HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[PIK95]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books? IMO the later books have sheaves of wasted paper and ink and wouldn't make compelling television. According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2. Mostly, the story just loses focus. And even if they play out the next few books over 3-4 seasons it's unlikely Martin will have gotten himself to completion on the series by then. And they can't really take a couple of seasons off, let the cast scatter to the winds, and then try to get the band back together.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I hope they FF through the Danerays stuff and spend more time on others going forward. Ayra could have her own show with all her travels imo.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books? IMO the later books have sheaves of wasted paper and ink and wouldn't make compelling television. According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2. Mostly, the story just loses focus. And even if they play out the next few books over 3-4 seasons it's unlikely Martin will have gotten himself to completion on the series by then. And they can't really take a couple of seasons off, let the cast scatter to the winds, and then try to get the band back together.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

Hard to say - I think I read an interview where he said he told the show's producers how he envisions everything ending - in case he dies.

 

[Froglova]

If Littlefinger did indeed recognize Ayra at Harrenhall, how pissed will he be when he gets there to find her gone?

 

[Chaka]

I just want them to resolve Starks v Lannisters. That has been the least exciting protracted war ever. It feels like a forgotten minor subplot at this point when, for me, it was the most compelling part of season 1.

 

[mad sweeney]

I liked the first Episode real White Walkers a heck of alot more.

I was about to ask if the things in the first episode were something different. They didn't seem like these White Walkers. Im also curious to find out how there can be so many Wildlings with that many White Walkers around.

Spoiler

There are two kinds of white walkers. Wights are the dead people who come back with blue eyes and are basically zombies - these are what we saw in the first episode and what Jon Snow killed later that season. There's also what they call the "Others" (the thing riding the dead horse with the ice spear) that can turn people or animals they kill into zombies and who apparently have some sort of control over them.

Almost, but not quite right.

Spoiler

The White Walkers are the Others. I don't recall reading anything that refers to the wights as White Walkers. What we saw in episode 1 were Others plus some recently deceased and reanimated corpses with blue eyes which are Wights. As for the Others vs the Wildlings question, the Walkers have been gone for a thousand years, they're just a story. Maybe some Wildlings have glimpsed Walkers, I don't recall, but for the most part they are only recently massing again to cause serious #### to the humans.

 

[Sabertooth]

I just want them to resolve Starks v Lannisters. That has been the least exciting protracted war ever. It feels like a forgotten minor subplot at this point when, for me, it was the most compelling part of season 1.

it is called A Game of ThrONES for a reason.

 

[Sabertooth]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books? IMO the later books have sheaves of wasted paper and ink and wouldn't make compelling television. According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2. Mostly, the story just loses focus. And even if they play out the next few books over 3-4 seasons it's unlikely Martin will have gotten himself to completion on the series by then. And they can't really take a couple of seasons off, let the cast scatter to the winds, and then try to get the band back together.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

Well GRRM told them how to end it, in case he passes. Book3 will be season 3 & 4.

I'm not so sure on this. That's what the link above says on what the show creators are envisioning. But I can see the studio telling them to hurry the #### up and instead consolidating/cutting out plotlines to speed the story along.

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

 

[gump]

Well done for the season finale. There were a couple of necessary minor departures from the book, and one major one that may or may not matter in 3 or 4 seasons.

You just knew they weren't gonna screw with Tyrions nose...the huge facial scar should work just as well. The changes to the house of the undying made sense given the dragon abduction addition...thought that was a nice resolution. Not sure why they didn't make it more clear that the ******* of Bolton was responsible for burning down Winterfell...that should be obvious, but clearly wasn't.

I took it as they were cutting out Bolton's ******* in the whole Winterfell scene. I am curious where Theon is though...I guess they took him home?

Haven't read the books yet. This just seems like a huge plot point to handle the way they did. The Bolton ******* effectively declared war on the Starks.

But aren't they bringing Theon back to Robb? I don't know enough about the symbolism of burning a castle....but couldn't they say they did it when they overtook Theon and his men?

 

[gump]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.

Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.

So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?

It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

 

[pantherclub]

Well done for the season finale. There were a couple of necessary minor departures from the book, and one major one that may or may not matter in 3 or 4 seasons.

You just knew they weren't gonna screw with Tyrions nose...the huge facial scar should work just as well. The changes to the house of the undying made sense given the dragon abduction addition...thought that was a nice resolution. Not sure why they didn't make it more clear that the ******* of Bolton was responsible for burning down Winterfell...that should be obvious, but clearly wasn't.

I took it as they were cutting out Bolton's ******* in the whole Winterfell scene. I am curious where Theon is though...I guess they took him home?

Haven't read the books yet. This just seems like a huge plot point to handle the way they did. The Bolton ******* effectively declared war on the Starks.

But aren't they bringing Theon back to Robb?

I don't know enough about the symbolism of burning a castle....but couldn't they say they did it when they overtook Theon and his men?

In the books no something else happens to him but you dont find out until wayyyyy later. That was a pretty big deviation from the book IMO. The Bolton story is pretty essential in the last book.

 

[pantherclub]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

In the book, Tywin knows what the Imp does, acknowledges it but refuses to accept that as the turning point. This disrespect (and another nugget of crucial info) is another huge turning point in the series.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

By and large, Season 1 was much better than Season 2 imo. This is the point in the narrative where the story becomes very frayed. Characters and plots start splitting off, dying off, and it becomes the Soap Opera of Westernos without a clear sense of why you still care of what actually happens to all these people. With a couple of notable exceptions, I just don't see what comes next as must-see tv or something that really holds onto the casual fanbase. Add in the logistics of holding onto a cast for X seasons and I just see this wrapping up in 2-3 seasons rather than the 4-9 that it would take to completely tell Martin's story.

I hear you. The story may veer off more and more. But I don't see them wrapping it up any time soon. Season 3 and 4 will still be riveting. They are the best portions of the story to date.

 

[pantherclub]

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

By and large, Season 1 was much better than Season 2 imo. This is the point in the narrative where the story becomes very frayed. Characters and plots start splitting off, dying off, and it becomes the Soap Opera of Westernos without a clear sense of why you still care of what actually happens to all these people. With a couple of notable exceptions, I just don't see what comes next as must-see tv or something that really holds onto the casual fanbase. Add in the logistics of holding onto a cast for X seasons and I just see this wrapping up in 2-3 seasons rather than the 4-9 that it would take to completely tell Martin's story.

I hear you. The story may veer off more and more. But I don't see them wrapping it up any time soon. Season 3 and 4 will still be riveting. They are the best portions of the story to date.

Agree. The last book was pretty awesome as well. Although the Danerys storyline just drags on and on until the last book.

 

[Gator Shawn]

It's so damn hard to talk about this series and not give spoilers. My wife is a huge fan of the series but has not read any of the books. I can barely converse with her about it.

 

[Gator Shawn]

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

By and large, Season 1 was much better than Season 2 imo. This is the point in the narrative where the story becomes very frayed. Characters and plots start splitting off, dying off, and it becomes the Soap Opera of Westernos without a clear sense of why you still care of what actually happens to all these people. With a couple of notable exceptions, I just don't see what comes next as must-see tv or something that really holds onto the casual fanbase. Add in the logistics of holding onto a cast for X seasons and I just see this wrapping up in 2-3 seasons rather than the 4-9 that it would take to completely tell Martin's story.

I hear you. The story may veer off more and more. But I don't see them wrapping it up any time soon. Season 3 and 4 will still be riveting. They are the best portions of the story to date.

Agree. The last book was pretty awesome as well. Although the Danerys storyline just drags on and on until the last book.

TBH, I skim Danaerys chapters. Ugh.

 

[jdoggydogg]

My son is watching the horrible movie "Underdog" right now.

The mad scientist bad guy?

None other than Peter Tyrion Dinklage (David Puddy is his co-bad guy).

Not a lot of quality roles for little people.

All the dwarves in Snow White and the Huntsman are CGI'd regular people. Kinda sad little people couldn't get those roles.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

By and large, Season 1 was much better than Season 2 imo. This is the point in the narrative where the story becomes very frayed. Characters and plots start splitting off, dying off, and it becomes the Soap Opera of Westernos without a clear sense of why you still care of what actually happens to all these people. With a couple of notable exceptions, I just don't see what comes next as must-see tv or something that really holds onto the casual fanbase. Add in the logistics of holding onto a cast for X seasons and I just see this wrapping up in 2-3 seasons rather than the 4-9 that it would take to completely tell Martin's story.

I hear you. The story may veer off more and more. But I don't see them wrapping it up any time soon. Season 3 and 4 will still be riveting. They are the best portions of the story to date.

Agree. The last book was pretty awesome as well. Although the Danerys storyline just drags on and on until the last book.

Spoiler

She could free the slaves and just fast forward to where she is now. I agree. Dorne too. Who gives a #### about the leper dude or whatever and the Sand Snakes.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Well done for the season finale. There were a couple of necessary minor departures from the book, and one major one that may or may not matter in 3 or 4 seasons.You just knew they weren't gonna screw with Tyrions nose...the huge facial scar should work just as well. The changes to the house of the undying made sense given the dragon abduction addition...thought that was a nice resolution. Not sure why they didn't make it more clear that the ******* of Bolton was responsible for burning down Winterfell...that should be obvious, but clearly wasn't.

I took it as they were cutting out Bolton's ******* in the whole Winterfell scene. I am curious where Theon is though...I guess they took him home?

Home being back to Robb?

I guess I misunderstood the scene. It looked like they knocked him out and took him with them. I'm guessing they gave in to Robb's demands and gave him up.

 

[Guinis72]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.

ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

Yeah the wolf stuff is pretty cool.

 

[EYLive]

Did not read the books. In the show, did Eddard Stark make any mention of who Robb Snow's mother was? I am starting to think he might have a wildling mother.

There are a lot of interesting theories on the ID of his mother. Some of the research people have done scouring the 5 books for clues is crazy, but the best guess to Jon's mom...

Spoiler

... isn't even as shocking as who is real FATHER is. DUN DUN DUUUUUN!

 

[EYLive]

Yeah that's what happens. You get a huge following then the studio wants to finish it up ASAP.

By and large, Season 1 was much better than Season 2 imo. This is the point in the narrative where the story becomes very frayed. Characters and plots start splitting off, dying off, and it becomes the Soap Opera of Westernos without a clear sense of why you still care of what actually happens to all these people. With a couple of notable exceptions, I just don't see what comes next as must-see tv or something that really holds onto the casual fanbase. Add in the logistics of holding onto a cast for X seasons and I just see this wrapping up in 2-3 seasons rather than the 4-9 that it would take to completely tell Martin's story.

I hear you. The story may veer off more and more. But I don't see them wrapping it up any time soon. Season 3 and 4 will still be riveting. They are the best portions of the story to date.

Agree. The last book was pretty awesome as well. Although the Danerys storyline just drags on and on until the last book.

TBH, I skim Danaerys chapters. Ugh.

Spoiler

I can see the producers skipping Yunkai, but they need to show the events in Astapor and just condense the Mareen stuff. Viewers are going to get impatient about not getting to see the dragons in action.

 

[Guinis72]

Did not read the books. In the show, did Eddard Stark make any mention of who Robb Snow's mother was? I am starting to think he might have a wildling mother.

There are a lot of interesting theories on the ID of his mother. Some of the research people have done scouring the 5 books for clues is crazy, but the best guess to Jon's mom...

Spoiler

... isn't even as shocking as who is read FATHER is. DUN DUN DUUUUUN!

I read some of those theories online and was pretty shocked too. Then I got to the section of Book 1, when Ned is in the dungeon and thinking about Rob, and I think it's hard to debate. Good stuff.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Well done for the season finale. There were a couple of necessary minor departures from the book, and one major one that may or may not matter in 3 or 4 seasons.

You just knew they weren't gonna screw with Tyrions nose...the huge facial scar should work just as well. The changes to the house of the undying made sense given the dragon abduction addition...thought that was a nice resolution. Not sure why they didn't make it more clear that the ******* of Bolton was responsible for burning down Winterfell...that should be obvious, but clearly wasn't.

I took it as they were cutting out Bolton's ******* in the whole Winterfell scene. I am curious where Theon is though...I guess they took him home?

Home being back to Robb?

I guess I misunderstood the scene. It looked like they knocked him out and took him with them. I'm guessing they gave in to Robb's demands and gave him up.

That is what I took from the scene - particularly when one of the recap scenes at the start of the show was showing Robb's offer to let everyone go free if they turned Theon over. The sacking of Winterfell was a little clumsy, but I did assume that Bolton's ******* did the burning given that the crew from the Iron Islands seemed ready to leave after they knocked Theon out.I assume they simply did not want to have an obvious loose thread at the end of the season. Hard to show Stark Bannerman burning Winterfell with no follow-up imo.

Spoiler

I have not read that far, but understand there is dissension in the ranks for the Starks, and Robb will not survive the Red Wedding. I expect that these themes will be picked up next season, and we may hear a more about Winterfell then.

 

[Brady Marino]

Furthermore, may hottie Doreah rest in peace in the Land of Dead Minor Characters.

:tips40fordoreah:

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.

ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

Just as an aside, that's one of the reasons why the book Cujo is eleventy billion times better than the crappy movie they made out of it......it's written from inside the mind of dog slowly losing it to rabies. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

 

[Guinis72]

Just as an aside, that's one of the reasons why the book Cujo is eleventy billion times better than the crappy movie they made out of it......it's written from inside the mind of dog slowly losing it to rabies. Fascinating stuff.

That's pretty cool, I didn't realize that. I may have to read that after I get through my 1-2 yr backlog!

 

[Christo]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

If the next 2 seasons are going to be the 3rd book I'd have to take the over. The numbers this show is doing are pretty remarkable. The Soprano's made it to what, 10 seasons?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

If the next 2 seasons are going to be the 3rd book I'd have to take the over. The numbers this show is doing are pretty remarkable. The Soprano's made it to what, 10 seasons?

I believe 7 season, but the big actors on that show started to demand more money, and it took like 10 years to finish, and we all know the ending sucked. hopefully they signed this cast on for the entire length, but Im sure its tricky to do that, no one (IMO) outside of Peter D is irreplaceable.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

If the next 2 seasons are going to be the 3rd book I'd have to take the over. The numbers this show is doing are pretty remarkable. The Soprano's made it to what, 10 seasons?

HBO will continue to pump money into this show as long as it's profitable. Seems like this show has a large enough head of steam to go 4-6 more seasons.

 

[Christo]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

If the next 2 seasons are going to be the 3rd book I'd have to take the over. The numbers this show is doing are pretty remarkable. The Soprano's made it to what, 10 seasons?

You can't compare this to the Sopranos because Tony was the center of the Universe. There's no similar crucial character here. As a non-book guy, I really enjoyed the first season but the second season wasn't nearly as good. I assume it keeps bouncing around between the multiple story lines like it has. I just don't see it retaining its momentum as long as that's what happens.

 

[Foosball God]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

Tywin hates Tyrion for multiple reasons. The birth of Tyrion killed his mother (Tywin's wife), then to top it all off he is a dwarf. A laughing stock, which reflects poorly on House Lannister and most importantly Tywin himself.

 

[PIK95]

Anyone else think the tv series will end before the books?

GRRM is notorious for taking forever with the books, so the final books could end up like Rocky IV, where the show comes out first and then the books are based on it rather than vice versa.

According to this, the show creators are dreaming of turning Book 3 into 2 seasons but I'm just not sure how much patience a tv audience has for some of the sub-plots that happen after Book 2.

An awful lot happens in book three. I think books one and two were a real challenge to fit each into a single TV season, and book three would be a prohibitively greater challenge. It needs to be two seasons, IMO.

I'm thinking the O/U on seasons remaining is 2.5.

I'd set the O/U at 6 more seasons.

I'll take the under.

If the next 2 seasons are going to be the 3rd book I'd have to take the over. The numbers this show is doing are pretty remarkable. The Soprano's made it to what, 10 seasons?

You can't compare this to the Sopranos because Tony was the center of the Universe. There's no similar crucial character here. As a non-book guy, I really enjoyed the first season but the second season wasn't nearly as good. I assume it keeps bouncing around between the multiple story lines like it has. I just don't see it retaining its momentum as long as that's what happens.

I think Tyrion is the center of the Universe. I hope he is anyway.

 

[jamny]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.

ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

Just as an aside, that's one of the reasons why the book Cujo is eleventy billion times better than the crappy movie they made out of it......it's written from inside the mind of dog slowly losing it to rabies. Fascinating stuff.

I never knew the book had that angle. I've read a bunch of King's books but not Cujo. I'll have to check it out now.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.

ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

Just as an aside, that's one of the reasons why the book Cujo is eleventy billion times better than the crappy movie they made out of it......it's written from inside the mind of dog slowly losing it to rabies. Fascinating stuff.

Really? Never read Cujo. Might be a good little summer read on the deck book.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I'm currently reading Book 2 and love all the mentions of what the direwolves are doing. One of my favorite parts was when they drugged Bran, for a dreamless sleep, and he finds himself inside his wolf's mind, hearing his thoughts about how him and his brother (Shaggydog) are going crazy being locked up in Winterfell, need to run through the woods, kill some prey, etc. I especially like how crazy Rickon's direwolf Shaggydog is, although I don't remember them ever really focusing on it. I'm sure it's not essential to the big picture, but it is good reading.

ETA: I also like reading about Robb's wolf in battle, ripping people's arms off, and so many opposing soldiers getting bucked off from their horses when they freak out from the sight of the wolf.

I thoroughly enjoyed the finale, but haven't gotten that far in the book yet.

Just as an aside, that's one of the reasons why the book Cujo is eleventy billion times better than the crappy movie they made out of it......it's written from inside the mind of dog slowly losing it to rabies. Fascinating stuff.

Really? Never read Cujo. Might be a good little summer read on the deck book.

It's great. I can't even watch the film (not that many of his books had decent films made out of them anyway, but you know what I mean).

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah, didn't get the burning of Winterfell either.

CGI on the others at the end was pretty weak.

Other than that, I liked it. Gonna order the 2nd book now and read it.

 

[gump]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

Tywin hates Tyrion for multiple reasons. The birth of Tyrion killed his mother (Tywin's wife), then to top it all off he is a dwarf. A laughing stock, which reflects poorly on House Lannister and most importantly Tywin himself.

I knew the parts about killing the mother and basically being a disgrace to the family name as an imp....but I guess I thought Tywin might be a little more impressed with what Tyrion showed in battle.Maybe this is the case of a non-book-reader thinking Tywin had more of a good side in him than he really does....skewed by those scenes with Arya.

 

[Ilov80s]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

Tywin hates Tyrion for multiple reasons. The birth of Tyrion killed his mother (Tywin's wife), then to top it all off he is a dwarf. A laughing stock, which reflects poorly on House Lannister and most importantly Tywin himself.

I knew the parts about killing the mother and basically being a disgrace to the family name as an imp....but I guess I thought Tywin might be a little more impressed with what Tyrion showed in battle.Maybe this is the case of a non-book-reader thinking Tywin had more of a good side in him than he really does....skewed by those scenes with Arya.

What does Tywin even know about what Tyrion did? You think Cersei, Joffrey, or even Varys are singing the praises of the Imp? Quite the opposite, I am sure they are feeding him stories of how threw the Maestor out and backstabbed Littlefinger. Cersei was the one that had the wildfire made, I am sure she will take credit there. As far as Tywin knows, when he arrived Tyrion was wounded and the battle was very much in doubt.

 

[pantherclub]

What was Varys referring to about Littlefingers weakness?

 

[gump]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

Tywin hates Tyrion for multiple reasons. The birth of Tyrion killed his mother (Tywin's wife), then to top it all off he is a dwarf. A laughing stock, which reflects poorly on House Lannister and most importantly Tywin himself.

I knew the parts about killing the mother and basically being a disgrace to the family name as an imp....but I guess I thought Tywin might be a little more impressed with what Tyrion showed in battle.Maybe this is the case of a non-book-reader thinking Tywin had more of a good side in him than he really does....skewed by those scenes with Arya.

What does Tywin even know about what Tyrion did? You think Cersei, Joffrey, or even Varys are singing the praises of the Imp? Quite the opposite, I am sure they are feeding him stories of how threw the Maestor out and backstabbed Littlefinger. Cersei was the one that had the wildfire made, I am sure she will take credit there. As far as Tywin knows, when he arrived Tyrion was wounded and the battle was very much in doubt.

Well, that was my original question. But some other responses were more about Tywin's ego and hatred for Tyrion.Seems like it would be a big coverup to keep that from Tywin, but I guess not beyond what those 3 plus Littlefinger are capable of.

 

[gump]

What was Varys referring to about Littlefingers weakness?

Cat? Which we saw a little of when he offered to get Sansa out?

 

[Gr00vus]

What was Varys referring to about Littlefingers weakness?

He's actually got a few: ambition, money, inferiority complex (the last two are related to ambition)

Spoiler

and an obsession with Catelyn Tully/Stark

.

 

[Ilov80s]

So Varys hints that while the people in the city during the Blackwater battle will remember what Tyrion did....the people in charge (Tywin) will not.Shea wants Tyrion to leave to get away from the 'bad people' like Cersei and Tywin.So does Tywin know what Tyrion did at the battle?It seems like Tywin would be very impressed with his son....but either A) he doesn't know about it or B) his dislike of Tyrion overrides what he did on the battlefield.

Tywin hates Tyrion for multiple reasons. The birth of Tyrion killed his mother (Tywin's wife), then to top it all off he is a dwarf. A laughing stock, which reflects poorly on House Lannister and most importantly Tywin himself.

I knew the parts about killing the mother and basically being a disgrace to the family name as an imp....but I guess I thought Tywin might be a little more impressed with what Tyrion showed in battle.Maybe this is the case of a non-book-reader thinking Tywin had more of a good side in him than he really does....skewed by those scenes with Arya.

What does Tywin even know about what Tyrion did? You think Cersei, Joffrey, or even Varys are singing the praises of the Imp? Quite the opposite, I am sure they are feeding him stories of how threw the Maestor out and backstabbed Littlefinger. Cersei was the one that had the wildfire made, I am sure she will take credit there. As far as Tywin knows, when he arrived Tyrion was wounded and the battle was very much in doubt.

Well, that was my original question. But some other responses were more about Tywin's ego and hatred for Tyrion.Seems like it would be a big coverup to keep that from Tywin, but I guess not beyond what those 3 plus Littlefinger are capable of.

At the end of S1 he seemed to have earned his father's trust...enough to make him the acting Hand of the King. Maybe he made him Hand because he thought Tyrion was incapable and not a real threat to his position. Regardless, Tywin obviously didn't trust Tyrion to defend the city (rightly so), it won't be very difficult to write Tyrion out of the victory...what did Tyrion really do anyway? He launched the wildfire which Cersei had made. He planned some sneak attack which ended up with his men getting attacked from behind. He was deeply wounded and gramps and the flower knight had to save the day.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Regardless, Tywin obviously didn't trust Tyrion to defend the city (rightly so), it won't be very difficult to write Tyrion out of the victory...what did Tyrion really do anyway? He launched the wildfire which Cersei had made.

Cersei's plan was to launch jars of wildfire at Stannis's troops with catapults. As Bronn pointed out, some wildfire would have been thrown back over the wall in that case, and the city, or substantial parts of it, may have burned.Tyrion's much better idea was to send one boat out into the harbor leaking wildfire, and then light it all up from long distance with a flaming arrow.

He planned some sneak attack which ended up with his men getting attacked from behind.

He rallied and led the troops when Joffrey and the Hound would not, and the rest of the Lannister army inside the wall was ready to call it quits. Even if that didn't have a big effect on the outcome, it showed leadership that nobody else in the city could match.

 

[Gr00vus]

Regardless, Tywin obviously didn't trust Tyrion to defend the city (rightly so), it won't be very difficult to write Tyrion out of the victory...what did Tyrion really do anyway? He launched the wildfire which Cersei had made.

Cersei's plan was to launch jars of wildfire at Stannis's troops with catapults. As Bronn pointed out, some wildfire would have been thrown back over the wall in that case, and the city, or substantial parts of it, may have burned.Tyrion's much better idea was to send one boat out into the harbor leaking wildfire, and then light it all up from long distance with a flaming arrow.

He planned some sneak attack which ended up with his men getting attacked from behind.

He rallied and led the troops when Joffrey and the Hound would not, and the rest of the Lannister army inside the wall was ready to call it quits. Even if that didn't have a big effect on the outcome, it showed leadership that nobody else in the city could match.

This is one point where a character really got shortchanged in the show due to deviation from the books. The concept and execution of the chain sealing off the river (which Tyrion was solely responsible for) was a big deal in establishing his competency (and also had a symbolic connection to some later events). I think it was a mistake leaving it out of the show.

 

[PIK95]

I agree with Groovus about the chain.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree with Groovus about the chain.

Yeah.