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HBO Series "The Night Of" (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter On The Rocks
- Start date
sartre
Footballguy
I think there are far more folks that overrate HBO offerings, than are overly critical of them.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Like what? Sopranos, The Wire, Deadwood, and Six Feet Under are 4 of the top 10 or so Dramas ever. Throw in Band of Brothers and Game of Thrones (withholding final grade until it's done) and you've got a high hit rate.
Capella
Footballguy
Skoo
Footballguy
The kissing was bad enough, but smuggling drugs in for your client? Seriously?
If they're going to have a seemingly smart character do such incredibly stupid things, it would probably be a good idea to give us SOME kind of reason for her doing so. In 8 episodes they had 967 scenes about eczema but couldn't give us even a single scene to develop this very deep relationship the lawyer and Naz apparently developed that would lead her to throwing her career away for him like it was nothing.
That along with the other unrealistic stuff just ruined the whole show for me. Hard to care about the story when it's simply not believable.
If they're going to have a seemingly smart character do such incredibly stupid things, it would probably be a good idea to give us SOME kind of reason for her doing so. In 8 episodes they had 967 scenes about eczema but couldn't give us even a single scene to develop this very deep relationship the lawyer and Naz apparently developed that would lead her to throwing her career away for him like it was nothing.
That along with the other unrealistic stuff just ruined the whole show for me. Hard to care about the story when it's simply not believable.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think the problem is too big of a subject for too little time. Bit off more than they could chew.
Overall great acting all around.
Overall great acting all around.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm pretty nonplussed by the ending though.
Something that ticks me off in any book, movie, play or tv show is when the makers involve the viewer for whatever X hours and then in the last phase they just throw in some new information. That's not very cool. It's manipulative and lazy from a writing standpoint.
So we spend 7-1/2 shows learning about the thug on the street and the stepfather and the hearse driver and Andrea's drug dealer and even Nas' own mixed history... and then at the very very end oh look it's the financial advisor. Never mind.
Writers do this when they get in a bind and some actually think it's just great, but they're hacks. This is the kind of thing a Box of cable tv melodramas would do.
Something that ticks me off in any book, movie, play or tv show is when the makers involve the viewer for whatever X hours and then in the last phase they just throw in some new information. That's not very cool. It's manipulative and lazy from a writing standpoint.
So we spend 7-1/2 shows learning about the thug on the street and the stepfather and the hearse driver and Andrea's drug dealer and even Nas' own mixed history... and then at the very very end oh look it's the financial advisor. Never mind.
Writers do this when they get in a bind and some actually think it's just great, but they're hacks. This is the kind of thing a Box of cable tv melodramas would do.
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bigmarc27
Footballguy
I don't care so much that it was misleading as I do that it's such poor investigative work. If there's a murder, wouldn't two of the first things you do is 1: take a look at who owns the property where the murder took place? and 2: check the bank account of the 22 year old girl who lived in a $10M house on her own? How does something like that go unchecked for the weeks/months since the incident? A quick call to Bank of America and "oh ####, this financial advisor whom we never interviewed or have heard of took $300k, maybe we should talk to him?"
its the laziness that bothers me.
NutterButter
Footballguy
I liked the show overall, but that finale was really lacking excitement.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Think Deadspin said it all well:
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-night-of-made-its-characters-morons-because-it-kind-1785891990
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-night-of-made-its-characters-morons-because-it-kind-1785891990
sartre
Footballguy
Precisely. HBO has earned their reputation for great programming. So now, the HBO label creates a positive bias. If this show was on another cable network, I think it would've been given far less rope.bigmarc27 said:
I disagreed with your post suggesting that most folks are more critical of HBO programming, because I think overall it's the opposite. Just look back on the first few pages of this thread.
Incidentally, saying something is overrated is not the same as saying it is bad. The last 2 seasons of GoT have been really good, and overrated at the same time.
sartre
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Blech.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That's right. The Chandra kissing/smuggling was a cheap plot device and so was the eczema, which again was designed as it turns out purely for the dramatic closing argument. There was Stone, looking like Aqualung, yeah Nas was surely sunk, right? Pfft I gave this show too much credit early. Again, great acting across the board, great atmospherics, great premise & direction, lousy screenwriting IMO.
The first episode was fantastic. I watched it three times.
The rest of the season failed to live up to it, but on the whole it was worthwhile. The acting was great. The dialogue was mostly very good. The plot was stupid at some points, but intriguing enough to hold interest.
If there's a season two, I'll watch...
The rest of the season failed to live up to it, but on the whole it was worthwhile. The acting was great. The dialogue was mostly very good. The plot was stupid at some points, but intriguing enough to hold interest.
If there's a season two, I'll watch...
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
BBC has a season 2...different crime. So I'd imagine there's a chance HBO goes there.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
They left the door wide open to do a 2nd season, going after the financial planner- even had the DA begging Box to come back.
I'll watch. Especially if Turturro comes back... on the condition that they lower the eczema quotient.
I'll watch. Especially if Turturro comes back... on the condition that they lower the eczema quotient.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I was going to weigh in, but Maurile pretty much took the words right out of my mouth, except I only watched each episode once. I have nothing further to add.
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
The show was far from perfect, as many people have pointed out here, but great acting carried it imo. I would definitely watch a season 2 if John Turturro is a main character again.
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Statorama
Footballguy
I sort of watched it (more listened to it) while doing other stuff. Here's some differences I remember
-UK version was only 1 stab wound. Made it believable that he could have killed and forgot.
-More black people in US version
-UK version had the Nas guy was found guilty and then later exonerated by CCTV footage. Seemed like a big twist, but I didn't recognize the guy.
-No eczima
I don't remember that happening but I watched less and less as it went on. 90% sure it didn't though. I think the drugs in jail over all was a little less prevalent.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
I enjoyed it 
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Yes there was. Just not 65% of the gd show.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
Solid show. I won't go out of my way to recommend it, but I didn't feel like I wasted my time.
The eczema didn't bother me so much, but the way they made Chandra into a dumb ### was ridiculous.
The eczema didn't bother me so much, but the way they made Chandra into a dumb ### was ridiculous.
Ned
Footballguy
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
You mean you won't watch, or can't see them doing it? Because I think they left an opening big enough to drive a truck through to bring back the same case, with the same characters. I'd still watch it, especially, if Turturro is back.I can't possibly see S2 being about going after the financial planner.
Major
Footballguy
I'd watch if they explore Chandra's descent into a full-time drug muleYou mean you won't watch, or can't see them doing it? Because I think they left an opening big enough to drive a truck through to bring back the same case, with the same characters. I'd still watch it, especially, if Turturro is back.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
They won't do it. First, they already announced it as a "limited series". Second, the whole show was about how the system is stacked against a criminal defendant. What are they going to do, try the financial planner, only to learn in the last episode that it was Naz all along? Third, they ran a second season in the UK, but it was a completely different case/trial with all new characters. I doubt they even try that - if it did not make a 3rd season in England, its probably because the 2nd season was not that great, and this season wasn't strong enough to suggest these writers can pull off another season.You mean you won't watch, or can't see them doing it? Because I think they left an opening big enough to drive a truck through to bring back the same case, with the same characters. I'd still watch it, especially, if Turturro is back.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Yeah, I see all of your points, and am not arguing that they should do a second season based on those characters. From the finale, though, they definitely telegraphed them keeping that option open. Agree about the writers not being strong enough to pull it off. The actors saved the show, absolutely.
I'd check out a 2nd season. It was decent enough.
JZilla
Footballguy
Series of drug exchange cunnilingususses. They already kissed to set it up.. would have worked perfectly and been more believable than any other plot twist in the last half of the series.
Major
Footballguy
RUSF18
Footballguy
I saw him in "Black Mass" a couple weeks ago. In that case, it was the disco dancing that gave him away.
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Penguin
Footballguy
Omar was there because he had another pending case. He was originally in a prison upstate after his conviction.
He had one of his boys on the outside drop another body on him so he got shipped back to Riker's pending trial, which is much closer for his family to travel to see him.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
The cinematography of this show was very well done. It was well thought out, planned, and executed which certainly added to the value of the show. If those who prefer Blue Bloods can appreciate anything about this show, it probably should be the cinematography.
I liked the last episode quite a bit, I thought it was well written and executed and the courtroom scenes were the best of all episodes. I think the one of the only thing about this whole presentation that really bothered me was the Kapour kiss and cooter smuggle which is far-fetched at best. Do you know lawyers? Do you know high-priced lawyers? Well if you do you know they are quite possibly the biggest pussssssies in the entire world (present company excluded...). I work with them all the time, they take chances on tie color and whether to get heated seats in their Jaguars. An Indian American female attorney working at a big firm on a huge case doing what she did, is about as likely as a Trump follower thinking a joke about the world being 6000 years old is funny. It wouldn't happen, it's just not possible. Also just tripping across cell phone records at the last minute for a cop that was locked in, seemed odd.
Otherwise the show was worth the time invested and whether or not you think he actually did it, left a lot open to interpretation. Seems to me that people who didn't like the show at all like a tidy ending, like they have in CSI Miami (and also some one liner zingers to boot!!!!!!). Not an Emmy winner or anything but all considered the acting was good, the story was good enough, and the cinematography was excellent.
I liked the last episode quite a bit, I thought it was well written and executed and the courtroom scenes were the best of all episodes. I think the one of the only thing about this whole presentation that really bothered me was the Kapour kiss and cooter smuggle which is far-fetched at best. Do you know lawyers? Do you know high-priced lawyers? Well if you do you know they are quite possibly the biggest pussssssies in the entire world (present company excluded...). I work with them all the time, they take chances on tie color and whether to get heated seats in their Jaguars. An Indian American female attorney working at a big firm on a huge case doing what she did, is about as likely as a Trump follower thinking a joke about the world being 6000 years old is funny. It wouldn't happen, it's just not possible. Also just tripping across cell phone records at the last minute for a cop that was locked in, seemed odd.
Otherwise the show was worth the time invested and whether or not you think he actually did it, left a lot open to interpretation. Seems to me that people who didn't like the show at all like a tidy ending, like they have in CSI Miami (and also some one liner zingers to boot!!!!!!). Not an Emmy winner or anything but all considered the acting was good, the story was good enough, and the cinematography was excellent.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Zow
Footballguy
I'm sure I'll get yelled at for answering, but:It would be nice if the lawyers popped back in here.
I would be happy with a happy ending at this point. I'm not in the mood for something this dystopian.
What I'd like to hear from the FBG lawyers is if the recently discovered miscues and alternative suspects (thug on the street, stepfather, funeral guy) would be enough to sew doubt in the minds of the jurors, especially after the opening argument by Chandra. Box is going to sound very confident and then Chandra & Stone can ask, well what about this? And this? How about this? He would be filled with
Otoh as has been mentioned Nas seems to be cruising to become a hooked fish by Freddy. He could stay in jail for the crimes he's doing there and he will be totally under the control of Freddy. Sick and twisted, like I said I'm in no mood but as the FBG lawyers have also pointed out the greatest likelihood is that he would have been isolated from all that in real life, or so it would be hoped.
1. Personally, if I'm approaching a trial with a "it could have been somebody else" defense, I better actually have something. I think it's bad strategy to say it could have been these three random other people -- I'd prefer to have one, consistent theory of defense (self-defense, this particular Joe did it, no physical/medical evidence, etc.). Heck, there's a decent chance that a judge probably would have precluded the defense from exploring these alternate theories with the lack of evidence that they had (more on this shortly). I'm not saying this is an incredibly bad strategy or implausible, but with the overwhelming evidence pointing towards Naz I'd have focused on a more defined theory of defense rather than the employ the throw a bunch of #### out there and see what sticks type defense.
Regarding the trial, I was pretty disappointed. In terms of reality, this was just slightly better than Law and Order:SVU and doesn't touch My Cousin Vinnie or A Few Good Men for realism. I actually liked the banal, dreary look of the trial (because trials really are somewhat dark and boring) and I liked the prosecutor's demeanor, but there were several huge roll eye moments. In particular:
2. The prosecutor's admittance of Naz's prior bad acts (knocking the kid down the stairway, selling drugs). Generally, a person's prior bad acts - whether there was a conviction or not - are not admissible in the state's case in chief because the prejudicial effect on the defendant (in other words, it's unfair to bring up a person;s past against him b/c the jury may want to convict him for his past crimes) far outweighs the relevance of evidence having a tendency to prove or disprove that the crime alleged has been committed. There are a few possible exceptions, such as if the prior bad acts suggest a modus operandi, the defendant alleges self-defense, or if the defendant brings his own character into issue in his defense (i.e. by calling others to say he has a good reputation in the community or, during his trial, he claims to have never broken the law or something).
3. The female defense attorney's blatant and serious ethical violations. I actually am aware of one prior instance of a female defense attorney engaging in sexual acts with her client, but, as others pointed out, this seemed forced, silly, and borderline offensive to female attorneys. I'm also aware of one prior incident of a defense attorney sneaking drugs into his client in custody, but it's just a ridiculous stretch to suggest an up and coming attorney in a firm would go to such lengths. This is even sillier, if being used as a plot device to have Stone do closing because…
4. In a co-counsel trial, generally each attorney will share duties. Local rules likely will restrict each attorney to doing the work for a particular witness, but it would be normal for one attorney to do opening and another to do closing. Watch the OJ trial, the gay marriage documentary on HBO, or even the "Making a Murderer" documentary for good examples of how the attorneys parse out the work. Here though, despite the female attorney's shortcomings (she missed a slew of objections and the ones she made weren't even actual objections) she apparently was going to do all of the work. So much so that Stone has time to hit the gym, go to the doctors, sleep in, and stare aimlessly at random points (if two lawyers are working a murder trial together, life stops during trial). Heck, I could have sworn there were parts of the trial he wasn't even wearing a tie. I get that he's supposed to be the low-level grinder, but give me a break.
5. The prosecutor, by not disclosing what her detective found regarding the financial advisor to the defense during the trial (or as soon as reasonably possible upon discovery), committed a HUGE ethical violation (specifically, a "Brady violation") by choosing to not disclose the evidence or, at the very least, notifying the judge of the evidence and having the judge review it to see if it had to be disclosed. Talking Duke Lacrosse level #### where she'd likely be disbarred. Seemed way out of character for her. But, whatever, because the likely reality is that a trial of this magnitude would have likely have not happened for a significant time period after arrest (easily no sooner than 6 months and likely a year or two away) and the detective would have closed this case out and moved on to the next several dozen.
6. Speaking of the judge, it's almost a certainty that no judge would have berated a jury like that for being deadlocked and, generally, judges are not supposed to ask the jury what the current "count" is or put any sort of pressure on them to continue. Especially in a murder trial where an appeal is sure to happen upon conviction. Heck, when the judge discovered the female defense attorney's ethical violation he would have probably been in a pretty difficult spot to not declare a mistrial right then because of the obvious appeal issues.
7. There were some minor strategical eye rolls too in terms of the lawyers' decisions on examinations. I strongly doubt the prosecutor doesn't question the random potential culprits (at the very least she should have objected to the majority of their testimonies as irrelevant), just like there's no way Naz's attorney doesn't do a re-direct to ask him to explain why he doesn't know if he killed her. But, I chalk that up to dramatic effect and time constraints.
There were several things about this show that I liked. I did like the impact of incarceration of Naz, even if they did beat us over the head with it and made him do some just incredibly stupid things (although defendants do shave their heads and get really terrible tattoos while in). I also really liked that there were some unknowns: Naz had a spotty past (normal), no discernible defense (normal), police focusing in on their first suspect (normal), etc. It was a good and entertaining show, kind of like Law and Order, but no way this sniffs the upper echelon of tv.
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