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Help Needed FBG Plumbing Guys -- No water coming from just one shower (1 Viewer)

gianmarco

gianmarco

Footballguy
Alright, so snowmaggeddon has come and gone, mostly. Temps dipped to -10 today and it's currently -2. They will start to rise tomorrow, hitting ~25 at around 5pm tomorrow.

Last night, shower worked fine. This evening, my wife went to shower and turned on one of the shower heads and no water came out. There is a waterfall showerhead that is installed in the ceiling and another hand held shower head on the wall. There are also 4 shower jets. Water comes from the handheld. Water comes from the jets. And water is coming from both bathroom sinks (and every other part of the house). But, still nothing from the ceiling waterfall showerhead.

I don't see any leaks, however, when she turned on the heating fan in the bathroom, a couple drops leaked down.

Does this mean the pipe is just frozen? Does it mean it's frozen AND burst? From the bit I've just read on this it states we should turn off the water main to the entire house. Is this necessary right now? I plan on calling a plumber in the morning and it will still be only 0 degrees at 8am.

TIA and will answer yours.

 
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gianmarco said:
Alright, so snowmaggeddon has come and gone, mostly. Temps dipped to -10 today and it's currently -2. They will start to rise tomorrow, hitting ~25 at around 5pm tomorrow.

Last night, shower worked fine. This evening, my wife went to shower and turned on one of the shower heads and no water came out. There is a waterfall showerhead that is installed in the ceiling and another hand held shower head on the wall. There are also 4 shower jets. Water comes from the handheld. Water comes from the jets. And water is coming from both bathroom sinks (and every other part of the house). But, still nothing from the ceiling waterfall showerhead.

I don't see any leaks, however, when she turned on the heating fan in the bathroom, a couple drops leaked down.

Does this mean the pipe is just frozen? Does it mean it's frozen AND burst? From the bit I've just read on this it states we should turn off the water main to the entire house. Is this necessary right now? I plan on calling a plumber in the morning and it will still be only 0 degrees at 8am.

TIA and will answer yours.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the pipe to the waterfall shower head froze. Could be cracked/busted and should only leak out what's in the pipe as long as the shower isn't turned back on. Might not even need to shut the house water off if it's the pipe to the shower head since it's controlled by the shower valve.

 
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shadyridr said:
How does the pipe in an indoor bathroom freeze? And only to one showerhead?
Click to expand...
If that section that feeds the head runs through the attic or uninsulated space and the pipes that feed the other spouts run through an inside or insulated wall.
 
belljr said:
Is the pipe wrapped with insulation? You said the fan dripped?
Click to expand...
To clarify, it was actually the heating lamp we have installed that has a fan built in together with it. I'm thinking it probably melted anything frozen up there. She only had it on briefly and only a couple drops fell. Any chance it's just some ice around the pipe? FWIW, the lamp is about 4 ft away from the showerhead.

I don't think the pipe is wrapped with insulation. The insulation up there is like this dust looking material and lots of it. When I went into the attic, I can see some exposed PVC pipes but nothing obvious. The house isn't old (about 8 yrs old) and the bathroom was a remodel about 2 yrs ago with new plumbing done for it.

 
so you can see the cpvc? go to home depot and get some pipe insulation.

when ypu say drops fell - you mean from the shower head?

you wont know if it cracked until its thawed.

you could take a hair dryer move the insulation away and warm up the pipe, once it flowsvyou can see if it cracked

 
belljr said:
so you can see the cpvc? go to home depot and get some pipe insulation.

when ypu say drops fell - you mean from the shower head?

you wont know if it cracked until its thawed.

you could take a hair dryer move the insulation away and warm up the pipe, once it flowsvyou can see if it cracked
Click to expand...
I can see some of the PVC, yes.

Drops came from the heating fan, not from the shower head. It's an infrared heating lamp and can get quite hot right away. It must have thawed whatever is next to it and that's where the drops came from.

I'm thinking I can just wait until it warms up a bit tomorrow and turn the showerhead back on. If I see/hear anything, I'll turn it off right away and call the plumber. Or does the fact that even a few drops fell mean it's definitely cracked and I should call first thing and not even bother self testing?

 
I would shut the water off overnight just to be safe. The pipe could be clogged with ice, but hasn't burst yet.

This happened with my outdoor hose today. I brought it into the garage for a couple hours until it thawed and then water could flow through again.

If it is frozen, you'll need to insulate it for the future. You could try using a hair dryer on the pipe if it's accessible.

 
gianmarco said:
belljr said:
so you can see the cpvc? go to home depot and get some pipe insulation.

when ypu say drops fell - you mean from the shower head?

you wont know if it cracked until its thawed.

you could take a hair dryer move the insulation away and warm up the pipe, once it flowsvyou can see if it cracked
Click to expand...
I can see some of the PVC, yes.

Drops came from the heating fan, not from the shower head. It's an infrared heating lamp and can get quite hot right away. It must have thawed whatever is next to it and that's where the drops came from.

I'm thinking I can just wait until it warms up a bit tomorrow and turn the showerhead back on. If I see/hear anything, I'll turn it off right away and call the plumber. Or does the fact that even a few drops fell mean it's definitely cracked and I should call first thing and not even bother self testing?
Click to expand...
thats what im trying to figure out.it either froze, cracked and you melted whatever is there

or

the pipe that is froze has a bit of condensation on it...

ypu definitely need to check.

as long as the only water that gets there is by the shower valve you shouldnt need to turn off the whole house

 
gianmarco said:
Picture of shower

The heating lamp is almost directly above where I'm standing while taking that picture. FWIW, the wall with the shower parts is NOT an outside wall.
Click to expand...
its not an outaide wall but you have pipes in the attici dont like that you are getting water drops above your head from that area

 
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belljr said:
gianmarco said:
belljr said:
so you can see the cpvc? go to home depot and get some pipe insulation.

when ypu say drops fell - you mean from the shower head?

you wont know if it cracked until its thawed.

you could take a hair dryer move the insulation away and warm up the pipe, once it flowsvyou can see if it cracked
Click to expand...
I can see some of the PVC, yes.

Drops came from the heating fan, not from the shower head. It's an infrared heating lamp and can get quite hot right away. It must have thawed whatever is next to it and that's where the drops came from.

I'm thinking I can just wait until it warms up a bit tomorrow and turn the showerhead back on. If I see/hear anything, I'll turn it off right away and call the plumber. Or does the fact that even a few drops fell mean it's definitely cracked and I should call first thing and not even bother self testing?
Click to expand...
thats what im trying to figure out.it either froze, cracked and you melted whatever is there

or

the pipe that is froze has a bit of condensation on it...

ypu definitely need to check.

as long as the only water that gets there is by the shower valve you shouldnt need to turn off the whole house
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, thanks. I'll check it out then for sure tomorrow before calling. And yes, that's the only water that gets to that part. In fact, since the other shower head and jets and everything else works, I'm quite sure it has to be between the shower valve and the shower head and it's the only pipe that is likely running in the attic.

 
Ok, went up into the attic this morning again. Here's a couple pictures:

The red circle is where the plumbing for the shower would be

Same picture without the circle in the way

View down the length of the house

As you can see, no copper piping is exposed so it's all buried under that insulation. Also, the big black box you see is our heating lamp and clearly no water frozen on it so those drops that came down must have been condensation.

I'm thinking I'll just give it a couple of days to warm up and see if it's just frozen as I'd have to dig thru that insulation to even see anything.

Any thoughts based on those pictures?

 
How long has the shower been in place? I suggest you pull up the insulation, wrap all water piping in insulation. It will happen again, and if it bursts the results will be much worse. Until then:

1) Get a hair dryer / extension cord, warm the pipe until you have flow.

2) Leave that shower on a trickle until you get a chance to insualte the piping / or it warms up a bit outside

 
Got the same issue today, no water from the kitchen faucet. Fine everywhere else. Gotta look for the pipe in the crawl space and hit it with the hair dryer. Good times!

 
wilked said:
3C said:
Are you sure that PVC is supply? Looks more like vent.
Click to expand...
I think he said supply is copper piping and buried beneath the insulation. Agreed, PVC is vent
Click to expand...
Yes, the PVC is vent. The copper piping is buried and I haven't looked down there.

So you're suggesting not to wait to get it flowing? It's getting up to 25 later today and it'll be up to 40's-50's in a couple days.

I do plan on getting it insulated now that I've seen this happen but not until this gets resolved. And the shower was remodeled almost 2 yrs ago. Last winter it never got this cold (and rarely does here as these are coldest temps here in 15-20 yrs).

 
that blown foam is not going to do a lot for really cold temps. probably would be fine most of the time if you're not in an area where it gets really cold but as others said, wrap that pipe up.

 
that pvc is not cpvc at least it doesnt look like it. cpvc is rated for hot water.

anyway everyone has already mentioned... you nee to find the pipe that goes to the shower head and insulate that not the pvc venting.

for probably 2bucks you can buy foam to wrap the pipe

 
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3C said:
If you have a hair dryer use it to warm the pipe.
Click to expand...
Just went up there trying to find it. That foam insulation is almost a foot deep and I can't find the pipe. Plus, as I've got to work later today and the next couple of days, I don't want to thaw it out and find there's a leak and have to call someone in immediately. I'll just keep that shower valve off until it gets warm enough and then see what I can find as we can still easily shower with the handheld. Unless you guys are telling me there's a chance it didn't already crack but is at increased risk to do so unless I get it going now.

 
The shower valve is likely the end of the line. Keeping it off won't do anything to prevent the pipe from bursting. Just the opposite would be my guess.

 
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McGarnicle said:
Got the same issue today, no water from the kitchen faucet. Fine everywhere else. Gotta look for the pipe in the crawl space and hit it with the hair dryer. Good times!
Click to expand...
I've had a ceramic heater blowing into my kitchen sink base cabinet because it is part of a bump out with crappy insulation underneath. Add that to my dam list...

We have two rain head showers and have YET to experience issues... :oldunsure:

 
3C said:
The shower valve is likely the end of the line. Keeping it off won't do anything to prevent the pipe from bursting. Just the opposite would be my guess.
Click to expand...
I'm not understanding this. Now, my knowledge of plumbing is virtually nil, but I'll try to explain what I think the setup is and you can let me know if it's way off.

This bathroom is on the 2nd floor (2 story home). Water heater and main are downstairs. The plumbing comes up through the wall and supplies the shower from below. However, because we remodeled and added the overhead shower, there was additional plumbing added from the wall going into the attic and feeding that showerhead from above. The rest of the shower works (the handheld and jets). So, my understanding is that the pipe is frozen between the shower valve and the pipe leading into the attic and feeding the showerhead. Since the rest of the shower works fine, what's feeding into the bathroom itself is working fine.

(in the attic) -- frozen

-------------------

I I

I I

I I

Showerhead I

I

I (shower valve for overhead)

(working portion) I

Shower valves I

Handheld shower I

I I

I--------------I

I

I

I

I

Water main with water heater on 1st floor

Crude drawing, but is that accurate? Am I looking at this completely wrong? Based on the plumbing I saw during the remodel, the rest of it is in the wall behind in the picture I posted above. The only pipe that runs in the attic is the one that feeds that overhead showerhead.

 
That's exactly how imagined it. I agree with 3Cs that shutting off the valve to the ceiling showerhead could do more harm than good. If the pipe did freeze, as it appears, better to keep the lines open so the water can move when it thaws. (I'm surprised it froze, since the copper pipe is under a lot of insulation, but what's done is done.)

I wonder if it would help to turn on the main shower (handheld), and intermittently pull the diverter to send (try to send) the warm water up to the ceiling showerhead. I.e., pull the diverter for just a few seconds, then drop it back so water comes out of the handheld again ...repeat a number of times to slowly let the warm water thaw out any frozen section it encounters. I wonder if, over the course of 10-20 minutes, that would eventually - and gradually - thaw out the upper pipe. Other reactions to this idea?

 
I think if I'm reading that right and the overhead shower valve is like a diverter of some sort off the incoming line that leaving it open might help with expansion (but might be too late for that). If it's a separate water supply and the pipe bursts leaving the valve open could lead to more damage. Either way, you're probably ok and it will thaw out and all will be fine. We hope. :)

 
http://www.redcross.org/prepare/disaster/winter-storm/preventing-thawing-frozen-pipes

To Thaw Frozen Pipes

If you turn on a faucet and only a trickle comes out, suspect a frozen pipe. Likely places for frozen pipes include against exterior walls or where your water service enters your home through the foundation.

Keep the faucet open. As you treat the frozen pipe and the frozen area begins to melt, water will begin to flow through the frozen area. Running water through the pipe will help melt ice in the pipe.

Apply heat to the section of pipe using an electric heating pad wrapped around the pipe, an electric hair dryer, a portable space heater (kept away from flammable materials), or by wrapping pipes with towels soaked in hot water. Do not use a blowtorch, kerosene or propane heater, charcoal stove, or other open flame device.

Apply heat until full water pressure is restored. If you are unable to locate the frozen area, if the frozen area is not accessible, or if you can not thaw the pipe, call a licensed plumber.

Check all other faucets in your home to find out if you have additional frozen pipes. If one pipe freezes, others may freeze, too.

 
tri-man 47 said:
That's exactly how imagined it. I agree with 3Cs that shutting off the valve to the ceiling showerhead could do more harm than good. If the pipe did freeze, as it appears, better to keep the lines open so the water can move when it thaws. (I'm surprised it froze, since the copper pipe is under a lot of insulation, but what's done is done.)

I wonder if it would help to turn on the main shower (handheld), and intermittently pull the diverter to send (try to send) the warm water up to the ceiling showerhead. I.e., pull the diverter for just a few seconds, then drop it back so water comes out of the handheld again ...repeat a number of times to slowly let the warm water thaw out any frozen section it encounters. I wonder if, over the course of 10-20 minutes, that would eventually - and gradually - thaw out the upper pipe. Other reactions to this idea?
Click to expand...
There's no diverter. Each has its own valve (notice 3 handles in picture below). I turn each one off and on independently. The big middle handle is only for temperature control. It's kind of like a 3 way splitter behind the wall where the unit is. That said, I can turn it on and have the others running too for a bit to see if it does enough to get it going.

Picture of shower again: Shower

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ignoramus said:
http://www.redcross.org/prepare/disaster/winter-storm/preventing-thawing-frozen-pipes

To Thaw Frozen Pipes

If you turn on a faucet and only a trickle comes out, suspect a frozen pipe. Likely places for frozen pipes include against exterior walls or where your water service enters your home through the foundation.

Keep the faucet open. As you treat the frozen pipe and the frozen area begins to melt, water will begin to flow through the frozen area. Running water through the pipe will help melt ice in the pipe.

Apply heat to the section of pipe using an electric heating pad wrapped around the pipe, an electric hair dryer, a portable space heater (kept away from flammable materials), or by wrapping pipes with towels soaked in hot water. Do not use a blowtorch, kerosene or propane heater, charcoal stove, or other open flame device.

Apply heat until full water pressure is restored. If you are unable to locate the frozen area, if the frozen area is not accessible, or if you can not thaw the pipe, call a licensed plumber.

Check all other faucets in your home to find out if you have additional frozen pipes. If one pipe freezes, others may freeze, too.
Click to expand...
I think (could be wrong) that the "keep the faucet open" line of thinking would be true for a faucet like on a sink but when talking about an overhead line if the faucet is open and the pipe bursts and they're not around. Big damage.

 
LIVE UPDATE!!

I opened both valves. There is slow drip now coming from the overhead. First it was one drop every 10 seconds and only from one opening in the showerhead (out of like 20). The rate has increased to one drop every 3 seconds or so and another opening has a couple drops. Keep this going or expect a huge burst soon?

 
not trying to be difficult but you wont know until you melt it or it melts. and it it did crackk you got water flowing in your attic.

you really need to uncover the pipe

 
gianmarco said:
LIVE UPDATE!!

I opened both valves. There is slow drip now coming from the overhead. First it was one drop every 10 seconds and only from one opening in the showerhead (out of like 20). The rate has increased to one drop every 3 seconds or so and another opening has a couple drops. Keep this going or expect a huge burst soon?
Click to expand...
That seems encouraging. So the valve is open to 'push' water to the ceiling showerhead? How far open do you have it?

I think what's unusual here is that you are using pressure to push water up into that line. In most situations, e.g., with a sink, opening the faucet attempts to draw water through the line ..if that makes sense. If you're pushing water up via the open valve at a moderate pace, I think it will help thaw out that line.

Even just running warm water through the lower, handheld nozzle should have some effect of heating up the connected copper pipes that go to the ceiling showerhead.

 
tri-man 47 said:
gianmarco said:
LIVE UPDATE!!

I opened both valves. There is slow drip now coming from the overhead. First it was one drop every 10 seconds and only from one opening in the showerhead (out of like 20). The rate has increased to one drop every 3 seconds or so and another opening has a couple drops. Keep this going or expect a huge burst soon?
Click to expand...
That seems encouraging. So the valve is open to 'push' water to the ceiling showerhead? How far open do you have it?

I think what's unusual here is that you are using pressure to push water up into that line. In most situations, e.g., with a sink, opening the faucet attempts to draw water through the line ..if that makes sense. If you're pushing water up via the open valve at a moderate pace, I think it will help thaw out that line.

Even just running warm water through the lower, handheld nozzle should have some effect of heating up the connected copper pipes that go to the ceiling showerhead.
Click to expand...
Just went back and reopened and left it for a moment. We now have FULL FLOW!

Looks like that trick did it. I've looked and so far no signs of any leaks, can't hear anything, drywall looks completely dry. I'm going to let it run for a good 15-20 minutes and see if I notice anything.

Thanks so much, everyone, for your help.

 
Form what I read, I wouldn't suspect a crack. If it cracked you would know it by now...

Still, when it warms up it is worth insulating those lines for peace of mind going forward, and maybe save the next owner of the home a hassle

 
wilked said:
Form what I read, I wouldn't suspect a crack. If it cracked you would know it by now...

Still, when it warms up it is worth insulating those lines for peace of mind going forward, and maybe save the next owner of the home a hassle
Click to expand...
yep.

I would think insulation in an attic area like that would be required by code. Could depend on locality :shrug:

 
wilked said:
Form what I read, I wouldn't suspect a crack. If it cracked you would know it by now...

Still, when it warms up it is worth insulating those lines for peace of mind going forward, and maybe save the next owner of the home a hassle
Click to expand...
Will do and thanks again to each of you with your help in here.

The wife last night shortly after we noticed the problem: "Go ask your forum to see if you can get help" :lmao:

 
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I may be really stupid, but I've lived in Minnesota and Chicago all of my life, never had a pipe freeze before. And the plumbing is on outside insulated walls.

 
mr roboto said:
I may be really stupid, but I've lived in Minnesota and Chicago all of my life, never had a pipe freeze before. And the plumbing is on outside insulated walls.
Click to expand...
You didn't mention if they are bare pipes, or insulated pipes.

My guess is that they are insulated. If they are bare and in an uninsulated section, they will freeze if temperatures drop below freezing and there is no flow, simple thermodynamics

 
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