HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (5 Viewers)

[sn0mm1s]

Refresh my recollection - in the books Varys stayed in Westeros, but disappeared?

Yes, he remained behind. We don't see him again until the end of ADWD when he has Pycelle and Kevan killed.

Don't think we know where he went to be honest. Just that he disappeared.

I think we are pretty sure he stayed behind because he was using his little birds to keep tabs on the stability of the kingdom. The potential for stabilizing the kingdom was the reason why Pycelle and Kevan were killed. I think it is pretty safe to assume that he didn't go to Essos - especially not on the same boat as Tyrion.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I wonder if the show will attempt to connect the dots between Shae and Tywin. Varys could have been behind it, I suppose. That revelation could be a fun, show original scene.

Was there any long period of connection? I just always assumed (book wise) that she just moved from Tyrion to Tywin....that there wasn't a long con going on her behalf.....

The show makes that a bit more ambgious as I'm assuming Bronn didn't betray Tyion (so therefroe Shae would have had to have someone bring her back for the trial)....but even so.....

I think it is safe to assume that Varys told Tywin of Shae. Varys admitted that Tywin had ordered him to report on Tyrion *and* we know that Varys wasn't going to protect Shae if Cersei asked him about her (from a different conversation they had). Varys doesn't give info away but he doesn't seem to lie either if telling the truth isn't going to hurt him. That said, I thought (though not positive) that Cersei mentioned that Shae came around looking for jewelry and that is how she was found out in the books.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I don't think there was one TV viewer, book reader or no, that was wondering why Tyrion might want to kill Tywin. Come on.

Why do you think Tyrion originally went to Tywins quarters? Do you think he planned to kill him all along?

Tyrion killed tywins wife. Tywin threatened to kill the love of tyrions life, stole her, made her betray him by testifying against him in the cruellest way, then started sleeping with her. A lannister pays his debts, I suppose.

Tyrion knew none of this, but he clearly planned on killing tywin immediately on his escape. Then when he saw shae there, he realized that he had to kill the woman who had tried to have him killed, before killing, bullying and humiliating the man who had bullied, humiliated and tried to kill him. Another lannister repaying debts.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Why did he enter the room without a weapon? If I recall, he got the crossbow after killing Shae and was completely beside himself. I think that was the moment he decided to kill his dad.

this is how I read it too

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I don't think there was one TV viewer, book reader or no, that was wondering why Tyrion might want to kill Tywin. Come on.

Why do you think Tyrion originally went to Tywins quarters? Do you think he planned to kill him all along?

Tyrion killed tywins wife. Tywin threatened to kill the love of tyrions life, stole her, made her betray him by testifying against him in the cruellest way, then started sleeping with her. A lannister pays his debts, I suppose.

Tyrion knew none of this, but he clearly planned on killing tywin immediately on his escape. Then when he saw shae there, he realized that he had to kill the woman who had tried to have him killed, before killing, bullying and humiliating the man who had bullied, humiliated and tried to kill him. Another lannister repaying debts.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Why did he enter the room without a weapon? If I recall, he got the crossbow after killing Shae and was completely beside himself. I think that was the moment he decided to kill his dad.

this is how I read it too

Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

If this was the case, what was his plan after "confronting" daddy? Just waltz out? Give himself up? Makes no sense as Tywin would have had him locked up immediately.

5 mins prior, he thought he was going to die the next day. possible he had 0 clue what would happen when he went there, but it was worth the risk knowing. worst case he was back where he was 5 mins ago. best case he confronts dad and still gets out.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Of course Varys had just told him there were weapons in the room when he gave him inch-by-inch directions on how to get there, too.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I wonder if the show will attempt to connect the dots between Shae and Tywin. Varys could have been behind it, I suppose. That revelation could be a fun, show original scene.

Was there any long period of connection? I just always assumed (book wise) that she just moved from Tyrion to Tywin....that there wasn't a long con going on her behalf.....

The show makes that a bit more ambgious as I'm assuming Bronn didn't betray Tyion (so therefroe Shae would have had to have someone bring her back for the trial)....but even so.....

I think it is safe to assume that Varys told Tywin of Shae. Varys admitted that Tywin had ordered him to report on Tyrion *and* we know that Varys wasn't going to protect Shae if Cersei asked him about her (from a different conversation they had). Varys doesn't give info away but he doesn't seem to lie either if telling the truth isn't going to hurt him. That said, I thought (though not positive) that Cersei mentioned that Shae came around looking for jewelry and that is how she was found out in the books.

Yep the jewelry was the link

 

[Swing 51]

Of course Varys had just told him there were weapons in the room when he gave him inch-by-inch directions on how to get there, too.

IIRC a stool was placed by someone (read: Varys) directly underneath where the crossbow was hanging on the wall.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Of course Varys had just told him there were weapons in the room when he gave him inch-by-inch directions on how to get there, too.

IIRC a stool was placed by someone (read: Varys) directly underneath where the crossbow was hanging on the wall.

I don't think so. I am pretty sure that the crossbow was sitting on a table. Varys didn't know Tyrion would want to see his father - the only reason it happened was because Tyrion recognized the mosaic from Shae's description.

 

[parrot]

Of course Varys had just told him there were weapons in the room when he gave him inch-by-inch directions on how to get there, too.

IIRC a stool was placed by someone (read: Varys) directly underneath where the crossbow was hanging on the wall.

I don't think so. I am pretty sure that the crossbow was sitting on a table. Varys didn't know Tyrion would want to see his father - the only reason it happened was because Tyrion recognized the mosaic from Shae's description.

"Afterward he found Lord Tywin's dagger on the bedside table and shoved it
through his belt. A lion-headed mace, a poleaxe, and a crossbow had been hung
on the walls. The poleaxe would be clumsy to wield inside a castle, and the
mace was too high to reach, but a large wood-and-iron chest had been placed
against the wall directly under the crossbow. He climbed up, pulled down the
bow and a leather quiver packed with quarrels, jammed a foot into the stirrup,
and pushed down until the bowstring cocked. Then he slipped a bolt into the
notch."

There is a chest there, but I don't know that there's anything to suggest that it was placed there with the intent of allowing Tyrion to reach the crossbow, unless that is stated somewhere else.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

 

[sn0mm1s]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

1) Jaime forced Varys at swordpoint to free Tyrion. Jaime discussed his plans with no one. So, unless Varys was prescient, there is no way he would've known to place a chest there *before* Jaime got to him.

2) There is no way for Varys to know who would be in the room when Tyrion was released - or where they would be. If Varys wanted to arm Tyrion it would have made way more sense to give him something *before* having him enter the room (perhaps even following him up and giving him a weapon before he goes in).

3) There is no way for Varys to know that Tyrion would even recognize where he was. It wasn't like Tyrion had been in the secret tunnels before.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

actually, if he is part targ or part baratheon he'd still have some ability.

nevermind

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

1) Jaime forced Varys at swordpoint to free Tyrion. Jaime discussed his plans with no one. So, unless Varys was prescient, there is no way he would've known to place a chest there *before* Jaime got to him.

2) There is no way for Varys to know who would be in the room when Tyrion was released - or where they would be. If Varys wanted to arm Tyrion it would have made way more sense to give him something *before* having him enter the room (perhaps even following him up and giving him a weapon before he goes in).

3) There is no way for Varys to know that Tyrion would even recognize where he was. It wasn't like Tyrion had been in the secret tunnels before.

ya, this.

 

[Sabertooth]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

Lyanna was a Stark. Starks carry the warging, not Targs.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

isnt it the stark side that wargs? not the targ side. Jon has no targ features, his hair = baratheon, the seed is strong.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

1) Jaime forced Varys at swordpoint to free Tyrion. Jaime discussed his plans with no one. So, unless Varys was prescient, there is no way he would've known to place a chest there *before* Jaime got to him.

2) There is no way for Varys to know who would be in the room when Tyrion was released - or where they would be. If Varys wanted to arm Tyrion it would have made way more sense to give him something *before* having him enter the room (perhaps even following him up and giving him a weapon before he goes in).

3) There is no way for Varys to know that Tyrion would even recognize where he was. It wasn't like Tyrion had been in the secret tunnels before.

ya, this.

Uh, how is he supposed to do all the spelunking to get up into the room in the first place while carrying a crossbow and bolts? Seemed obvious to me Varys set things up for him to do what he did. There was no guarantee that Tyrion would do it of course, but I'm sure Varys would have just figured out some other way. The guy knows stuff happening 1/2 way around the world, you don't think he knows the sexing and pooping schedule of everyone in the castle he lives in/near?

 

[sn0mm1s]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

1) Jaime forced Varys at swordpoint to free Tyrion. Jaime discussed his plans with no one. So, unless Varys was prescient, there is no way he would've known to place a chest there *before* Jaime got to him.

2) There is no way for Varys to know who would be in the room when Tyrion was released - or where they would be. If Varys wanted to arm Tyrion it would have made way more sense to give him something *before* having him enter the room (perhaps even following him up and giving him a weapon before he goes in).

3) There is no way for Varys to know that Tyrion would even recognize where he was. It wasn't like Tyrion had been in the secret tunnels before.

ya, this.

Uh, how is he supposed to do all the spelunking to get up into the room in the first place while carrying a crossbow and bolts? Seemed obvious to me Varys set things up for him to do what he did. There was no guarantee that Tyrion would do it of course, but I'm sure Varys would have just figured out some other way. The guy knows stuff happening 1/2 way around the world, you don't think he knows the sexing and pooping schedule of everyone in the castle he lives in/near?

It would've made more sense to leave weapons in the tunnel outside the room - not expect Tyrion to evade detection and grab one off the wall.

Assuming Varys had the time/opportunity to move a chest under a crossbow - he had the time to just place a weapon in the secret tunnel (which would guarantee Tyrion getting it).

And again, Varys could've followed Tyrion carrying the weapon, or told Tyrion that there were weapons and where they were located. It makes no sense that Varys' grand plan was to hope that Tyrion would recognize tiles on a floor, get a xbow undetected, and kill Tywin before guards standing right outside the room were alerted.

Also, we know that Varys doesn't have a problem crawling through tunnels with a xbow - because he kills Kevan with one.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

Makes no sense as Robert and Ned have a conversation where Robert asks Ned to tell him who the mother is.

 

[EYLive]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

Lyanna was a Stark. Starks carry the warging, not Targs.

Would it be safe to say warg power is only available to northerners? We know wildlings have that ability.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

Makes no sense as Robert and Ned have a conversation where Robert asks Ned to tell him who the mother is.

im not saying its correct, Im saying its interesting. the book readers theories of lyanna/rhaegar is probably right but why doesnt Jon Snow have silver hair? is it pure targs only with silver hair?

 

[parrot]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

Makes no sense as Robert and Ned have a conversation where Robert asks Ned to tell him who the mother is.

Part of the theory is that Lyanna never told Robert she was pregnant before Rhaegar grabbed her, and Ned, wanting to protect Lyanna's memory, doesn't tell anyone either. I don't think it's right, but it's not a terrible theory.

 

[Stoneys]

interesting theory in the TV only thread than Jon Snow is Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Starks kid, instead of Rhaegars.

it falls flat, unless the show isn't going to allow John to warg (or have wolf dreams).

isnt it the stark side that wargs? not the targ side. Jon has no targ features, his hair = baratheon, the seed is strong.

No...his hair and facial features were Stark, like Arya...The other children, Rob,Sansa,Bran,Rickon were more Tully-like features.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

the thing about jon snows parents, isnt howland reed the only one who really knows? when does he show up? I know GRRM says he will at some point.

 

[FBG26]

the thing about jon snows parents, isnt howland reed the only one who really knows? when does he show up? I know GRRM says he will at some point.

Doesn't Ned at one point tell Robert that the mother's name was Wylla?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

the thing about jon snows parents, isnt howland reed the only one who really knows? when does he show up? I know GRRM says he will at some point.

Doesn't Ned at one point tell Robert that the mother's name was Wylla?

yes he does, but he seems to get choked up and stammer n stutter, who knows he probably really is the child of Ned and some bar wench he nailed during the war

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Yes, it's all coincidence that Varys -- who's so intent on destabilizing the realm that he later kills two men that appear to be competent at ruling it, and also knows Shae is with Tywin -- gives step by step instructions to Tyrion on how to get through the tunnels, informs him that there are weapons in the room, and there just happens to be a way for a midget to reach the crossbow.

No way to prove it either way, but this seems like classic GRRM to me.

lol

 

[massraider]

Gosh, I hope people in the TV thread don't read Gawker. Check out this headline:

Why No Lady Stoneheart, Game of Thrones?

 

[Sinn Fein]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

 

[Redwes25]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

 

[Sinn Fein]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

Have to imagine that story comes around again - Brienne probably takes jamie to see her, right?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

Have to imagine that story comes around again - Brienne probably takes jamie to see her, right?

Maybe. But the whole storyline is unneeded.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

 

[Sinn Fein]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

Have to imagine that story comes around again - Brienne probably takes jamie to see her, right?

Maybe. But the whole storyline is unneeded.

I don't know where its headed, or how it plays in the bigger story. Has to be a reason for her character to survive the Red Wedding imo.

 

[Gr00vus]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

At least the young griff part has septa lemore.

 

[Redwes25]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

 

[Sinn Fein]

I suppose they will not re-visit the gravedigger scene on the TV show - they have alluded to The Mountain living, I wonder if they will do anything similar for The Hound.

 

[Sinn Fein]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

 

[Redwes25]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

In the books at least there was some continuation of her story. If I remember correctly (and this is testing my memory of the books) Arya had a dream where she pulled the body of Catelyn out of the river and the story of the brotherhood without banners went on as they started hunting Frey's. The TV show basically has had the brotherhood folks disappear as we haven't seen them since the middle of season 3 after the Hound and Baric fight. By the time Brianne starts storming around the riverlands looking for the stark girls this story has already started moving forward and Catelyn is alive and hunting Freys. Seems to me bringing that all back now is out of place as Catelyn has been off screen for a long time and Brienne has been doing her wondering act for awhile without any mention of the brotherhood w/o banners. So given In the books, she had reappeared pretty quickly and that hasn't happened in the show my best guess is they cut it.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Interesting comment from the director of the last show:

Graves also suggested that The Hound will not be coming back after Arya left him to die on that hillside. “As far as The Hound, as I told the story … he’s gone. How is he going to survive that? The real point of it was that she walks away, it wasn’t that it’s left open ended.”

Now the director may not have insight into any larger story arcs, but it seems, at least as the show is concerned, that The Hound is dead.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Interesting comment from the director of the last show:

Graves also suggested that The Hound will not be coming back after Arya left him to die on that hillside. “As far as The Hound, as I told the story … he’s gone. How is he going to survive that? The real point of it was that she walks away, it wasn’t that it’s left open ended.”

Now the director may not have insight into any larger story arcs, but it seems, at least as the show is concerned, that The Hound is dead.

Doesn't really matter - The Hound is essentially dead in the books from that point as well. Unless the gravedigger decides to join the church army or whatever I think The Hound's storyline is more or less done.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Interesting comment from the director of the last show:

Graves also suggested that The Hound will not be coming back after Arya left him to die on that hillside. “As far as The Hound, as I told the story … he’s gone. How is he going to survive that? The real point of it was that she walks away, it wasn’t that it’s left open ended.”

Now the director may not have insight into any larger story arcs, but it seems, at least as the show is concerned, that The Hound is dead.

Doesn't really matter - The Hound is essentially dead in the books from that point as well. Unless the gravedigger decides to join the church army or whatever I think The Hound's storyline is more or less done.

I guess I was still hoping the Hound would get his vengeance on the Mountain.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Unless the gravedigger decides to join the church army or whatever I think The Hound's storyline is more or less done.

That would be damn interesting. The Hound as the church's champion against the Zombie Mountain. Doesn't seem very likely given the "into the sunset" tone of the chapter on the Quiet Isle, but you never know.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Interesting comment from the director of the last show:

Graves also suggested that The Hound will not be coming back after Arya left him to die on that hillside. “As far as The Hound, as I told the story … he’s gone. How is he going to survive that? The real point of it was that she walks away, it wasn’t that it’s left open ended.”

Now the director may not have insight into any larger story arcs, but it seems, at least as the show is concerned, that The Hound is dead.

Doesn't really matter - The Hound is essentially dead in the books from that point as well. Unless the gravedigger decides to join the church army or whatever I think The Hound's storyline is more or less done.

I guess I was still hoping the Hound would get his vengeance on the Mountain.

I just really liked his character in the show...same with Bron..I know theyre not relevant in the books but I liked them on the show.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

In the books at least there was some continuation of her story. If I remember correctly (and this is testing my memory of the books) Arya had a dream where she pulled the body of Catelyn out of the river and the story of the brotherhood without banners went on as they started hunting Frey's. The TV show basically has had the brotherhood folks disappear as we haven't seen them since the middle of season 3 after the Hound and Baric fight. By the time Brianne starts storming around the riverlands looking for the stark girls this story has already started moving forward and Catelyn is alive and hunting Freys. Seems to me bringing that all back now is out of place as Catelyn has been off screen for a long time and Brienne has been doing her wondering act for awhile without any mention of the brotherhood w/o banners. So given In the books, she had reappeared pretty quickly and that hasn't happened in the show my best guess is they cut it.

I'm also going off of memory...was it a dream for Arya where she saw this or one of Bran's or Jon's through their wolf?

 

[Redwes25]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

In the books at least there was some continuation of her story. If I remember correctly (and this is testing my memory of the books) Arya had a dream where she pulled the body of Catelyn out of the river and the story of the brotherhood without banners went on as they started hunting Frey's. The TV show basically has had the brotherhood folks disappear as we haven't seen them since the middle of season 3 after the Hound and Baric fight. By the time Brianne starts storming around the riverlands looking for the stark girls this story has already started moving forward and Catelyn is alive and hunting Freys. Seems to me bringing that all back now is out of place as Catelyn has been off screen for a long time and Brienne has been doing her wondering act for awhile without any mention of the brotherhood w/o banners. So given In the books, she had reappeared pretty quickly and that hasn't happened in the show my best guess is they cut it.

I'm also going off of memory...was it a dream for Arya where she saw this or one of Bran's or Jon's through their wolf?

According to this it was Arya's dream through her wolf who is still roaming the riverlands - http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_65

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

In the books at least there was some continuation of her story. If I remember correctly (and this is testing my memory of the books) Arya had a dream where she pulled the body of Catelyn out of the river and the story of the brotherhood without banners went on as they started hunting Frey's. The TV show basically has had the brotherhood folks disappear as we haven't seen them since the middle of season 3 after the Hound and Baric fight. By the time Brianne starts storming around the riverlands looking for the stark girls this story has already started moving forward and Catelyn is alive and hunting Freys. Seems to me bringing that all back now is out of place as Catelyn has been off screen for a long time and Brienne has been doing her wondering act for awhile without any mention of the brotherhood w/o banners. So given In the books, she had reappeared pretty quickly and that hasn't happened in the show my best guess is they cut it.

They had Mance disappear for a season

 

[Redwes25]

It would have been a great cliffhanger, and all the tv-only crowd would have been speculating about a zombie army marching on Kings Landing.

I would have no issue if they cut it entirely. It just isn't a part of the story that interests me and seems tangential to the the rest of the story.

they aren't cutting that, or the young griff stuff either

You have a direct line to thinking of the producers? They introduce her next season and it will seem out of place to TV only folks.

Though don't think they cut the young griff stuff as that seems a little more interesting/important

How so? They continue to play up that Brienne is trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn, so it seems destined to end with Brienne in front of Lady Stoneheart claiming that even though she has Jamie's sword, she is trying to find the girls. That story needs a natural conclusion - the #### kick was not it...

In the books at least there was some continuation of her story. If I remember correctly (and this is testing my memory of the books) Arya had a dream where she pulled the body of Catelyn out of the river and the story of the brotherhood without banners went on as they started hunting Frey's. The TV show basically has had the brotherhood folks disappear as we haven't seen them since the middle of season 3 after the Hound and Baric fight. By the time Brianne starts storming around the riverlands looking for the stark girls this story has already started moving forward and Catelyn is alive and hunting Freys. Seems to me bringing that all back now is out of place as Catelyn has been off screen for a long time and Brienne has been doing her wondering act for awhile without any mention of the brotherhood w/o banners. So given In the books, she had reappeared pretty quickly and that hasn't happened in the show my best guess is they cut it.

They had Mance disappear for a season

Yeah, but there was still talk of him and that Mance was moving towards the wall. My only point is that they would have some hint at Catelyn at this point if she were coming back. I might be wrong but my sense is they aren't adding it.

 

[Sinn Fein]

They had Mance disappear for a season

Yeah, but there was still talk of him and that Mance was moving towards the wall. My only point is that they would have some hint at Catelyn at this point if she were coming back. I might be wrong but my sense is they aren't adding it.

Really depends on where that story goes in the next book, no? Seems like a showdown between Zombie-Cat and Jamie is going to happen in short order. If that ends up having implications in the overall story, they can't simply ignore it.

I don't think any TV viewer is going to forget Cat, or that she was killed at the Red Wedding. For the TV viewer, this is still a story of Stark v. Lannister with a little Targaryen and White Walker thrown in on the side. TV viewer would relish the thought of Cat coming back - even if the Lannisters are a bit decimated themselves at this point.