HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (1 Viewer)

[Tom Hagen]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

 

[Clifford]

Sooo still no release date from this perverted nerd-slug?

 

[Clifford]

BTW, this is hilarious, or at least I thought it was

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/26/enter-ye-myne-mystic-world-of-gayng-raype-what-the-r-stands-for-in-george-r-r-martin/

 

[Capella]

How many books left? 2 or 3?

 

[Swing 51]

HarperCollins has apparently officially confirmed that Winds of Winter will not be released in 2015. It now seems virtually certain the tv series will end well before the final book is released.

They're going to release the dunk and egg (or whatever) and other prequels I think all together in one book this year. Wind next year. Dream of spring ..... Who the #### knows.

No new Dunk/Egg stories right? First three just packaged in to one volume?

 

[DCThunder]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

This is all so true. Reading any of the fan forum boards instantly reveals how obsessed some people are with this stuff. I've read all the canon stuff, but not any fan fiction.

 

[DCThunder]

HarperCollins has apparently officially confirmed that Winds of Winter will not be released in 2015. It now seems virtually certain the tv series will end well before the final book is released.

They're going to release the dunk and egg (or whatever) and other prequels I think all together in one book this year. Wind next year. Dream of spring ..... Who the #### knows.

No new Dunk/Egg stories right? First three just packaged in to one volume?

Could there be a Dunk/Egg story about what happened at Summerhall? Obviously they are both older and no longer Dunk/Egg, but that would be a story to read.

 

[Rick James]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

This is all so true. Reading any of the fan forum boards instantly reveals how obsessed some people are with this stuff. I've read all the canon stuff, but not any fan fiction.

people are writing fan fiction and expounding on crackpot theories because GRRM is taking 5 years between books, not the other way around.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

How many books left? 2 or 3?

Reportedly 2, but it remains uncertain. The titles of the 2 books to finish the series were announced long ago, but of course there are no guarantees with this thing.

 

[Capella]

Hmm. Seems like he will be able to get through 2 more. Not before HBO though.

 

[DCThunder]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

This is all so true. Reading any of the fan forum boards instantly reveals how obsessed some people are with this stuff. I've read all the canon stuff, but not any fan fiction.

people are writing fan fiction and expounding on crackpot theories because GRRM is taking 5 years between books, not the other way around.

I doubt GRRM reads the fan fiction stuff, but i'd bet his smallfolk tell him the theories that are expounded at length on the forums.

 

[flysack]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

This is all so true. Reading any of the fan forum boards instantly reveals how obsessed some people are with this stuff. I've read all the canon stuff, but not any fan fiction.

people are writing fan fiction and expounding on crackpot theories because GRRM is taking 5 years between books, not the other way around.

This strikes me as a circular dynamic, not a one-way road in any direction.

 

[flysack]

I was just clowning about him having them all written. Of course he doesn't.

On a serious note, I suspect the proliferation of the internet has something to do with it. There are so many theories about what's going on in his books (R+L=J, etc.) and Martin strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to keep people surprised. I do believe has a clear vision - had it from book 1 - but now is struggling not with what to write, but how to write it so it's interesting and fresh to the swathes of fans who've debated and discussed the series ad infinitum.

His turtle speed might be our fault, in a way. He's always written rather slow (pre-internet explosion) but now the net might have made it even worse.

I agree. I picture him coming up with a great plot idea only to find out that SerPounce183 on the message boards has already written fan fiction about it.

This is all so true. Reading any of the fan forum boards instantly reveals how obsessed some people are with this stuff. I've read all the canon stuff, but not any fan fiction.

people are writing fan fiction and expounding on crackpot theories because GRRM is taking 5 years between books, not the other way around.

I doubt GRRM reads the fan fiction stuff, but i'd bet his smallfolk tell him the theories that are expounded at length on the forums.

He's on the net, uses twitter, etc. and like most writers, sits at a computer all day. I also doubt he reads fan fiction but I'd be shocked if he didn't read messageboards now and then about all the theories and reader assumptions. If anything to keep in touch with his reader's minds.

 

[flysack]

How many books left? 2 or 3?

Reportedly 2, but it remains uncertain. The titles of the 2 books to finish the series were announced long ago, but of course there are no guarantees with this thing.

I forgot the names, but the next is Winter and the last is Summer or something. Ice & Fire to close out the song.

 

[Thunderlips]

I think it would be a big mistake for Martin to change anything to his story just because of internet speculation/theory. If the big question marks were answered already by the fans....so be it. The books will still sell and people will still enjoy the show. It'd be far worse for his legacy (because let's keep in mind, since the written word is pretty much eternal, there will be people being shocked by The Red Wedding until the end of times) if he 11th hour changes Jon Snow's lineage just for a cheap pop from his current audience.

 

[DCThunder]

How many books left? 2 or 3?

Reportedly 2, but it remains uncertain. The titles of the 2 books to finish the series were announced long ago, but of course there are no guarantees with this thing.

I forgot the names, but the next is Winter and the last is Summer or something. Ice & Fire to close out the song.

Last book is supposed to be "A Dream of Spring", I believe.

 

[Gr00vus]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

 

[flysack]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

 

[Gr00vus]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

Sorry if this was posted already. I never saw the original post - otherwise I would have read the books sooner.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think he knows the ultimate ending. I don't think he knows how to get there without coming off as a hack.

 

[strykerpks]

I thought this had been posted in this very thread. He knows the ending. He knows people have figured it out, but he's leaving it at that.

And no, he's not finished with them and sitting on them. He calls that "Ridiculous"

Also, Season 5 trailer

 

[Sinrman]

I don't think he has them done, I actually think the story kind of got away from him and he is really struggling on how to get it back to his original vision. There is so much going on he's just going to need to kill a few people simply to extinguish some plot threads so he can draw things to a close in 2 books. He may be scared that people won't like how it finishes (heck, most long series like this have a lot of people who hate how they finish anyways).

I also think there is an element of marketing involved (scarcity or delay makes more people talk about it, which increases his probable audience). Sure, some might quit reading because of the delays, but vastly dwarfed by the number of people exposed to it in other ways.

In the end though, I think he just doesn't prioritize finishing it - at some point he just accepted that the HBO show would likely pass him up, and so there is no urgency to get it done. As long as he's still writing it, he is still relevant.

Eh, yeah kinda..

The way I see it is that this has been the pinnacle of his career. It's been ongoing for nearly 20 years now, and he still has at least 2 more books to finish. As a writer (albeit not even in the same galaxy as him, as most other writers are) I can tell you that there can be certainly be a certain amount of burnout in writing things. If you read his books, they are MASSIVE, like 800+ pagers mostly. And I guarantee what he writes is way more than that. Just some gets edited out. Perhaps he will save some of it for the show, or is saving some things that didn't make the cut for an "after the series" tome of some sort. Who knows? Writer's block can certainly come into play too, although he doesn't strike me as one who has too many problems with that. Personally I think the biggest issue is how ginormous this series has become and the demand for his time with interviews, showing up at conventions, working with the TV series, etc. Now how much is HIS doing, and how much is others' doing? I think he enjoys the limelight a good deal and maybe has spent more time doing side projects and such rather than facing the huge task of finishing the series...?

 

[flysack]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

Sorry if this was posted already. I never saw the original post - otherwise I would have read the books sooner.

No, no. You're thinking of :honda:

:sehorn: is an old school way of marking a thread so you can find it later. Or in this case a post.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The Mountain, officially strongest man in Westeros

 

[Gr00vus]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

Sorry if this was posted already. I never saw the original post - otherwise I would have read the books sooner.

No, no. You're thinking of :honda:

:sehorn: is an old school way of marking a thread so you can find it later. Or in this case a post.

Thanks for clarifying. As it turns out that author and series are discussed in the "what are you reading" thread here in the FFA, but I never go in there (I only know that now because I searched after your post).

 

[sn0mm1s]

I think he knows the ultimate ending. I don't think he knows how to get there without coming off as a hack.

I don't know about that ... if you have read any of his other novels his endings are more bittersweet. I haven't read anything of his that is truly a "happy" ending.

 

[The Duff Man]

Saw a childrens book was out set in Westeros.

Pissed me off when I saw it.....where is my book m@@her f@@ker!!

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I'm holding onto hope that this next book is like a couple thousand pages and the end of the series.

 

[Clifford]

I thought this had been posted in this very thread. He knows the ending. He knows people have figured it out, but he's leaving it at that.

And no, he's not finished with them and sitting on them. He calls that "Ridiculous"

Also, Season 5 trailer

but at the 92Y event for his new book, The World of Ice & Fire, author George R. R. Martin told HuffPost Entertainment one theory that he thinks is the most ridiculous of all.

WTF

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

http://io9.com/grrms-original-game-of-thrones-outline-was-very-very-d-1683950199

GRRM's original outline to pitch the series. Minot spoiler upfront about 5 characters who will survive all the books.

Maybe a hint about Jon Snow's lineage or who he may not be related to. There's a blacked out paragraph though.

 

[Sinn Fein]

http://io9.com/grrms-original-game-of-thrones-outline-was-very-very-d-1683950199

GRRM's original outline to pitch the series. Minot spoiler upfront about 5 characters who will survive all the books.

Maybe a hint about Jon Snow's lineage or who he may not be related to. There's a blacked out paragraph though.

A lot of deviation from the original plot - at least as the details go.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Spoiler

Changes to the story aside, that's pretty close to confirmation that Jon Snow lives IMO.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Spoiler

Changes to the story aside, that's pretty close to confirmation that Jon Snow lives IMO.

 

[Vrana]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

Sorry if this was posted already. I never saw the original post - otherwise I would have read the books sooner.

No, no. You're thinking of :honda:

:sehorn: is an old school way of marking a thread so you can find it later. Or in this case a post.

Thanks for clarifying. As it turns out that author and series are discussed in the "what are you reading" thread here in the FFA, but I never go in there (I only know that now because I searched after your post).

I also highly recommend the First Law books. There is a trilogy and then three standalone books that have some characters from the original trilogy. All of them are excellent.

I don't know if I put them on the same level as the first three ASoIaF books, but they are better than Feast and Dance.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Spoiler

Changes to the story aside, that's pretty close to confirmation that Jon Snow lives IMO.

Right. And as to lineage;

Spoiler

maybe he's not a stark at all if he and Arya were going to be able to give in to their temptations once his parents were revealed in the final book. I guess they could be cousins, as that could be acceptable in this context maybe. I dunno.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

 

[Thunderlips]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think he knows the ultimate ending. I don't think he knows how to get there without coming off as a hack.

I don't know about that ... if you have read any of his other novels his endings are more bittersweet. I haven't read anything of his that is truly a "happy" ending.

Yeah -- given that there aren't really any good guys or bad guys I was already expecting this. Then I read Fever Dream and was convinced.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The Mountain, officially strongest man in Westeros

I don't care that he only lifted it an inch and I don't care that he had support on either side if it dipped even slightly and I don't care that his "5 steps" covered maybe one foot in total. Moving 1433 pounds using only your body is crazy.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

I dont think so, because besides season1, I dont think they have mentioned it since

 

[psychobillies]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

He might go to the wall to look for his kids.

 

[sn0mm1s]

If you're looking for something to read while waiting, I highly recommend Joe Abercrobie's First Law trilogy. I found it as entertaining as Martin's first three books. Read all 3 books in a month. Now I have to read his subsequent books...

:sehorn:

Sorry if this was posted already. I never saw the original post - otherwise I would have read the books sooner.

No, no. You're thinking of :honda:

:sehorn: is an old school way of marking a thread so you can find it later. Or in this case a post.

Thanks for clarifying. As it turns out that author and series are discussed in the "what are you reading" thread here in the FFA, but I never go in there (I only know that now because I searched after your post).

I also highly recommend the First Law books. There is a trilogy and then three standalone books that have some characters from the original trilogy. All of them are excellent.

I don't know if I put them on the same level as the first three ASoIaF books, but they are better than Feast and Dance.

Not really a fan of the First Law books - too many plot holes. Unfortunately, there aren't many books/series out there that have the grit and the story that ASOIAF has.

 

[flysack]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

He might go to the wall to look for his kids.

Or his kids might know the secret....

 

[sn0mm1s]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

He might go to the wall to look for his kids.

Or his kids might know the secret....

It most likely will be revealed by Bran now that Bran can see the past, present, and future through the trees. I am sure that we will see Ned praying about Jon in the Winterfell Godswood. I have a hard time believing that Howland Reed would tell his kids such an incredibly important secret.

 

[Kraft...]

A book about Roberts Rebellion and the build up would be awesome

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

He might go to the wall to look for his kids.

Or his kids might know the secret....

It most likely will be revealed by Bran now that Bran can see the past, present, and future through the trees. I am sure that we will see Ned praying about Jon in the Winterfell Godswood. I have a hard time believing that Howland Reed would tell his kids such an incredibly important secret.

Has there been any suggestion that Howland Reed has been cast for the show? I'm pretty certain he's not appeared so far. Agree with the theory this could come from tv-Bran. I'd not realized the Jon Snow/Lyanna Stark plot line has not yet been raised in the tv show.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Do tv only watchers have any curiosity regarding Jon Snow's mother or lineage? I'm wondering now if the show is passing the books, if that will be one of the big details kept off the screen. We will need something to look forward to and have revealed in the books alone I would think.

If it's going to be broken on the show, it will probably be very vaguely hinted at in a Jon Snow/ Melissandri conversation/confrontation and then reinforced by a Tyrion or Dani vision. At this point in the game, the only reliable people alive who could convey the info are Benjen and Howland Reed. I don't think Benjen's coming back and Reed has no reason to go to The Wall or any principle characters come to him.

He might go to the wall to look for his kids.

Or his kids might know the secret....

It most likely will be revealed by Bran now that Bran can see the past, present, and future through the trees. I am sure that we will see Ned praying about Jon in the Winterfell Godswood. I have a hard time believing that Howland Reed would tell his kids such an incredibly important secret.

Has there been any suggestion that Howland Reed has been cast for the show? I'm pretty certain he's not appeared so far. Agree with the theory this could come from tv-Bran. I'd not realized the Jon Snow/Lyanna Stark plot line has not yet been raised in the tv show.

It really hasn't been explicitly spelled out in the books either.

 

[Scoresman]

so is jon a targaryan or what?

 

[sn0mm1s]

so is jon a targaryan or what?

A legitimate one? We don't know. It appears that he is at least a ******* Targaryen.

 

[flysack]

so is jon a targaryan or what?

Wolf-dragon hybrid. Big teeth, breathes fire, but likes to sniff other dragon's butts and eat his own feces.