HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[CletiusMaximus]

I think they did a good job of hiding Olenna taking the stone off of Sansa's necklace.

You can see her playing with Sansa's hair, but they don't explicitly show her taking a stone off of it. If you look though, the stone on Sansa's upper left is missing.

Can someone remind me, where in the books is it confirmed this is what happened? Did Olenna then pass the stone to Margaery or did Olenna drop it in the wine goblet herself? My recollection is that the actual murder plot and how it was carried out is still rather vague, particularly as to who all was in the know. Varys and Littlefinger were both seemingly in on it, all the Tyrells and of course Dontos - anyone else?

I'm pretty sure it is explained at some point in the book- maybe in one of Littlefinger's chapters?

It's not revealed until Sansa is betrayed by Dontos and on the boat with Littlefinger. Littlefinger tells her, but I don't remember details on who actually dropped the poison.

But all these characters lie and manipulate each other, especially Littlefinger, so information dropped in a conversation isn't ever necessarily fact. One interesting aspect of Martin's POV mechanism is that the only time we can be certain something is fact is if a character actually sees it happening or when he is relating the thoughts of POV characters. We know with certainty that neither Tyrion nor Sansa were in on the plot because they are both POV characters at the event and had chapters before and after. I think the murder happened in a Tyrion chapter. GRRM once said he could never make Howland Reed a POV character, because he knows too much - probably about the Tower of Joy events. He can obscure facts when relating dialogue from non-POV characters, but can't hide the truth known by a POV character.

 

[sn0mm1s]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".



Lady Stoneheart. Stannis goes to the Wall.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".



there will be no hiatus, the series will finish before GRRM does the books

 

[sn0mm1s]

I think they did a good job of hiding Olenna taking the stone off of Sansa's necklace.

You can see her playing with Sansa's hair, but they don't explicitly show her taking a stone off of it. If you look though, the stone on Sansa's upper left is missing.

Can someone remind me, where in the books is it confirmed this is what happened? Did Olenna then pass the stone to Margaery or did Olenna drop it in the wine goblet herself? My recollection is that the actual murder plot and how it was carried out is still rather vague, particularly as to who all was in the know. Varys and Littlefinger were both seemingly in on it, all the Tyrells and of course Dontos - anyone else?

I'm pretty sure it is explained at some point in the book- maybe in one of Littlefinger's chapters?

It's not revealed until Sansa is betrayed by Dontos and on the boat with Littlefinger. Littlefinger tells her, but I don't remember details on who actually dropped the poison.

Doesn't Littlefinger have his cronies kill Dontos even before he's on their boat? I only read that part about 2 months ago but it feels like years

My recollection - yes Dontos is killed, but he was never supposed to board the boat. After Sansa is aboard Dontos begins to make his way back to King's Landing and Littlefinger has him killed so he's not a "loose end" so to speak.

Littlefinger has Dontos shot with a crossbow when he asks for his reward for delivering Sansa to Littlefinger's boat. He tells Sansa something like, "Gold buys a man's silence for a time but a well placed crossbow bolt buys it forever." I don't remember the exact line but that is close.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".



Lady Stoneheart. Stannis goes to the Wall.

Figure the former will be the season prologue. 5 minutes tops.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".



there will be no hiatus, the series will finish before GRRM does the books

Was that announced? I've forgotten.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".



there will be no hiatus, the series will finish before GRRM does the books

Huh?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

Spoiler

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".

there will be no hiatus, the series will finish before GRRM does the books

Was that announced? I've forgotten.

no but Im guessing based on GRRM pace. HBO will probably go 7 maybe 8 seasons for it.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

You serious, Clark?

sorta, ya. They've manipulated the time line a quite a bit and I have a feeling we might be getting a lot of Feast content pretty quickly here. The Princess Marcella dialogue was interesting last night. Seemed like a pretty big reminder and foreshadowing for the TV viewers.

Book 3 major content left:

Spoiler

Trial + Trial by Combat

Privy

Wall Attack + Lord Commander/Winterfell

Meereen + Mormont Exile

The Vale

Spoiler

What's left for Arya this season? Bran? Stannis?

(unless they spoil his arrival at the wall, there isn't much more to tell - maybe a few scenes, the post-battle offer made to Jon).

Spoiler

I would not be surprised if we see a bit more of the Dornish story, ahead of next season. Maybe a little more Bran too (he is already out in front of Storm of Swords at this point).

My primary takeaway from last night was "####, they really are going to have to go on hiatus".

there will be no hiatus, the series will finish before GRRM does the books

Huh?

The TV show will end before GRRM finishes the books, all speculation on my part

 

[Sinn Fein]

Someone refresh my memory - Feast and Storm both covered the same basic time period, but in different parts of the world, right?

 

[Mario Kart]

Curious as I am not a reader but do other research so I don't mind spoils. But, could somebody list a timeline of sorts as to where the characters are in relation to their book counterparts? The last couple posts in this thread lead me to this question.

I guess the main point to the question is... where are we?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Curious as I am not a reader but do other research so I don't mind spoils. But, could somebody list a timeline of sorts as to where the characters are in relation to their book counterparts? The last couple posts in this thread lead me to this question.

I guess the main point to the question is... where are we?

if you don't care about spoilers, this is pretty good. Chapter names/timeline/summary.

For some folks, we are at the end of Book 3. For others, more mid-ground.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Someone refresh my memory - Feast and Storm both covered the same basic time period, but in different parts of the world, right?

Nevermind - just looked it up, and it was Feast and Dance with Dragons that took place simultaneously.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Curious as I am not a reader but do other research so I don't mind spoils. But, could somebody list a timeline of sorts as to where the characters are in relation to their book counterparts? The last couple posts in this thread lead me to this question.

I guess the main point to the question is... where are we?

if you don't care about spoilers, this is pretty good. Chapter names/timeline/summary.

For some folks, we are at the end of Book 3. For others, more mid-ground.

For example:

ASOS 75: Arya XIII

Sandor gets in a fight with some of Gregor's men at an inn and is seriously wounded; Arya leaves him in the woods and takes passage with a Braavosi ship at Saltpans using the coin Jaqen gave her.


That's Arya's last chapter for the book.



ETA: for the most part it looks like we are in the mid 60s chapters (out of 82).

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Someone refresh my memory - Feast and Storm both covered the same basic time period, but in different parts of the world, right?

Nevermind - just looked it up, and it was Feast and Dance with Dragons that took place simultaneously.

isnt the Bran and theon storylines accelerated at this point on the show? or no?

 

[Sinn Fein]

Someone refresh my memory - Feast and Storm both covered the same basic time period, but in different parts of the world, right?

Nevermind - just looked it up, and it was Feast and Dance with Dragons that took place simultaneously.

isnt the Bran and theon storylines accelerated at this point on the show? or no?

Theon's story is in book 5 right now.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Just read through the chapter summary JTG posted above, and despite reading the books twice I sure did miss a lot. What's challenging is not just the number of characters or plot lines, it's that almost everything you read matters even when you don't see how.

 

[sdp1226]

They cut out the best Bolton dialogue ever..."don't make me regret the day I raped your mother."

awesome episode though

I don't remember this line at all.

 

[Abrantes]

When, in terms of which book, does Arya get to Bravos?

I am trying to figure out what is going to fill the next 8 episodes. 5 episodes of Tyrion in the clink seems like a lot. I have a feeling we won't see much of Kings Landing for a good spell (until the leadup to the trial and the resolution of that whole story line).

Extended scenes of King Tommen playing with Ser Pounce?

We can only hope.

 

[Gr00vus]

I like having Bron take Ser Ilyn's place to cover for the death of the actor who played Ser Ilyn. That also probably means Bron goes with Jaime when he heads west. Which is good because the Bron character is . Should be plenty of good interaction between Bron and Jaime.

 

[Rick James]

They cut out the best Bolton dialogue ever..."don't make me regret the day I raped your mother."

awesome episode though

I don't remember this line at all.

haha. It was in Dance, when Bolton arrived to meet Ramsay at the Dreadfort.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I hope none of this comes across as complaining, ect., but

I also noticed they haven't even begun to work Cersei's interplay with the Kettleblacks. I hope that wrinkle doesn't get left on the editing room floor.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I like having Bron take Ser Ilyn's place to cover for the death of the actor who played Ser Ilyn. That also probably means Bron goes with Jaime when he heads west. Which is good because the Bron character is . Should be plenty of good interaction between Bron and Jaime.

good post

 

[Gr00vus]

I hope none of this comes across as complaining, ect., but

I also noticed they haven't even begun to work Cersei's interplay with the Kettleblacks. I hope that wrinkle doesn't get left on the editing room floor.

It'll be interesting to see how they depict her downward spiral in the show. Headey is a really good actress. As much as Gleason/Joffrey she's done a fantastic job of making us love to hate her character.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I hope none of this comes across as complaining, ect., but

I also noticed they haven't even begun to work Cersei's interplay with the Kettleblacks. I hope that wrinkle doesn't get left on the editing room floor.

It'll be interesting to see how they depict her downward spiral in the show. Headey is a really good actress. As much as Gleason/Joffrey she's done a fantastic job of making us love to hate her character.

yep. I enjoyed that bit of Feast.

 

[jplvr]

There is a lot of terrible information and poor speculation on this page.

 

[Gr00vus]

There is a lot of terrible information and poor speculation on this page.

Pretty sure I spelled Lena Headley's Headey's name right pal.

 

[Sabertooth]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

 

[KarmaPolice]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

 

[jplvr]

There is a lot of terrible information and poor speculation on this page.

Pretty sure I spelled Lena Headley's Headey's name right pal.

I'll be damned. At least I did learn something new.

 

[sn0mm1s]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

One could argue Varys, Illyario, and Oberyn.

 

[Mario Kart]

Just read through the chapter summary JTG posted above, and despite reading the books twice I sure did miss a lot. What's challenging is not just the number of characters or plot lines, it's that almost everything you read matters even when you don't see how.

This would be/is my issue if I ever try to read through these books. I tend to read slow and deliberate/detailed but these books are chalk full of detail. It would take me forever to read through them.

Video games today give you a percentage when you finish them as to how much stuff you find/completed. If I read these books, my percentage would be lucky to reach 60%.

 

[Kraft...]

Haven't watched yet, placeholder

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

 

[KarmaPolice]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

well he refuses to be Tyrions Champion in the coming trial, so that can be perceived as a betryal.

 

[strykerpks]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

He ended up killing her dad and naming their son Tyrion though, correct?

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Tyrion is definitely set up to be the fall Guy for killing the king. What better way to start to tear the Lannisters apart? It's common knowledge how much they hate each other. It works out better than could be expected when Tywin is killed.

 

[Thunderlips]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

I think Bronn more or less says that he'd fight (The Mountain) for him for payment.....but a dead man can't spend money. After The Mountain wins and Tyrion is viewed guilty....Bronn steps away from him...but it's kind of a "no hard feelings" viewpoint. Afterwards, Cersei suspects Bronn is harboring Tyrion and IIRC, plots to have him killed.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

Liked this scene in the book. "Sorry, man -- you know I want to, but... well, you understand." "Yeah -- I get it. No hard feelings."

 

[kentric]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

I always thought Bron was bought off by Littlefinger who worked with Varys. Then when Varys frees Tyrion they set it up so Tyrion sees his Father w/Shae.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

I think Bronn more or less says that he'd fight (The Mountain) for him for payment.....but a dead man can't spend money. After The Mountain wins and Tyrion is viewed guilty....Bronn steps away from him...but it's kind of a "no hard feelings" viewpoint. Afterwards, Cersei suspects Bronn is harboring Tyrion and IIRC, plots to have him killed.

recently read this part. I think she goes so far as to send someone to kill "Baby Tyrion" too. Or was planning to, prior to her downfall.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

I always thought Bron was bought off by Littlefinger who worked with Varys. Then when Varys frees Tyrion they set it up so Tyrion sees his Father w/Shae.

Varys actually tells Tyrion "don't go up there, nothing good will come of it". I think he was sincere.

ETA: obvious paraphrase, looking for the actual passage in the book (no pun intended).

 

[Bigboy10182000]

A Feast for Crows

Lady Tanda Stokeworth informs Cersei Lannister that Bronn names his wife Lollys's ******* son Tyrion, in dubious honor of his former employer.[8]

Bronn soon takes four knights into his household, although Ser Balman tells Cersei that they are upjumped sellswords, with not a thimbleful of chivalry to be found amongst the four of them.[9] This leads Queen Cersei to fear that he is still in league with Tyrion, and causes Cersei to conspire with Bronn's good-sister Falyse Stokeworth and her husband Ser Balman Byrch to have Bronn killed.

Ser Balman, ever chivalrous, challenges Bronn to a duel, but Bronn kills Ser Balman using dirty tactics and expels Lady Falyse from the castle. Upon Ser Balman's death, Bronn is unopposed as the Lord Protector of Stokeworth, a claim derived from his wife's new position as Lady Stokeworth.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

I always thought Bron was bought off by Littlefinger who worked with Varys. Then when Varys frees Tyrion they set it up so Tyrion sees his Father w/Shae.

Varys actually tells Tyrion "don't go up there, nothing good will come of it". I think he was sincere.

ETA: obvious paraphrase, looking for the actual passage in the book (no pun intended).

It actually went like this (just looked):

T: My bedchamber is up there.

V: Actually it's your father's now.

T: How far is the climb?

V: Let's go, you are too weak, there is no time.

T: How far?

V: blah blah blah be careful.

V: This is folly, your brother has given you your life back. Would you cast it away and mine with it"

I don't buy into the notion that Varys planned for Tyrion to kill Tywin (lots of discussion on this on other boards).

 

[Amused to Death]

Just read through the chapter summary JTG posted above, and despite reading the books twice I sure did miss a lot. What's challenging is not just the number of characters or plot lines, it's that almost everything you read matters even when you don't see how.

This would be/is my issue if I ever try to read through these books. I tend to read slow and deliberate/detailed but these books are chalk full of detail. It would take me forever to read through them.

Video games today give you a percentage when you finish them as to how much stuff you find/completed. If I read these books, my percentage would be lucky to reach 60%.

I was a late starter on the books (between seasons 2 & 3). Would definitely recommend reading even though you've been a steady viewer of the show. First 3 went pretty fast for me then 4 slowed up a bit (till the last 1/3 or so, imo). You'll gain a ton of insight even if you don't remember all of it. Plus now you have faces and voices to go with the characters as you read.

Then after you read the books, go back and watch the series again on HBOGo. You'll be amazed at how much better you understand things. That was my experience anyway.

 

[Thunderlips]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

I always thought Bron was bought off by Littlefinger who worked with Varys. Then when Varys frees Tyrion they set it up so Tyrion sees his Father w/Shae.

Varys actually tells Tyrion "don't go up there, nothing good will come of it". I think he was sincere.

ETA: obvious paraphrase, looking for the actual passage in the book (no pun intended).

It actually went like this (just looked):

T: My bedchamber is up there.

V: Actually it's your father's now.

T: How far is the climb?

V: Let's go, you are too weak, there is no time.

T: How far?

V: blah blah blah be careful.

V: This is folly, your brother has given you your life back. Would you cast it away and mine with it"

I don't buy into the notion that Varys planned for Tyrion to kill Tywin (lots of discussion on this on other boards).

But that does jibe with what Varys wants. There's the theory that Oberyn poisoned Tywin and Tywin was in the process of dying a slow death.....but Varys would have known who was up there.....if he wasn't interested in Tyrion knowing that Tywin was up there....he didn't have to tell him.

 

[sn0mm1s]

is there a single person besides jamie that doesn't turn their back on tyrion?

I don't recall Bronn's full betrayal.

that is one I couldn't remember how we left off with in the book.

While Tyrion is waiting trial, he sends Pod to get Bronn but he doesn't bring him to the cell for like 3 days. But by then Cercei has arranged for him to marry Lollys (sp?) in a few days, essentially giving him land and title that Tyrion can't.

I think Bronn more or less says that he'd fight (The Mountain) for him for payment.....but a dead man can't spend money. After The Mountain wins and Tyrion is viewed guilty....Bronn steps away from him...but it's kind of a "no hard feelings" viewpoint. Afterwards, Cersei suspects Bronn is harboring Tyrion and IIRC, plots to have him killed.

Bronn says he'd fight if Tyrion could make good on his earlier promise (to double whatever someone offered Bronn to betray him). But wouldn't otherwise because it is a lose lose situation for him. Tyrion doesn't have the resources to double what Cersei offered so Bronn basically says good luck - I hope you make it out OK.

 

[sn0mm1s]

So - has Bron already been bought by Tywin at this point? Maybe explaining why Shae will end up with Tywin instead of on the boat?

I always thought Bron was bought off by Littlefinger who worked with Varys. Then when Varys frees Tyrion they set it up so Tyrion sees his Father w/Shae.

Varys actually tells Tyrion "don't go up there, nothing good will come of it". I think he was sincere.

ETA: obvious paraphrase, looking for the actual passage in the book (no pun intended).

It actually went like this (just looked):

T: My bedchamber is up there.

V: Actually it's your father's now.

T: How far is the climb?

V: Let's go, you are too weak, there is no time.

T: How far?

V: blah blah blah be careful.

V: This is folly, your brother has given you your life back. Would you cast it away and mine with it"

I don't buy into the notion that Varys planned for Tyrion to kill Tywin (lots of discussion on this on other boards).

Yeah, I don't think Varys thought he would either. Varys just thinks Tyrion is going to get caught and Varys would get implicated in his escape.