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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
They say the gods flip a coin to determine whether a Targaryan is going to be mad or brilliant. Some other Targs ate wildfire etc. Plenty of crazies with purple eyes.
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I enjoy her chapters immensely, but I agree that she seems too far away from the main conflict to come into play with her new skills.
Y'all are nuts. She's becoming a super-assassin. Easy to see her getting involved again at some point...knocking off other "key" characters left and right!
Arya is my favorite POV - in a non-homer kind of way.
When she entered the faceless men world she gave up her "rights" as a stark - so she won't really play a direct role in that game of thrones going forward. She presumably will be fully trained enough to also eliminate revenge from her vocabulary. So, other than carrying out silent assassinations, I am not sure that she will play a big role.Sansa or Rickon will represent the StarksStannis (Gendry?)- BaratheonDaenerys - TargaryenTommen - LannisterI think that the reaction to Arya's TV character may drive a more significant story plot in the future books - I am looking forward to her future with the faceless men and whatever gifts she may bestow.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think you mean Jon's lineage. Also, Arya is
holding on to her identity despite what the faceless man has said or done. She's using him.
EYLive
Footballguy
I think you mean Jon's lineage.Also, Arya is
holding on to her identity despite what the faceless man has said or done. She's using him.
I predict Arya winds up being Lord commander of the white cloaks for Jon and Dany... or becomes a succesful pirate 
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
I think you mean Jon's lineage.Also, Arya is holding on to her identity despite what the faceless man has said or done. She's using him.
I predict Arya winds up being Lord commander of the white cloaks for Jon and Dany... or becomes a succesful pirate
And I believe she gets captured and escapes a few more times imo.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I think you mean Jon's lineage.Also, Arya is
holding on to her identity despite what the faceless man has said or done. She's using him.
I think you mean Jon's lineage. Also, Arya is
holding on to her identity despite what the faceless man has said or done. She's using him.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I've been touting to my friends all year that this season of Thrones may go down as one of the best seasons of tv period. It's still on track for that, but I've been thinking that next season may be even better. Based on
the red wedding happening late this season, there isn't time for joffrey's wedding. If the show stays true to next season bring the second half of Swords, Joffrey will meet his demise relatively early. Like episode 3. This will be a huge event to happen so early. Then we have Arya traveling with the hound and he meeting his demise. Dany continuing to rampage and then settle and rule. Tyrion being locked away, meeting the red viper, the trial by combat, and a finale with Tywin biting the dust? That's a lot of main characters dying off in just 10 episodes. Not to mention everything at the wall?!? Action packed season 4 is coming!
Martin is going to have to write some new material relatively soon, because the series will have just about caught up at that point.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Martin is going to have to write some new material relatively soon, because the series will have just about caught up at that point.Well I think Crows and Dragons will be done chronologically and that they will get 3 seasons, if not 4, out of the 2 books.
EYLive
Footballguy
The Tyrion/Sansa marriage should make for some good scenes. Those were dry moments in the book, but I think it'll come across as comedic on screen.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Given all the people who have wronged the Starks over the first five books, I'm pretty sure Martin can find a way to get a Stark/master assassin on a boat back to westeros and involved in the main conflict.
Yah, I love Arya's PoVs, and look forward to her storyline. One of the really interesting things about the way these books are written is that different people like and identify with different characters, more so that in "traditional" books that aren't written from a PoV perspective.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Martin is going to have to write some new material relatively soon, because the series will have just about caught up at that point.the show is going to pass the books
Mister Martie
Footballguy
Martin is going to have to write some new material relatively soon, because the series will have just about caught up at that point.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
The whole age thing and Arya being too old for her part was discussed many pages ago. Dany in the show is played by a 25 year old but in the books she is 16. I believe Robb is also supposed to be 16ish from the books but he is much older in the show. I don't see any changing of actors.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Well I think Crows and Dragons will be done chronologically and that they will get 3 seasons, if not 4, out of the 2 books.
Mister Martie
Footballguy
I'm not seeing it. I think they are going to (rightly) cut out a lot from those two books. If they make those books into 4 seasons, the show is getting canceled.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I'm not seeing it. I think they are going to (rightly) cut out a lot from those two books. If they make those books into 4 seasons, the show is getting canceled.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Disagree. I think those books get a bad rep because of the wait time in between and wanting the story to pay off. Crows is great.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Well, 2.5 seasons in, it's already amongst the top 10 greatest TV shows ever. So your prediction seems plausible.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Was losing the Karstarks the reason for returning to the Freys in the books? I love how there was swelling, triumphant music rising when Robb was laying out his plan to go to the Freys and recruit them and SMASH the Lannisters in their own house. Perfectly setting everyone up for the RW. I think they have to let everyone stew about Joffrey's apparent victory over the off season though. No way they can kill him this season, IMO.
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Mister Martie
Footballguy
I'm reading through Swords again and came to the part before the Red Wedding where Robb legitimizes Jon and names him heir. He has his lords fix their seals to the document as witness to his decision. The Red Wedding happens right after, but it is possible that document survives. I wonder if anything will come from that in the future...
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I am a late bloomer - I started reading the books after seeing the 1st season.The Gator said:
I think the problem for me was a combination of how much crap went down in book 3 and loving that one so much combined with book 4 not having characters I liked and focusing on areas I wasn't overly interested in - Iron Islands and Dorne. Started reading 5, but lost steam. I already had started losing track of what was happening to the characters who weren't in book 4. I am currently about 800pgs into book 3 and picking up on a lot more details, so hopefully I will have more success on the 2nd go through and when I get to Dragons again.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
mad sweeney said:
I think that was some of the reason of going back to the Freys, but I felt as though they focuses on it more for the show and spelled it out a little more. Either format, the Freys are about the only house left that hadn't pledged a side but have a crapload of soldiers.
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
Mister Martie
Footballguy
I was an early reader and waited for both Crows and Dragons but I have since done a couple of rereads straight through. My beefs:The Gator said:
Up until Crows, the plot was fast moving and exciting. Crows was like putting two feet on the brake. There are huge portions of those books which would have been better off omitted or signifigantly truncated. We have Brienne looking for Sansa when the reader knows where Sansa is and knows Brienne isn't going to find her. We have the Martell fool's errand which predictably ends in disaster and doesn't move the plot. Finally, Dany is basically in the exact same position she was at the end of Swords until the last 50 pages of Dragons. They aren't terrible books, but instead of two 1000 page books, it should have been one 1200 page book. I feel like this was easier to get away with in print than it will be on the show. Do you think non-book readers are going to keep interest in the show if the next 4 seasons Dany just sits around? I don't see it.
The Gator
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into 
I think that was some of the reason of going back to the Freys, but I felt as though they focuses on it more for the show and spelled it out a little more. Either format, the Freys are about the only house left that hadn't pledged a side but have a crapload of soldiers.
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
IIRC, in the book Robb decides to retreat back to the North to retake Winterfell and the other places siezed by the iron-born. Basically to get his house back in order, because losing your seat of power is a major political blow (the King Who Lost the North) and being spread out too far in the Westerlands & Riverlands would get them wiped out once Stannis was defeated & the Lannisters/Tyrell's joined forces. In order to retreat North he has to go back thru the Frey's territory so he has to get them back on his side. Contributing factors are because of the Karstark defection but mainly Edmure Tully's screwups.
They changed it in the show, but it wasn't the Mountain that Robb was trying to lure West and surround to kill, it was Tywin himself. Robb actually was already on his way to Casterly Rock and had won resounding victories in Tywin's home territory which was to draw Tywin either away from King's Landing (to make it ripe for the Baretheon's to attack) or to force Tywin to give up Casterly Rock (which would have been a major political and financial blow.) Edmure going against orders delayed Tywin's advance enough that he got word of the attack on King's Landing and was able to turn around and escape, meet up with the Tyrell's and stop Stannis from taking King's Landing. Had Edmure not delayed Tywin, King's Landing would have fallen to the Baratheon's, Tywin would have been surrounded and likely wiped out and the war would have been over for the Lannisters. They also left out in the show that Edmure had a 2nd major blunder which was he dispersed all of the Riverlands bannermen/forces so they could go back and retake their personal seats of power. So the troops were all spread across the burned up, war-ruined countryside instead of gathered into an organized fighting force.
They changed it in the show, but it wasn't the Mountain that Robb was trying to lure West and surround to kill, it was Tywin himself. Robb actually was already on his way to Casterly Rock and had won resounding victories in Tywin's home territory which was to draw Tywin either away from King's Landing (to make it ripe for the Baretheon's to attack) or to force Tywin to give up Casterly Rock (which would have been a major political and financial blow.) Edmure going against orders delayed Tywin's advance enough that he got word of the attack on King's Landing and was able to turn around and escape, meet up with the Tyrell's and stop Stannis from taking King's Landing. Had Edmure not delayed Tywin, King's Landing would have fallen to the Baratheon's, Tywin would have been surrounded and likely wiped out and the war would have been over for the Lannisters. They also left out in the show that Edmure had a 2nd major blunder which was he dispersed all of the Riverlands bannermen/forces so they could go back and retake their personal seats of power. So the troops were all spread across the burned up, war-ruined countryside instead of gathered into an organized fighting force.
Mile High
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
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Mjolnirs
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
edited because quoting on the new site is a pain.
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encaitar
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
This is my biggest contention with those two books as well. What really happens during the time line of those two books? Nothing. The only plot line even advancing is the north. Bran's continued education and Jon and Stannis at the wall/attacking Bolton is the only thing moving the plot forward. Arya, Dany, Cersei and Marge, Littlefinger and Sansa, Martells, etc. are all pretty stagnant throughout both books. The last half of ADWD we see everything set up to move fast in the next book, but otherwise it was just Martin putting words to a page to appease his readers. I really wish he would've just stuck with the 5 years gap he originally planned after Swords.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
This is my biggest contention with those two books as well. What really happens during the time line of those two books? Nothing. The only plot line even advancing is the north. Bran's continued education and Jon and Stannis at the wall/attacking Bolton is the only thing moving the plot forward. Arya, Dany, Cersei and Marge, Littlefinger and Sansa, Martells, etc. are all pretty stagnant throughout both books. The last half of ADWD we see everything set up to move fast in the next book, but otherwise it was just Martin putting words to a page to appease his readers. I really wish he would've just stuck with the 5 years gap he originally planned after Swords.
Quite a bit happens.
Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.
The Faith are rearmed.
Arya begins her training.
Tyrion gets an army.
Dany tries to rule.
Jaime becomes more like Tywin
Sansa becomes more of a savvy player.
There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.
Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells.
The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.
The Faith are rearmed.
Arya begins her training.
Tyrion gets an army.
Dany tries to rule.
Jaime becomes more like Tywin
Sansa becomes more of a savvy player.
There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.
Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells.
The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The writers have taken liberties with Dany's story before and I anticipate that will be the case in seasons 5+
Clifford
Footballguy
pantherclub said:
Seems like the free cities are more the arena of action than Westeros in DOD. I think she will return to reclaim the throne of House Stark rather than Bran or Rickon. I see her in a Bloddy Mary type role, most likely taking up cause with Danaerys once she finally gets off her ### and returns to Westeros to claim her throne.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Because she's the only one with a POV in all five books.pantherclub said:
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
This is my biggest contention with those two books as well. What really happens during the time line of those two books? Nothing. The only plot line even advancing is the north. Bran's continued education and Jon and Stannis at the wall/attacking Bolton is the only thing moving the plot forward. Arya, Dany, Cersei and Marge, Littlefinger and Sansa, Martells, etc. are all pretty stagnant throughout both books. The last half of ADWD we see everything set up to move fast in the next book, but otherwise it was just Martin putting words to a page to appease his readers. I really wish he would've just stuck with the 5 years gap he originally planned after Swords.
Quite a bit happens.Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.The Faith are rearmed.Arya begins her training.Tyrion gets an army.Dany tries to rule.Jaime becomes more like TywinSansa becomes more of a savvy player.There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells. The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I think that was some of the reason of going back to the Freys, but I felt as though they focuses on it more for the show and spelled it out a little more. Either format, the Freys are about the only house left that hadn't pledged a side but have a crapload of soldiers.
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
I figured Coldheart (whatever they call it) would be the final image of the season, giving it a few eps to sink in before jumping there, but with only 1 ep after it, I am not so sure now.
Last night I realized that Neil Marshall, who's directed some decent but not great horror-type thrillers with some pretty hot badass wimmins directed the Blackwater episode. He did Descent, Doomsday with Rhona Mitra, Centurion with Olga Kurylenko as a badass Pict warrior. I'd like to see him do more, but it doesn't look like he's got one this season. Then again he is working on a new TV show called Black Sails, about the pirates from Treasure Island prior to the book.
Seems like the free cities are more the arena of action than Westeros in DOD. I think she will return to reclaim the throne of House Stark rather than Bran or Rickon. I see her in a Bloddy Mary type role, most likely taking up cause with Danaerys once she finally gets off her ### and returns to Westeros to claim her throne.
I can see this. They make a bunch of references to Nymeria in Arya's storyline - wasn't she a joan of arc style female conqueror or something in the GOT universe? I'm sure there will be some parallels developed there.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I think that was some of the reason of going back to the Freys, but I felt as though they focuses on it more for the show and spelled it out a little more. Either format, the Freys are about the only house left that hadn't pledged a side but have a crapload of soldiers.
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
As I am reading through book 3 again, I think you are right. Based on episode 9s in the past couple seasons, I would bet that is the Red Wedding and episode 10 will be King's Landing, Stannis, etc.. getting the news and set up for season 4. Joffrey will probably happen in the first few episodes, and we go from there and end with Tywin getting it and Tyrion on the lamb at the end of the season?
IIRC, in the book Robb decides to retreat back to the North to retake Winterfell and the other places siezed by the iron-born. Basically to get his house back in order, because losing your seat of power is a major political blow (the King Who Lost the North) and being spread out too far in the Westerlands & Riverlands would get them wiped out once Stannis was defeated & the Lannisters/Tyrell's joined forces. In order to retreat North he has to go back thru the Frey's territory so he has to get them back on his side. Contributing factors are because of the Karstark defection but mainly Edmure Tully's screwups.
They changed it in the show, but it wasn't the Mountain that Robb was trying to lure West and surround to kill, it was Tywin himself. Robb actually was already on his way to Casterly Rock and had won resounding victories in Tywin's home territory which was to draw Tywin either away from King's Landing (to make it ripe for the Baretheon's to attack) or to force Tywin to give up Casterly Rock (which would have been a major political and financial blow.) Edmure going against orders delayed Tywin's advance enough that he got word of the attack on King's Landing and was able to turn around and escape, meet up with the Tyrell's and stop Stannis from taking King's Landing. Had Edmure not delayed Tywin, King's Landing would have fallen to the Baratheon's, Tywin would have been surrounded and likely wiped out and the war would have been over for the Lannisters. They also left out in the show that Edmure had a 2nd major blunder which was he dispersed all of the Riverlands bannermen/forces so they could go back and retake their personal seats of power. So the troops were all spread across the burned up, war-ruined countryside instead of gathered into an organized fighting force.
They changed it in the show, but it wasn't the Mountain that Robb was trying to lure West and surround to kill, it was Tywin himself. Robb actually was already on his way to Casterly Rock and had won resounding victories in Tywin's home territory which was to draw Tywin either away from King's Landing (to make it ripe for the Baretheon's to attack) or to force Tywin to give up Casterly Rock (which would have been a major political and financial blow.) Edmure going against orders delayed Tywin's advance enough that he got word of the attack on King's Landing and was able to turn around and escape, meet up with the Tyrell's and stop Stannis from taking King's Landing. Had Edmure not delayed Tywin, King's Landing would have fallen to the Baratheon's, Tywin would have been surrounded and likely wiped out and the war would have been over for the Lannisters. They also left out in the show that Edmure had a 2nd major blunder which was he dispersed all of the Riverlands bannermen/forces so they could go back and retake their personal seats of power. So the troops were all spread across the burned up, war-ruined countryside instead of gathered into an organized fighting force.
EYLive
Footballguy
I think they will condense all the
marriage proposals and slave freeing drama that goes nowhere.
encaitar
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
This is my biggest contention with those two books as well. What really happens during the time line of those two books? Nothing. The only plot line even advancing is the north. Bran's continued education and Jon and Stannis at the wall/attacking Bolton is the only thing moving the plot forward. Arya, Dany, Cersei and Marge, Littlefinger and Sansa, Martells, etc. are all pretty stagnant throughout both books. The last half of ADWD we see everything set up to move fast in the next book, but otherwise it was just Martin putting words to a page to appease his readers. I really wish he would've just stuck with the 5 years gap he originally planned after Swords.
Quite a bit happens.
Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.
The Faith are rearmed.
Arya begins her training.
Tyrion gets an army.
Dany tries to rule.
Jaime becomes more like Tywin
Sansa becomes more of a savvy player.
There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.
Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells.
The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.
The Faith are rearmed.
Arya begins her training.
Tyrion gets an army.
Dany tries to rule.
Jaime becomes more like Tywin
Sansa becomes more of a savvy player.
There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.
Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells.
The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
If all of that happened in 1 book, it would've been a great read. And it still would've been less than what happened in Swords. Don't get me wrong, I love the series. Still is my favorite series of all time, but the last 2 books were much slower than the first 3.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Crows and dragons are no slower than Kings. I'd argue that but for the Blackwater chapters and some cool #### in the house of the undying (which was cut from the show) Kings is worse than them both.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
They're going to throw a fit when "OMG she has an awesome army and DRAGONS" turns into
This is my biggest contention with those two books as well. What really happens during the time line of those two books? Nothing. The only plot line even advancing is the north. Bran's continued education and Jon and Stannis at the wall/attacking Bolton is the only thing moving the plot forward. Arya, Dany, Cersei and Marge, Littlefinger and Sansa, Martells, etc. are all pretty stagnant throughout both books. The last half of ADWD we see everything set up to move fast in the next book, but otherwise it was just Martin putting words to a page to appease his readers. I really wish he would've just stuck with the 5 years gap he originally planned after Swords.
Quite a bit happens.Cersei and Margaery are imprisoned.The Faith are rearmed.Arya begins her training.Tyrion gets an army.Dany tries to rule.Jaime becomes more like TywinSansa becomes more of a savvy player.There may be another claim to the throne by a Targaryen.Dany will have support in Westeros by the Martells. The only plot thread that really didn't have anything important happen was Brienne's. She may or may not kill/capture Jaime.
If all of that happened in 1 book, it would've been a great read. And it still would've been less than what happened in Swords. Don't get me wrong, I love the series. Still is my favorite series of all time, but the last 2 books were much slower than the first 3.
I think the potential problem with the TV seasons of books 4 and 5 are that:
there's such an overhaul of the characters that have more or less driven the narrative of the first three seasons. Losing Tywin, Tyrion, Robb, Cat, Joffery...that's a lot. Tommen ain't exactly going to cut it as a good TV character. Same with the group Cat leads. You're pushing major TV time to people such as Bolton, Stannis, Sam, Brienne and the Martells.......that's a lot for a TV viewership to accept.At the very least; Tyrion isn't going to dissappear for an entire television season; they'll blend and expand his storyline so that its less of a shock to the casual viewer when just about everyone they've grown accustomed to seeing is gone
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Premier
Footballguy
Is Martin just slow? Doesn't care?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Martin has about 4.5 years to pound out 2-3 books to finish it all up. I could see there bring a 1-2 year hiatus before the seventh (and hopefully final) book comes out.
Next season is still book 3. Crows and Dragons is at least 2, if not 3 seasons. They can take their time, perhaps on purpose for Martin, to get into newer characters etc. there's plenty of material.
Next season is still book 3. Crows and Dragons is at least 2, if not 3 seasons. They can take their time, perhaps on purpose for Martin, to get into newer characters etc. there's plenty of material.
parrot
Footballguy
Slow, and has about 100 other irons in the fire, which his involvement with the television show only added to.
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