HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (6 Viewers)

[KarmaPolice]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

 

[KarmaPolice]

"and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined"

I mean, ####, how do you all read this.

For real.

as much as I love these books, his sex scenes are horrible.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

IIRC, the first Dany-Drogo sex scene got pretty much the same treatment by the show.

Same as the book, and made perfect sense considering the circumstances.

The first Dany/Drogo scene definitely wasn't anything close to rape in the book - can't say the same about the show.

I guess we have different recollections. Mine is he took her, not with great force, and she submitted, but she submitted because she was a terrified 14 year old girl married to the guy. If you could call it marriage at that point.

It was a drawn out scene with her starting nervous and scared. He starts massaging her and trying to make her comfortable. He finally asks and she actually gives him verbal consent and initiates the sex. It wasn't anything close to a rape unless we are using some statutory rape definition.

Or you realize she was only there because she was sold to him, i.e. sex slave. But whatever. It all ends well and she ends up riding him like Silver in front of the entire Dothraki horde.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The Atlantic's take -

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/04/game-of-thrones-rape/361011/

 

[Crazy Canuck]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

yea, you still don't get it

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

Meh, it's only Cersei.

True, by season 5 the fans will be hi-fiving Jaimee for raping her.

 

[renesauz]

Everyone's calling it a rape scene, but for all her "no"s, Cercei wasn't fighting all that hard, and at several points wasn't fighting at all.

It was oddly done for sure, but fell into a grey area somewhere short of "rape"

 

[KarmaPolice]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

yea, you still don't get it

ok

 

[shuke]

"and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined"

I mean, ####, how do you all read this.

"seed" is one of Martin's favorite terms.

 

[shuke]

Everyone's calling it a rape scene, but for all her "no"s, Cercei wasn't fighting all that hard, and at several points wasn't fighting at all.

It was oddly done for sure, but fell into a grey area somewhere short of "rape"

I still think it fits within Jaime's arc at this point.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Everyone's calling it a rape scene, but for all her "no"s, Cercei wasn't fighting all that hard, and at several points wasn't fighting at all.

It was oddly done for sure, but fell into a grey area somewhere short of "rape"

Watched it again tonight. Yeah More rapey then my first impression. Editor didn't do a good job.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

yea, you still don't get it

ok

I'm with karma here. Not the worse thing vividly depicted on the show, by a long way.

 

[sn0mm1s]

IIRC, the first Dany-Drogo sex scene got pretty much the same treatment by the show.

Same as the book, and made perfect sense considering the circumstances.

The first Dany/Drogo scene definitely wasn't anything close to rape in the book - can't say the same about the show.

I guess we have different recollections. Mine is he took her, not with great force, and she submitted, but she submitted because she was a terrified 14 year old girl married to the guy. If you could call it marriage at that point.

It was a drawn out scene with her starting nervous and scared. He starts massaging her and trying to make her comfortable. He finally asks and she actually gives him verbal consent and initiates the sex. It wasn't anything close to a rape unless we are using some statutory rape definition.

Or you realize she was only there because she was sold to him, i.e. sex slave. But whatever. It all ends well and she ends up riding him like Silver in front of the entire Dothraki horde.

She was neither sold to him nor was she a slave, sex slave, or anything of the like. Arranged marriages are not forms of slavery. I mean, was Lysa Tully a sex slave of Jon Arryn? Was Catelyn a sex slave of Ned - or is it the reverse because Ned was only marrying Catelyn because his brother was killed? Is Margaery a sex slave of Tommen? Did Dany sell herself into slavery by marrying Hizdhar in order to stop the Harpy's Sons from murdering people?

 

[sn0mm1s]

"and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined"

I mean, ####, how do you all read this.

"seed" is one of Martin's favorite terms.

The Bible talks about spilling seed - how bad of a term could it be?

 

[psychobillies]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

yea, you still don't get it

ok

I'm with karma here. Not the worse thing vividly depicted on the show, by a long way.

I think CC is upset with the fact that they have screwed up Jamie's redemption in one fell swoop, not that there was a rape scene. I have to agree with him on that.

 

[KarmaPolice]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

Jon snow and co don't go north of the wall to kill the turn cloaks either in the book iirc.

 

[dickey moe]

Well, who's going to be first to say "I told you so" about Sansa's necklace in the TV thread?

The dude who posted a link to a pic in here without a spoiler warning.

 

[dickey moe]

Is it me, or did Littlefinger's accent sound more "Irish" during this episode?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

"and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined"

I mean, ####, how do you all read this.

For real.

as much as I love these books, his sex scenes are horrible.

Yep. It's almost like they're written by a fat, ugly guy that's been lucky to ever have sex.

 

[Gr00vus]

Is it me, or did Littlefinger's accent sound more "Irish" during this episode?

I thought the same thing.

 

[Gr00vus]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

Jon snow and co don't go north of the wall to kill the turn cloaks either in the book iirc.

Right. Also - did the Hound and Arya scene this week happen in the books?

The more I think about it, the less I like this episode.

 

[Thunderlips]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

I think they're filling the need to stretch it out a bit as in all reality......

Bran is almost to the end of his ADwD story.

Arya is getting close to the end of her story. (While she does spend time in Bravos...what she does is a bit redundant....it doesn't make for a real meaty storyline).

While Dany has a lot going on for her in ADwD.....there's a certain amount of redundancy to that as well.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Is it me, or did Littlefinger's accent sound more "Irish" during this episode?

He was all whispery because they were on the water trying to escape. It was bad.

 

[CBusAlex]

depicting mutilation and murder = okay

depicting rape = bad

odd

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

I'm with karma here. Not the worse thing vividly depicted on the show, by a long way.

*sigh*

The issue isn't the rape scene, so much as that the director apparently does not consider what happened in the scene to be rape. HTH.

 

[Thunderlips]

Is it me, or did Littlefinger's accent sound more "Irish" during this episode?

He was all whispery because they were on the water trying to escape. It was bad.

I thought it was because he was horny he was so close to Sansa and he was trying to contain himself.

 

[CBusAlex]

Everyone's calling it a rape scene, but for all her "no"s, Cercei wasn't fighting all that hard, and at several points wasn't fighting at all.

It was oddly done for sure, but fell into a grey area somewhere short of "rape"

This has to be shtick, right?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Timschochet says it's OK, because Cersei has the body of a 24 year-old.

 

[Thunderlips]

Everyone's calling it a rape scene, but for all her "no"s, Cercei wasn't fighting all that hard, and at several points wasn't fighting at all.

It was oddly done for sure, but fell into a grey area somewhere short of "rape"

This has to be shtick, right?

Maybe...

I'm one to say that I'm not sure if it's rape (not comparing it to OUR societal definition of rape as it was assuredly so) or it's just a "relationship facet" of Jamie and Cersei rearing its head. Let's put it this way....if there's little or no tension between the characters in the coming weeks or they don't treat it as a rape on the show....I'm going to say it wasn't rape.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Is it me, or did Littlefinger's accent sound more "Irish" during this episode?

He was all whispery because they were on the water trying to escape. It was bad.

I thought it was because he was horny he was so close to Sansa and he was trying to contain himself.

lol, probably that too

 

[Bigboy10182000]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

Jon snow and co don't go north of the wall to kill the turn cloaks either in the book iirc.

Right. Also - did the Hound and Arya scene this week happen in the books?

The more I think about it, the less I like this episode.

I dont think that scene happened in the books. The Hound should actually be "dead" about now on the show.

 

[sn0mm1s]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

Jon snow and co don't go north of the wall to kill the turn cloaks either in the book iirc.

Right. Also - did the Hound and Arya scene this week happen in the books?

The more I think about it, the less I like this episode.

I dont think that scene happened in the books. The Hound should actually be "dead" about now on the show.

They just flipped the order around. In the books the Hound does do some work for a small village (and Arya destroys the girl that follows her around's doll) but they won't hire the Hound permanently because they know that he is Joffrey's dog and they believe that he has lost his belly for fighting when the Hound offers to help defend their town.

That entire episode was new or heavily edited scenes. The only *lines* (off the top of my head) that I recognized from the books were Littlefinger telling Sansa that gold buys silence for a time but a well placed crossbow bolt buys it forever and Cersei telling Jaime about Tyrion's threat (joy turn to ashes in your mouth). Other than that, I think all the lines and scene were new. Definitely not one of the better episodes IMO. Of course, my wife, who hasn't read the books enjoyed this past episode more than the previous one with Joffrey dying.

As long as they don't screw up the Oberyn/Mountain fight and Tyrion's escape the season will be great.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

depicting mutilation and murder = okay

depicting rape = bad

odd

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

I'm with karma here. Not the worse thing vividly depicted on the show, by a long way.

*sigh*

The issue isn't the rape scene, so much as that the director apparently does not consider what happened in the scene to be rape. HTH.

It seems like a very poor mix of elements from the book and show. The reasons for her resistance aren't obvious in the scene, only a bit of dialogue near the end. Given how much is missed by people when they hit the audience over the head with information, not surprised by the,general impression. I see the director point, but he made it too subtly on the screen, and it plays off as rape. Also get how some people are only "offended" by it because it changes the story arc of Jaime. But there are lots of people, maybe not here on this board, but general show watchers don't like it just because it plays as a pretty vivid rape scene, but get a kick out of the Hound's casual violence.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

If that wasn't a rape, then the directors did a poor job of showing it. My "unsullied" wife (non book-reader) viewed it as a rape. Her exact words were, "Damn just when I was starting to like Jaimie..."

This is my main problem with it. You were SUPPOSED to start liking Jaimee at this point. He's one of the most dynamic characters in the story. He goes from an utter villain to being wounded, marred, then transformed by the experience into something more honorable. He continues to get "good" and definitely sympathetic as the story progresses, but this idiot director pissed in that arc with his rapey idiocy.

The funny thing is it isn't THAT far off from what was in the book. If nothing else, this is a fine lesson in editing and context. I saw a little towards the end of Cersei kissing back, but it was about 1sec and then it cut to the next scene. Maybe if she would have said a line more like the book and say "No, who knows who's watching" or something like that it would have been less rapey too. And as Martin said in an interview, having Jamie come back before all this has started a butterfly effect that led to a scene like this. I thought it was borderline rape in the book after re-reading it, but it did have a more emotionally complex feel to it having it being the first time they are together, both grieving,etc.. Having Jamie back sooner and seeing them distant and arguing a couple times flipped this in a completely different different direction.

I know a lot of us do, but how much are we SUPPOSED to like Jamie? He is not that far removed from pushing a child out a window and strangling his cousin with his bare hands. I think he is an interesting character for sure and fits in with all the other morally ambiguous characters in the series, but unlike some others I don't think he would have changed one bit if somebody hadn't forced his "hand".

Overall, this episode felt like the start of diverging more and more from the books, and I think that started to rub the book readers the wrong way climaxing with the Jamie/Cersei scene. We also have Sam/Gilly, the cannibals eating the kids parents, Littlefinger throwing the necklace in the boat, a different fight of champions at Mereen, the Tywin speech to Tommen, and I think a couple others I can't remember now. Before I noticed scenes here and there that were off from the books, but I think this is the first time I just had an overall feeling of them starting to distance themselves more from the books. I am sure some of that is out of need if they need to get somewhere with these stories quicker than Martin will in the books. Or maybe I am just making too much of the little differences.

Jon snow and co don't go north of the wall to kill the turn cloaks either in the book iirc.

Right. Also - did the Hound and Arya scene this week happen in the books?

The more I think about it, the less I like this episode.

I dont think that scene happened in the books. The Hound should actually be "dead" about now on the show.

They just flipped the order around. In the books the Hound does do some work for a small village (and Arya destroys the girl that follows her around's doll) but they won't hire the Hound permanently because they know that he is Joffrey's dog and they believe that he has lost his belly for fighting when the Hound offers to help defend their town.

That entire episode was new or heavily edited scenes. The only *lines* (off the top of my head) that I recognized from the books were Littlefinger telling Sansa that gold buys silence for a time but a well placed crossbow bolt buys it forever and Cersei telling Jaime about Tyrion's threat (joy turn to ashes in your mouth). Other than that, I think all the lines and scene were new. Definitely not one of the better episodes IMO. Of course, my wife, who hasn't read the books enjoyed this past episode more than the previous one with Joffrey dying.

As long as they don't screw up the Oberyn/Mountain fight and Tyrion's escape the season will be great.

some book people need to lighten up a bit. Of course its not going to follow word for word.

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

I think they should reinforce this almost every episode, with her continuing to keep a mental list of her revenge victims - it will highlight the transformation with her faceless men training, where she has to give up the past and her revenge.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

I think they should reinforce this almost every episode, with her continuing to keep a mental list of her revenge victims - it will highlight the transformation with her faceless men training, where she has to give up the past and her revenge.

Both are very

 

[Thunderlips]

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

Tormund's the one they'll use for the Karstark girl.

Benjen can't come back until they need him to tell the reader/viewer of John's true heritage.

 

[Mister Martie]

I am wondering what they are going to do with the Greyjoy storyline. With Asha where she is in the show, I'm not sure how that is going to play out.

 

[Thunderlips]

What'll probably happen is:

Tormund and Ygritte's group will attack The Wall.....Ygritte will die. Tormund will be wounded; John won't allow the Night's Watch to kill him....he'll be taken prisoner. The Thenn's won't attack The Wall; realizing how much tastier stuff is south of The Wall, they'll go off and become the cannibalistic antagonists that Davos has to rescue Rickon from.

Seeing the way John helped him, Tormund will have more of a reason to take up role as the one who convinces the Wildlings to come South of The Wall.

 

[Thunderlips]

I am wondering what they are going to do with the Greyjoy storyline. With Asha where she is in the show, I'm not sure how that is going to play out.

I don't think she comes back for the kingsmoot as her role is pretty limited.

 

[Mister Martie]

I am wondering what they are going to do with the Greyjoy storyline. With Asha where she is in the show, I'm not sure how that is going to play out.

I don't think she comes back for the kingsmoot as her role is pretty limited.

I'm thinking they are going to cut out the kingsmoot all together. It's interesting but before it happens, Euron is king (basically) and after it he is still king.Asha is well on her way to getting captured by Stannis. No way she is going back.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

I think we are forced to endure Sam and Gilly as part of Sam's development into a VIP. Thenn seems to be name recognition. The Wall storyline is going to get lots of chopping I think. The Mance, Jon, Stannis triangle will be highlighted with lots of the rest passed over.

I'm beginning to wonder if Tywin and Kevan's murders aren't merged in some way. Varys delivers his your to competent to live speech to Tywin. It seems that Tommen in the show won't be portrayed as a child but as the one Lannister who could establish a Lannister dynasty, with Tywin's tutelage.

 

[Thunderlips]

I am wondering what they are going to do with the Greyjoy storyline. With Asha where she is in the show, I'm not sure how that is going to play out.

I don't think she comes back for the kingsmoot as her role is pretty limited.

I'm thinking they are going to cut out the kingsmoot all together. It's interesting but before it happens, Euron is king (basically) and after it he is still king.Asha is well on her way to getting captured by Stannis. No way she is going back.

IIRC, in the show she says she's going to sail up the Narrow Sea and get her brother back at the Dreadfort....where as in the book she gets pinched by Stannis at Deepwood Motte...which is basically on the same site of the continent as the Iron Islands. So she's either going to get nabbed by Stannis while passing DragonStone or on the High Seas....or they let her somehow get to the DreadFort where they expand her story.

 

[Thunderlips]

I think they like the Hound on the show, and want to drag him out.

I also like the shows version of Robb Stark's wife better.

Of course Qarth & the house of undying could of been better on the show . but the main vision on the show seems to be snow in the throne room in kings landing.

I think the Jamie thing is getting picked apare because its major characters involving "rape" or "forced sex". and the show has pretty much left all the raping out.

I don't care if they change stuff - it just has to make sense and/or add to story. I like what that have done with the Hound and Bronn.

1) Sam and Gilly add *nothing* to the story.

2) Cannibal Thenns add nothing to the story (and cause a problem down the road with the marriage to Alys Karstark).

3) Fighting mutining crows to protect the Watch's secret (which isn't a secret) makes no sense.

Remove the Thenns and flesh out Sansa and Dontos' relationship.

Or let us see a little bit of Osha and Rickon (since when he is mentioned later all non-book readers are going to ask "who?")

Show a little more of Arya's anger

How about some Others/Benjen Stark (presumably) with Bran north of the Wall.

Maybe a little Jaime/Brienne or Jaime/Kingsguard confrontations.

There is so much stuff they can do that lends to the evolution of the characters rather than Sam and Gilly plucking a geese.

I think we are forced to endure Sam and Gilly as part of Sam's development into a VIP.Thenn seems to be name recognition. The Wall storyline is going to get lots of chopping I think. The Mance, Jon, Stannis triangle will be highlighted with lots of the rest passed over.

I'm beginning to wonder if Tywin and Kevan's murders aren't merged in some way. Varys delivers his your to competent to live speech to Tywin. It seems that Tommen in the show won't be portrayed as a child but as the one Lannister who could establish a Lannister dynasty, with Tywin's tutelage.

I wouldn't want that. Maybe they beef up Tommen's abilities as a good king in an effort to really expose Varys as a heel......but I think that Tyrion has to settle Tywin v. Tyrion and Cersei has to be exposed as (in the words of Tywin) not as clever as she thinks she is.

 

[thecatch]

There hasn't been a single departure from the books in the show that I've been upset about. Plus, I enjoy being surprised a little bit when they deviate from the text of the book.

 

[Clifford]

we are watching a series that has had scenes of beheadings, child murder, castration, and the stabbing of a pregnant woman in her stomach, and this is the scene that people get their panties in a wad about?

yea, you still don't get it

ok

I'm with karma here. Not the worse thing vividly depicted on the show, by a long way.

Ripping an infant from the arms of its mother and shoving a dagger through it does come to mind. Yet another liberal sacred cow I suppose.

 

[sn0mm1s]

There hasn't been a single departure from the books in the show that I've been upset about. Plus, I enjoy being surprised a little bit when they deviate from the text of the book.

Really? Arya having Jaqen kill the Tickler was a horrible choice. The scene in the books where she kills the TIckler with the Hound is one of the best of the series.

Jon not killing Ygritte but then running after her was lame. Jon telling her to go before his wits returned and the follow up conversation with Yoren are excellent insight into Jon that was tossed away for a chase scene.

There are a few others - but those two stand out to me.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

No chain in the Blackwater!

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Wonder how they are going to reintroduce the whole Tysha aspect of Tyrion's character. As it stands, it was a quick snippet in season 1 that no viewer is really going to remember. That issue is at the very core of the character and coming events.