HC Mike Tomlin, PIT

[fred_1_15301]

He’s one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Record notwithstanding.

Y’all could do a lot worse than Tomlin, so I’d be careful what you wish for.

He’s really not though.

How many NFL Head Coaches have been hired and fired during his time as the Steelers' Head Coach?
Miami has seen at least 6 or 7 if not more during his time in Pittsburgh, that's just 1 team

The Steelers management has always put a huge emphasis on stability and for the most part it has worked very well. However, why is it that people consider Tomlin some type of great coach? He has a very good win/loss record but is that really due to his coaching or just having a hall of fame QB. I actually believe last year was his best coaching year ever but the team fell short as usual. Can you give me one example of a playoff game where he was the superior coach? And now he refuses to get rid of the worst offensive coordinator (maybe ever)? This is year 3 for Canada! I just don’t get the defense of Tomlin anymore. He was a good coach at one point but the league has changed and he has zero ability or inclination to adapt. But yeah I know I’m in the minority here.

Kenny Pickett isn’t the answer.

IMO coaches look good when they have a Ben Roethlisburger, then look bad when they have a Kenny Pickett.

They were a 12-4 team as recently as 2020.

I’m not buying that he forgot how to coach or hasn’t adapted to the current NFL. He just doesn’t have He’s one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Record notwithstanding.

Y’all could do a lot worse than Tomlin, so I’d be careful what you wish for.

He’s really not though.

How many NFL Head Coaches have been hired and fired during his time as the Steelers' Head Coach?
Miami has seen at least 6 or 7 if not more during his time in Pittsburgh, that's just 1 team

The Steelers management has always put a huge emphasis on stability and for the most part it has worked very well. However, why is it that people consider Tomlin some type of great coach? He has a very good win/loss record but is that really due to his coaching or just having a hall of fame QB. I actually believe last year was his best coaching year ever but the team fell short as usual. Can you give me one example of a playoff game where he was the superior coach? And now he refuses to get rid of the worst offensive coordinator (maybe ever)? This is year 3 for Canada! I just don’t get the defense of Tomlin anymore. He was a good coach at one point but the league has changed and he has zero ability or inclination to adapt. But yeah I know I’m in the minority here.

Kenny Pickett isn’t the answer.

IMO coaches look good when they have a Ben Roethlisburger, then look bad when they have a Kenny Pickett.

They were a 12-4 team as recently as 2020.

I’m not buying that he forgot how to coach or hasn’t adapted to the current NFL. He just doesn’t have the QB.

It’s not a hill I need to die on though. If y’all want him fired, I won’t try to convince you otherwise. I just know Tomlin is a massive upgrade over a whole lot of guys.

completely agree with you about Pickett not being the answer but let’s not pretend that his late season failures started last year. Again I cannot recall a single playoff game where I felt that he actually outcoached his counterpart. I may be wrong but nothing is coming to me off the top of my head. Now a lot of the blame definitely goes on the players (Ben included) but his teams in the playoffs just did not feel prepared.

I know I’m coming across very negative. He’s not the worst coach in football. Not even in the bottom half. I just don’t see anything special about him. His decision to retain Canada for 3 years is insulting at best and fireable at worst. But I don’t expect anything to change.

ETA - sorry for the format of my post. I think I accidentally did a double quote and didn’t know how to fix it.

 

[-OZ-]

get it bro. From the outsiders view, he looks like a great coach. But just take a look at his playoff track record

He looks like an above average coach. Even with the playoffs. Above .600, 12 playoffs in 17 years ,two Super Bowl appearances, one championship. That’s not a bad coach.
Granted, a lot of that was with Ben but the same can be said about BB.

 

[Steeler]

Can't be fearful of what might be

You could say the Steelers should not live in their fears.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

 

[Gatorman]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

This, and the follow up: How quickly would half of the NFL try to hire him?

I'd liken this to when Miami pushed out Don Shula for Jimmy Johnson. Shula had some down years and was married to a D coordinator that everyone knew was bad except Shula (similar to Tomlin and Canada). Miami got rid of him for Johnson, who was a stellar name that was lobbying for the job (no one is lobbying for the Pittsburgh job, sorry), so Huizinga, who wanted to win a championship jettisoned Shula and Brought in Jimmy. From there the phins went from being the winningest team in history to a 20 year doormat and in some cases laughingstock. (The rise of Bill B and the Pats may or may not have happened on Shula's watch. Who knows: Jimmy had no idea who Brady was when he got drafted. Shula, being a more offensive guy may have thought differently)

Miami, after forever, finally seems to have possibly figured this all out, but do Steeler fans want 20 years in the wilderness vs a coach that at least gets them to 9 wins every year?

 

[crushedspirit]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

Good question

An up and comer like Ben Johnson in Detroit is someone to interview. Someone who has an eye for the offense and how to get them most out of what's available. Like the way he balances his play calling, and you need a fresh mind with new ideas like his if you want to develop a proper scheme while grooming a young QB.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Trendy offenses, like egotistical wide receivers, don't win championships. Defense wins championships. The Chiefs are the exception that proves the rule....but they have Andy Reid and Spags.

 

[crushedspirit]

Hiring a good DC is also a must for any new HC.

I prefer an OC's mind as HC, but that's just a preference of mine due to the modern game. Just in the last 5 SB finals, out of those 10 teams, 9 of them had a top-10 offense while 3 had a top-10 defense.

I think that saying is ancient history, and this coming from someone who is old, LOL.

 

[H8fulHuck]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

Eric Bieniemy. Ridiculous he hasn’t landed a head coach position by now. Knows how to out coach opponents even in the playoffs. Sign him before someone else does.

 

[BigJim®]

Would love him back in MN though he probably would not want to be on a team with a GM who acts like he's playing FF, PPR format.

 

[Ghost Rider]

get it bro. From the outsiders view, he looks like a great coach. But just take a look at his playoff track record

He looks like an above average coach. Even with the playoffs. Above .600, 12 playoffs in 17 years ,two Super Bowl appearances, one championship. That’s not a bad coach.
Granted, a lot of that was with Ben but the same can be said about BB.

The problem with that is that most of his playoff success was in his first four seasons (a team he inherited from Cowher a little a year removed from already having won a Super Bowl). In the last 13 seasons, the Steelers have failed to win a playoff game in 11 of those seasons, they have a grand total of 3 wins, and saw their defenses taken to the woodshed in losses to Tim Tebow, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. Tomlin is a great regular season head coach, but he is basically Mary Schottenheimer in the playoffs for most of his head coaching career.

 

[Steeler]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

This, and the follow up: How quickly would half of the NFL try to hire him?

I'd liken this to when Miami pushed out Don Shula for Jimmy Johnson. Shula had some down years and was married to a D coordinator that everyone knew was bad except Shula (similar to Tomlin and Canada). Miami got rid of him for Johnson, who was a stellar name that was lobbying for the job (no one is lobbying for the Pittsburgh job, sorry), so Huizinga, who wanted to win a championship jettisoned Shula and Brought in Jimmy. From there the phins went from being the winningest team in history to a 20 year doormat and in some cases laughingstock. (The rise of Bill B and the Pats may or may not have happened on Shula's watch. Who knows: Jimmy had no idea who Brady was when he got drafted. Shula, being a more offensive guy may have thought differently)

Miami, after forever, finally seems to have possibly figured this all out, but do Steeler fans want 20 years in the wilderness vs a coach that at least gets them to 9 wins every year?

Anecdotal exampled exist on both sides... The Eagles gave up on Andy Reed and then the Eagles won a SB and lost a SB. Getting rid of a coach who has grown stale (for lack of a better term) doesn't always produce bad results.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Getting rid of a coach who has grown stale (for lack of a better term) doesn't always produce bad results.

Sure. I don't see anyone saying it always produces bad results.

 

[Steeler]

Tomlin is a great regular season head coach

Not calling you out, but using this as a springboard to say this: I need to spend more time in the "post here when coaches do something dumb" thread... Tomlin is stuck in the past and doesn't use analytics for anything... he's something 1 for the last 20 attempts on reviews... burns timeouts... doesn't go for 2 appropriately... settles for FGs when he shouldn't...etc.

 

[Steeler]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

I trust the Steelers to find a decent replacement... they have a pretty good track record of hiring coaches. However, Tomlin's time in Pittsburgh has expired, IMO. However, I realize that's not the Steeler way and he'll probably be there for as long as he wants to be the Steelers coach. I just wish he would modernize and embrace some new ideas.

 

[Steeler]

Also, how many fanbases, if give the chance to choose their teams outcome for the next 10 years, would choose 10 years of no losing seasons without winning a SB? Tomlin's recent track record isn't very good as others have said.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Also, how many fanbases, if give the chance to choose their teams outcome for the next 10 years, would choose 10 years of no losing seasons without winning a SB? Tomlin's recent track record isn't very good as others have said.

And that's the real question.

Would you rather the Rams over the last 10 years or the Steelers?

Good points to be made on both sides.

 

[Joe Bryant]

With all that said, if I were a team owner, I'd absolutely go with an offensive minded head coach.

 

[-OZ-]

With all that said, if I were a team owner, I'd absolutely go with an offensive minded head coach.

While i am a big fan of Vrabel, I’d generally. Or you absolutely need a good OC. I feel like bienemy would have helped a LOT.

 

[Gatorman]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

This, and the follow up: How quickly would half of the NFL try to hire him?

I'd liken this to when Miami pushed out Don Shula for Jimmy Johnson. Shula had some down years and was married to a D coordinator that everyone knew was bad except Shula (similar to Tomlin and Canada). Miami got rid of him for Johnson, who was a stellar name that was lobbying for the job (no one is lobbying for the Pittsburgh job, sorry), so Huizinga, who wanted to win a championship jettisoned Shula and Brought in Jimmy. From there the phins went from being the winningest team in history to a 20 year doormat and in some cases laughingstock. (The rise of Bill B and the Pats may or may not have happened on Shula's watch. Who knows: Jimmy had no idea who Brady was when he got drafted. Shula, being a more offensive guy may have thought differently)

Miami, after forever, finally seems to have possibly figured this all out, but do Steeler fans want 20 years in the wilderness vs a coach that at least gets them to 9 wins every year?

Anecdotal exampled exist on both sides... The Eagles gave up on Andy Reed and then the Eagles won a SB and lost a SB. Getting rid of a coach who has grown stale (for lack of a better term) doesn't always produce bad results.

So did KC, and I'd argue you'd rather be KC than Philly in this example.

Tomlin gets to be mentioned like Shula and like Bill B in these types of examples. Perhaps his coaching tree has "dried up" and maybe a change of scenery will work for both parties if this happens, but, who replaces Tomlin in this case? It's one thing when a strong hire comes in for "the guy" but also remember Tomlin is the "blackest" of the Black head coaches now (overtaking Tony Dungy in his prime) so not only do you have to replace this guy, but froma "league optics" perspective it has to be a guy like Bienemy or that whole craziness starts up again. The Steelers are in a box here. They need to convince Tomlin to go to the booth Sean Payton style AND find a high profile coach, and hope he is a minority hire to not have the dogs come after them.

Edit to add the Brian FLores example: FLores was a defense guy and the offense sucked in MIami. Now the Phins tried to bring McDaniel in as Offensive coordinator the year everything went south but shanahan blocked this by making McD the OC in SF. Not sure it changes history here if McDaniel comes to Miami 1 year earlier bc Flores was such a turd, but can TOmlin grab a guy from the shanahan/McVay tree to run his offense?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Tomlin is a great regular season head coach

Not calling you out, but using this as a springboard to say this: I need to spend more time in the "post here when coaches do something dumb" thread... Tomlin is stuck in the past and doesn't use analytics for anything... he's something 1 for the last 20 attempts on reviews... burns timeouts... doesn't go for 2 appropriately... settles for FGs when he shouldn't...etc.

I get all that, but I am just looking at it from a macro standpoint (his record), Getting to 9-8 last year with a bad rookie QB and no TJ Watt for a lot of the season was impressive as hell. And I remember 2019 where he got them to 8-8 with Mason Rudolph at QB for the majority of the season. That was a minor miracle.

Also, how many fanbases, if give the chance to choose their teams outcome for the next 10 years, would choose 10 years of no losing seasons without winning a SB? Tomlin's recent track record isn't very good as others have said.

And that's the real question.

Would you rather the Rams over the last 10 years or the Steelers?

Good points to be made on both sides.

For me, you take the championship without question. As a Blues fan, we had a really good 10-year run in the 90s and early 00s in hockey, but never even got to a final and were always just a hair or two behind the big dogs in the conference (Det, Col), And when the run was over, we had nada to show for it except a ton of excruciating playoff losses. The last 10 years of the Blues have had some hard times, but 2019 was so amazing that it makes the bad years feel unimportant. You take the championship and don't look back, IMO.

 

[crushedspirit]

Coach Tomlin would NEVER hire a young minded OC from the Shanny/McVay tree who will have their own ideas and possibly be a threat to his HC job. He will 100% replace Matt Canada, if that ever happens, with Sullivan or Thomas who are a short walk just down the hall from his office. That's how coach MT conducts business, upgrade from within someone he can control to run a prehistoric vision of what he wants in his offense.

 

[kupcho1]

It's one thing when a strong hire comes in for "the guy" but also remember Tomlin is the "blackest" of the Black head coaches now (overtaking Tony Dungy in his prime) so not only do you have to replace this guy, but froma "league optics" perspective it has to be a guy like Bienemy or that whole craziness starts up again.

This is ludicrous.

If there's one team in the league where optics w/r/t a minority hire wouldn't apply it's the Steelers.

Now if you were talking about the Dolphins...

 

[Gatorman]

It's one thing when a strong hire comes in for "the guy" but also remember Tomlin is the "blackest" of the Black head coaches now (overtaking Tony Dungy in his prime) so not only do you have to replace this guy, but froma "league optics" perspective it has to be a guy like Bienemy or that whole craziness starts up again.

This is ludicrous.

If there's one team in the league where optics w/r/t a minority hire wouldn't apply it's the Steelers.

Now if you were talking about the Dolphins...

The steelers are a class organization and I agree with the sentiment, but... When Tampa went from Dungy to Gruden there were rumblings that only died when Tampa won the SB. With race being a lot more polarized now than even then, Tomlin delivers another 8-9 season and they can him for someone with a lighter skin tone? The only way that gets mitigated is if Tomlin has another coaching gig lined up 5 min after the firing "Al Pachino style".

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It's one thing when a strong hire comes in for "the guy" but also remember Tomlin is the "blackest" of the Black head coaches now (overtaking Tony Dungy in his prime) so not only do you have to replace this guy, but froma "league optics" perspective it has to be a guy like Bienemy or that whole craziness starts up again.

This is ludicrous.

If there's one team in the league where optics w/r/t a minority hire wouldn't apply it's the Steelers.

Now if you were talking about the Dolphins...

The steelers are a class organization and I agree with the sentiment, but... When Tampa went from Dungy to Gruden there were rumblings that only died when Tampa won the SB. With race being a lot more polarized now than even then, Tomlin delivers another 8-9 season and they can him for someone with a lighter skin tone? The only way that gets mitigated is if Tomlin has another coaching gig lined up 5 min after the firing "Al Pachino style".

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

I think the "national media" would be justified in picking this up as a "race thing". Everyone would know that Tomlin wasn't fired because he is black. The conversation would be about how there were only 3 black head coaches and one got fired. Especially if that coach got fired in his first EVER losing season in 17 seasons. I could see the media talking about that for a while.

Canada does need to go. I don't buy into the idea that he needs to simplify the offense to accomidate to his QB. The run game is uncreative and awful. When you look around the league at the creative run systems, its not clear at all what Canada is even trying to do. I see Tomlin and Harbaugh as very similar. Good leaders and locker room guys, always have their teams competitive and never embarrass the organization. Their biggest weakness may be loyalty. It took Harbaugh forever to fire Roman (and Cameron before that) when it was obvious to everyone it needed to happen.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tomlin has only kept his job because he's Black? I'm pretty sure his continued tenure can be explained by the fact that his organization has had three coaches in the past 50+ years. Chuck Knoll had one 10-win season in his final decade with the Steelers. Bill Cowher went a decade between Super Bowl appearances, including three losing seasons and two AFCCG losses at home. I'm pretty sure the Steelers didn't keep them around because they were Black.

 

[Gatorman]

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tomlin has only kept his job because he's Black? I'm pretty sure his continued tenure can be explained by the fact that his organization has had three coaches in the past 50+ years. Chuck Knoll had one 10-win season in his final decade with the Steelers. Bill Cowher went a decade between Super Bowl appearances, including three losing seasons and two AFCCG losses at home. I'm pretty sure the Steelers didn't keep them around because they were Black.

Again, you are not paying attention to the "spirit" in which I mean this. Tomlin is arguably one of the best leaders and defensive minds in the NFL. He assmebles teams that play hard and compete and deserves the same type of respect as someone as venerated as the greats: Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc. Now, with that being said, 2/3 of those guys were pushed out and I am unsure as to how Knolls tenure ended. Shula's teams as well as Landry's were still good (ok, decent) but they were 1) old and 2) white and 3) retired when they left their final team . Tomlin is no where near the end of his coaching career BUT this is not the "Shula era" Coaches don't get that much rope to be mediocre anymore. The tolerance for "very good" likely only applies to Bill B, Reid (In KC, not in Philly), Harbaugh, Vrabel, Tomlin and maybe Shanahan. Even then, I think 5-6 years of .500 ball would have them all at least on a "warm seat" where other coaches would be gone and on the retread circuit.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tomlin has only kept his job because he's Black? I'm pretty sure his continued tenure can be explained by the fact that his organization has had three coaches in the past 50+ years. Chuck Knoll had one 10-win season in his final decade with the Steelers. Bill Cowher went a decade between Super Bowl appearances, including three losing seasons and two AFCCG losses at home. I'm pretty sure the Steelers didn't keep them around because they were Black.

Again, you are not paying attention to the "spirit" in which I mean this. Tomlin is arguably one of the best leaders and defensive minds in the NFL. He assmebles teams that play hard and compete and deserves the same type of respect as someone as venerated as the greats: Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc. Now, with that being said, 2/3 of those guys were pushed out and I am unsure as to how Knolls tenure ended. Shula's teams as well as Landry's were still good (ok, decent) but they were 1) old and 2) white and 3) retired when they left their final team . Tomlin is no where near the end of his coaching career BUT this is not the "Shula era" Coaches don't get that much rope to be mediocre anymore. The tolerance for "very good" likely only applies to Bill B, Reid (In KC, not in Philly), Harbaugh, Vrabel, Tomlin and maybe Shanahan. Even then, I think 5-6 years of .500 ball would have them all at least on a "warm seat" where other coaches would be gone and on the retread circuit.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing you said here supports your claim that Tomlin is keeping his job because of his race, nor contradicts my claim that it's due to the Steelers' organizational philosophy. Shula and Landry, last I checked, were never Pittsburgh HCs.

As for Harbaugh, his case is a pretty strong piece of evidence against your argument. Both coaches have similar career winning percentages, have gone more than a decade since their last Super Bowl appearance, and since that time have consistently fielded good-but-not-dominant teams (the '19 Ravens being the one exception) that have underperformed in the playoffs. And both of their jobs are considered completely safe.

What do you think is the common thread between the two coaches?

• They're both white
• They're both Black
• They both work for organizations that prioritize stability

Honestly, I don't see how this is even a debate. You can argue that the Steelers' approach is misguided, though I would disagree. But I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's not the approach they're taking. If Mike Tomlin were white, in this or any other period over the last half-century, he would still have his job because the Steelers don't fire their head coaches. Do you actually disagree with that?

 

[Gatorman]

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tomlin has only kept his job because he's Black? I'm pretty sure his continued tenure can be explained by the fact that his organization has had three coaches in the past 50+ years. Chuck Knoll had one 10-win season in his final decade with the Steelers. Bill Cowher went a decade between Super Bowl appearances, including three losing seasons and two AFCCG losses at home. I'm pretty sure the Steelers didn't keep them around because they were Black.

Again, you are not paying attention to the "spirit" in which I mean this. Tomlin is arguably one of the best leaders and defensive minds in the NFL. He assmebles teams that play hard and compete and deserves the same type of respect as someone as venerated as the greats: Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc. Now, with that being said, 2/3 of those guys were pushed out and I am unsure as to how Knolls tenure ended. Shula's teams as well as Landry's were still good (ok, decent) but they were 1) old and 2) white and 3) retired when they left their final team . Tomlin is no where near the end of his coaching career BUT this is not the "Shula era" Coaches don't get that much rope to be mediocre anymore. The tolerance for "very good" likely only applies to Bill B, Reid (In KC, not in Philly), Harbaugh, Vrabel, Tomlin and maybe Shanahan. Even then, I think 5-6 years of .500 ball would have them all at least on a "warm seat" where other coaches would be gone and on the retread circuit.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing you said here supports your claim that Tomlin is keeping his job because of his race, nor contradicts my claim that it's due to the Steelers' organizational philosophy. Shula and Landry, last I checked, were never Pittsburgh HCs.

As for Harbaugh, his case is a pretty strong piece of evidence against your argument. Both coaches have similar career winning percentages, have gone more than a decade since their last Super Bowl appearance, and since that time have consistently fielded good-but-not-dominant teams (the '19 Ravens being the one exception) that have underperformed in the playoffs. And both of their jobs are considered completely safe.

What do you think is the common thread between the two coaches?

• They're both white
• They're both Black
• They both work for organizations that prioritize stability

Honestly, I don't see how this is even a debate. You can argue that the Steelers' approach is misguided, though I would disagree. But I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's not the approach they're taking. If Mike Tomlin were white, in this or any other period over the last half-century, he would still have his job because the Steelers don't fire their head coaches. Do you actually disagree with that?

Not at all. I think it is a stupid conversation to have in firing a head coach with as much staying power as Tomlin, and used the Shula firing as the perfect example of "be careful what you wish for" (and no one is "pushing" for the job in Pitt like Jimmy was for Miami).

What I was saying is aside from that, The Steelers and the NFL would have another "issue" on their hands if they fired arguably the best Black head coach since Tony Dungy.

Finally, I did say that other coaches with similar records have been fired over the years for "prolonged mediocrity" so if it was any other owner other than the Steelers, maybe Tomlin would be gone (ie someone like Jerry Jones)

Sorry if I am all over the place with this. Its an interesting thought experiment.

 

[Godsbrother]

Poor Chuck Noll. 4 Super Bowl Victories in 6 years and almost singlehandedly took a perennial losing franchise into one of most successful in a half century and people still can't spell his name right.

It may indeed be time for Tomlin to move on but I am old enough to remember when Steelers fans were trying to run Bill Cowher out of town. Biggest complaints: great motivator but chokes in the playoffs, not a good game manager, etc. Sound familiar?

As a passionate Steelers fan I am as frustrated as anyone with the performance of the Steelers offense under Matt Canada. I wasn't a fan of the Pickett pick and stated so at the time and on many occasions since but at this point we're stuck with him. He doesn't seem to be able to go through his progressions and he has been very inaccurate.

I have also been disappointed with the offensive line, who I thought improved last season and was going to be even better this year. Instead they seemed to have regressed.

For now, Tomlin (and probably Canada) aren't going anywhere. We'll see if Tomlin can get this team straightened out ...

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Poor Chuck Noll. 4 Super Bowl Victories in 6 years and almost singlehandedly took a perennial losing franchise into one of most successful in a half century and people still can't spell his name right.

I swear to God, I'm always getting him mixed up with Chuck Knox!

 

[kupcho1]

The Steelers and the NFL would have another "issue" on their hands if they fired arguably the best Black head coach since Tony Dungy.

The NFL? Probably

The Steelers? Absolutely not. You're spouting nonsense here. You do know who the Rooney rule is named for, right?

 

[Warhogs]

I'm a Packers fan but Mike Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches (maybe my favorite). My feeling would be you can stay as coach as long as you want to.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Look, I agree with the sentiment that firing Tomlin is the opposite of a race thing. If he was a white coach with 8-9 and one superbowl forever ago he'd be George Seifert, "team wants to go in another direction". But the national media will pick this up as a race thing especially if Tomlin doesn't get hired right away and/or the steelers next coach is a white guy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Tomlin has only kept his job because he's Black? I'm pretty sure his continued tenure can be explained by the fact that his organization has had three coaches in the past 50+ years. Chuck Knoll had one 10-win season in his final decade with the Steelers. Bill Cowher went a decade between Super Bowl appearances, including three losing seasons and two AFCCG losses at home. I'm pretty sure the Steelers didn't keep them around because they were Black.

Again, you are not paying attention to the "spirit" in which I mean this. Tomlin is arguably one of the best leaders and defensive minds in the NFL. He assmebles teams that play hard and compete and deserves the same type of respect as someone as venerated as the greats: Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc. Now, with that being said, 2/3 of those guys were pushed out and I am unsure as to how Knolls tenure ended. Shula's teams as well as Landry's were still good (ok, decent) but they were 1) old and 2) white and 3) retired when they left their final team . Tomlin is no where near the end of his coaching career BUT this is not the "Shula era" Coaches don't get that much rope to be mediocre anymore. The tolerance for "very good" likely only applies to Bill B, Reid (In KC, not in Philly), Harbaugh, Vrabel, Tomlin and maybe Shanahan. Even then, I think 5-6 years of .500 ball would have them all at least on a "warm seat" where other coaches would be gone and on the retread circuit.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing you said here supports your claim that Tomlin is keeping his job because of his race, nor contradicts my claim that it's due to the Steelers' organizational philosophy. Shula and Landry, last I checked, were never Pittsburgh HCs.

As for Harbaugh, his case is a pretty strong piece of evidence against your argument. Both coaches have similar career winning percentages, have gone more than a decade since their last Super Bowl appearance, and since that time have consistently fielded good-but-not-dominant teams (the '19 Ravens being the one exception) that have underperformed in the playoffs. And both of their jobs are considered completely safe.

What do you think is the common thread between the two coaches?

• They're both white
• They're both Black
• They both work for organizations that prioritize stability

Honestly, I don't see how this is even a debate. You can argue that the Steelers' approach is misguided, though I would disagree. But I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's not the approach they're taking. If Mike Tomlin were white, in this or any other period over the last half-century, he would still have his job because the Steelers don't fire their head coaches. Do you actually disagree with that?

Not at all. I think it is a stupid conversation to have in firing a head coach with as much staying power as Tomlin, and used the Shula firing as the perfect example of "be careful what you wish for" (and no one is "pushing" for the job in Pitt like Jimmy was for Miami).

What I was saying is aside from that, The Steelers and the NFL would have another "issue" on their hands if they fired arguably the best Black head coach since Tony Dungy.

Finally, I did say that other coaches with similar records have been fired over the years for "prolonged mediocrity" so if it was any other owner other than the Steelers, maybe Tomlin would be gone (ie someone like Jerry Jones)

Sorry if I am all over the place with this. Its an interesting thought experiment.

OK, sounds like we're mostly in agreement on Tomlin. I think he has his flaws -- he's not a great game-planner, he has an anemic coaching tree (the only coordinator who's gone on to become a HC was Arians, whom Tomlin fired) and Canada needed to go like three years ago. But on balance, I think the Steelers are better off with him as HC. You're right that other organizations probably wouldn't give their coach such a long leash, but in general I think patience is a smart strategy for an NFL team, and if more teams practiced it, maybe more of them would be as successful as the Steelers have been.

And yes, I think the NFL would probably have a PR headache if the longest-tenured Black HC got fired -- by an organization that never fires its coaches -- at the same time they are currently being sued.

 

[GregR]

Let's say the Steelers let it be known they are willing to part with Tomlin though he's still under contract.

The Saints got 1.29 and a future second, for Payton and a future 3rd.

If your team was in dire need of a coach, what would you consider to be a fair trade for Tomlin?

 

[rockaction]

If your team was in dire need of a coach

Interesting premise. They're so well-compensated it's hard to believe there are only 32 qualified people in the world. If their supply and demand market is efficient, there should be gobs of them available.

I'm not paying any picks over one second or third for a head coach unless it's Belichick or McVay, and even then they can't be GM.

I would pay four firsts for Patrick Mahomes, maybe more.

 

[Steeler]

If your team was in dire need of a coach, what would you consider to be a fair trade for Tomlin?

Based on the non-Steeler fans in this thread I would say a couple first round picks, at least.

 

[Steeler]

If your team was in dire need of a coach

I would pay four firsts for Patrick Mahomes, maybe more.

This is a great point: how many first round picks is Mahomes worth? KC would never give him up so I guess a better question would be how many firsts would you be willing to give up for Mahomes if you were managing your favorite team?

Again, KC would never do it but I would say 10 first round picks would be worth it In the free agent era, you could certainly build a competitive team with Mahomes over a decade without any first round picks.

 

[irish eyes]

I'm a Packers fan but Mike Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches (maybe my favorite). My feeling would be you can stay as coach as long as you want to.

You haven't watched many Steeler games apparently.

 

[Black and Gold]

I would be fine with Tomlin staying if the Rooneys would take some of control from him.
Hire a more innovative OC. Bring in another voice on defense. I think Flores helped last year more than you know. Don't just promote the next man up.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I'm a Packers fan but Mike Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches (maybe my favorite). My feeling would be you can stay as coach as long as you want to.

He is accomplished, and I don't dislike him, but I think he has lasted longer in his current role moreso due to his charisma than due to his ability. I suspect if you polled fans from all teams to name a coach not on their team they liked, Tomlin would be near the top. He carries himself well with a mixture of candor and professional demeanor, and his pressers are always a good watch.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

They lack talent and imagination. Canada will ultimately take him down. Tomlin’s teams don’t quit on him. That’s the plus. But they have zero identity right now. The definition of middle of the pack average

The team that played last week was nowhere near average. Maybe worst in the NFL

 

[themeistersinger]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

Eric Bieniemy. Ridiculous he hasn’t landed a head coach position by now. Knows how to out coach opponents even in the playoffs. Sign him before someone else does.

Right on! He was awesome this past Thursday night!

 

[themeistersinger]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

I trust the Steelers to find a decent replacement... they have a pretty good track record of hiring coaches. However, Tomlin's time in Pittsburgh has expired, IMO. However, I realize that's not the Steeler way and he'll probably be there for as long as he wants to be the Steelers coach. I just wish he would modernize and embrace some new ideas.

Regarding the track record, how many head coaches have they hired in the past 20 years?

 

[themeistersinger]

Also don't forget that the NFL is designed to make it easy for crummy teams to improve. The draft is the most obvious place - when was the last time the Steelers earned a top-10 pick the old fashioned way, by losing a lot. Also, two of your opponents each year match your place in the opposite division - so if you win your division this year, you play all 3 of the other division winners in your conference (or all the seconds or thirds or fourths, depending on your final position).

Tomlin never had a crack at either Bosa or Trevor Lawrence or Stroud or ARich or ...

 

[Ilov80s]

Also don't forget that the NFL is designed to make it easy for crummy teams to improve. The draft is the most obvious place - when was the last time the Steelers earned a top-10 pick the old fashioned way, by losing a lot. Also, two of your opponents each year match your place in the opposite division - so if you win your division this year, you play all 3 of the other division winners in your conference (or all the seconds or thirds or fourths, depending on your final position).

Tomlin never had a crack at either Bosa or Trevor Lawrence or Stroud or ARich or ...

He got Watt tho so that's basically the equivalent to Bosa or whatever kind of pass rusher a team would dream of landing with a top 3 pick.

 

[Steeler]

I ask the question I always do in these cases: What's a realistic alternative for replacing him?

I trust the Steelers to find a decent replacement... they have a pretty good track record of hiring coaches. However, Tomlin's time in Pittsburgh has expired, IMO. However, I realize that's not the Steeler way and he'll probably be there for as long as he wants to be the Steelers coach. I just wish he would modernize and embrace some new ideas.

Regarding the track record, how many head coaches have they hired in the past 20 years?

Two. Cower and Tomlin, and both won a Super Bowl. Doesn't that help my claim they are good at choosing new coaches?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Mike Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches (maybe my favorite).

Why?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

As the Steelers head towards week 6
1st Place atop the AFC North at 3-2, fresh off a Division Rival victory.

Do we want to fire him this week?

 

[Steelers4Life]

As the Steelers head towards week 6
1st Place atop the AFC North at 3-2, fresh off a Division Rival victory.

Do we want to fire him this week?

I'd love for the Steelers to replace him with an offensive minded, strategic thinker who's more in line with today's NFL. A poor performance and lucky win vs the Ravens doesn't change that.

We're on par for exactly what his teams have become. Good enough to win 9 games, maybe. A fringe playoff contender, making it or losing it by a game. Not a threat to win in the playoffs and way too many holes and not enough good coaching to become anything resembling a legit contender. That's what the standard has changed too... gotta keep that amazing streak going lol.

At minimum, Id want him to hire someone who can take complete ownership of the offense, but that won't happen either.