HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (3 Viewers)

[flysack]

Well...bye.

the levels of my infamy never ceases to amaze me. I'm almost flattered.

 

[Abrantes]

GoT can't see the superstar right before their eyes.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Well...bye.

the levels of my infamy never ceases to amaze me. I'm almost flattered.

This was more about your pouty quit post than your "infamy".

 

[flysack]

Well...bye.

the levels of my infamy never ceases to amaze me. I'm almost flattered.

This was more about your pouty quit post than your "infamy".

Shhh, I'm warming up to an evil monologue. Don't ruin it.

 

[jplvr]

Well...bye.

the levels of my infamy never ceases to amaze me. I'm almost flattered.

This was more about your pouty quit post than your "infamy".

Shhh, I'm warming up to an evil monologue. Don't ruin it.

Are you the "clink guy" from earlier in the thread?

 

[The Duff Man]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

I tend to agree with this. As long as it's done well I'm game for some deviation.

I enjoyed evil Billy Idol at Craster's and I think it will be as good a way as any to unveil full warg-out action. I'm interested how they reconcile the arrival of Jon Snow and gang, but perhaps SmartHodor lays waste to all of the baddies before they get there?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I guess I didn't find it all that interesting, just different.

 

[encaitar]

I don't mind the changes so much. With the books, we get Jojen's words and Bran's POVs to determine that Bran can warg better than pretty much anyone ever has. It makes him one of the most powerful beings in Westeros. In the show he's a little boy who has funny dreams. They need a way to show his ability and power. I can certainly see him using Hodor to break free from Craster's as a way to show a snippet of this.

As for Jon going to Craster's... It likely just has to do with establishing credibility for naming him Lord Commander. Once again there is a perception in the books that is difficult to display in the show. They need to establish a true reason for the Night's Watch to want him as LC. Showing prowess on the battlefield is a good way to do that in a TV show.

 

[Gr00vus]

As for Jon going to Craster's... It likely just has to do with establishing credibility for naming him Lord Commander. Once again there is a perception in the books that is difficult to display in the show. They need to establish a true reason for the Night's Watch to want him as LC. Showing prowess on the battlefield is a good way to do that in a TV show.

I guess for me it's all becoming a bit too neat that not only is Jon heading back up there, but Bran happens to get over there too, and Lock is tagging along on his quest to find Bran and Rickon, and the renegades have somehow managed to trap and cage Ghost (how the #### did that happen exactly?). It's all too convenient, lazy writing. I'm sure something "unexpected" will still happen - either Maynce's army shows up or the zombies return to force some additional resolutions.

The dialog has gotten a little predictable too. In the Jaime scenes you pretty much knew what many of the responses would be before they were even said.

They've also beaten us over the head with the "whodunnit" exposition, Littlefinger hamming it up all the while - to paraphrase a Scooby post from some time back, he's in twirling mustachio territory at this point.

They also decide to pretty much gloss over the taking of Mereen, including significant plot points concerning Jorah and Selmy, but manage to work in coverage of story time with Grey Worm and pseudo-crucifixions instead.

I'm not against changes (like the exposition of what goes on with the Others), but the last two weeks they haven't added much interesting.

 

[Swing 51]

Someone in the non-book thread posted this link re: Night's King. Not a big deal IMO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/28/game-of-thrones-spoiler_n_5227515.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

[kupcho1]

Once again: TV Show>>>>Books

Don't ever change.

 

[encaitar]

As for Jon going to Craster's... It likely just has to do with establishing credibility for naming him Lord Commander. Once again there is a perception in the books that is difficult to display in the show. They need to establish a true reason for the Night's Watch to want him as LC. Showing prowess on the battlefield is a good way to do that in a TV show.

I guess for me it's all becoming a bit too neat that not only is Jon heading back up there, but Bran happens to get over there too, and Lock is tagging along on his quest to find Bran and Rickon, and the renegades have somehow managed to trap and cage Ghost (how the #### did that happen exactly?). It's all too convenient, lazy writing. I'm sure something "unexpected" will still happen - either Maynce's army shows up or the zombies return to force some additional resolutions.

The dialog has gotten a little predictable too. In the Jaime scenes you pretty much knew what many of the responses would be before they were even said.

They've also beaten us over the head with the "whodunnit" exposition, Littlefinger hamming it up all the while - to paraphrase a Scooby post from some time back, he's in twirling mustachio territory at this point.

They also decide to pretty much gloss over the taking of Mereen, including significant plot points concerning Jorah and Selmy, but manage to work in coverage of story time with Grey Worm and pseudo-crucifixions instead.

I'm not against changes (like the exposition of what goes on with the Others), but the last two weeks they haven't added much interesting.

I get the frustration. They're dumbing down the story. For whatever reason, they've decided that complexity of the plot in the books is too hard to follow on tv. It very well might be. The show is a bit chaotic as is. The last few episodes have jumped around a lot and this is with them already solidifying the plot to basically 3 locations. As long as the changes don't force them to turn a major plot point on its head, then I'm ok with them taking the liberties they take.

They might be trying their best to avoid Martin's failure with books 4 and 5. By then the plot was so spread out it felt like we read 2000 pages and moved 3 feet. Sure the dialogue and the prose was still fantastic, but it didn't feel like very much was accomplished. That won't work in a tv show that needs intrigue and big reveals to keep people's interest.

 

[flysack]

Well...bye.

the levels of my infamy never ceases to amaze me. I'm almost flattered.

This was more about your pouty quit post than your "infamy".

Shhh, I'm warming up to an evil monologue. Don't ruin it.

Are you the "clink guy" from earlier in the thread?

No that was Tanner.

 

[Gr00vus]

As for Jon going to Craster's... It likely just has to do with establishing credibility for naming him Lord Commander. Once again there is a perception in the books that is difficult to display in the show. They need to establish a true reason for the Night's Watch to want him as LC. Showing prowess on the battlefield is a good way to do that in a TV show.

I guess for me it's all becoming a bit too neat that not only is Jon heading back up there, but Bran happens to get over there too, and Lock is tagging along on his quest to find Bran and Rickon, and the renegades have somehow managed to trap and cage Ghost (how the #### did that happen exactly?). It's all too convenient, lazy writing. I'm sure something "unexpected" will still happen - either Maynce's army shows up or the zombies return to force some additional resolutions.

The dialog has gotten a little predictable too. In the Jaime scenes you pretty much knew what many of the responses would be before they were even said.

They've also beaten us over the head with the "whodunnit" exposition, Littlefinger hamming it up all the while - to paraphrase a Scooby post from some time back, he's in twirling mustachio territory at this point.

They also decide to pretty much gloss over the taking of Mereen, including significant plot points concerning Jorah and Selmy, but manage to work in coverage of story time with Grey Worm and pseudo-crucifixions instead.

I'm not against changes (like the exposition of what goes on with the Others), but the last two weeks they haven't added much interesting.

I get the frustration. They're dumbing down the story. For whatever reason, they've decided that complexity of the plot in the books is too hard to follow on tv. It very well might be. The show is a bit chaotic as is. The last few episodes have jumped around a lot and this is with them already solidifying the plot to basically 3 locations. As long as the changes don't force them to turn a major plot point on its head, then I'm ok with them taking the liberties they take.

They might be trying their best to avoid Martin's failure with books 4 and 5. By then the plot was so spread out it felt like we read 2000 pages and moved 3 feet. Sure the dialogue and the prose was still fantastic, but it didn't feel like very much was accomplished. That won't work in a tv show that needs intrigue and big reveals to keep people's interest.

That's kinda how I've felt about the last 2 episodes.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I don't mind the changes so much. With the books, we get Jojen's words and Bran's POVs to determine that Bran can warg better than pretty much anyone ever has. It makes him one of the most powerful beings in Westeros. In the show he's a little boy who has funny dreams. They need a way to show his ability and power. I can certainly see him using Hodor to break free from Craster's as a way to show a snippet of this.

As for Jon going to Craster's... It likely just has to do with establishing credibility for naming him Lord Commander. Once again there is a perception in the books that is difficult to display in the show. They need to establish a true reason for the Night's Watch to want him as LC. Showing prowess on the battlefield is a good way to do that in a TV show.

Maybe, but it seems unnecessary - he can show leadership in repelling two wilding attacks. Certainly the scene where the men stood up to fight with him, goes toward establishing his leadership, but it still seems unnecessary if that is the reason for the diversion.

I think its to string the TV audience along - make them think of the Stark-family reunion, only to see something happen right before Jon and Bran can meet.

 

[shuke]

Did you assume they were taking them to a white walker day care?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Where do we think that white walker hq is?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

skull drinkers name is Karl I think, wasn't there a karl in the book?

 

[Mister Martie]

Where do we think that white walker hq is?

"The Lands of Always Winter" is what I'm reading online.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Points unknown north of the wall.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

skull drinkers name is Karl I think, wasn't there a karl in the book?

Yes. Karl Drogo.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

skull drinkers name is Karl I think, wasn't there a karl in the book?

Yes. Karl Drogo.

It must be exhausting being you.

 

[rascal]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

 

[strykerpks]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

 

[rascal]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

 

[Thunderlips]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

skull drinkers name is Karl I think, wasn't there a karl in the book?

He lived in Gin Alley and apparently ruled the roost in dem parts.

 

[Thunderlips]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

I tend to agree with this. As long as it's done well I'm game for some deviation.

I enjoyed evil Billy Idol at Craster's and I think it will be as good a way as any to unveil full warg-out action. I'm interested how they reconcile the arrival of Jon Snow and gang, but perhaps SmartHodor lays waste to all of the baddies before they get there?

Did those guys all kill each other in the books, did they come back to The Wall or did Martin not say what happened to them?

 

[(HULK)]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

I tend to agree with this. As long as it's done well I'm game for some deviation.

I enjoyed evil Billy Idol at Craster's and I think it will be as good a way as any to unveil full warg-out action. I'm interested how they reconcile the arrival of Jon Snow and gang, but perhaps SmartHodor lays waste to all of the baddies before they get there?

Did those guys all kill each other in the books, did they come back to The Wall or did Martin not say what happened to them?

I think their story is untold.

 

[Tusken Raider]

This guy at crasters wasn't in the book, right? Or was he killed by white walkers quickly in the book?

skull drinkers name is Karl I think, wasn't there a karl in the book?

Yes. Karl Drogo.

You mean Karl "The Mailman" Drogo? Averaged 20 & 10 in Braavosi-ball, & drove a wayn route in the offseason?

Loved that guy...

 

[Sean]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

I tend to agree with this. As long as it's done well I'm game for some deviation.

I enjoyed evil Billy Idol at Craster's and I think it will be as good a way as any to unveil full warg-out action. I'm interested how they reconcile the arrival of Jon Snow and gang, but perhaps SmartHodor lays waste to all of the baddies before they get there?

Did those guys all kill each other in the books, did they come back to The Wall or did Martin not say what happened to them?

Coldhands and his ravens kill them. I think Summer eats them afterwards.

 

[flysack]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

 

[Kraft...]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

right, plus in the books Tyrion really likes Tommen. Even to a point where he tries to steal him away from Cerci.

 

[sn0mm1s]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

He isn't weakening the Targaryens - he is strengthening one while weakening the other.

Let's assume that Aegon isn't a fake - then he has a better birth-right claim than Dany. If the two go conquer Westeros together *Aegon* is the ruler by birth - not Dany.

Dany doesn't need Aegon, she has dragons, Unsullied, and a huge army (much bigger than any sellsword army that Aegon could hire). Dany already is a conqueror.

So, let's assume that Tyrion wants to be on the winning side - and we know that by numbers and prior deeds that is Dany over Aegon. Tyrion plants that seed to essentially cause turmoil in Westeros (an invading army) and in all likelihood Aegon gets killed (leaving Dany with no legitimate rivals and a weakened Westeros).

IMO, it is Tyrion playing a longshot (IIRC he is surprised it worked) to strengthen Dany's (and what he wants to be his) position.

 

[encaitar]

He isn't playing two sides here. Tyrion expected to be with Aegon as he went to Westeros. Tyrion is motivated by a few things IMO, revenge against Cersei being #1.

He blatantly tells Aegon that he'll be viewed as a beggar if he shows up to Dany now. He wants him to go to Westeros and start winning some battles and taking out some of Dany's competitors. That way, when Dany shows up, he'll be able to give her something tangible.

It all obviously gets messed up when he visits a whore and gets captured by Mormont, but that's where I think Tyrion's motivations lie.

 

[flysack]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

He isn't weakening the Targaryens - he is strengthening one while weakening the other.

Let's assume that Aegon isn't a fake - then he has a better birth-right claim than Dany. If the two go conquer Westeros together *Aegon* is the ruler by birth - not Dany.

Dany doesn't need Aegon, she has dragons, Unsullied, and a huge army (much bigger than any sellsword army that Aegon could hire). Dany already is a conqueror.

So, let's assume that Tyrion wants to be on the winning side - and we know that by numbers and prior deeds that is Dany over Aegon. Tyrion plants that seed to essentially cause turmoil in Westeros (an invading army) and in all likelihood Aegon gets killed (leaving Dany with no legitimate rivals and a weakened Westeros).

IMO, it is Tyrion playing a longshot (IIRC he is surprised it worked) to strengthen Dany's (and what he wants to be his) position.

I guess. It's not like Tyrion knows a whole lot about Dany at that point though. Just hearsay. And even though he's heard she has dragons, he hasn't seen them yet and remember that Tyrion is the most skeptical character in the book. He likes the Night's Watch but thinks their talk of white walkers is superstition and nonsense. Same with anything mystical or supernatural. I don't know that he'd bother helping one side or the other.

 

[flysack]

He isn't playing two sides here. Tyrion expected to be with Aegon as he went to Westeros. Tyrion is motivated by a few things IMO, revenge against Cersei being #1.

He blatantly tells Aegon that he'll be viewed as a beggar if he shows up to Dany now. He wants him to go to Westeros and start winning some battles and taking out some of Dany's competitors. That way, when Dany shows up, he'll be able to give her something tangible.

It all obviously gets messed up when he visits a whore and gets captured by Mormont, but that's where I think Tyrion's motivations lie.

I don't know about this. That line, "I can't believe he fell for that" (or something like that) indicated he was suckering Aegon into doing something stupid. Did he really just want a free ride back to the Westeros that wants him dead? He's safer where he's at.

Though I do buy the 'messing with Cersei' motive.

 

[John Bender]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

He isn't weakening the Targaryens - he is strengthening one while weakening the other.

Let's assume that Aegon isn't a fake - then he has a better birth-right claim than Dany. If the two go conquer Westeros together *Aegon* is the ruler by birth - not Dany.

Dany doesn't need Aegon, she has dragons, Unsullied, and a huge army (much bigger than any sellsword army that Aegon could hire). Dany already is a conqueror.

So, let's assume that Tyrion wants to be on the winning side - and we know that by numbers and prior deeds that is Dany over Aegon. Tyrion plants that seed to essentially cause turmoil in Westeros (an invading army) and in all likelihood Aegon gets killed (leaving Dany with no legitimate rivals and a weakened Westeros).

IMO, it is Tyrion playing a longshot (IIRC he is surprised it worked) to strengthen Dany's (and what he wants to be his) position.

I guess. It's not like Tyrion knows a whole lot about Dany at that point though. Just hearsay. And even though he's heard she has dragons, he hasn't seen them yet and remember that Tyrion is the most skeptical character in the book. He likes the Night's Watch but thinks their talk of white walkers is superstition and nonsense. Same with anything mystical or supernatural. I don't know that he'd bother helping one side or the other.

Not really... In one of the first chapters of Got, Martin seems to very blatantly let Tyrion display how fascinated he is by dragons. He talks to Snow about dreaming of them, standing inside their skulls where they are displayed as well as having dreams of them.

He believes in dragons, I'm nearly certain of that. I'll try to find the passage.

 

[kupcho1]

Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? .

:snicker:

 

[rascal]

You think there is something to Westeros only knowing of the Others, while Essos only (in general terms) knows R'hllor?

 

[sn0mm1s]

When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?

IIRC before Tyrion was taken by Jorah, he had figured out who Griff/Aegon is. He told Aegon to take the Golden Company to Westeros because Dany probably wouldn't believe him and/or she would take her sweet time doing it herself. I don't recall the exact reason why but he planted the seed for him to try to take Westeros ASAP.

Yeah. I just don't understand his motive to have them try and take Westeros.

I never understood this either. Why did Tyrion give a crap? Seems like he was trying to weaken the Targaryans by sending Aegon the Idiot back without hooking up with Dany and her army. Does Tyrion just want to sew chaos there? Trying to send a headache Cersei's way? He certainly can't be trying to help House Lannister. Odd...

He isn't weakening the Targaryens - he is strengthening one while weakening the other.

Let's assume that Aegon isn't a fake - then he has a better birth-right claim than Dany. If the two go conquer Westeros together *Aegon* is the ruler by birth - not Dany.

Dany doesn't need Aegon, she has dragons, Unsullied, and a huge army (much bigger than any sellsword army that Aegon could hire). Dany already is a conqueror.

So, let's assume that Tyrion wants to be on the winning side - and we know that by numbers and prior deeds that is Dany over Aegon. Tyrion plants that seed to essentially cause turmoil in Westeros (an invading army) and in all likelihood Aegon gets killed (leaving Dany with no legitimate rivals and a weakened Westeros).

IMO, it is Tyrion playing a longshot (IIRC he is surprised it worked) to strengthen Dany's (and what he wants to be his) position.

I guess. It's not like Tyrion knows a whole lot about Dany at that point though. Just hearsay. And even though he's heard she has dragons, he hasn't seen them yet and remember that Tyrion is the most skeptical character in the book. He likes the Night's Watch but thinks their talk of white walkers is superstition and nonsense. Same with anything mystical or supernatural. I don't know that he'd bother helping one side or the other.

All of Essos (and some of Westeros) knows she has dragons. Also, hearsay or not, she basically conquered all of Slaver's Bay one city after another *without* significant use of her dragons. What has Aegon done? Nothing. What does Aegon have? Maybe a single company of sellswords. What problems can he cause if he joins Dany? Fracturing of loyalties and internal conflict. A legit Aegon is one of the worst things that could happen to Dany.

Tyrion wants revenge - but more than that he wants his rights. Tyrion is the heir to Casterly Rock. He asked for those rights and Tywin said no - he could have Winterfell instead. The best way for him to get his rights is to back Dany and help her succeed in any way he can.

 

[sn0mm1s]

You think there is something to Westeros only knowing of the Others, while Essos only (in general terms) knows R'hllor?

No, in fact, I think this is why the Dragon Lords of old (Targs and the other Houses) *didn't* go to Westeros until their homeland was destroyed. Tyrion ponders why the dragon lords didn't come to Westeros sooner (somewhere in ADWD - don't remember the chapter) and likely it was because of the Others.

 

[encaitar]

He isn't playing two sides here. Tyrion expected to be with Aegon as he went to Westeros. Tyrion is motivated by a few things IMO, revenge against Cersei being #1.

He blatantly tells Aegon that he'll be viewed as a beggar if he shows up to Dany now. He wants him to go to Westeros and start winning some battles and taking out some of Dany's competitors. That way, when Dany shows up, he'll be able to give her something tangible.

It all obviously gets messed up when he visits a whore and gets captured by Mormont, but that's where I think Tyrion's motivations lie.

I don't know about this. That line, "I can't believe he fell for that" (or something like that) indicated he was suckering Aegon into doing something stupid. Did he really just want a free ride back to the Westeros that wants him dead? He's safer where he's at.

Though I do buy the 'messing with Cersei' motive.

I think we have to consider what Tyrion's goals were in getting Aegon to Westeros. There's no way he could've planned on getting captured by Mormont. I don't have any doubt that Tyrion expected to be with the Golden Company wherever they ended up. I just think he was surprised that Aegon actually listened to him.

Now, his intentions may not have been noble wrt Aegon, but I think Tyrion's goal was clearly to get back to his homeland.

Tyrion also seems to have given Aegon some good advice. Whether he knew it or not is another question, but it looks to be good IMO. Dany was never going to marry Aegon, no matter what Jon Connington thought. She already has other offers that are better than his, whether he's truly a Targ or not. The golden company would've wound up in the middle of the Meereen war. Instead they've established a solid base in Westeros and are possibly forming powerful allies already. We shall see what happens when Dany finally shows up, but I have a feeling Aegon will be in a much stronger place by that time.

 

[thecatch]

You think there is something to Westeros only knowing of the Others, while Essos only (in general terms) knows R'hllor?

No, in fact, I think this is why the Dragon Lords of old (Targs and the other Houses) *didn't* go to Westeros until their homeland was destroyed. Tyrion ponders why the dragon lords didn't come to Westeros sooner (somewhere in ADWD - don't remember the chapter) and likely it was because of the Others.

Weren't the others bottled up long before the Targs came over?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think people should prepare for major deviations from the story. I dont think these changes up North are all about pacing.

Who cares really? If they take his world and recreate the story in a new interesting way does it matter if it is not in the books?

I am curious how much they show of the Ironborn stuff and the Dornish prince courting Dany. TV viewers might not have the patience for introducing huge chunks of story to cover in seasons 5 or 6. They will want resolution on existing story and I expect HBO to capitulate to that.

I tend to agree with this. As long as it's done well I'm game for some deviation. I enjoyed evil Billy Idol at Craster's and I think it will be as good a way as any to unveil full warg-out action. I'm interested how they reconcile the arrival of Jon Snow and gang, but perhaps SmartHodor lays waste to all of the baddies before they get there?

Did those guys all kill each other in the books, did they come back to The Wall or did Martin not say what happened to them?

Coldhands and his ravens kill them. I think Summer eats them afterwards.

I thought they likely ended up killed by walkers and turned into wights.

 

[Psychopav]

Just my two cents after seeing the episode -

Both the wife and I are done with the show. We were rolling our eyes most of the time. Why was Bran ending up at Craster's necessary? Did they need an excuse to show some more rape scenes? It's totally pointless - Bran's story with him and Cold Hands being chased by the White Walkers was intense and thrilling enough. What's the effing point? And that part with the White Walkers and the baby? Really?

Debate all you want. I see some of you like the plane crash and others loathe it like me. I'm done with this show.

Phourced.

You're using this as to divert suspicion to your alias trolling in the tv only thread, aren't you? I'm on to you pal...

Vote gnatberries. Sorry, it's time.

 

[KarmaPolice]

goodness, they have to spell out all the plots to tv viewers. littlefinger cant seem to do anything mysterious on the show.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

Liked the episode alot. Getting back on track. It is different and more spelled out than the books but entertaining every week. And this week felt like some justice was done.

 

[encaitar]

To be fair they kinda have to. The book has so many hints that it becomes obvious without needing everything spelled out. The show users would probably never know who actually started the war if the show didn't tell them.

Although, I didn't like how crazy they made Lisa. I know she WAS crazy in the book, but when Littlefinger kills her it will win him points with the audience IMO.