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Help with Bipolar Daughter? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter tuffnutt
- Start date
belljr
Footballguy
She is off her meds.
My fil was similar but with scynzophrania.
He would call us randomly he would save us, etc. Once he got on his meds he was fine but very lethargic. Then would stop. Eventually he moved out, met some guy, they moved in. He ended up murdering the guy. Went to jail. It ended up being the best thing for him. Once he got out we had a tough sled for a few years until we could get him admitted to a home.
Good luck. There is no wrong answers
My fil was similar but with scynzophrania.
He would call us randomly he would save us, etc. Once he got on his meds he was fine but very lethargic. Then would stop. Eventually he moved out, met some guy, they moved in. He ended up murdering the guy. Went to jail. It ended up being the best thing for him. Once he got out we had a tough sled for a few years until we could get him admitted to a home.
Good luck. There is no wrong answers
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Not a psychiatrist, but lithium is a tricky drug to take. The therapeutic index is small, with legitimate toxicity concerns and need for optimal compliance. An alternative first line therapy is valproic acid (Depakote). You may want to discuss the pros and cons of each drug with her therapist.
ETA Synthetic cannabinoids like spice can make people psychotic. Try to ensure she avoids all flavors of recreational drugs.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
I have some experience with this and am happy to talk about it in general terms, but nobody on the internet will be able to give advice for your specific situation.
What I can tell you is this:
Forget the stigma. This isn't your fault. You did not raise her wrong or screw her up. Bipolar disorder does not even appear to be genetic in the same way that red hair or large penises are genetic. Current thinking is that there are a lot of genes that contribute to the symptoms that are commonly described as bipolar disorder.
I'm not saying this to make you feel good, or bad. I'm saying this because it's completely natural to blame yourself for contributing to it, or feel responsible for your genes being involved, or to feel shame for admitting it, or worry that someone else will judge you differently once you talk about it. You need help because you are not equipped to deal with this and people will not judge you. I'm speaking from experience. Unfortunately, too much experience.
Your daughter will suffer from this. I wish I had better news. But she will. And she will suffer a lot more if you don't make difficult decisions on her behalf. No matter what you do there will be stigma with anyone who finds out, but that's secondary. You can't hide this and hope it goes away.
There isn't a pill. There are a number of medications that help with different symptoms and a number of symptoms that are not the same for everyone dealing with this. It takes time for the very best doctors in the world to find the right balance of medications for a patient, and even then a lot of it is trial and error and relies on the patient reporting honestly which is no guarantee.
Your daughter is probably not "just" bipolar. If she believes that she knows how you will die, she probably has other unusual beliefs or feelings. Be observant and be honest with the doctors about your observations. They don't have enough time with her to see everything for themselves. There's no simple test or cure for most kinds of mental illness but the people who work in this field are often passionate about helping.
This is really hard to discuss out loud. It took me a long time to feel comfortable talking about it. I'm proud of you for being better than I was. You are doing the right thing reaching out to people. This won't be a quick solution and you will need help along the way and while it feels really scary to talk about, almost anyone you ask will understand that.
I was worried that a family member's diagnosis would reflect poorly on me. It doesnt. I make 6 figures and have a zillion likes on a message board and I have a huge hog. Like embarrassingly big. I feel bad sometimes. I'm sure you have made your own way in this world. People don't judge you on your daughter's mental health, and if they do, just show them your enormous literal or metaphorical wiener. Probably metaphorical. Also not your fault.
The main thing is- you are dealing with a complex, poorly understood and poorly documented situation that isn't your fault and will consume a lot of your time and you won't even know if you're helping. And that's a formula for feeling terrible about yourself. Don't let that happen. Don't voluntarily give her illness a second victim. You're doing the exact right thing asking for help and I wish you all the best for the future.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Just reading this over again, I am pretty surprised that the pcp was so quick to put her on Zoloft and that the er sent her to the Psych ward based on that “simple” incident. We were reluctant to ever give my daughter medication for everything, but even after we had tried everything else and were ok to try meds, it took forever just to get Zoloft. And when we brought her to the ER for her cutting the first time, they sent us home after determining she was not a threat. Things continued really going downhill and it was still really hard to get what she needed. Seems like you kinda had the exact opposite experience. They may have immediately jumped to overkill interventions when they weren’t totally necessary. Definitely keep on with the therapeutic programs. PHP/IOP can do a lot of good.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
Zoloft and other anti-depressants have a black box warning about giving them to teens.
Children aren't just little adults. Their biochemistry is way different. (Not much of a surprise really.)
Good luck. It was hard having an adult friend with schizophrenia. I can't imagine going through this.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I absolutely hate when general practitioners prescribe any sort of psych meds. It's so reckless and shouldnt even be allowed.
I also hate when (especially kids) people tell their therapist something and they get sent to the hospital for it. It completely makes people want to hide their thoughts and feelings. If someone has suicidal thoughts but knows disclosing that will get them sent to the psych ward, how on Earth are they supposed to feel comfortable talking about it? That happens far too often. Liability liability liability.
I also hate when (especially kids) people tell their therapist something and they get sent to the hospital for it. It completely makes people want to hide their thoughts and feelings. If someone has suicidal thoughts but knows disclosing that will get them sent to the psych ward, how on Earth are they supposed to feel comfortable talking about it? That happens far too often. Liability liability liability.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I have nothing to add but +1. My friend has been going thru this with his daughter for a long time now.Galileo said:
tuffnutt
Footballguy
Ok quick update... my daughter checked herself out today and is home. Not sure what next step is for sure, but we have her an 11 am appointment with therapist and we will be taking her to primary Dr. to get her meds switched to the lithium. She is still manic but not near the girl I saw on Monday who was completely out of it. So there’s that I guess. Thanks again for all the support
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Did the doctor say anything about keeping an eye on her, removing dangerous things from the home, etc.?
tuffnutt
Footballguy
No but we did all that already when she went awol this weekend. I will be sleeping in the living room for now to make sure she doesn’t run
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
are you getting any support from the therapist on how to deal w her at home? every chance to positively engage will save trouble and aid communication down the line
tuffnutt
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
I think it would be beneficial to find a psychiatrist who doesn't want to over-medicate but is responsive to her needs. Easier said than done. It can take 2-3 months to get into see one as a new patient so make an appointment right away if you find one; You can always cancel if you find something better & sooner. I would also consider calling your insurance carrier as they may be able to expedite things and many have nurses on staff to strategize with. I'd guess they would rather pay for a good psychiatrist every couple weeks rather than pay for more in/out patient care that doesn't seem to be helping. Ours has a "A registered nurse health coach" we can supposedly access. It's 24 hrs/day so I don't bother him/her cause they are probably pretty tired.
I believe PCPs have a list of drugs to "try" when a mental illness is expected. In our area, Zoloft seems to be the first on the list for many PCPs. It would be my last choice but YMMV. Sounds like you are all past this point anyways. You sound like a great parent, OP. I hope things get better. Take care.
I believe PCPs have a list of drugs to "try" when a mental illness is expected. In our area, Zoloft seems to be the first on the list for many PCPs. It would be my last choice but YMMV. Sounds like you are all past this point anyways. You sound like a great parent, OP. I hope things get better. Take care.
renesauz
IBL Representative
my ex-wife was bipolar. I fought it/her a long time before finally agreeing to divorce but insisting I keep custody of our three kids. Years later, I'm pissed at myself for trying too hard for too long...lot of damage to the kids. (Mostly from her, but I'm amazed at how insightful they are!)
Bottom line, try to help but protect the innocent first
Bottom line, try to help but protect the innocent first
renesauz
IBL Representative
Lithium is a tough drug to take. My wife was on it a couple of times. Makes them feel almost nothing at all, good or bad. Very difficult to get someone to take that for more then a few weeks as a bridge.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
This is true for a small percentage of people, which is why other meds are explored if lithium isnt the right med for you.
Your wifes experience is not the norm, but certainly does happen
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Help her realize she needs meds for a medical condition. There's a massive stigma and many patients feel guilt, embarrassment, and denial. Just like if she has a headache and needs aspirin or if she broke her hand and needed a cast - it's a medical condition. She's not crazy, she's not worthless, and she's not a liability. She has a medical condition. Try to associate it to something she's experienced before. My father is bipolar and shared that once he got over this barrier he found it easier to cope with his reality and his meds became part of his solution instead of part of his problem and that this was the single biggest victory he has had. He also said that there are no "big" victories, just a whole series of very small ones. It's been said already here that this is a marathon, not a sprint. It's not a marathon, it's a life journey. But it's one millions of people can and do live with and manage.
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
good lord.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i wish the original Gordon Gekko would come back.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I probably should read what others are posting and a week has gone by since this so a lot might have changed but I have to think top priority is the safety of all the children. The ones at home and your daughter in medical care. You might have to keep them all separated for a bit.
"I don't want to give up on daughter", that's a hard sentence to swallow right now.
I just read your entire OP again, OMG man, you took her in when she was at her lowest point and managed to keep her upright for almost 2 years? You deserve a medal as does your wife and actually all the adults here seem like they have worked very hard with your oldest.
I cannot imagine what this must be like to watch someone you love just deteriorate mentally. I say this as someone who often feels crazy or I'll say I walk a fine line sometimes between creative and socio but I am fully aware of what I am doing. I'm not sure your daughter understands what is happening. At this point it can't be a cry for attention...was there something that happened at 13 that you don't know about?
You're doing everything you can but I would protect the safety of all remaining children in BOTH houses and do whatever you must to keep her away for now.
Is there anyway to have a different voice or tone with her in a somewhat private setting, although i would encourage someone to be listening from another room however you have to arrange that. I would lay it out in a clear voice that doesn't sound like Daddy. I have one voice when I deal with my son, I have quite another when I am speaking to another adult my age. You need to explain to her that if she cannot get better thru medication or some other way that you are going to be put into a situation where the outcome is uncertain and she probably isn't going to like the end of the story. Hopefully that doesn't send her into a rage on the spot so I would try a time when her jets are cool.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm going to share what was told to me by a psychiatrist. It was laid out that there were two paths for me, one involving medication and the other was diet and exercise, we went with B.
I have no idea what it's like to walk in your shoes but I would try to eliminate all "Processed Foods". I would have your daughter on 1-ingredient foods, apples are apples and fish is fish. If she is eating chips, cookies, sodas, get that crap out of her system immediately. I would go full force on a lot of activity and watching everything she eats. It's worth a shot because I truly believe medication for mental illness should only be used in the most extreme cases, BiPolar I totally understand why folks need medication but it's possible some go misdiagnosed.
This story is brutal and I'm angry at the Doctors. I hope people are not pinning their hopes to doctors for all the answers. Psychiatry has to be one of the most inexact sciences, everyone has a borderline personality malfunction.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
Been really busy as you might expect but here is a quick update. Once again I want to thank everyone for support and advice.
the psychiatrist has put my daughter on 450 mg of lithium twice daily and given her an anxiety med and a sleep med. I’m cautiously optimistic but we have started to see improvements. She is eating normally again and we have have had 4 consecutive nights of sleeping through the night. Her psychosis has faded although she is still a little manic. She is back in therapy twice a week and we have added a layer of therapy called peer therapy where she will meet once a week with a young woman who has also lived with bipolar disorder. My wife and youngest daughter have been staying at her mothers for the last week partly to keep youngest away from the house and partly because her mom just had surgery and has been helping her around the house.
As for next phase... we own a 2 rental properties one of which my mother in law is living in. It has a detached garage that we have started converting into a one bedroom apartment. We hope to be done in about 3 weeks. I am going to use that as a transitional home for my daughter where she will learn some independence while still being close to monitor her meds and moods. Hopefully the medications she is on now will work and she can have some sort of normal life.
the psychiatrist has put my daughter on 450 mg of lithium twice daily and given her an anxiety med and a sleep med. I’m cautiously optimistic but we have started to see improvements. She is eating normally again and we have have had 4 consecutive nights of sleeping through the night. Her psychosis has faded although she is still a little manic. She is back in therapy twice a week and we have added a layer of therapy called peer therapy where she will meet once a week with a young woman who has also lived with bipolar disorder. My wife and youngest daughter have been staying at her mothers for the last week partly to keep youngest away from the house and partly because her mom just had surgery and has been helping her around the house.
As for next phase... we own a 2 rental properties one of which my mother in law is living in. It has a detached garage that we have started converting into a one bedroom apartment. We hope to be done in about 3 weeks. I am going to use that as a transitional home for my daughter where she will learn some independence while still being close to monitor her meds and moods. Hopefully the medications she is on now will work and she can have some sort of normal life.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
best wishes as you try to be a force for good in your daughter's life. it's a difficult developmental point because the presentation of these imbalances make her more reliant upon you at a time in life when she'd be most inclined to be establishing independence. i'd be more inclined to lead her to reasonable goals and small wins over trying to be her guardrail against the pitfalls of her "nature". it's tough not to be afraid in a situation with so much unknown, but your fear for her will likely be perceived by your daughter as a control issue. your hope, sense & consistency will be what she most needs to see. if you find yourselves needing to impose limits, try to make of it a contract rather than a rulebook. stand firm, but always offer a hand as she seeks to cross these mean streets. good luck -
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
What's the sleep med?
I've dealt with similar issues with my (now) 16 year old daughter for the last 4 years or so. The most important thing I've learned is that you are the foremost expert on your kiddo. Every time she goes into a new program or a new hospital or sees a new therapist, her entire team will be brand new. You can bring them up to speed but you need to be assertive about what you know has worked in the past and what has not, and above all trust your gut. There are great programs out there and horrible programs out there, and it's very very difficult to tell which is which from the outside. One thing I noticed that the good ones have in common is that they treat the patients and the parents/families with dignity, even while being firm with the boundaries they need to set for the sake of all stakeholders.
Good luck.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Thanks MOP--the worst part about this now is we got her home on the 16th and the facility promised all these treatments--new psychiatrist, med management, new m/h therapist and the four hour outpatient program to be put in place last Thursday and NOTHING has happened. So we now have this manic, depressed teenager here with zero services. She at least has gotten away from the suicide threats, but it has been replaced with rage towards her mom and I. This is something we have never seen from her.
Last Friday, we had a great day together and we ended it with Starbucks and we got her this new PS4 game she has been dying for--she was in heaven. One hour later she comes down and begins to scream at us out of the blue about a comment I made about her makeup two years ago (she went through a phase of using a makeup pencil to write words on her face ala Post Malone and the school said don't do this because it was interpreted as gang symbols-I simply reminded her not to do this one day two years ago as I was driving her to school). This memory somehow surfaced and progressed to you guys have never supported me. I am never trusting you. You have mentally and emotionally abused me all my life. It was shocking to see this fury come out from nowhere.
Next day she spends crying because she realizes she ruined her big Father's Day plan for me. I tell her it is okay and Sunday we will do it all. We end up having a great day. Monday--she is sitting at the table doing French homework and she begins to ramp up. All I said was, "Honey, let's not do this, okay?" Oh man, it was on--she went into the pantry and took all the food she could carry into her room and said she was never coming out. She didn't talk to us most of Tuesday, but did try to leave the house, which we told her no, we would drive her to the park. She sat on a bench alone in the pouring rain. Yesterday--she was sweet as pie, hugs and I love you's throughout the day. Last night we were playing a board game and I said i was planning a surprise for her today, nope, here comes the I still don't forgive you for what you said. I am not going anywhere with you. Slams door. This morning she was flat, but at least not mean to us.
We know this is all because the meds aren't being monitored and she has zero therapy. She can't control her mood swings when she had all these pharmaceutical interventions before and then had them all just pulled away. Anyone would bound to be off and unstable.
I am on my 10th phone call and i finally got someone an hour ago who said they would look into what the hold up was with the treatment. We can't go into the weekend without some help. We are really scared for her and frankly us.
tuffnutt
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I have been there. it's amazing how hard it can be to get the right mental health care for adolescents.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Pay no attention, they know not what they do.
Good to see you, you're story is horrifying but I appreciate you coming out of your bunker to chime in and share your thoughts on this subject.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
What did you all do during the day that was great leading up to Starbucks? I'm guessing she ordered something with a lot of sugar or caffeine. I want to help you CJ, I know this is going to be difficult but you have to control the diet first and you should eliminate sugar, caffeine and all stimulants because we also don't know what impact that has had with the medications or possible future drugs they might want to try.
I/m going to be very specific...breakfast needs to be Oatmeal, Banana, NO COFFEE, fruits, watch anything where they add in sugar. I wouldn't let her have an orange juice, just hand her an orange. Sugar is like Cocaine for a lot of people. She needs to be made aware that every time she eats she is sending things in that are mixing with her brain chemistry. You don't see a lot of Vegans in Psych Wards to be honest. I'm not supporting a vegan diet here because I eat chicken and fish all the time but again it's grilled and I cook it mostly. I control what I eat so I don't get upset or full of rage at other people. Fast Food should be 86'd as well, you and the Mrs might have to start cooking a lot more or having a private chef(tons of them unemployed) and have them prepare her meals for the week.
And instead of making her feel bad, I would act like you have some vry good answers to her problems and exude confidence that this can work. She has gotta want it to work but I truly believe if you get her diet under control and whatever outdoor activity she likes, she needs to be doing it a lot. I would take her for a bike ride like every day, go in a different direction from the house to change things up. Young adults like to feel important, can you put her "in charge" of something like "Dad really needs to get more exercise, would you mind helping push me so I can get in better shape?" And maybe she will take to being your caretaker instead of you being hers and she doesn't feel so much pressure like everyone is staring at her.
I have recently joined a Men's Group on Monday Nights and boy am I going to have some people to pray for this week or add to our prayers list. MOP not very religious and not sure why they want me to come every week but I will be happy to stand up and send a good vibration your way and @tuffnutt and this list seems to be getting longer and longer. The FFA is just riddled with horror stories of late, reads like Ian McEwan's Atonement.
Life gets in the way and despite the pandemic and hysteria, peoples lives must move on and you have a real problem on your hands that is only made harder by everything happening around you. I want you to find a place that you find comforting and I want you to take a step back and gather yourself. You've done nothing wrong, you're going to get thru the initial Hurricane...think of it like when the visiting football team has to withstand that initial surge.
You got rocked, punched right between the eyes and you're a little punch drunk at the moment. You're down 10-0 but it could've been 21-0. You must make some changes to the game plan is all I'm saying. Get outside the box, don't listen to "Health" experts trying to sell you something.
I don't know where it exists but I bet there is a forum out there somewhere for parents with kids going thru the same thing and those people might have better information or hope. Godspeed CJ Godspeed
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
If you're a man of faith, you're proabably already doing the prayer part. It has been a critical part of dealing with everything as me and my wife struggle through the issues my daughter has faced.
One thing I'll mention as well, if you are a Christian with a Roman Catholic background, you may be familiar with St. Dymphna. I'll tell the story sometime but if you are open to praying to the saints for intercessory prayers, look her up. She has really been a HUGE help to us and our daughter.
One thing I'll mention as well, if you are a Christian with a Roman Catholic background, you may be familiar with St. Dymphna. I'll tell the story sometime but if you are open to praying to the saints for intercessory prayers, look her up. She has really been a HUGE help to us and our daughter.
Nigel
Footballguy
The FFA is a great place to vent/get advice anonymously, but I'm not sure these types of problems are disproportionately high among FFF-offspring. I actually think the youth of today in general are riddled with mental health issues, girls being particularly prone to it (what a ####ty place today's world is for teenage girls). I think folks who take steps to get their kids help mostly do so on the down low, which we did with our daughter. Others just try to deal with it themselves or ignore it altogether. People don't talk about it within their social circles though. Nobody wants to get "labeled", which is sad.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I agree Nigel, and I was going to just hit the smiley face but I wanted you to know I thought about what you said. I'm not sure it's disproptoolongaword high but it might reflect where in 1999 a lot of the board was teens, 20s and 30s...those folks are now moving ahead 20 years and life gets in the way sometimes. Many have had families and it's a normal progression to encounter some of these issues.Nigel said:
""Get out of the way mother####ers, I'm coming through!"
-Nigel
Old School driving threads
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
hope things are improving for you. just went through basically the same thing this past weekend after my daughter had been out of residential for about 10 days. Fortunately, she was able to communicate well enough with us and was willing to go back to inpatient to stabilize and be safe.
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