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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yikes. The book thread covers the TV show now without spoilers?
Not going to read any more, so apologies if it's been covered... but a not crazy fan theory based on possible bread crumbing from GRRM IDs 10/18 as a possible release date for TWOW. 40/60 to be right IMO, but I'll take it at this point.
Not going to read any more, so apologies if it's been covered... but a not crazy fan theory based on possible bread crumbing from GRRM IDs 10/18 as a possible release date for TWOW. 40/60 to be right IMO, but I'll take it at this point.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The books and the TV have always been separate stories. There's no way they can go down the same way. Sorry for the spoilers. But they may or may not be spoilers anyway.
Honest truth, I think we see maybe one more book, if that. A Dance with Dragons came out 6 years ago. And that one was 6 years after AFFC. He confirmed a couple months ago he was still working on Winds of Winter. So probably 2018 at the very earliest (I'd guess 2019). Let's face it. He's most likely not going to finish the book series.
He will be around 70 by the time Winds of Winter comes out. Do we really think he will accelerate at that point? I don't. So we are looking at him being probably 75-80 by the time he'd finish two more books. I don't see it.
Abrantes
Footballguy
IF TWOW comes out, you mean.
I'm completely fine with the series wrapping up the story for me, though, so I'm not even tripping. Loved season 6 and enjoyed the hell out of the season 7 opener. Shocked me how much I missed the show. Arya's scenes were money, and so were the Hound's. Dude gets the best lines and absolutely aces them. Cinematography was gorgeous too. Only thing that still bugs me is Emilia Clarke's lameness and that dumb look on her face.
Rick James
Footballguy
I'm becoming bitter about it. I do enjoy the show but the books are far and away better than anything you can put on screen. Even AFFC and ADWD are better than most of the HBO episodes.
parrot
Footballguy
In a recent 'not a blog' post he noted that there are currently 5 different pilots being developed that he is involved with to some extent or another. He did say he wouldn't be writing any episodes in the near future. - including for GOT - but all this TV stuff isn't helping the books get finished either
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This. All of it.IF TWOW comes out, you mean.
I'm completely fine with the series wrapping up the story for me, though, so I'm not even tripping. Loved season 6 and enjoyed the hell out of the season 7 opener. Shocked me how much I missed the show. Arya's scenes were money, and so were the Hound's. Dude gets the best lines and absolutely aces them. Cinematography was gorgeous too. Only thing that still bugs me is Emilia Clarke's lameness and that dumb look on her face.
parrot
Footballguy
At this point I would be fine with it if GRRM just quit pretending to write the books and devoted himself full-time to seeing that the series ends properly, even writing some episodes again. He's probably not finishing the books anyway.IF TWOW comes out, you mean.
I'm completely fine with the series wrapping up the story for me, though, so I'm not even tripping. Loved season 6 and enjoyed the hell out of the season 7 opener. Shocked me how much I missed the show. Arya's scenes were money, and so were the Hound's. Dude gets the best lines and absolutely aces them. Cinematography was gorgeous too. Only thing that still bugs me is Emilia Clarke's lameness and that dumb look on her face.
strykerpks
Footballguy
Yeah, he had a blog post with an illustration of dragons flying above what he called Valyria with a quote that is almost word for word for a Bible quote about the doom of Babylon that turns out to be Revelations 18:10. He disabled comments and posted his mood as "Enigmatic". Hence the possible 10/18 release date.
I've seen others speculate that's what one of the spin-offs is going to be about for October of next year.
I'll believe it when I see it.Yeah - I think he will see the series, and just figure he is not writing a book about something people already know the end to...lazy *******.
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Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Thanks for all the updates here, guys.
I really do love the HBO series, but I will be disappointed if we don't get at least one more book.
I was really grokking the Citadel and Oldtown finally getting some more light. Marwyn the Mage is a guy I really wanted to learn more about. I accidentally broached the issue in the TV only thread, as I mentioned that I wised the Jim Broadbent character is Marwyn.
1) He is the only one who has believed Sam IRT the white walkers = Marwyn-esque
2) Marwyn is really the only somewhat major character of the Citadel that I believe would deserve a Broadbent type actor.
Of course, like so many other things that just can't be fleshed out on TV, perhaps this is a pipe-dream.
I really do love the HBO series, but I will be disappointed if we don't get at least one more book.
I was really grokking the Citadel and Oldtown finally getting some more light. Marwyn the Mage is a guy I really wanted to learn more about. I accidentally broached the issue in the TV only thread, as I mentioned that I wised the Jim Broadbent character is Marwyn.
1) He is the only one who has believed Sam IRT the white walkers = Marwyn-esque
2) Marwyn is really the only somewhat major character of the Citadel that I believe would deserve a Broadbent type actor.
Of course, like so many other things that just can't be fleshed out on TV, perhaps this is a pipe-dream.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
No, but it has been alluded to/possibly shown:
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/d/d8/Dragonglass.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150407175226[/img]
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Great find!
I was going to mention it in the TV thread in the Euron debate, but was not sure if it was actually in the show. This definitely ups his power significantly if it shows up on screen. However, it will seem too deus ex machina for TV viewers/non-readers, since the show has not given its story line early enough imo. It's a shame too, because it's a great piece.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Isn't he also somehow tied to the "Alchemist" character from one of the prologues, believed to be Jaquen or some other faceless man sneaking around Old Town?Thanks for all the updates here, guys.
I really do love the HBO series, but I will be disappointed if we don't get at least one more book.
I was really grokking the Citadel and Oldtown finally getting some more light. Marwyn the Mage is a guy I really wanted to learn more about. I accidentally broached the issue in the TV only thread, as I mentioned that I wised the Jim Broadbent character is Marwyn.
1) He is the only one who has believed Sam IRT the white walkers = Marwyn-esque
2) Marwyn is really the only somewhat major character of the Citadel that I believe would deserve a Broadbent type actor.
Of course, like so many other things that just can't be fleshed out on TV, perhaps this is a pipe-dream.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I believe you are correct CM. Nice memory. Wasn't it a Citadel key that was acquired in that mission? I have not read it in years, and can't quite remember the details.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Yes - the mysterious Alchemist paid a maester-in-training - "Pate" - to steal a key, then apparently killed him and took his identity. The Alchemist matched Jaquar somewhat in appearance. I think Pate made an appearance later, not certain.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Bravo!
Poor Pate...really quite the Gilligan.
Just wanted the tavern girl iirc.
I plan to do a re-read sometime soon; and I think you have just inspired me to push the date forward a bit.
Thanks, and may your dragonglass candle burn bright.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
Maybe he can just hand off finishing the series to Sanderson. At least it will get done.
encaitar
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
He was removed from my Christmas Card list long ago. I, like most of you, invested a significant amount of time in reading this series and there is no hope of it being completed. I'm ok with it playing out on TV but it just leaves so many plot lines empty or simply unmentioned. I guess if someone dumped a pile of money on front step I'd do the same but it doesn't make me feel any better about GRRM. It's lazy and unprofessional IMO.
He can also buy and sell me 100 times over so I don't think he much cares.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Hrumph...
...if Dany catches wind of this, GRRM may have some unsullied land'in on his shore soon.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I understand feeling the way you do - I want to see the books wrapped up, too - but the bolded is a little much. I guess you can contortion into justifying "lazy", though I bet he works harder on the most recent books than he did on the earlier. But, IMO, calling him "unprofessional" is a bridge too far. He doesn't owe us anything.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I believe you are correct on him not owing the readers anything, but...a true professional artist, imo, owes such things to himself and the creation itself when possible.
As far as I know, there are no serious issues preventing this, but I could be wrong.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
He's a perfectionist, has written himself into several corners he doesn't know how to get out of, is getting old, and is richer than the combined income of everyone posting in this thread.
No offense, but your "true professional artist" comment is fan-boy stuff. There have been plenty of unfinished-business artistic ballers - it's internet communities that have turned the offended fan into an art form of its own.
Scott Fitzgerald left stuff unfinished. So did the Beatles and Kubrick and Tolkien.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
I think he's rich and doesn't care so much anymore. And he has a right to not have to finish any more books if he doesn't want to. And, of course, the fans have a right to boo.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
As a semi-pro photographer, this is the standard I set for myself....BUT...you are right.
I will eat my crow.
Sorry for being a fan-boy...I hate that...thanks for pointing it out.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Come on, man. I wasn't busting on you in particular.As a semi-pro photographer, this is the standard I set for myself....BUT...you are right.
I will eat my crow.
Sorry for being a fan-boy...I hate that...thanks for pointing it out.
I just don't think an artist owes us anything but what he/she gives us. It would royally suck if the books never get finished, but I'm not gonna blame Martin if they don't. Stuff happens.
Also, this is a dynamic we've never seen before.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Oh no, I did not think you were busting on me. I sincerely mean what I said, you are right. I was being unfairly judgmental, and I appreciate the heads up you gave me U-H.
And, I totally agree an artist does not owe the public anything...always did.
I was just being arrogant about my own artistic aspirations and tried to pin it on another artist that I will never match.
Again, true appreciation.
Ash
Footballguy
This, but any writer who complains about readers like me who won't start an unfinished series can go beat up GRRM and Patrick Rothfus to work out their anger.
T J
Footballguy
I don't know if the word is unprofessional necessarily, but the guy got rich off people who bought and read his books and watched the subsequent show, which happened to be a series.Uruk-Hai said:
So ya, I do feel like he owes it to the people who made him a multi multi millionaire embracing his story to at least complete it. Leaving the fans hanging is bogus in my opinion. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to have that expectation.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
Except the quality of Sanderson's writing isn't anything great, he is one of the worst writers out there dealing with any sort of male/female interaction, and I don't think he can handle anything above a PG-13 rating.
Super King
Footballguy
I don't know if I have the ambition to read the next book if he does release it. I'm going to know how the overall storyline is going to end. And the next one won't finish the story. So we'll be waiting for the ending, and he'll die before that. Then some hack will finish it. And I don't really feel like rereading the last two books to refresh everything.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
Alleras / Sarella (sp?)
The Sphinx.
Thanks. I like her so far.
As many will/can see, I'm such a nerd that in a world of warriors, dragons, giants and wights. .
...I'm lighting my wick over the library story line.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
The next book will be the last one he ever writes.....he is getting his story told on HBO for the entire world to see...I'm sure he is satisfied with that....
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
It could take him 6 chapters to kill off every main character. He has a knack for that.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
I'm going to disagree with all of you who state that it isn't unprofessional of GRRM to leave the book series unfinished. I believe that there is a reasonable expectation that when we as readers invest our time and money in an epic series that ultimately the writer will make a good faith effort to complete the work that they have started and from which they have profited. Yes, it is possible that there are circumstances that can occur that reasonably prevent the completion of a series, but I see zero evidence for that being the case for GRRM.
I would not have faulted Robert Jordan if he left the Wheel of Time unfinished once he received his terminal diagnosis, however I have the utmost respect and appreciation for him and the extraordinary measures that he took in the last year of his life.
I will reserve final judgment on GRRM until we see if he finishes the series and/or shows an effort to do so. However without a good faith effort on his part, I feel like his reputation and place in history (whatever that may be) will be appropriately tarnished.
I would not have faulted Robert Jordan if he left the Wheel of Time unfinished once he received his terminal diagnosis, however I have the utmost respect and appreciation for him and the extraordinary measures that he took in the last year of his life.
I will reserve final judgment on GRRM until we see if he finishes the series and/or shows an effort to do so. However without a good faith effort on his part, I feel like his reputation and place in history (whatever that may be) will be appropriately tarnished.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
GRRM is a slow writer. It is just his process. Considering that the process results in good writing, I am fine with it. It took 5 years for Crows and 6 for Dragons. Wind of Winter is on his typical pace.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Knowing what we know in regards to the show. What happens in the books? Is there a way to infer the fate of characters? I have to imagine that Yara and Theon don't make it to Dany....Is Lady Stoneheart leading the BwB North...or did they give Arya the revenge that Stoneheart gets in the books?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Seems like the nature/development of the characters has pretty much calcified at this point (including the show). Given that, I've found Arya, Sandor and Jamie to be the most interesting characters. I've really enjoyed their progression through the story the most, and I think they've had the most nuanced and complex treatment (granted, Sandor's received a lot less attention than the other two in terms of pages/screen time). Mellisandre could be an interesting one too by the end of it - she's gone through quite a bit, seems like her faith and self-purpose have been seriously dented, I'm curious to see how things end up for her. I imagine her path will soon converge with Sandor's, seems like he might be in line for a death/resurrection (maybe Dondarrion sacrifices himself for Clegane in the process) - maybe he ends up being Azor Ahai. Doubt it but it would be a good twist.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
Not with any certainty. IIRC, Jojen's Green Dreams saw the Starks rising to power again. For that to happen I think Rickon becomes the Lord of Winterfell. Jon isn't a Stark (Targ or *******), Bran is crippled and likely can't produce an heir (and we don't know if he is stuck north of The Wall or not), Sansa and Arya wouldn't keep the Stark name so by process of elimination Rickon comes to power at some point (may not even be in this series just he is the last Stark standing with Winterfell behind him).Thunderlips said:
I think that Asha tries to use Theon as rightful heir of the Ironborn and that he can rightfully challenge the result of the Kingsmoot (based on some random conversation that I don't recall where it is in the books) - I suspect they both die at some point.
I don't think Lady Stoneheart plays a very big role aside from propelling Brienne's and Jaime's characters forward (or ending them). We last saw, Jaime was going off with Brienne alone presumably because Brienne was fulfilling her oath to Catelyn.
Littlefinger is positioning himself to ally with Dany. We know this because he got the old Targ banners/tapestries shipped to him. I still think he ultimately wants Alayne/Sansa and the Harry the Heir thing is a bit of a sideshow - but there are so many ways the Riverlands/Vale could play out everything is a guess.
If you have read anything else by GRRM, IMO, his endings are satisfying... but they are never hollywood. I wouldn't be surprised if The Wall falls, the dragons die, The Others are permanently destroyed but the cost is Jon is dead, Dany is dead, Arya is dead, Bran is dead and the Sansa/Tyrion marriage is consummated resulting in Tyrion as King, Rickon in the North, Littlefinger in the Riverlands, and magic is dead in the world.
I think the show has done a great job overall but really dropped the ball with the Arya/Tickler, Arya/training, Jaime/Tyrion/Tysha, Dorne/Sandsnakes, and a few other items. I am still optimistic that the books will be completed but I have been waiting for winter to come for about 19 years now.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
It was in the last book, I believe - the story of Somebody Somebody The Latecomer. I think Asha has either already told Stannis about this, or soon will, and he may go along with her plan.
To Ash's comment above, a big part of the problem is that Martin didn't set out to write a seven book series. It was going to be a trilogy: first book ending with the Red Wedding, second with Dany landing in Westeros, and the third to sort it all out. Then it was going to be four books, etc....
Abrantes
Footballguy
Certainly wasn't the feeling I was left with after ADWD (and AFFC, to a lesser extent, which felt more like a very long intermission), but to each their own.Drunken Cowboy said:
The subject of GRRM's professionalism, the fans' entitlement and whether or not he is our b**** is worn to the ground by this point, so I don't have much to add. As someone who takes his time with his own artistic pursuits (though it's in no way a source of income for me), I certainly understand GRRM's pace, and what supporters basically say is "trust the process". I wasn't fond of the last two books, so that certainly has a say in how much I'd trust it, but if you enjoyed the whole series, I can see why you'd be more inclined to have faith.
While I have no precise insight into just how much time GRRM actually puts into ASOIAF on a regular basis, I do understand the claims of unprofessionalism, in the sense that even though it's art and "art can't be rushed", that shouldn't be used as an excuse for bad work habits, if that's what we're dealing with. It's still a job. A good deal of the artistic process is about putting the nose to the grindstone and powering through rough patches, rather than waiting for that ray of inspiration to come to you.
Still, I imagine fans would be quite fine with his slowness if he wasn't in the middle of a 7-book series.
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