HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (9 Viewers)

[Mjolnirs]

Anyone see a young Joffrey on Batman Begins last night?

I guess I did, but didn't know it. Too bad I deleted it.

 

[gump]

Anyone see a young Joffrey on Batman Begins last night?

I guess I did, but didn't know it. Too bad I deleted it.

Kid on the fire escape who Bale ran into when he was hopping thru buildings....first time I've seen him where I didn't have an urge to backhand him.

 

[Harry Manback]

Anyone see a young Joffrey on Batman Begins last night?

I guess I did, but didn't know it. Too bad I deleted it.

Kid on the fire escape who Bale ran into when he was hopping thru buildings....first time I've seen him where I didn't have an urge to backhand him.

I couldn't believe it when I saw him.You know he's a talented actor (and that the writing is excellent) when you have such strong emotions about a character.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Question: why are all these other factions stating that Joffrey isn't the true heir or king? Ned never told anybody what he discovered, correct? The letter to Stannis from Ned never reached him as far as I know.

I wondered the same thing.mild spoiler

Spoiler

Evidently most of the council is aware of this and it is alleged by Stannis in the second book when he announces it to the world. So he learned of it somewhere else or suspected it all along. They haven't really said where he learned it but I suspect Littlefinger.

The eunich and the brothel guy know everyone's secrets. And the super old council guy that showed Ned the lineage book probably figured out the blond hair connection also.Erm, where did you guys get the idea that the letter never made it to Stannis?

 

[Ash]

Anyone see a young Joffrey on Batman Begins last night?

I guess I did, but didn't know it. Too bad I deleted it.

Kid on the fire escape who Bale ran into when he was hopping thru buildings....first time I've seen him where I didn't have an urge to backhand him.

I couldn't believe it when I saw him.You know he's a talented actor (and that the writing is excellent) when you have such strong emotions about a character.

Either that, or he's just a colossal pr!ck in real life too. Would have loved if Sansa had taken him off that bridge in the finale.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

Should I invest myself in this show? I haven't read the book nor am I a wizard and a robe guy. Tried watching the first episode and was very but I have a feeling they were just building the plot.

Definitely. I don't usually go for fantasy/mystical/magical stuff but it's pretty good. You are right that the first episode isn't great. But it grows on you pretty quickly after that.

This is by far the best of the genre I've seen on TV. I just finished it tonight and was very impressed - acting, writing, and special effect were all fantastic. Rome was also very well done, but this is a much better show for me since it's not based on real events. I haven't read the books so it was all new to me and never knew what was coming.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

Something the book guys know, but I don't (and am aching to find out) is why so many people seemed to be opposed to the idea of Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne.

:rubshandstogetherinanticipationthenrealizesspring2012isalongwayaway:

I don't get the feeling that a lot of people are opposed to Stannis:

There are the Lannisters and those that don't know Joffrey isn't the rightful heir.

Renly feels that he would be a better king than Stannis.

The North doesn't want to be ruled by anyone from the south anymore. Even then, Rob called for Stannis to be king because he was the older brother.

I thought I recalled people saying on more than one occasion, something to the effect of : "You really want Stannis Baratheon on the throne?"

I never heard a positive mention of Stannis on the show - whenever his name was mentioned it had something to do with him being a bad king.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

Great finale.

A lot of great story lines, but the Dany portions have been my favorite all along...that was certainly still the case last night (even though my fav character died). Is it possible for Jorah to be the male lead for whatever her people become (will they still be Dothraki?).?

With those dragons...pretty sure they'll be whatever the #### she wants them to be

I don't know that many Dothraki stayed. Those that did were mostly her personal guard and conquered people right?

Yeah, most left and even some that had stayed after Drogo died left when she was saying that they would follow her.

I left off last night at the first Dany chapter(iirc) in the second book...can't wait to get home.

I presume she wouldn't have trouble recruiting once news of her dragons spreads.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Should I invest myself in this show? I haven't read the book nor am I a wizard and a robe guy. Tried watching the first episode and was very but I have a feeling they were just building the plot.

Definitely. I don't usually go for fantasy/mystical/magical stuff but it's pretty good. You are right that the first episode isn't great. But it grows on you pretty quickly after that.

The magical/supernatural elements are very light in this story compared to most fantasy. What drives the story - and why so many people love it - is the characters. The first 5 episodes are full of set-up (though still very good) but the last 5 really ratchet things up.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified.

I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Finally signed up for HBOgo last night and watched episode 1. Like the enhanced stuff on the side too.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

he looks pretty old, gotta hope he finishes em up.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Finally signed up for HBOgo last night and watched episode 1. Like the enhanced stuff on the side too.

What kind of extras do they have? I'm signed up for it, but rarely think about watching TV on a computer since I've got the shows DVRed.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

Which character?

Spoiler

Arya?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

Which character?

Spoiler

Arya?

Yep. New Readers/Watchers - Don't click that if you don't want to know if a particular character survives to book #5.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Finally signed up for HBOgo last night and watched episode 1. Like the enhanced stuff on the side too.

What kind of extras do they have? I'm signed up for it, but rarely think about watching TV on a computer since I've got the shows DVRed.

they introduce the characters as they appear, and you can click on the fmaily tree of house of stark or the royal family. Reading the books IM sure you know most of it already. But it helps the non-book readers. There are clips from George and the producer of the series too.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

Which character?

Spoiler

Arya?

Yep. New Readers/Watchers - Don't click that if you don't want to know if a particular character survives to book #5.

Spoiler

What do you think the end game is for her? Heroic death? I can't see how she can come back to playing princess.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

Which character?

Spoiler

Arya?

Spoiler

Yep. New Readers/Watchers - Don't click that if you don't want to know if a particular character survives to book #5.

Spoiler

What do you think the end game is for her? Heroic death? I can't see how she can come back to playing princess.

Spoiler

Man, I don't know. Sometimes I think she'll make it - she's Martin's favorite along with Tyrion - but I have no idea in what capacity. Maybe she & Gendry hook back up?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Finally signed up for HBOgo last night and watched episode 1. Like the enhanced stuff on the side too.

What kind of extras do they have? I'm signed up for it, but rarely think about watching TV on a computer since I've got the shows DVRed.

they introduce the characters as they appear, and you can click on the fmaily tree of house of stark or the royal family. Reading the books IM sure you know most of it already. But it helps the non-book readers. There are clips from George and the producer of the series too.

No doubt and it's good that HBO did this. Even though the TV show has consolidated the cast of characters from the books, there's still a LOT of people to keep straight. I have a coworker watching who hasn't read the books - he gets most of the important stuff but some of the relationships are a little hazy to him.The EW reviews are great too. Hibberd tells you only what you should know up to that particular episode, given only what's been shown on the TV show itself. He's read the books so he knows the background without spoiling anything.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Question: why are all these other factions stating that Joffrey isn't the true heir or king? Ned never told anybody what he discovered, correct? The letter to Stannis from Ned never reached him as far as I know.

I wondered the same thing.mild spoiler

Spoiler

Evidently most of the council is aware of this and it is alleged by Stannis in the second book when he announces it to the world. So he learned of it somewhere else or suspected it all along. They haven't really said where he learned it but I suspect Littlefinger.

Spoiler

The eunich and the brothel guy know everyone's secrets. And the super old council guy that showed Ned the lineage book probably figured out the blond hair connection also.

Erm, where did you guys get the idea that the letter never made it to Stannis?I may be mistaken but...potential

Spoiler

I think in the book it states that the queen intercepted the messenger. That wasn't covered in the movie.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

OK, so I am 120 pages into Clash of Kings. I have a few questions, observations, and guesses:

Spoiler

In the HBO finale they do not say or do anything, nor is there any focus on the red comet. Or at least I didn't notice it. This comet is very prominent so far in my reading. Seems an odd thing to leave out.

Stannis seems to be a ####. A grumpy tough ###, whose skin is thinner than he lets on.

Earlier somebody referenced another character who was only briefly introduced, who also lays a claim to the Throne. I'm assuming it is The Bull.

So it seems apparent now that Cercei was not involved with killing John Arryn based on her first conversation with Imp. My theory here is that it was Lysa with likely the assistance or knowledge of Littlefinger. Lysa lied to her sister saying she took her son to the Eyrie because her husband was sending him to ward with Tywin Lannister. However, he was actually supposed to go to Dragonstone with Stannis based on what a few people had said. So Lysa killed him to make sure her son did not leave her ###, I mean side. Littlefinger must have known of the secret and did not want it yet to come to light, so he wanted Arryn eliminated. Now, how Littlefinger knew what Bran saw and sent that assassin and knew to set up the Lannisters . . . I'm not sure yet.

Theon is totally going to #### Robb over. He sends him to his father against his mother's wishes. They plot. ####.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Question: why are all these other factions stating that Joffrey isn't the true heir or king? Ned never told anybody what he discovered, correct? The letter to Stannis from Ned never reached him as far as I know.

I wondered the same thing.mild spoiler

Spoiler

Evidently most of the council is aware of this and it is alleged by Stannis in the second book when he announces it to the world. So he learned of it somewhere else or suspected it all along. They haven't really said where he learned it but I suspect Littlefinger.

Spoiler

The eunich and the brothel guy know everyone's secrets. And the super old council guy that showed Ned the lineage book probably figured out the blond hair connection also.

Spoiler

Erm, where did you guys get the idea that the letter never made it to Stannis?

I may be mistaken but...potential

Spoiler

I think in the book it states that the queen intercepted the messenger. That wasn't covered in the movie.

Right. And

Spoiler

it was Sansa who ratted to the Queen all of her father's plans.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

OK, so I am 120 pages into Clash of Kings. I have a few questions, observations, and guesses:

Spoiler

In the HBO finale they do not say or do anything, nor is there any focus on the red comet. Or at least I didn't notice it. This comet is very prominent so far in my reading. Seems an odd thing to leave out.Stannis seems to be a ####. A grumpy tough ###, whose skin is thinner than he lets on.Earlier somebody referenced another character who was only briefly introduced, who also lays a claim to the Throne. I'm assuming it is The Bull.So it seems apparent now that Cercei was not involved with killing John Arryn based on her first conversation with Imp. My theory here is that it was Lysa with likely the assistance or knowledge of Littlefinger. Lysa lied to her sister saying she took her son to the Eyrie because her husband was sending him to ward with Tywin Lannister. However, he was actually supposed to go to Dragonstone with Stannis based on what a few people had said. So Lysa killed him to make sure her son did not leave her ###, I mean side. Littlefinger must have known of the secret and did not want it yet to come to light, so he wanted Arryn eliminated. Now, how Littlefinger knew what Bran saw and sent that assassin and knew to set up the Lannisters . . . I'm not sure yet.Theon is totally going to #### Robb over. He sends him to his father against his mother's wishes. They plot. ####.

Spoiler

I was surprised they left the comet out, too, but they can introduce it at the beginning of next season and not mess things up.2 of your assumptions are wrong (well, one is only kinda wrong given what we know to date), the others you're close on.

 

[fasteddie_21]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/23/game-of-thrones-casting/HBO’s Game of Thrones has made its first casting hire for season 2:Natalie Dormer, who memorably played the seductive and doomed Anne Boleyn on Showtime’s The Tudors, has been added to the fantasy drama’s regular cast.Dormer will play Margaery Tyrell, a

Spoiler

(minor spoiler alert) beautiful and shrewd young woman from the influential House Tyrell. She’s pledged to marry the late King Robert’s brother, Renly Baratheon, as part of House Tyrell’s support for his bid to seize the Iron Throne from King Joffrey.

Loved her in the TudorsI approve of this casting decisionWas about to post the exact same thing. Big on that casting!

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think the draw of the story is that it just seems realistic. Obviously we will never know how feudal society actually was back in the day. But the ambiguity of the characters (well other than Ned) is so realistic. It is so like that in real life. People are mostly good. But then they'll just do something bad when improperly motivated. Good guys cheat on their wives and vice versa. People will lie to protect their kids from the repercussions of their actions. People steal when they feel justified. I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to carry this thing all the way through. I just hope Martin doesn't lose interest again. You have to remember that the last book in this series came out in 2005 or 2006. And that was after a long wait as well. The first three books came out in 3 years. Then he was famous and it took 5 more years. Then he was very famous and it has taken 6 more years. As this rate, we are probably looking at a series that never gets finished, which would really suck.

I'm optimistic by nature, but I think that we will get the final two books much quicker than we got the last two. Martin had written himself into a corner when he scrapped his 5 year gap, had to rewrite (& re-rewrite) everything he had, and then get all of his timelines/locations in synch (for instance, he's got one character waaaay out in front of everyone else - by almost a year). I'm hopeful that ADWD gets everyone where/when they need to be for the final push and that the next two books come much easier to him. That's not to say that his distractions weren't a big part in the delays (and won't be again), just that I think the actual writing part won't be as difficult going forward.

Which character?

Spoiler

Arya?

Spoiler

Yep. New Readers/Watchers - Don't click that if you don't want to know if a particular character survives to book #5.

Spoiler

What do you think the end game is for her? Heroic death? I can't see how she can come back to playing princess.

Spoiler

She'll be either hand to Dany, or leader of her queesguard at the end.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/23/game-of-thrones-casting/HBO’s Game of Thrones has made its first casting hire for season 2:Natalie Dormer, who memorably played the seductive and doomed Anne Boleyn on Showtime’s The Tudors, has been added to the fantasy drama’s regular cast.Dormer will play Margaery Tyrell, a

Spoiler

(minor spoiler alert) beautiful and shrewd young woman from the influential House Tyrell. She’s pledged to marry the late King Robert’s brother, Renly Baratheon, as part of House Tyrell’s support for his bid to seize the Iron Throne from King Joffrey.

Spoiler

Loved her in the TudorsI approve of this casting decision

Was about to post the exact same thing. Big on that casting! I don't know the actress, but her wikipedia entry indicates she is 29, so it appears to be another example of the HBO series using significantly older actors as compared to the character ages in the books. I think Margaery was something like 14 when she first appears in the books.

 

[scoobygang]

I don't know the actress, but her wikipedia entry indicates she is 29, so it appears to be another example of the HBO series using significantly older actors as compared to the character ages in the books. I think Margaery was something like 14 when she first appears in the books.

She looks younger. Dormer really grew into the role of Anne. Her Season 2 performance is really the only thing I liked in The Tudors. She nailed it.

 

[Major]

Should I invest myself in this show? I haven't read the book nor am I a wizard and a robe guy. Tried watching the first episode and was very but I have a feeling they were just building the plot.

Definitely. I don't usually go for fantasy/mystical/magical stuff but it's pretty good. You are right that the first episode isn't great. But it grows on you pretty quickly after that.

The magical/supernatural elements are very light in this story compared to most fantasy. What drives the story - and why so many people love it - is the characters. The first 5 episodes are full of set-up (though still very good) but the last 5 really ratchet things up.

Thanks for the advice. With Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire all on hiatus, I need a new show.

 

[biggamer3]

Should I invest myself in this show? I haven't read the book nor am I a wizard and a robe guy. Tried watching the first episode and was very but I have a feeling they were just building the plot.

Definitely. I don't usually go for fantasy/mystical/magical stuff but it's pretty good. You are right that the first episode isn't great. But it grows on you pretty quickly after that.

The magical/supernatural elements are very light in this story compared to most fantasy. What drives the story - and why so many people love it - is the characters. The first 5 episodes are full of set-up (though still very good) but the last 5 really ratchet things up.

Thanks for the advice. With Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire all on hiatus, I need a new show.

Dude its back in a week or two

 

[hotdogcollars]

someone needs to tell me what to do tonight from 9-10p. please?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Loving Clash of Kings so far. Tyrion is awesome.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

In reading first book, I'm shocked at how well HBO captured it all. Maybe some inner dialogue and a few details are missing, but they've pretty much used the book as verbatim script.

Made me want to skip the rest of the first book and jump to the second.

Until I hit the Chapter where they detail what was going on with Bran (in his head) between the Jamie Lannister shove, the impact with the ground, and his awakening (and not depicted in the show aside from the seemingly - before now - inexplicable crow).

Wow. Good stuff.

 

[Buckna]

Thanks to the True Blood premier there was a weekend of free HBO all weekend and I was able to catch up on all the episodes. Gotta say they did a great job with the series. Even the few "extra" new scenes they added that weren't in the books were very well done and served to illuminate many of the characters and their motivations. I particularily enjoyed I think 2 different "chats" between Littlefinger & Varys, the 2 puppetmasters behind the scenes.

Hard part now is waiting. I stopped myself reading the series after book 2 so I could space it out in case book 6 takes another 5 years, but I don't know if I'll be able to resist any longer.

 

[the moops]

I know nothing of this book/series. Just downloaded the first few episodes.Is it worth the time? I have watched like 5 minutes of episode 1 and am intrigued.

short answer; Yeslonger answer; schityeah

Well #### me. One week later I have watched them all. Now what.Good stuff

 

[The Gator]

I know nothing of this book/series. Just downloaded the first few episodes.Is it worth the time? I have watched like 5 minutes of episode 1 and am intrigued.

short answer; Yeslonger answer; schityeah

Well #### me. One week later I have watched them all. Now what.Good stuff

Onto the books?

 

[The Gator]

Loving Clash of Kings so far. Tyrion is awesome.

He's been amazing in this book. Just read his chapter last night (23ish... bad ###)

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

Loving Clash of Kings so far. Tyrion is awesome.

He's been amazing in this book. Just read his chapter last night (23ish... bad ###)

Early in life, Tyrion found himself ostracized from regular family life, and sought his own entertainment. When Tyrion was 13, he and Jaime rescued a common girl, Tysha. Tysha found Tyrion pleasing, and they married in secret, but Lord Tywin claimed that she was a prostitute whom Jaime had hired for Tyrion's benefit. Tywin had her repeatedly raped before Tyrion's eyes, and ultimately forced the boy to do the same.[1] This incident scarred Tyrion, but also brought him closer to Jaime, whom he held in gratitude for bringing Tysha to him.

I got this on Wikipedia and was confused since the show portrayed this far differently. I got the impression that Tyrion hated his brother for doing that.

 

[kupcho1]

Loving Clash of Kings so far. Tyrion is awesome.

He's been amazing in this book. Just read his chapter last night (23ish... bad ###)

Early in life, Tyrion found himself ostracized from regular family life, and sought his own entertainment. When Tyrion was 13, he and Jaime rescued a common girl, Tysha. Tysha found Tyrion pleasing, and they married in secret, but Lord Tywin claimed that she was a prostitute whom Jaime had hired for Tyrion's benefit. Tywin had her repeatedly raped before Tyrion's eyes, and ultimately forced the boy to do the same.[1] This incident scarred Tyrion, but also brought him closer to Jaime, whom he held in gratitude for bringing Tysha to him.

I got this on Wikipedia and was confused since the show portrayed this far differently. I got the impression that Tyrion hated his brother for doing that.

Not at this point.

 

[Ilov80s]

HBO replayed the series this week. I watched the entire thing in 3 days. I had never even heard of the book before the HBO series and am not a fantasy fan. However, the HBO show is fantastic and this is my favorite thing they have done since the Wire. My 5 best observations

1. Daenerys is stunning

2. I am praying Joffrey dies a miserable death

3. I don't hate Sansa nearly as much as most here- I actually feel really bad for her

4. Arya Stark is a great character and that girl who plays her just kills it

5. Damn Khal Drago, I was really hoping to see him lead his barbarian horde onto the main island and into a massive battle with the king's forces

Anyway, again reminds me a bit of the Wire where there are so many characters and settings, everything ties together, and every piece matters. Amazing stuff.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

1. Daenerys is stunning

indeed, and I also applaud Emilia Clarke's willingness to get naked at the drop of a hat.

 

[Ilov80s]

1. Daenerys is stunning

indeed, and I also applaud Emilia Clarke's willingness to get naked at the drop of a hat.

Oh, she gets naked in it? I hadn't noticed.

 

[Buckna]

Thanks to the True Blood premier there was a weekend of free HBO all weekend and I was able to catch up on all the episodes. Gotta say they did a great job with the series. Even the few "extra" new scenes they added that weren't in the books were very well done and served to illuminate many of the characters and their motivations. I particularily enjoyed I think 2 different "chats" between Littlefinger & Varys, the 2 puppetmasters behind the scenes.Hard part now is waiting. I stopped myself reading the series after book 2 so I could space it out in case book 6 takes another 5 years, but I don't know if I'll be able to resist any longer.

Started Storm of Swords a few days ago. I think I can already guess what character/chapter it is everyone keeps talking about in this book, but knowing Martin I am probably way off.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Thanks to the True Blood premier there was a weekend of free HBO all weekend and I was able to catch up on all the episodes. Gotta say they did a great job with the series. Even the few "extra" new scenes they added that weren't in the books were very well done and served to illuminate many of the characters and their motivations. I particularily enjoyed I think 2 different "chats" between Littlefinger & Varys, the 2 puppetmasters behind the scenes.Hard part now is waiting. I stopped myself reading the series after book 2 so I could space it out in case book 6 takes another 5 years, but I don't know if I'll be able to resist any longer.

Started Storm of Swords a few days ago. I think I can already guess what character/chapter it is everyone keeps talking about in this book, but knowing Martin I am probably way off.

I'm jealous of you first-time readers. I've never had a book/series make me throw the damned thing across the room except this one. Have fun & keep plenty of whiskey handy - you may need it.

 

[modogg]

i know it was mentioned ealrier in the thread about Joffrey being in Batman Begins, and one thing this series did was really create strong characters. I watched this movie on SciFi yesterday called the Cave, and it had the queen in it. Just funny watching these actors/actresses in something else when they have created such a strong opinion (for me) with their acting in this series.

 

[Christo]

In defense of HBO's "unnecessary" nudity

Why a newspaper editorial about the naked bodies on the pay cable channel is a remnant of the Puritan mentality

"Maybe it's time to tone down the ####," writes Mary McNamara, TV critic of the Los Angeles Times.

She's talking to HBO, a cable channel that she says is "once again in full stride...with Emmy-winning movies, a panoply of well-done documentaries, successful comedies and dramatic hits both popular — 'True Blood' — and critical — 'Boardwalk Empire,' 'Treme.'" And now it has another hit, "Game of Thrones" -- a series based on George R.R. Martin's fantasy fiction that happens to include female nudity.

No operation that's producing this much good TV needs to be airing so much female nudity; that's the specious starting point of McNamara's column, the notion that nudity is not one ingredient in an R-rated stew of elements on HBO series -- "Game of Thrones" in particular -- but something that a cable channel shows because the programs themselves aren't interesting otherwise. Really, now, HBO, you're better than this, she's saying -- conveniently disregarding the fact that HBO has been showing sex and nudity, along with graphic violence and profanity, since its creation in 1975.

McNamara's editorial is not the first strike against unclothed feminine pulchritude on cable dramas, and against HBO's "Game of Thrones" in particular. The series has sparked debate about nudity and sex on cable TV, and especially what some critics have termed "sexposition" -- a term coined by TV critic Myles McNutt that refers to the delivery of supposedly routine plot information while characters are getting dressed, taking a bath, having sex, etc. "Game of Thrones" had several scenes like that during its ten-episode run. Vulture ran a half-cutesy, half-censorious slide show highlighting them.

"This oft-discussed criticism is a valid one, in my opinion," wrote Winter is Coming, blogging about the first season of "Game of Thrones." "It’s not just the use of sex and nudity while giving exposition that is the problem. It is the fact that the writers went to that well a few too many times. And some of those scenes worked better than others."

But McNamara's piece is easily the highest-profile strike against nudity on HBO. The Los Angeles Times is the dominant daily newspaper in the industrial capital of popular culture, the metro area where the majority of U.S. TV shows are made. Her tone seems measured and her complaints reasonable. And yet when you examine her arguments closely, a different agenda reveals itself. McNamara distinguishes between supposedly necessary and unnecessary nudity, and it's interesting, to put it sarcastically, which examples she chooses to put in which category.

"Breasts," she writes, "are what you see on cable during a lovemaking scene or when a character is caught unawares or when, as in the season finale of 'Game of Thrones,' the last of the Targaryen [family, Danerys Targaryen], rises, naked and miraculous, from her husband's funeral pyre with three baby dragons clinging to her....#### are what you see in a strip club or a brothel, when conversations or action between men, which usually have nothing to do with said strip club or brothel, are surrounded by nameless and silent women lounging or gyrating about in various stages of undress...In one episode of 'Game of Thrones,' the upper frontals got so gratuitous — two women teaching themselves the tricks of prostitution while a male character, fully clothed, muses about his personal history and definition of power — that fans took to Twitter to complain. Even the fine finale included a young nude woman washing her particulars while her elderly john monologued about the nature of kings."

Let's start by admitting that not every single bit of nudity on "Game of Thrones" was so necessary that the show couldn't have done without it. There were indeed moments where the director of an episode cut away to a shot of some giggling half-naked woman during a scene set in a brothel, or had a semi-nude woman wander through the foreground or background of a shot while a couple of characters were conversing about whatever subject.

But for the most part, I would defend the vast majority of the nude and partly nude shots on "Game of Thrones" as, if not absolutely, totally integral to the plot, then at least imaginative enough pass muster as drama -- just not a drama that kids should be allowed to watch. Oh, hell, let's just go ahead and say it: most of them were as integral as TV scenes get.

The scene between Theon and the prostitute Ros, for example, starts by showing the final 30 seconds of their copulation, then quickly moves to Ros and Theon in conversation, with Theon carrying most of the scene's skin quotient; the point of the scene is to establish that they have a relationship founded entirely on sex and a power imbalance (he has power, she has none) and to deliver information about Theon's relationship to other characters. But the scene also reveals character. You can tell by their body language, facial expressions and tones of voice that Ros actually holds the upper hand in the relationship because, macho bluster aside, her john is smitten with her, and she's just doing what she needs to do to survive and get ahead. In a subsequent scene where Theon says goodbye to Ros as she's leaving the territory in a wagon, he seems to be trying hard to hide how bummed he is.

Another scene -- singled out by McNamara and other writers as gratuitous -- strikes me as one of the cleverest and most useful deployments of nudity on the series. It shows the character of Littlefinger, a brothel owner and power broker who still carries a torch for the widowed Lady Catelyn Stark, instructing Ros and another female prostitute on how to fake interest and enthusiasm during a tryst. Littlefinger's whole life is based on deception, on making people believe in whatever lie he's selling; he's also a personally very seductive character whose fortune is built on the flesh trade. Littlefinger is a fascinating yet ultimately pathetic man, and as I look back on this scene, I would say that it tells us more about him than any other single moment in season one of "Game of Thrones."

McNamara, however, looks at the scene and sees only "####." And she finds it indefensible compared to the final shot of the season -- the slow pullback that shows the naked, symbolically "reborn" Danerys with the baby dragons, a shot that is deliberately framed and lit to evoke the decidedly non-carnal glory of a Renaissance painting of the Virgin Mary.

The other scene McNamara singles out as problematic -- the scene where "a young nude woman wash[es] her particulars while her elderly john monologue about the nature of kings" -- is even more defensible as drama. The character, Maester Pycelle, was set up with Ros specifically so that Littlefinger could glean where he stood on the issue of the young king Joffrey taking the throne. He tells Ros not what he actually thinks, but what he wants Littlefinger to hear -- that he thinks Joffrey will make a great king -- and when she leaves, he does a series of energetic squats which reveal that he's not the doddering, hapless old man others think he is.

Also: Littlefinger is a brothel owner (as in the literary source), and he is therefore ideally suited to dole out sexual favors and get information (his stock-in-trade) in return. McNamara's complaint that the "GOT" scenes set in brothels didn't need to be set in brothels doesn't track. So the brothel owner should have more conversations outside his place of business, the place where he feels most comfortable and is most in control? The critic wonders if there is "some sort of private office where madams and menfolk could talk. I also wonder about all this free nudity — doesn't money have to exchange hands before the clothes come off?" Er, no and no -- not in the sort of establishment that Littlefinger runs. Her gripe also misses an important point, that Littlefinger is betting that the combination of liquor and carnal pleasure and flattery of heterosexual male fantasy will loosen visitors' lips and reveal information that he can use elsewhere -- and he's often proved right.

The fact that McNamara approves of the nudity in the dragon scene but not the Littlefinger "faking it" scene or the scene with old Maester Pycelle is telling. It's of a piece with a tediously moralizing strain in American criticism, one which insists that all sex and nudity must be dramatically "justified," even if it occurs on a TV series based on a highly sexual series of fantasy novels that take place in a male-dominated world in which women fight tooth and nail for power, and achieve it.

The phrase "sexposition," however catchy and cute, is a loaded one, and maddening. It concedes that the makers of a particular R-rated TV series have gone out of their way to blend theoretically prurient sex and nudity with actual storytelling, but are being taken to task anyway. Not once in any scene of the show's first season did the filmmakers show unclothed or copulating characters without some kind of necessary plot movement happening at the same time, always giving the narrative element prominence. And when you look at the total running time of season one of "Game of Thrones" -- somewhere around 600 minutes -- less than five percent of its running time featured sex or nudity of any kind. Viewed in its totality, "Game of Thrones" is a chaste show. And yet the sex and nudity are constantly being scrutinized and judged for being "necessary" or "unnecessary."

Meanwhile, as I have noted elsewhere, neither McNamara nor other critics editorializing about supposedly excessive nudity and sex on "Game of Thrones" ever say so much as one measly word about the intensely graphic violence and raunchy language on the series.

For the record, I don't have a problem with any of the violence or language on "Game of Thrones," either; it's set in a Dungeons and Dragons-flavored version of Hobbes' State of Nature, and as such, we should expect to see elemental human activities depicted often, and with gusto, and if we have a problem with that, we shouldn't be watching. I just find it grimly amusing that, for whatever reason, sex and nudity must be handled with special care, and must always be "necessary" and utterly unimpeachable in their presentation, yet profanity and violence are rarely held to such such standards. This is America's Puritan mentality coming home to roost in criticism. Closeups of throats being slit and limbs being lopped off are an expected part of R-rated entertainment aimed at adult viewers, and not even worthy of comment. But nudity and sex must be "justified."

There's a useful discussion to be had here about the dominance of the male gaze and how it informs the programming choices of HBO and other cable channels. I agree with the implication -- and that's unfortunately all it is in the L.A. Times piece, an implication -- that HBO dramas such as "Game of Thrones" and "Boardwalk Empire" are too often set in a "man's world" filled with crime, violence and various sorts of exploitation, and that the producers' decision of whom to show in coitus and when tends to confirm that popular culture is still run by straight, white men, with every other sexual point-of-view getting served as an afterthought, if at all. (Where are the editorials complaining about excessive sex and nudity on HBO's vampire soap "True Blood", by the way? Are copious amounts of sex and nudity OK on a series as long as it's not trying to be "serious"?)

As I said before in Salon, there is nothing wrong with the heterosexist-centered nudity on "Game of Thrones" that more male nudity and same-sex couplings wouldn't balance out. But that holds true only if that is, in fact, the problem that a viewer has with a series -- too much female nudity in heterosexual contexts, not enough nudity of other sorts.

If, however, the problem is that the viewer is "taken out" of the show by seeing naked people in general -- or that the sight makes him or her uncomfortable compared to graphic violence and language -- well, that's a whole other discussion, and probably not a productive one, because then we're getting into subjective matters of sensibility.

This whole argument is misdirected and misses the larger, more important picture: Whose fantasy is HBO indulging, why is it indulging it, and what other sorts of fantasies could it cater to?

But that's not the takeaway from McNamara's piece. The takeaway is another remnant of America's Puritan mentality, which holds that female nudity is dramatically "unnecessary" and unacceptable unless it's divorced from sex.

It all reminds me of a Jack Nicholson quote from the 1970s, complaining about the hypocrisy of the MPAA ratings system: "Cut off a woman's ### with a sword, they give you a PG. Kiss it, and it's an R."

* Matt Zoller Seitz is Salon's staff television critic.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/07/06/game_of_thrones_sex_and_nudity/

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

No way I'm reading all of that.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Started AFFC last night. Doubt I will be finished by Tuesday when Dragons comes out, but it should be close to it

These books are awesome!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Thanks to the True Blood premier there was a weekend of free HBO all weekend and I was able to catch up on all the episodes. Gotta say they did a great job with the series. Even the few "extra" new scenes they added that weren't in the books were very well done and served to illuminate many of the characters and their motivations. I particularily enjoyed I think 2 different "chats" between Littlefinger & Varys, the 2 puppetmasters behind the scenes.Hard part now is waiting. I stopped myself reading the series after book 2 so I could space it out in case book 6 takes another 5 years, but I don't know if I'll be able to resist any longer.

Started Storm of Swords a few days ago. I think I can already guess what character/chapter it is everyone keeps talking about in this book, but knowing Martin I am probably way off.

I'm jealous of you first-time readers. I've never had a book/series make me throw the damned thing across the room except this one. Have fun & keep plenty of whiskey handy - you may need it.

I am about half way through Clash of Kings now. I can see how things are lining up to really piss me off. The book is very good though and the pace is about to really pick up I feel. Tyrion is still awesome even if he is a Lannister.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Just watched the whole series again.

Im going to pick up the entire series on QP on Tuesday.

One thing I didnt like about the TV show

- The death of King Robert. they didnt show anything just him coming back from the accident with the boar. Im sure there was some plotting by the gay duo and they are saving it. And also when a King dies isnt there some kind of big funeral?

All in all the best fantasy genre thing I have seen. LOTR is so wimpy compared to this, great an all, but this scrathes me right where I itch, and I still play Magic and D&D!

I also havent read a fanstasy series since the Drow Elf stuff by RA Salvatore and the Dragonlance first 6 books. So Im ready