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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

CletiusMaximus said:
There was some suspense during the battle, but only from the possibility it would not turn out the way everyone expected. There were moments I was thinking, maybe the good guys lose, Jon survives under a pile of dead bodies and escapes or is captured, and Ramsey survives into next season. As the battle started, I was thinking (as I'm sure many were), "I hope this doesn't go exactly as everyone expects, just like Stannis arriving at the wall in the nick of time." 

When Dany gave her patented "No, you're the one who is going to surrender" speech? That was almost comical. Still a great episode of course for the production value - will watch again.
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:yes:

Similar feeling with the Dracarys moment. It's becoming her to infinity and beyond.

 
Yeah, I thought the episode was predictable - but at this point in the series some of it *has* to be predictable. For Jon's lineage to matter, for The Wall to matter, I think it was a foregone conclusion that Jon would win. Same situation regarding Dany.

I don't think Rickon will die in the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa + Littlefinger become an item in the books (even with LF's prodding to marry Harry the Heir). Obviously, the show has cut all of that out.

 
sn0mm1s said:
Yeah, I thought the episode was predictable - but at this point in the series some of it *has* to be predictable. For Jon's lineage to matter, for The Wall to matter, I think it was a foregone conclusion that Jon would win. Same situation regarding Dany.

I don't think Rickon will die in the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa + Littlefinger become an item in the books (even with LF's prodding to marry Harry the Heir). Obviously, the show has cut all of that out.
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I think that's the problem I'm having with the show now that they've outpaced the books. They're just taking the straightest paths to hit the highlights Martin gave them about how things wind down. While I myself have complained about how parts of the last book and a half meandered at times, some of those side trips and tangents are entertaining even if they don't always lie in the direct streams of the main plot points. The show has basically dispensed with any of that (look what they did to Dorne for instance, and 4 Theon scenes this whole season have taken him from getting Sansa out of Winterfell, to showing up after his father gets killed/sister looses kingsmoot/they go on the lamb, whore house interlude in Volantis, coming to an agreement with Danaerys in Mereen), and seem like they're running the 2 minute drill to the end game now. When you streamline that much, there's not a whole lot of room for interesting variation.

 
Sometimes predictable is good.  The battle was awesome.  I don't care if there wasn't a random twist.  The episode was extremely satisfying in just about every way.  

 
Scoresman said:
Sometimes predictable is good.  The battle was awesome.  I don't care if there wasn't a random twist.  The episode was extremely satisfying in just about every way.  
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Maybe, but in 3 of the 4 major battles now, you have a 3rd force come in and rescue the losing side.  At Blackwater it was Loras and the Tyrells; at the Wall it was Stannis, and now at Winterfell it was the Knights of the Vale.  Only Hardhome was a battle where no help came to save the losing side.  (I suppose Stannis' attack on Winterfell also counts, but that barely registered it was over so quickly).

I realize that from a plot perspective, they needed Sansa to be indebted to Littlefinger, but really, this should have put them even for what Littlefinger put Sansa through by marrying her to Ramsey.  I'll also assume there is still some lingering trust issues between Jon and Sansa based on the scenes from next week, so that is why she held back from telling Snow about Littlefinger.

And, while Snow may have been a reluctant leader up to this point, he had always been an effective leader (at least until he got himself killed)  Seemed out of character for him to not only be unprepared, but then to throw away the battle plans when Rickon died.

 
KarmaPolice said:
How does the giant not have a huge ####in weapon too? At least uproot a tree and start swinging or something.  
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He could have grabbed a few of those dead guys on that wall and started throwing them like grenades. Would have been more effective than what he actually was doing.

 
Sabertooth said:
Nah.  He just wanted to save his little brother.  Do you have a brother?  I'd do everything I could to save my little brothers.  
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Yeah, I didn't think that worked narratively considering Sansa pretty much warned him.  If Jon doesn't rise to the bait, uses his superior strategy to hold out just long enough for the Knights of the Vale to show up, but hates himself for having made the choice, I think it's a more powerful scene. 

As Ian McKellen said, "it's t**s and dragons", so I'm not going to pick too hard at the plot, but you have to wonder how entire armies can so often muster without being detected in this universe.  Stannis came in ships, but the Tyrells and the Knights of the Vale had to march across Westeros.  In other contexts in this show someone sends a raven with each bowel movement. 

 
Biggest gripe with that fight scene was Wun Wun being cornered.  They show him hitting a castle gate hard enough to shatter it, yet he backhands a guy holding a shield and the guy barely moves?  WTF?  That move would've thrown him 40 feet backwards and crushed others along the way.  

Plus, you have a giant, basically the one trump card you have(since direwolves don't exist on the tv show).  You spend days having all your smithies work on thick armor for him and you basically make an indestructible weapon right?  I mean, imagine Wun Wun in armor like the Mountain's, only bigger and thicker.  What could you even do?

 
Gr00vus said:
:yes:

Similar feeling with the Dracarys moment. It's becoming her to infinity and beyond.
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I agree that it was a little too predictable and there was no HFS WTF moment that we've kind of gotten used to.   But that is her command to the dragon to spit fire. Can't complain about that.

 
encaitar said:
Biggest gripe with that fight scene was Wun Wun being cornered.  They show him hitting a castle gate hard enough to shatter it, yet he backhands a guy holding a shield and the guy barely moves?  WTF?  That move would've thrown him 40 feet backwards and crushed others along the way.  

Plus, you have a giant, basically the one trump card you have(since direwolves don't exist on the tv show).  You spend days having all your smithies work on thick armor for him and you basically make an indestructible weapon right?  I mean, imagine Wun Wun in armor like the Mountain's, only bigger and thicker.  What could you even do?
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Yeah, he could just roll towards the army.  Right up to the walls of winterfell and then just punch through the gate.  

 
cockroach said:
I agree that it was a little too predictable and there was no HFS WTF moment that we've kind of gotten used to.   But that is her command to the dragon to spit fire. Can't complain about that.
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Yeah it would have been much cooler is Syrio Forel emerged to deal the death blow to Jon Snow because he was really a faceless man and Ramsey paid the price.  

 
This is one of those episodes that's more enjoyable if you don't think too hard.

I still don't know why Davos hasn't been in a panic wondering what happened to Shireen til now. It's obviously been a pretty good amount of time since he's seen her.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
This is one of those episodes that's more enjoyable if you don't think too hard.

I still don't know why Davos hasn't been in a panic wondering what happened to Shireen til now. It's obviously been a pretty good amount of time since he's seen her.
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I took it as he assumed she died when the Red Witch wouldn't reply, just gave him a solemn look, but that she had died by Ramsey's forces.  He just now realized it was actually her that burned Shireen.

 
Sabertooth said:
Yeah it would have been much cooler is Syrio Forel emerged to deal the death blow to Jon Snow because he was really a faceless man and Ramsey paid the price.  
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come on now... if you haven't come to expect a big HFS moment where someone dies unexpectedly in ep9 you haven't been paying attention to this series. 

 
Yeah man. 

They totally should have made giant armor for Wun Wun, making him indestructible. 

Would have made the show better.  More realistic. 

 
I think the show is suffering from a lack of Martin's hand.  That being said...that episode was the ####.  Sure, there were some cliches (the Rickon running is stock, established shlock.....would have been much better if he were strapped to a cross and set afire or Ramsey just cut his throat at the beginning of the battle).....but that was intense. 

 
If I had to gripe about Jon's decision to go get Rickon....I do think it would have been more powerful if he left him there and didn't take the bait..  But that's not what Jon is. 

 
sn0mm1s said:
Yeah, I thought the episode was predictable - but at this point in the series some of it *has* to be predictable. For Jon's lineage to matter, for The Wall to matter, I think it was a foregone conclusion that Jon would win. Same situation regarding Dany.

I don't think Rickon will die in the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa + Littlefinger become an item in the books (even with LF's prodding to marry Harry the Heir). Obviously, the show has cut all of that out.
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I don't think they'll find Rickon in the books....just like I don't think they'll find Benjen.  I think the showrunners, realizing that tv viewers need to tie up loose ends, morphed these characters into the show's storyline.  I think Benjen won't be heard of again and it will be Stannis dying on the field at the beginning of the Battle of the Bastards (probably burnt on a cross).  

 
I thought the battle scene was very forced. The stuff in Mereen lacked context. The whole thing with Davos just didn't work. The dragons escaping through the back of their cave was so cliche. There were also no tittays

 
John Bender said:
I thought the battle scene was very forced. The stuff in Mereen lacked context. The whole thing with Davos just didn't work. The dragons escaping through the back of their cave was so cliche. There were also no tittays
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All these soldiers get hit with arrows,  and none hit Jon Snow?

 
massraider said:
All these soldiers get hit with arrows,  and none hit Jon Snow?
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I've thought things like that before about battle scenes in various movies.  I mean, you watch Saving Private Ryan and wonder, how does anyone survive that.  But, someone always survives the battles, and those are the lucky bastards (pun not intended) that don't get hit. Usually an important character.

 
John Bender said:
I thought the battle scene was very forced. The stuff in Mereen lacked context. The whole thing with Davos just didn't work. The dragons escaping through the back of their cave was so cliche. There were also no tittays
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I think Yara will be getting some Khaleesilingus pretty soon. 

 
massraider said:
How can they, with all these flaws?

Between Wun Wun's poor fighting skills, and what people expecting to happen actually happening,  I gotta tell you:  It was tough to get out of bed today. 
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Gotcha, so people have to enjoy every single aspect and scene of a series to enjoy the series. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Gotcha, so people have to enjoy every single aspect and scene of a series to enjoy the series. 
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It's still great t.v., that episode is better than anything else I'll see on t.v. for a while. It's just that the expectations were set even higher with the writing from the outset, so I think it's valid to make note of it.

 
Gr00vus said:
It's still great t.v., that episode is better than anything else I'll see on t.v. for a while. It's just that the expectations were set even higher with the writing from the outset, so I think it's valid to make note of it.
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That implies that the absurd nit-picking didn't happen early in the show. We know that's not true. 

I don't believe that the show is above criticism.  In a message board thread,  that's where flaws should be pointed out.  

And they are here.  Some real flaws,  some really silly little things that are meaningless,  and some dumb #### I cannot believe people think of. 

Every week,  5 min after show is over,  two people say that was great,  then the first, "Good episode, but I found the 3rd Unsullied guard from the left not believable."

 
massraider said:
That implies that the absurd nit-picking didn't happen early in the show. We know that's not true. 

I don't believe that the show is above criticism.  In a message board thread,  that's where flaws should be pointed out.  

And they are here.  Some real flaws,  some really silly little things that are meaningless,  and some dumb #### I cannot believe people think of. 

Every week,  5 min after show is over,  two people say that was great,  then the first, "Good episode, but I found the 3rd Unsullied guard from the left not believable."
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And?

I am sure it is the same way with a lot of people but my nit picking is directly related to how great or not great I think the episode or story is.  I had a few of those moments on Sunday, I won't lie - ie thinking to myself WTF the giant never has a damn weapon, but overall I thought the tension was great and what was going on was good enough to pull me in to the point where I didn't dwell on them as much.  Other episodes focus on stuff I have long lost interest in - ie Arya, and that is when the silly stuff is front and center for me.  If I wasn't enjoying what was on screen as a whole, I would stop watching (I learned my lesson from True Blood). 

 
I have read maybe 50% of these books

Most of you folks are the worst, most unappreciative people in the world

i hope you die a death under a few hundred dothtraki cocks

 
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