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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (7 Viewers)

Having rewatched the first two seasons over the last week or so really have me an appreciation for the show. I remember during season 2 being frustrated with diversions from the book. Now, with the books not so fresh in my mind, season 2 really was solid. Especially its final few episodes. Last night was a near perfect introduction and picked up stories nicely. I enjoyed the longer scenes and was relieved they didn't try to stick every character into the episode. I had no issue with how Davos was handled. I'm also glad Selmy was revealed already. I wondered how the audience was supposed to not know it was him for multiple seasons. Strong Belwas was a fun character to read, but he is wholely unnecessary.

 
I think its better to not watch this and compare it to the books. I'm glad its been a while since I was them now and I can just appreciate the visuals and the story.

 
Bumping this back up 'cause the show-exclusive thread droolz. :hophead: The pacing was much, much better in this episode, compared to season 2. Less rushing through the story, less silly lines. Solid acting all around. Daenerys' eyebrows are crazy distracting. No idea why they couldn't just bleach those bad boys. Mance looks nothing like I pictured him, but dude's a solid actor, so whatever. Seeing Barristan again was awesome, and that was a great intro to the Unsullied. Loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene. The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
I have to disagree on the rushing. Barristan was basically truncated and so was Davos. Those are two very good characters.
I love both characters, but those changes didn't feel rushed, if that makes sense. What they cut out wasn't essential at all.The only bit they changed that bugged me was The reasoning Jon used to convince Mance. Total missed opportunity.
I thought this was better than Martin had originally written it.

 
The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
Agreed and hope they don't do that.

If I don't get at least 5 "HAR"s out of Giantsbane, I'll be pissed.

 
The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
Agreed and hope they don't do that.

If I don't get at least 5 "HAR"s out of Giantsbane, I'll be pissed.
Agreed. He and Strong Belwas are 2 of my favorite minor characters.

With so many story lines and characters I can kinda see them eliminating Belwas and having Dario do double duty in some important scenes.

 
Bumping this back up 'cause the show-exclusive thread droolz. :hophead: The pacing was much, much better in this episode, compared to season 2. Less rushing through the story, less silly lines. Solid acting all around. Daenerys' eyebrows are crazy distracting. No idea why they couldn't just bleach those bad boys. Mance looks nothing like I pictured him, but dude's a solid actor, so whatever. Seeing Barristan again was awesome, and that was a great intro to the Unsullied. Loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene. The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
agree on Mance not looking like what I pictured - I thought he'd be a little younger and more athletic. I also pictured Tormund as looking older and more widely built than the dude they cast for his part. The CGI giant looked great, though (dragons not so much). *next paragraph might contain semi-spoilers I'm wondering if maybe we see Belwas come in somewhere down the road, but I agree with whoever said upthread that he's not a huge loss. The only big things I can remember him doing are fighting Oznak zo Pahl and eating the locusts, and both those could be handled with another character.
 
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Bumping this back up 'cause the show-exclusive thread droolz. :hophead: The pacing was much, much better in this episode, compared to season 2. Less rushing through the story, less silly lines. Solid acting all around. Daenerys' eyebrows are crazy distracting. No idea why they couldn't just bleach those bad boys. Mance looks nothing like I pictured him, but dude's a solid actor, so whatever. Seeing Barristan again was awesome, and that was a great intro to the Unsullied. Loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene. The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
agree on Mance not looking like what I pictured - I thought he'd be a little younger and more athletic. I also pictured Tormund as looking older and more widely built than the dude they cast for his part. The CGI giant looked great, though (dragons not so much). *next paragraph might contain semi-spoilers I'm wondering if maybe we see Belwas come in somewhere down the road, but I agree with whoever said upthread that he's not a huge loss. The only big things I can remember him doing are fighting Oznak zo Pahl and eating the locusts, and both those could be handled with another character.
If I were to cast for Belwas, I'd get the guy that played Borat's manager. :lol:

 
The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
Agreed and hope they don't do that.

If I don't get at least 5 "HAR"s out of Giantsbane, I'll be pissed.
Agreed. He and Strong Belwas are 2 of my favorite minor characters.

With so many story lines and characters I can kinda see them eliminating Belwas and having Dario do double duty in some important scenes.
No love for Hot Pie?

 
I think its better to not watch this and compare it to the books. I'm glad its been a while since I was them now and I can just appreciate the visuals and the story.
I'm kind of wishing I didn't read the books and had no idea of the awesomeness around the corner. I enjoy reading but it's a little more difficult to elicit emotions literarily than it is with movies and their assault on the senses.

There's a lot of ways in which the detail of the books enhances the show though too.

 
I think its better to not watch this and compare it to the books. I'm glad its been a while since I was them now and I can just appreciate the visuals and the story.
I'm kind of wishing I didn't read the books and had no idea of the awesomeness around the corner. I enjoy reading but it's a little more difficult to elicit emotions literarily than it is with movies and their assault on the senses.

There's a lot of ways in which the detail of the books enhances the show though too.
Yeah, I enjoyed reading the first book after Season 1 but have held off going much further as I've heard the show isn't following as closely. I prefer to be surprised and then go back for more detail. Can't wait for this season with all the hype from the book geeks.

 
I think its better to not watch this and compare it to the books. I'm glad its been a while since I was them now and I can just appreciate the visuals and the story.
I'm kind of wishing I didn't read the books and had no idea of the awesomeness around the corner. I enjoy reading but it's a little more difficult to elicit emotions literarily than it is with movies and their assault on the senses.

There's a lot of ways in which the detail of the books enhances the show though too.
Yeah, I enjoyed reading the first book after Season 1 but have held off going much further as I've heard the show isn't following as closely. I prefer to be surprised and then go back for more detail. Can't wait for this season with all the hype from the book geeks.
Wish I had done it like that. I was all amped after how last season ended and read all the books over the summer. It was gratifying, but I find myself feeling envious of the nonreaders who have no idea of what's about to happen.

 
Sabertooth said:
Abrantes said:
Bumping this back up 'cause the show-exclusive thread droolz. :hophead:

The pacing was much, much better in this episode, compared to season 2. Less rushing through the story, less silly lines. Solid acting all around.

Daenerys' eyebrows are crazy distracting. No idea why they couldn't just bleach those bad boys.

Mance looks nothing like I pictured him, but dude's a solid actor, so whatever. Seeing Barristan again was awesome, and that was a great intro to the Unsullied. Loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene.

The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
I have to disagree on the rushing. Barristan was basically truncated and so was Davos. Those are two very good characters.
What of Davos was truncated? Days of introspection spent on the island and in his cell? Wouldn't make for riveting television.

 
Do the Lannisters know about Daenerys?
Good question. Do the Lannisters know about her?

Also, who is the true King/Queen of the throne?
1. Yes. Robert tried to have her poisoned in Season 1

2. Depends on who you ask
Wasn't that kind of on the down low or was it common knowledge that there was a bloodline heir alive?
It was discussed at the small council, so Varys, Littlefinger, Pycell, etc knew

Now I don't specifically recall if Cersei, Tyrion or Tywin have mentioned her, but I find it hard to believe with all those people knowing that it would remain a secret

 
Do the Lannisters know about Daenerys?
Good question. Do the Lannisters know about her? Also, who is the true King/Queen of the throne?
1. Yes. Robert tried to have her poisoned in Season 1 2. Depends on who you ask
Wasn't that kind of on the down low or was it common knowledge that there was a bloodline heir alive?
It was discussed at the small council, so Varys, Littlefinger, Pycell, etc knew Now I don't specifically recall if Cersei, Tyrion or Tywin have mentioned her, but I find it hard to believe with all those people knowing that it would remain a secret
On the eve of the blackwater, Varys specifically told Tyrion that Dany was still alive and had dragons.
 
Do the Lannisters know about Daenerys?
Good question. Do the Lannisters know about her?

Also, who is the true King/Queen of the throne?
1. Yes. Robert tried to have her poisoned in Season 1

2. Depends on who you ask
It has always seemed to me to be common knowledge that these 2 kids survived and fled when Robert and Ned killed all their relatives. So much of S1 was about the concern that the Dothraki were going to invade with a Targaryan blood line. By now, I am sure it is known that the creepy Targaryan brother is dead, Khaleesi's kid died and the Khaleesi is MIA.

 
Possum said:
Abrantes said:
Bumping this back up 'cause the show-exclusive thread droolz. :hophead: The pacing was much, much better in this episode, compared to season 2. Less rushing through the story, less silly lines. Solid acting all around. Daenerys' eyebrows are crazy distracting. No idea why they couldn't just bleach those bad boys. Mance looks nothing like I pictured him, but dude's a solid actor, so whatever. Seeing Barristan again was awesome, and that was a great intro to the Unsullied. Loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene. The lack of Strong Belwas is a bummer. A friend of mine raised the harrowing possibility of having them merge Belwas and Daario into one character. :thumbdown:
agree on Mance not looking like what I pictured - I thought he'd be a little younger and more athletic. I also pictured Tormund as looking older and more widely built than the dude they cast for his part. The CGI giant looked great, though (dragons not so much). *next paragraph might contain semi-spoilers I'm wondering if maybe we see Belwas come in somewhere down the road, but I agree with whoever said upthread that he's not a huge loss. The only big things I can remember him doing are fighting Oznak zo Pahl and eating the locusts, and both those could be handled with another character.
Dominic West apparently turned down the role of Mance Rayder. How awesome would that have been?

 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
Speaking of

I'm about to finish ADWD and him being alive was not really a socker to me. Anyone else see this coming?
Some people out there think "baby Aegon" in ADWD is actually an imposter/Blackfyre pretender.

Have you heard of GRRM's novellas in the Tales of Dunk & Egg series?
 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
I have not read the books, but I am assuming Jon Snow has an interesting backstory. I wouldn't be surprised he had a Targaryan bloodline. We know how Ned feels about honor, self-sacrifice, and child murder. Jon could be half Targaryan and Ned protected him with this ******* story. Also, it is a story with dragons, giants, and ###### assasins, no reason Khaleesi couldn't still get pregnant in the future.

 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
I have not read the books, but I am assuming Jon Snow has an interesting backstory. I wouldn't be surprised he had a Targaryan bloodline. We know how Ned feels about honor, self-sacrifice, and child murder. Jon could be half Targaryan and Ned protected him with this ******* story.
I tend to subscribe to the theory that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are his parents.

 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
Speaking of

I'm about to finish ADWD and him being alive was not really a socker to me. Anyone else see this coming?
Some people out there think "baby Aegon" in ADWD is actually an imposter/Blackfyre pretender.

Have you heard of GRRM's novellas in the Tales of Dunk & Egg series?
No I havent--I dont know that I'll read them if theyre 1000+ pages. Do they make mention of this in the series?

 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
I have not read the books, but I am assuming Jon Snow has an interesting backstory. I wouldn't be surprised he had a Targaryan bloodline. We know how Ned feels about honor, self-sacrifice, and child murder. Jon could be half Targaryan and Ned protected him with this ******* story.
I tend to subscribe to the theory that Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are his parents.
It makes sense even as someone that hasn't read the books. It fits in with the plot so far that the main heroes would be 2 family members, one born out of rape and the other out of incest.

ETA: Since the story isn't done and has spanned over so many years, I wonder if the conspiracy theories impact Martin's handling of the final books. Does the fact that so many people think this to be true make him more or less likely to actually write it that way whether he intended it or didn't?

 
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ETA: Since the story isn't done and has spanned over so many years, I wonder if the conspiracy theories impact Martin's handling of the final books. Does the fact that so many people think this to be true make him more or less likely to actually write it that way whether he intended it or didn't?
Hopefully he has an outline of this somewhere in case he pulls a Robert Jordan.
 
Yeah, I think Martin has gotten a bit drunk on his fame. I also think he's going to suffer from the same thing LOST suffered from. Just too many arcs to tie up. He'll leave many of them open ended because his meandering style in the past two books have just opened up too many cans of worms.

 
So what happens even if Dany reclaims the throne? Surely she will grow old and die. And she is barren so there is no heir.
Aegon Targaryen maybe.
Speaking of

I'm about to finish ADWD and him being alive was not really a socker to me. Anyone else see this coming?
Some people out there think "baby Aegon" in ADWD is actually an imposter/Blackfyre pretender.

Have you heard of GRRM's novellas in the Tales of Dunk & Egg series?
Are they saying Connington is in on the scam?

 
Someone said in the other thread that the beginning of this episode was supposed to be after the attack on The Fist. This doesn't make any sense.

 
:goodposting: Eyelive. I'm amazed at how well I remember the characters and general storylines though.
 
I can't remember the final episode from S2 and did not see it in this episode. Did they show Sam kill a Whitewalker (or even bring up) with the Dragonglass?

 
My theory on the future of Jon Snow

I apologize if this theory has already been floated, but I have recently reread the series and picked up a lot of things that I missed the first time through. I've also come to some interesting theories of what I think will be in store in the future books. The first one I'd like to discuss is "Is Jon Snow dead?"My first assumption is that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Making him Fire and Ice, part wolf, part dragon.My second assumption, or assertion, is that he is a warg. I think we know that for certain, although his skill at it is not refined, it seems to improve as the stories progress.At the start of DOTD, the epilogue is the story of what fate befalls Varamyr Sixskins. When I first read it, I thought "Who cares about what happened to that guy?" But, on rereading, it gives us much info on what it is to be a warg. Particularly, what happens to your "soul" as a warg when your human body dies. When a warg dies his final death, his "soul" jumps to a nearby life form and takes over that body. It happened with the wildling that Jon killed on the pass when he met Ygritte. That guy became the eagle that attacked Jon. It happend to Varamyr, who jumps to the body of one of his wolves.Ice dragons. What do we know about ice dragons? Little and less. But, throughout the stories, ice dragons are mentioned a few times, especially later on. There's a constellation of stars known as the Ice Dragon. And there are a few times that Jon mentions ice dragons in descriptions of things, usually the cold. I recall he was walking through the tunnel of the wall and he described it as being as cold as walking down the gullet of an ice dragon. And another time he described the wind and being as cold as the breath of an ice dragon from Old Nan's stories. So, I assume that there must have been ice dragons in the world at one time, and they were cold natured with cold breath.The Wall. What do we know of the Wall? Again, not a lot, particularly on HOW it was built. We know Bran the Builder built it, but how in the heck would you build a 600 ft tall wall that stretches for miles??? Perhaps if you had a flying beast whose breath could freeze things it could be done..... We do know that the Wall is powerful. It has spells and such built into it. Coldhands can't pass the wall. Melisandre tells Jon that the wall has power, and she seems to have her finger on the pulse of the magic realm.

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost", he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold...
That's the last we hear about Jon. Very interesting paragraph. "...the wound was smoking..." Where have we seen wounds smoking? Dany's dragons."He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold..." Could that be because his "soul" has already made the jump? If so, where did it land? Ghost would be the most logical choice, but why would Ghost feel cold? When we last saw Ghost he was locked up in Jon's quarters to keep him from fighting with the warg's boar. So what would feel cold?My theory is that Jon's warg "soul" jumped and his Targaryen blood sensed an ice dragon that is frozen inside the wall and lead the "soul" there. That's why Jon feels cold.
I JUST finished the books last night and decided to go back and read all of the spoilers I passed on before.

I was THIS to happen more then anything I've seen or read!!! This would be amazing!

 
Someone said in the other thread that the beginning of this episode was supposed to be after the attack on The Fist. This doesn't make any sense.
The Season 2 finale ended with Sam, Grenn, and Edd collecting fire ####. Then the horns blast, once, twice, and then three times indicating White Walkers were coming. It was the Watchmen at the Fist blowing the horns obviously. Grenn and Edd head back to the fist to regroup with the others. Sam either falls or just is scared and cowers behind a rock as the White Walkers and wights pass him by. They may or may not have seen him, but they do not attack him. Fade to black. Season 3 opening: black screen with sounds of screams, swords, animals, and battle, then nothing. The battle is pretty much over and we didn't see anything likely due to budget restraints. Sam is now running towards the Fist. The Old Bear saves Sam and we see a bunch of tattered Watchmen, but nowhere near as many as had traveled beyond the Wall. Now they are journeying back to the wall in order to warn the realm and other Watchmen. Sam was a coward who hid during the battle, rather than trying to reach the Fist in order to send ravens. I suspect we will see the dragonglass scene later as a redemption for Sam's cowardice.

 
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Someone said in the other thread that the beginning of this episode was supposed to be after the attack on The Fist. This doesn't make any sense.
The Season 2 finale ended with Sam, Grenn, and Edd collecting fire ####. Then the horns blast, once, twice, and then three times indicating White Walkers were coming. It was the Watchmen at the Fist blowing the horns obviously. Grenn and Edd head back to the fist to regroup with the others. Sam either falls or just is scared and cowers behind a rock as the White Walkers and wights pass him by. They may or may not have seen him, but they do not attack him. Fade to black. Season 3 opening: black screen with sounds of screams, swords, animals, and battle, then nothing. The battle is pretty much over and we didn't see anything likely due to budget restraints. Sam is now running towards the Fist. The Old Bear saves Sam and we see a bunch of tattered Watchmen, but nowhere near as many as had traveled beyond the Wall. Now they are journeying back to the wall in order to warn the realm and other Watchmen. Sam was a coward who hid during the battle, rather than trying to reach the Fist in order to send ravens. I suspect we will see the dragonglass scene later as a redemption for Sam's cowardice.
This is starting to annoy me with this show. A big part of the appeal to a great fantasy series are these big, epic, brutal battles. Most of these fights in the books entailed thousands of men. The TV show battles are relegated to a couple of hundred dudes on a much smaller scale. It really detracts from the gigantic epicness of these wars.

I'm not a moviemakingguy, but I can conceptualize a budget. This series has got rankings through the roof. Isn't it making enough ######## money to start showing some really big battles? Can't some CGI mixed with a bunch of extras take care of this? Or is all the cash going to pay the various strippers to flash teh goods in each episode (which I'm okay with, too).

The battle at the Fist is more confounding. We were talking about, what 100-200 Crows? Nothing huge. The battle in the book was a brutal fight and contained a huge turning point for the Crows and Sam. Why not show it?

 
The pirate guy helping Davos (forget his name) - is that the guy who plays Morgan in the Walking Dead and was also in Snatch?

 
I can't remember the final episode from S2 and did not see it in this episode. Did they show Sam kill a Whitewalker (or even bring up) with the Dragonglass?
I don't think so.
there seems to be a departure from the book going on here. Interested in where the change is headed.
IIRC Sam kills an Other (not just a lowly whitewalker) with obsidion on the march back from the Fist/Crasters. So that should happen in the next few episodes of the show I figure.
They did find dragonglass, which Sam identified in a previous episode. It was a brief scene where Gren dug it up from under a stone marked by the first men.

 
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