HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (1 Viewer)

[B-Deep]

Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor

i've seen your penis

it was pretty nice, as far as penises go

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I didn't like the Bolton line "He ignored my advice the whole way".

Made Rob seem like an idiot when he was owning the Lanisters in the field.

Rob was an idiot.

He was indeed. He was one of the ones when you were reading that you knew would die.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

 

[Gr00vus]

I like show Davos much better than book Davos. I can't think of a scene with him in it that I haven't enjoyed. Liam Cunningham is doing a great job, so different from the last role I saw him in in The Guard.

Hound and Arya were my favorite scenes from this season. Too bad it won't last.

Would have liked to have had one more scene with Diana Rigg before the season was over, but I can understand they didn't really have time or reason to squeeze her in again. We'll get plenty of her later anyway.

Really good episode. Though the final scene was corny dramatically, it was very nice visually.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

you lost this war the day you married her.....

 

[B-Deep]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

 

[Gr00vus]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

 

[Gr00vus]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

He wanted her to think Tyrion was trying to buy her off to skip town and get out of his life.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

she assumed Tyrion sent Varys out of cowardice to face her.

 

[Sinn Fein]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

seems like the starks were too arrogant and pompous to keep it for much longer.

seems like the other houses feared Ned and his connection to the Crown.

Ya know when Cat was always telling Robb to not trust greyjoy, not trust Frey. why on earth would he have Bolton as his right hand man with all that was going on?

Can House Stark trust anyone bedisdes House Tully? Ubmer? Karstark (uh no......)

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I didn't like the Bolton line "He ignored my advice the whole way".

Made Rob seem like an idiot when he was owning the Lanisters in the field.

Robb kind of is an idiot, which is how he manages to fail so completely without ever losing on the battlefield.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

He wanted her to think Tyrion was trying to buy her off to skip town and get out of his life.

I think Varys' motives are pretty much exactly what he says they are. I think we're supposed to feel that it's unfortunate that Shae assumes he's acting on behalf of Tyrion. Varys has helped Tyrion before (and will do so again), presumably because he finds him competent.

 

[Sabertooth]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

The symbolism of Ned killing Sansa's wolf was that he killed his family. Only a few left.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

He wanted her to think Tyrion was trying to buy her off to skip town and get out of his life.

I think Varys' motives are pretty much exactly what he says they are. I think we're supposed to feel that it's unfortunate that Shae assumes he's acting on behalf of Tyrion. Varys has helped Tyrion before (and will do so again), presumably because he finds him competent.

I don't think Varys ever shows his true colors. I don't think he's done it yet in the series.

 

[sdp1226]

Hodor Hodor Hodor Hodor

Best lines of the episode

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

He wanted her to think Tyrion was trying to buy her off to skip town and get out of his life.

I think Varys' motives are pretty much exactly what he says they are. I think we're supposed to feel that it's unfortunate that Shae assumes he's acting on behalf of Tyrion. Varys has helped Tyrion before (and will do so again), presumably because he finds him competent.

I don't think Varys ever shows his true colors. I don't think he's done it yet in the series.

I think we're supposed to take it at face value when he says he serves "the Realm" and not any one family or lord.

Whether he has his own machinations or not, I think there is a lot of what Varys says that can be taken at face value. If Varys says that a character is cruel or incompetent, the story generally shows him to be right. He's a shrewd judge of character. Although not in the books, the scenes where Varys and Littlefinger speak on the show are pretty significant. They see themselves in each other. Both are schemers. Both are playing the game at a level above everybody else, even Tywin and Tyrion. The difference being that Littlefinger would "burn the Realm to the ground so that he could rule the ashes." And Varys wouldn't.

 

[sdp1226]

I really found it interesting that they brought up the Rat Cook in this episode.... I hope that this is a set up to the feast in ADWD where Manderlay serves the Boltons "pork pies" while asking the singer to sing the tune of The Rat Cook.

 

[The Gator]

I really found it interesting that they brought up the Rat Cook in this episode.... I hope that this is a set up to the feast in ADWD where Manderlay serves the Boltons "pork pies" while asking the singer to sing the tune of The Rat Cook.

Loved they brought that up, too.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

I can't see them having power like theyve had ever again either.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

The symbolism of Ned killing Sansa's wolf was that he killed his family. Only a few left.

I hate when I miss stuff like this. Very good stuf!

 

[Instinctive]

Thought we might get some Nymeria in the finale, oh well. Want to see how that plays out in the books...

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

I can't see them having power like theyve had ever again either.

The North Remembers and a Stark is always supposed to sit at Winterfell and "rule" the North. Bran the Builder etc etc.

 

[Sabertooth]

There was a scene in the show where Rob is saying his dad taught him to care for all his subjects

that is where he failed, he cared for his love and his family so much that he really failed to think about his kingdom as a whole

it seems the stark boys have a problem with vows/oaths/promises in this series

Thus making them awful leaders IMO

makes me wish that there wa time for the author to write some about NEd's younger years, see where he differed from his kids

It is kind of amazing when you think about it - For eons, the Starks were the family in the north, and in the course of a few months the family has been decimated, hanging on by a thread.

And, even shorter term, Ned and his family had enjoyed relative peace and prosperity for the last 15+ years or so, and now Winterfell is in ruins. Amazing how quickly things turn sometimes...

I can't see them having power like theyve had ever again either.

The North Remembers and a Stark is always supposed to sit at Winterfell and "rule" the North. Bran the Builder etc etc.

Ain't many Starks left. Good thing Ned had a ####load of sons. They are getting used up at an alarming rate.

 

[Sinn Fein]

***LOTS OF SPOILERS***

Its going to be interesting to see how next season plays out. There is a lot going on with several mini-climaxes through the season.

Episode 1 probably feature the mini-wilding attack - get that, and ygritte, out of the way

Episode 2 or 3 will be Joffrey's wedding

Episodes 5 or so should feature the main wilding attack

Somewhere in here will be Tyrions regular trial

Episode 9 is a quandary for me - I had been thinking Tyrion v. Tywin, but maybe its Tyrion's trial by combat, saving Tyrion v. Tywin for episode 10.

Episode 10 ends with Tyrion on a boat, Arya going blind, Jon as Lord Commander, Dany pondering her future as ruler of Mereen, Blackfish escaping the siege at Riverrun

Amid all the high points we'll meet the Red Viper, we'll see Brienne confronted by Loras before going on a tour of the country side, more tension between Cersei and Margaery, Stannis ride to the rescue along the wall and sets up shop, Arya will make her way to Braavos and start her training, the greyjoys will elect a new leader, Littlefinger and Sansa will set up shop in the Eyrie, ending in Lysa's death.

We may not see much of Bran or Theon/Reek next season.

Its going to be a non-stop ride with a significant character seemingly dying in nearly every episode.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

***LOTS OF SPOILERS***

Its going to be interesting to see how next season plays out. There is a lot going on with several mini-climaxes through the season.

Episode 1 probably feature the mini-wilding attack - get that, and ygritte, out of the way

Episode 2 or 3 will be Joffrey's wedding

Episodes 5 or so should feature the main wilding attack

Somewhere in here will be Tyrions regular trial

Episode 9 is a quandary for me - I had been thinking Tyrion v. Tywin, but maybe its Tyrion's trial by combat, saving Tyrion v. Tywin for episode 10.

Episode 10 ends with Tyrion on a boat, Arya going blind, Jon as Lord Commander, Dany pondering her future as ruler of Mereen, Blackfish escaping the siege at Riverrun

Amid all the high points we'll meet the Red Viper, we'll see Brienne confronted by Loras before going on a tour of the country side, more tension between Cersei and Margaery, Stannis ride to the rescue along the wall and sets up shop, Arya will make her way to Braavos and start her training, the greyjoys will elect a new leader, Littlefinger and Sansa will set up shop in the Eyrie, ending in Lysa's death.

We may not see much of Bran or Theon/Reek next season.

Its going to be a non-stop ride with a significant character seemingly dying in nearly every episode.

berric/thoros/lady stoneheart?

 

[Gr00vus]

***LOTS OF SPOILERS***

Its going to be interesting to see how next season plays out. There is a lot going on with several mini-climaxes through the season.

Episode 1 probably feature the mini-wilding attack - get that, and ygritte, out of the way

Episode 2 or 3 will be Joffrey's wedding

Episodes 5 or so should feature the main wilding attack

Somewhere in here will be Tyrions regular trial

Episode 9 is a quandary for me - I had been thinking Tyrion v. Tywin, but maybe its Tyrion's trial by combat, saving Tyrion v. Tywin for episode 10.

Episode 10 ends with Tyrion on a boat, Arya going blind, Jon as Lord Commander, Dany pondering her future as ruler of Mereen, Blackfish escaping the siege at Riverrun

Amid all the high points we'll meet the Red Viper, we'll see Brienne confronted by Loras before going on a tour of the country side, more tension between Cersei and Margaery, Stannis ride to the rescue along the wall and sets up shop, Arya will make her way to Braavos and start her training, the greyjoys will elect a new leader, Littlefinger and Sansa will set up shop in the Eyrie, ending in Lysa's death.

We may not see much of Bran or Theon/Reek next season.

Its going to be a non-stop ride with a significant character seemingly dying in nearly every episode.

Seems like you're including some stuff from later in book 4 here. I thought next season will be mostly the back half of book 3 with a bit of the beginning of 4 thrown in? They're roughly in the mid 50s (of 82 chapters) of book 3 right now.

 

[dancer]

Shae testifies against Tyrion.

Yeah, she brings the "my lion of lannister" back to haunt him in the courtroom and everyone laughs at him. I remember reading that and thinking that's pretty below the belt.

you mean "my giant of lannister" (funnier and even more below the belt)

 

[Clifford]

It's been way too long since I read the books: did Ygritte shoot Jon with arrows in the books? I don't remember that.

 

[Barry]

once in the leg

 

[Fiddles]

I agree. Shae is shown as very caring on this show. When she showed up in Tywin's bed in the books, I don't recall any leadup to that. It was just BAM.

Well, she did testify against him. They are setting up her motivation and depth of the betrayal.

Right, I thought she was just climbing the ladder and looking out for herself. They seem to be playing more of a scorned lover/revenge angle, not a fan.

All I know is, Varys got exactly what he wanted in that scene. Good to see him get more screen time this episode even if it had to come with a side order of Shae (has she graduated from her Arnold Schwarzenegger school of acting yet?).

What did Varys want there? I thought that scene was kind of odd.

He wanted her to think Tyrion was trying to buy her off to skip town and get out of his life.

I think Varys' motives are pretty much exactly what he says they are. I think we're supposed to feel that it's unfortunate that Shae assumes he's acting on behalf of Tyrion. Varys has helped Tyrion before (and will do so again), presumably because he finds him competent.

I don't think Varys ever shows his true colors. I don't think he's done it yet in the series.

I think we're supposed to take it at face value when he says he serves "the Realm" and not any one family or lord. Whether he has his own machinations or not, I think there is a lot of what Varys says that can be taken at face value. If Varys says that a character is cruel or incompetent, the story generally shows him to be right. He's a shrewd judge of character. Although not in the books, the scenes where Varys and Littlefinger speak on the show are pretty significant. They see themselves in each other. Both are schemers. Both are playing the game at a level above everybody else, even Tywin and Tyrion. The difference being that Littlefinger would "burn the Realm to the ground so that he could rule the ashes." And Varys wouldn't.

Excellent post. Littlefinger is the puppet master.

 

[Fiddles]

Agree with the earlier post on Davos. I love the casting on the show. Tywin and Davos are perfect. Sam is the one actor I really didn't like at first but he is coming in to his own now. He was great in the finale.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It's been way too long since I read the books: did Ygritte shoot Jon with arrows in the books? I don't remember that.

I dont either. I thought he didnt see her at all until after the battle

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Varys spoiler below.

I think Varys's goal is war and chaos that weakens the kingdom. He serves those who would see the Targaryens back on the throne.

He's in disguise in one of the early books talking with the host of Daenys and her brother across the narrow sea. Forget his name (Illirio?), but the merchant that introduces her to Drogo. Arya encounters the two of them beneath the Red Keep when Arya is hiding and gets lost. Some of that conversation suggests the above IMO.

There are other incidents that suggest Varys is working to destabilize the kingdom too, but that's the one that comes to mind right away. Went to the main wiki to pull the entry for Varys and see what it says, but it's down. Will try again later.

ETA: Varys, in his disguise as the gaoler for the black cells, also left the gold coins from Highgarden in the cell (Tyrion's?) for Ceresi and the Lannisters to find. At least that's how I read it -- he was trying to sow doubt among a key ally.

 

[Rick James]

I think the fans are going to get restless with Dany's story next season.

 

[rascal]

what chapter/book is the rat cook in? I can't remember. And what happened?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Varys spoiler below.

I think Varys's goal is war and chaos that weakens the kingdom. He serves those who would see the Targaryens back on the throne.

He's in disguise in one of the early books talking with the host of Daenys and her brother across the narrow sea. Forget his name (Illirio?), but the merchant that introduces her to Drogo. Arya encounters the two of them beneath the Red Keep when Arya is hiding and gets lost. Some of that conversation suggests the above IMO.

There are other incidents that suggest Varys is working to destabilize the kingdom too, but that's the one that comes to mind right away. Went to the main wiki to pull the entry for Varys and see what it says, but it's down. Will try again later.

Well yea. He comes out and says this at the end of Dragons basically.

Now, DID Varys play a role in Tyrion's demise and Shae betraying him in the book, or are we just assuming that's the path for the show?

I do believe Varys wants whats best for the realm as a whole, and he is willing to do what is necessary and sacrifice who or what needs to be. Is Young Griff legit? I don't know. Does he care about Targaryans or about having Dany and dragons in Westeros to sort of unite the armies who remain when she crosses the Narrow Sea so that they have a chance against the White Walkers? Does he know what's up with Jon Snow? Did he send Tyrion on his way so he could meet Dany and be another rider?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think the fans are going to get restless with Dany's story next season.

They should. I am restless with it a bit.

There will pretty much be major #### in every episode though, whether it's action, deaths, new characters, or revelations, there won't be a throwaway episode at all if they do it right.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Varys spoiler below.

Well yea. He comes out and says this at the end of Dragons basically.

Sheesh. I'd forgotten that.

Upon his entering the rookery, Varys shoots Kevan with a crossbow, going on to apologize and note that his actions are not out of malice but rather because Kevan's competent leadership threatened to undo Cersei's follies and years of Varys's careful planning. He explains to Kevan that Aegon Targaryen is still alive, and notes the preparations being made to make him the true leader, noting that his death will sow further dissent between the Lannisters and Tyrells, making the realm easy prey for Aegon to arrive and be proclaimed King, for the good of the realm. Varys then summons several of his "little birds" to end Ser Kevan's suffering.

 

[Gr00vus]

Varys spoiler below.

I think Varys's goal is war and chaos that weakens the kingdom. He serves those who would see the Targaryens back on the throne.

He's in disguise in one of the early books talking with the host of Daenys and her brother across the narrow sea. Forget his name (Illirio?), but the merchant that introduces her to Drogo. Arya encounters the two of them beneath the Red Keep when Arya is hiding and gets lost. Some of that conversation suggests the above IMO.

There are other incidents that suggest Varys is working to destabilize the kingdom too, but that's the one that comes to mind right away. Went to the main wiki to pull the entry for Varys and see what it says, but it's down. Will try again later.

Well yea. He comes out and says this at the end of Dragons basically.

Now, DID Varys play a role in Tyrion's demise and Shae betraying him in the book, or are we just assuming that's the path for the show?

I do believe Varys wants whats best for the realm as a whole, and he is willing to do what is necessary and sacrifice who or what needs to be. Is Young Griff legit? I don't know. Does he care about Targaryans or about having Dany and dragons in Westeros to sort of unite the armies who remain when she crosses the Narrow Sea so that they have a chance against the White Walkers? Does he know what's up with Jon Snow? Did he send Tyrion on his way so he could meet Dany and be another rider?

There are a few threads at westeros.org and other places laying out the possibilities in regards to how much Varys was responsible for how things went down with Tyrion's exit from King's Landing. I feel pretty certain Varys consciously helped things along there, it's just a question of to what degree - and I think the scene in last night's episode played out to give that flavor as well. There's zero chance Varys actually wants to see Tyrion end up as King of Westeros.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I know people have mentioned Aegon not being the real Aegon but after re-reading the DWD epilogue Varys seems pretty damn sure he is. I can't imagine him being this wrong. Maybe it's just not this kid though?

 

[Clifford]

Varys spoiler below.

I think Varys's goal is war and chaos that weakens the kingdom. He serves those who would see the Targaryens back on the throne.

He's in disguise in one of the early books talking with the host of Daenys and her brother across the narrow sea. Forget his name (Illirio?), but the merchant that introduces her to Drogo. Arya encounters the two of them beneath the Red Keep when Arya is hiding and gets lost. Some of that conversation suggests the above IMO.

There are other incidents that suggest Varys is working to destabilize the kingdom too, but that's the one that comes to mind right away. Went to the main wiki to pull the entry for Varys and see what it says, but it's down. Will try again later.

ETA: Varys, in his disguise as the gaoler for the black cells, also left the gold coins from Highgarden in the cell (Tyrion's?) for Ceresi and the Lannisters to find. At least that's how I read it -- he was trying to sow doubt among a key ally.

Good points, we already know that Varys is working to help return the Targaryans to the throne.

But this isn't necessarily inconsistent with wanting what's best for the realm. Just like any recent election, consider the alternatives.

 

[Thunderlips]

Varys spoiler below.

I think Varys's goal is war and chaos that weakens the kingdom. He serves those who would see the Targaryens back on the throne.

He's in disguise in one of the early books talking with the host of Daenys and her brother across the narrow sea. Forget his name (Illirio?), but the merchant that introduces her to Drogo. Arya encounters the two of them beneath the Red Keep when Arya is hiding and gets lost. Some of that conversation suggests the above IMO.

There are other incidents that suggest Varys is working to destabilize the kingdom too, but that's the one that comes to mind right away. Went to the main wiki to pull the entry for Varys and see what it says, but it's down. Will try again later.

Well yea. He comes out and says this at the end of Dragons basically.

Now, DID Varys play a role in Tyrion's demise and Shae betraying him in the book, or are we just assuming that's the path for the show?

I do believe Varys wants whats best for the realm as a whole, and he is willing to do what is necessary and sacrifice who or what needs to be. Is Young Griff legit? I don't know. Does he care about Targaryans or about having Dany and dragons in Westeros to sort of unite the armies who remain when she crosses the Narrow Sea so that they have a chance against the White Walkers? Does he know what's up with Jon Snow? Did he send Tyrion on his way so he could meet Dany and be another rider?

IIRC, Varys pulled one of those "this is the secret way to your fathers room...but Please, PLEASE don't kill him with the crossbow above the fireplace" type of moves.

To me, both book and show....Varys is a Targareyn sympathizer who A) obviously wants that family back in charge; but B) won't throw away useful people to get that. From the show, I think he enjoys both Tyrion and Littlefinger.....and I'm sure he's using them both to put pieces in place. (Tyrion overseas and Littlefinger with the Eyrie and the North).

 

[Sabertooth]

Agree with the earlier post on Davos. I love the casting on the show. Tywin and Davos are perfect. Sam is the one actor I really didn't like at first but he is coming in to his own now. He was great in the finale.

Walder Frey and Roose Bolton are perfect as well.

 

[Fiddles]

I think the fans are going to get restless with Dany's story next season.

I don't remember anything else of note happening with her except the lez scene.

 

[babydemon90]

I think the fans are going to get restless with Dany's story next season.

I don't remember anything else of note happening with her except the lez scene.

she'll kick out Jorah somehow.... Might manufacture some scenes to come to that conclusion, probably will find/capture an informant who reveals he's been spying for Westeros. Somehow that will come to light, and Jorah will be gone.

Can't see that arc requiring more then two episodes though...

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Hey Ygritte did shoot Jon in the back twice. Those were kill shots.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think the fans are going to get restless with Dany's story next season.

I don't remember anything else of note happening with her except the lez scene.

I thought I read somewhere that she is not doing noods anymore...

 

[EYLive]

Maybe they'll mix in some sword fights when Dany conquers Mareen. Does Dany ride her dragon next season or is that in Dance with dragons?