insane.
Click to expand...
If this show didn't have the HBO umbrella no one would be talking about it.  Show is embarrassingly bad.
Click to expand...
Says the guy who just quoted himself, and also thinks the NBA playoffs are filled with drama.  :rolleyes:

 
I like that I'm indifferent about this show. I didn't care when I get to it during the week. Fate of the characters aren't a concern to me. Plot holes and clichés just give me a chuckle. No stress. It's the most relaxing murder drama ever. 

And I can't believe no one is busting on what may be one of the worst lines in any prison scene ever: "You're like a care package for my brain!"  :lol:

 
Sconch said:
You can't really expect a TV show/series to portray most professions realistically especially when it comes to the mundane crap.

"Breaking Bad was OK but I wish they would have shown more of Walt grading papers, going to staff meetings, creating lesson plans, and making copies."
Click to expand...
Distinguishable.  BB was about a chemistry teacher not doing his job and, instead, doing something crazy.  

The Night Of is actually about Stone doing his actual job and the production of the show seems to suggest they're trying to portray it realistically. 

 
Re: timeline...after a rewatch, it's been exactly a month. Surveillance cameras as Box retraced Naz's night show the murder taking place 10/24. Box then was standing in the street visiting where Naz picked her up in the East Village, and those cameras showed him standing there on 11/24.

 
None of that stuff is very far fetched imo.  Kids been in a crisis situation for a month straight now.  Of course he is gonna try and fit in and survive.  

The big question is, what is the deal with the hearse driver.  The second street guy that ran from the lawyer last week was obviously a "red herring?".  The step father did it because he had the motive imo.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hallelujah his ####### feet are healed. And awaiting the growth of his second head due to the mystery Chinese powder. 

 
I'll wait to see where this ends up going, but it feels like they have half-assed a good concept.

Random thoughts:

  • Looks like we have 3 viable alternate suspects:  Hearse Driver, hates women, followed them out of gas station; Big Scary black dude, has priors for burglary and attacking women, witness can place in the neighborhood; Step-dad, looks to gain financially from her death.  Its probably none of them.
  • Not to go all Woz, but it seems highly unlikely that we get to a jury trial on a murder case inside of a couple of months.
  • It seems odd that Naz has become everything he seemingly wanted to be inside of prison - popular, powerful, respected, when he appeared to be meek, mild and good kid just a couple of months before.  Even Omar asked if his life was better on the inside, than on the outside.  That just seems a bit off, to me, particularly when you add the timing.
  • I am disappointed that the "cost" of Omar's protection seems to be virtually nothing - poop out a few 8-balls, seems like a small price to pay from going from prison target, to prison bad guy with cell phones.
  • It is crazy that the defense is still investigating, and seemingly has no trial strategy - other than "he did not do it"
  • I like how Stone goes to a different doctor every week - I am waiting to see if his #### falls off with the chinese remedy - because it seems highly unlikely that it is the cure...


With two episodes left, and the trial already started, it feels like Naz is going to be convicted next episode, and then somehow exonerated in the final episode.  I can't imagine the trial lasting beyond next episode, given how quickly its moving, and how all the evidence points to Naz.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I'll wait to see where this ends up going, but it feels like they have half-assed a good concept.

Random thoughts:

  • Looks like we have 3 viable alternate suspects:  Hearse Driver, hates women, followed them out of gas station; Big Scary black dude, has priors for burglary and attacking women, witness can place in the neighborhood; Step-dad, looks to gain financially from her death.  Its probably none of them.
  • Not to go all Woz, but it seems highly unlikely that we get to a jury trial on a murder case inside of a couple of months.
  • It seems odd that Naz has become everything he seemingly wanted to be inside of prison - popular, powerful, respected, when he appeared to be meek, mild and good kid just a couple of months before.  Even Omar asked if his life was better on the inside, than on the outside.  That just seems a bit off, to me, particularly when you add the timing.
  • I am disappointed that the "cost" of Omar's protection seems to be virtually nothing - poop out a few 8-balls, seems like a small price to pay from going from prison target, to prison bad guy with cell phones.
  • It is crazy that the defense is still investigating, and seemingly has no trial strategy - other than "he did not do it"
  • I like how Stone goes to a different doctor every week - I am waiting to see if his #### falls off with the chinese remedy - because it seems highly unlikely that it is the cure...


With two episodes left, and the trial already started, it feels like Naz is going to be convicted next episode, and then somehow exonerated in the final episode.  I can't imagine the trial lasting beyond next episode, given how quickly its moving, and how all the evidence points to Naz.
Click to expand...
I think this is a slow play on Omar's part. No downside for him IMO in the long run.

If Naz is released, Omar's reach seems pretty long. Omar could be on Naz's payroll for a long time for protecting him while inside, at the risk of Omar's presumed soldiers threatening his life/freedom and his families once on the outside.

If Naz is convicted, he's in Omar's pocket for life, and this is the honeymoon period. He's got Naz freebasing at this point, I see that playing out as getting Naz addicted to drugs and having 0 inhibitions about being a mule with nothing to lose and an addiction on top of it.

 
mquinnjr said:
I think this is a slow play on Omar's part. No downside for him IMO in the long run.

If Naz is released, Omar's reach seems pretty long. Omar could be on Naz's payroll for a long time for protecting him while inside, at the risk of Omar's presumed soldiers threatening his life/freedom and his families once on the outside.

If Naz is convicted, he's in Omar's pocket for life, and this is the honeymoon period. He's got Naz freebasing at this point, I see that playing out as getting Naz addicted to drugs and having 0 inhibitions about being a mule with nothing to lose and an addiction on top of it.
Click to expand...
I can see that - but once he is convicted, he is leaving Rikers.  Maybe Omar runs more than just Rikers. :shrug:

Setting Naz up for life outside of prison seems more plausible at this point.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I can see that - but once he is convicted, he is leaving Rikers.  Maybe Omar runs more than just Rikers. :shrug:

Setting Naz up for life outside of prison seems more plausible at this point.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Omar having a long reach within and outside of the prison system is my assumption for saying all of that. Kind of guy who reels Naz in and owns him via tentacles touching places you can't even anticipate. 

 
My struggle is in understanding why so much of what we saw here was the focus of Episode 6, while a trial is already underway, than maybe episode 3 or 4. 

 
I think there will be a big "wow" moment coming about Naz's past when Box looks into the Facebook posts.

The question will be, will he sit on any evidence or personal history that looks like it exonerates Naz.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I'll wait to see where this ends up going, but it feels like they have half-assed a good concept.
Click to expand...
Watched all six of these yesterday.. this is about right.  Still pretty enjoyable.  No TD1 but it surpasses TD2, which I watched all of just to see how it ended up too

Continuity (the knuckle tats seem to appear only sometimes after he gets them - I'm sure this has been pointed out in here) and :rolleyes: all over the place.  And that wolf tattoo.. wtf? :lmao:    

The prison #### flat out needs a rewrite.  I could see the argument that he wants to show the world he's a bad ### now.. and/or that he's half settling for prison because of the respect he's getting with the brothers there.. but it's ham handed

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JZilla said:
Watched all six of these yesterday.. this is about right.  Still pretty enjoyable.  No TD1 but it surpasses TD2, which I watched all of just to see how it ended up too

Continuity (the knuckle tats seem to appear only sometimes after he gets them - I'm sure this has been pointed out in here) and :rolleyes: all over the place.  And that wolf tattoo.. wtf? :lmao:    The prison #### flat out needs a rewrite.  
Click to expand...
I couldn't tell if it was a wolf or a seal or some kind of hybrid. My wife and I were debating if Sulf or Weal was the better name.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This episode was really hard.  The acting is really good and the drama of the whole thing is being done very well.  I'm still enjoying it and it is very good television.

But now that we've gotten this far, the complaints about them wasting time on Stone's feet and some other things make this a really big problem.  The most fascinating small part of these series was Stone doing the investigation into the victim and then the crime scene expert at the house.  The "how do you create a defense" aspect of this show was really well done, but now that they only have 2 episodes left and the trial has started, it is really really bad form and bad writing to have Stone finally think about who owns the house; the other attorney going to talk to the limo driver, and so on.

That should have happened well before the trial.  And it isn't like those two specific things are the work of only high priced expert lawyers who have litigated for decades.  It's law 101.  The first thing I do in any case of kind is check to see where my adversary lives and who owns the house.  I do it almost always during the initial intake of the client.  It's just a muscle reaction at this point.  And in a criminal setting it should be even more important.

That really hurt the show for me.  And with that I continue to not like any aspect of the jail part of this story.  It's not bad in the sense that it's stupid - I'm ok with his quick change into a gang member as it fits the narrative of good people ending up in prison.  I'm ok with the artistic license there.  But its just wasted to me when they should be focusing on the defense aspect of this.  Every jail scene could be 30 seconds long.  We all have an idea within a tv show as to what is going to go on in a prison like Rikers.  It's just not satisfying to watch in what this show was setting itself up to be. 

If I was giving this an A before last night, it's dropped to a B-.  The next episode better regroup because they had something really really good here.  Would hate to see them blow it.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
This episode was really hard.  The acting is really good and the drama of the whole thing is being done very well.  I'm still enjoying it and it is very good television.

But now that we've gotten this far, the complaints about them wasting time on Stone's feet and some other things make this a really big problem.  The most fascinating small part of these series was Stone doing the investigation into the victim and then the crime scene expert at the house.  The "how do you create a defense" aspect of this show was really well done, but now that they only have 2 episodes left and the trial has started, it is really really bad form and bad writing to have Stone finally think about who owns the house; the other attorney going to talk to the limo driver, and so on.

That should have happened well before the trial.  And it isn't like those two specific things are the work of only high priced expert lawyers who have litigated for decades.  It's law 101.  The first thing I do in any case of kind is check to see where my adversary lives and who owns the house.  I do it almost always during the initial intake of the client.  It's just a muscle reaction at this point.  And in a criminal setting it should be even more important.

That really hurt the show for me.  And with that I continue to not like any aspect of the jail part of this story.  It's not bad in the sense that it's stupid - I'm ok with his quick change into a gang member as it fits the narrative of good people ending up in prison.  I'm ok with the artistic license there.  But its just wasted to me when they should be focusing on the defense aspect of this.  Every jail scene could be 30 seconds long.  We all have an idea within a tv show as to what is going to go on in a prison like Rikers.  It's just not satisfying to watch in what this show was setting itself up to be. 

If I was giving this an A before last night, it's dropped to a B-.  The next episode better regroup because they had something really really good here.  Would hate to see them blow it.
Click to expand...
Maybe...just maybe...this is a TV show and the way the show is rolling along is how the writers intended for it to do so? Art doesn't have to exactly imitate life. Please don't try to force a "but if you were a lawyer you'd KNOW this show is not 100% on point" angle on all non-lawyers in the thread. Can we just enjoy this show for what it is, can we have that? Maybe the writers are shooting to entertain us and not appease all real-life attorneys.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
That should have happened well before the trial.  And it isn't like those two specific things are the work of only high priced expert lawyers who have litigated for decades.  It's law 101.  The first thing I do in any case of kind is check to see where my adversary lives and who owns the house.  I do it almost always during the initial intake of the client.  It's just a muscle reaction at this point.  And in a criminal setting it should be even more important.
Click to expand...
I know it was between the stepfather and Box, and not the defense, but this conversation had already sort of played out back in Episode 2 when he had to identify the body. Box asked him if he had a place to stay while they investigated the scene and he said he didn't live there and the house was hers. So it's been in all of our heads since then and they chose to wait until Episode 6 to move on it, and only in a more minor way where the defense is finally aware of it. Really strange. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Wingnut
Stephen Kings "The Outsider", a 10 episode HBO series coming January. Trailer just released
3 4 5
Replies
237
Views
11K
Tiger Fan
T
Pip's Invitation
The THIRD 100 from 1971. #1: Echoes
5 6 7
Replies
310
Views
19K
BobbyLayne
BobbyLayne
C
The History of Comedy on CNN
Replies
25
Views
1K
cockroach
C

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top