Colin Dowling
Footballguy
And now the 1st round has 2 viable LBs (Johnson and Crowder) followed not to distantly by Kevin Burnett and Lance Mitchell.COlinChanning Crowder declared today
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HERD's NFL Mock - Short Version (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Colin Dowling
- Start date
Barry Jive and The Uptown Five
Footballguy
I think DAN Cody is locked in as a 4-3 DE. I don't see the bulk necessary for a 3-4 DE nor the speed/pass coverage skills for OLB.Now, SEAN Cody of USC? He's a perfect 3-4 DE. The 3-4 teams should target him to move outside from DT. But the DAL slot is much to high for him. He's a #30-45 overall range (read Steelers).
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
After watching the Chargers pick fall from #7 to #12 on the Giants game winning drive Sunday nite, I'm stoked to see some of these underclassmen coming out. The more top juniors declare, the more value there is in the mid and late 1st round. Looks like a quality OT or DE will be available when the Chargers pick again between 28-32.Is Thomas Davis a top 15 pick? Boulware showed how dominant a backer moving to safety can be with the Hawks this year, but I don't know much about Davis.?????
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Depends on who's picking. I think if the Lions can move down 2 or 3 spots, they'll jump on Davis. 15 would be just right for them (or even the Titans) who could use a quliaty safety. COlin
buddy of mine is a big UGA supporter, has been talking about Davis all year.He told me that Davis is the best ballhawk he's ever seen, is always creating the big play, and continuously providing the highlight-reel hits. A coverted LBout of necessity a year or so ago b/c of injuries to DBs. There is a nice profile on him in Bob Magaw's IDP Ear to the Ground from week 17. Maybe not aSean Taylor, but pretty close. I could understand Davis maybe being top 15.
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Davis is more Sean Jones than Sean Taylor. He's good, very good, and he's undoubtedly the top Safety in the draft, but he's not Taylor.COlin
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I must admit to finding it interesting that we so readily use Sean Taylor as the litmus test for NFL safeties when Ed Reed, a Hurricane not-so-long ago himself, has arguably become the league's premier defender.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
We'll see...there aren't likely to be too many safeties in the league at one time which are legitimate NFL Defensive Player of the Year candidates, and Reed's one of them.No question Taylor has all the potential in the world, but he wouldn't be the first to not live up to the hype, at least to not COMPLETELY live up to the hype.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I prefer Reed also. I was using Taylor as a comparison because thats the player mentioned in the previous post. COlin
COlin
Much more value at 7 than at 12. ####### Dallas defense.......I was only using Taylor as an example because of similar body type (both around 6'1"-6'2" and 230-ish lbs) and being well known for big hits and playmaking. Nodoubt Reed is the benchmark for DBs, but Taylor/Davis seem to be cut from the same cloth.I prefer Reed also. I was using Taylor as a comparison because thats the player mentioned in the previous post.
cstu
Footballguy
1. Kiwanuka (4-3 DE) - He's thin, but he's an athletic freak and already has good technique. I don't want to compare him to Kearse necessarily, so think of him as a "Speed Rusher who can defend against the run", which is essentially the ideal DE.2. James (4-3 DE) - Probably more Pro-Ready than the Kiwanuka, but likely not as much upside.3. Roth (4-3 DE) - Strong player who has made a move up boards by being a leader on the field and producing4. Shaun Cody (3-4 DE)5. Marcus Spears (3-4 DE)6. David Pollack (4-3 DE)7. Dan Cody (4-3 DE)Don't forget about Rodrique Wright who could also be used as a 3-4 DE.I would prefer the Chargers draft Cody with the #28 than use their early one on Spears since Cody is more of the pass rusher the Chargers need. I'm intrigued by Wright who is good against the run and pass.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
Kiper's latest chat (would post, but it's Insider) offered a few nuggets I figured I would pass along:
1) Justin Miller, CB, Clemson -- is projected as a top 15 overall prospect right now and will be battling with A. Rolle for the top CB spot. Miller is a ball hawk who always seems to be in position to make the big play.
2) Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, WVU -- will also figure into the mid first round mix at corner
3) Matt Leinart, QB, USC -- Leinart reminds Mel of Tom Brady. Can throw on the run, he makes smart decisions when a play breaks down, should be the top overall pick.
4) Alex Smith, QB, Utah -- "DEFINITELY" a first rounder, could be a high first rounder. Aside from incredibly efficient passing numbers, also ran for 10 TDs. Finesse passer in the Chad Pennington mold, but seems to never make the wrong decision.
5) Shawne Merriman, DL, Pittsburgh -- Probably a mid first rounder, is an ideal fit for any team running the 3-4 so his draft stock largely comes down to when one of those five teams looks to grab him.
6) Ryan Moats, RB, LaTech -- Tremendously productive but given the depth at RB this year, will most likely be a 2nd day selection.
7) Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State -- Needs to impress scouts in the workouts, shows a lack of intensity and has shown questionable decision making as to when he forces throws and when he tries to finesse them. His shoulder must be OK to work out or he'll fall considerably.
8) Mid Round QBs -- Kiper mentioned Kyle Orton, Jason Frye, Dan Orlovsky, Andrew Walter, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Derrick Anderson as guys who will go between 2nd and 5th rounds most likely
9) Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan -- If Edwards runs a good 40 time, he's a lock for the top 10, most likely falling no further than the Skins at 9.
10) Mike Williams, WR, USC -- Williams probably goes after Edwards unless Braylon runs a surprisingly slow 40 himself. Kiper seems Williams going in the 10-20 range.
11) Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina -- "Super blue chip" WR could go as high as top 15 overall and almost certainly looks like a first rounder and top 3 WR option, yet few are talking about him yet because he didn't play in a pass friendly offense as SC.
12) Linebacking Corps -- Ahmad Brooks is the best LB in the country and would displace Derrick Johnson atop the LB draft board if he declares. Johnson figures in the mid to late 1st round depending on whether Brooks declares. Channing Crowder is an X-factor...Kiper says "he'll need some good workouts" in order to rise up the board.
13) Maurice Clarett, RB, Ohio State -- Clarett continues to look like a late round/undraft free agent option. There are too many RB options this year without the baggage.
14) Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami -- Rolle is conservatively a mid first rounder. He needs to prove his recovery speed in order to move into the top 15 mix as many have already assumed he'll be.
HERD, curous to get your thoughts on these comments.
Woodrow
1) Justin Miller, CB, Clemson -- is projected as a top 15 overall prospect right now and will be battling with A. Rolle for the top CB spot. Miller is a ball hawk who always seems to be in position to make the big play.
2) Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, WVU -- will also figure into the mid first round mix at corner
3) Matt Leinart, QB, USC -- Leinart reminds Mel of Tom Brady. Can throw on the run, he makes smart decisions when a play breaks down, should be the top overall pick.
4) Alex Smith, QB, Utah -- "DEFINITELY" a first rounder, could be a high first rounder. Aside from incredibly efficient passing numbers, also ran for 10 TDs. Finesse passer in the Chad Pennington mold, but seems to never make the wrong decision.
5) Shawne Merriman, DL, Pittsburgh -- Probably a mid first rounder, is an ideal fit for any team running the 3-4 so his draft stock largely comes down to when one of those five teams looks to grab him.
6) Ryan Moats, RB, LaTech -- Tremendously productive but given the depth at RB this year, will most likely be a 2nd day selection.
7) Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State -- Needs to impress scouts in the workouts, shows a lack of intensity and has shown questionable decision making as to when he forces throws and when he tries to finesse them. His shoulder must be OK to work out or he'll fall considerably.
8) Mid Round QBs -- Kiper mentioned Kyle Orton, Jason Frye, Dan Orlovsky, Andrew Walter, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Derrick Anderson as guys who will go between 2nd and 5th rounds most likely
9) Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan -- If Edwards runs a good 40 time, he's a lock for the top 10, most likely falling no further than the Skins at 9.
10) Mike Williams, WR, USC -- Williams probably goes after Edwards unless Braylon runs a surprisingly slow 40 himself. Kiper seems Williams going in the 10-20 range.
11) Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina -- "Super blue chip" WR could go as high as top 15 overall and almost certainly looks like a first rounder and top 3 WR option, yet few are talking about him yet because he didn't play in a pass friendly offense as SC.
12) Linebacking Corps -- Ahmad Brooks is the best LB in the country and would displace Derrick Johnson atop the LB draft board if he declares. Johnson figures in the mid to late 1st round depending on whether Brooks declares. Channing Crowder is an X-factor...Kiper says "he'll need some good workouts" in order to rise up the board.
13) Maurice Clarett, RB, Ohio State -- Clarett continues to look like a late round/undraft free agent option. There are too many RB options this year without the baggage.
14) Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami -- Rolle is conservatively a mid first rounder. He needs to prove his recovery speed in order to move into the top 15 mix as many have already assumed he'll be.
HERD, curous to get your thoughts on these comments.
Woodrow
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Well, I think its sort of humorous that by the time draft day comes, Kiper will have had about 60 guys that are "sure" to go in round 1. 
If he's so sure ALex Smith is going in Round 1, that would imply no fewer than three 1st round QBs. That isn't shocking really. I think Smith could go in Round 1 certainly, but I for one am going to want to see his workouts and metrics before getting too excited. I'm not down on the guy, its just that I only saw him play twice this year: his first game and his last game. I thought he was a very good college QB with a good head on his shoulders. He didn't strike me as a 1st round guy necessarily, so I'll be watching.I think Rolle is slipping because despite his productivity and coming from Miami, he isn't as fast as people think. I could see 3 CBs going off the board before him, if not more. (Miller, Jones, Jackson, and/or Rogers)I completely disagree about his assessment of Brooks v. Johnson. Brooks may have more upside, but he overruns plays WAY too much and Johnson has been WAY too productive against quality competition to flatly state that Brooks is the better prospect. I'll remind everyone that last year, the productive guy (Vilma) ended up going higher than the "upside" guy (Williams) despite Kiper singing the same tune last year.I agree on Moats. I could see Merriman in the first, but more likely after pick 20. Williamson in the TOp-15? Its possible, but I think that someone would have to surprise us by picking a WR (like Dallas, or something like that) for 3 WRs to go in this Top-15. THere are certainly teams that need WR upgrades like Oakland and Chicago, but those teams also need a number of other upgrades that will be available when they pick (RB for Oakland, for example)HERD
If he's so sure ALex Smith is going in Round 1, that would imply no fewer than three 1st round QBs. That isn't shocking really. I think Smith could go in Round 1 certainly, but I for one am going to want to see his workouts and metrics before getting too excited. I'm not down on the guy, its just that I only saw him play twice this year: his first game and his last game. I thought he was a very good college QB with a good head on his shoulders. He didn't strike me as a 1st round guy necessarily, so I'll be watching.I think Rolle is slipping because despite his productivity and coming from Miami, he isn't as fast as people think. I could see 3 CBs going off the board before him, if not more. (Miller, Jones, Jackson, and/or Rogers)I completely disagree about his assessment of Brooks v. Johnson. Brooks may have more upside, but he overruns plays WAY too much and Johnson has been WAY too productive against quality competition to flatly state that Brooks is the better prospect. I'll remind everyone that last year, the productive guy (Vilma) ended up going higher than the "upside" guy (Williams) despite Kiper singing the same tune last year.I agree on Moats. I could see Merriman in the first, but more likely after pick 20. Williamson in the TOp-15? Its possible, but I think that someone would have to surprise us by picking a WR (like Dallas, or something like that) for 3 WRs to go in this Top-15. THere are certainly teams that need WR upgrades like Oakland and Chicago, but those teams also need a number of other upgrades that will be available when they pick (RB for Oakland, for example)HERD
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Well, I think its sort of humorous that by the time draft day comes, Kiper will have had about 60 guys that are "sure" to go in round 1.
as always Colin.
Evilgrin72
Footballguy
Personally, I think any team that takes Braylon Edwards ahead of Mike Williams is moronic. Jusy my opinion. Edwards is fast, but does not have great hands. Mike Williams is a human vacuum cleaner. Being a Steeler fan, I have seen the impact that a true deep threat has on an offense. Most teams will look to Edwards to be that guy.Those teams should look at Burress - he's big, but not fast. He's a 4.6 guy - plain and simple. He's big, he can jump, and he can make the tough catch (despite dropping some easy ones) That's why he's a good deep threat. Williams will be even better, and IMO a much more productive pro than Edwards.
Evilgrin72
Footballguy
It's possible, but I'd go with the guy who almost never drops a ball. Plax still doesn't have the greatest hands, although this season, he seems to have improved. Over the course of his career, he's been a guy who can make the juggling, one-handed catch with a guy draped on his back, then drop a ball that's right on the numbers on the next play.The point I was trying to make - maybe I didn't word it right - is that speed is not as important to being an effective deep threat as many seem to think, IMO. A guy who is big, can jump, can use his body, and makes the tough catch can be very effective at stretching the defense without running a 4.3 - Burress is proof of this.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
Kiper updated his Big Board to account for the juniors that have already declared.
C. Benson, RB, Texas
Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma (was 5th)
Aaron Rodgers, QB, Cal (debut)
Alex Smith, QB, Utah (debut)
Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn (was 2nd)
Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan (was 9th)
Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn (was 3rd)
Mike Williams, WR, USC (was 4th)
Travis Johnson, DT, FSU (was 8th)
Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas (was 7th)
Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina (debut)
Shawne Merriman, DE/LB, Maryland (debut)
Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, WVU (debut)
Roddy White, WR, UAB (debut)
Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin (was 6th)
Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami (was 11th)
Alex Barron, OT, FSU (was 12th)
Shaun Cody, DT, USC (was 15th)
Channing Crowder, LB, Florida (debut)
Thomas Davis, S, Georgia (debut)
Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
Jamaal Brown, OT, Oklahoma (was 16th)
Matt Roth, DE, Iowa (was 10th)
David Pollack, DE, Georgia (was 13th)
Bryant McFadden, CB, FSU (was 19th)Mel also mentioned that Matt Leinart (1st overall), LB Ahmad Brooks, TE Heath Miller, RB DeAngelo Williams and OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson would all figure immediately into the top 25 if they eventually declare.
Others dropping out of the top 25 include DE Marcus Spears (LSU), QB Charlie Frye (Akron), WR Mark Clayton (Oklahoma), OT Adam Terry (Syracuse), TE Alex Smith (Stanford), and CB Corey Webster (LSU)
C. Benson, RB, Texas
Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma (was 5th)
Aaron Rodgers, QB, Cal (debut)
Alex Smith, QB, Utah (debut)
Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn (was 2nd)
Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan (was 9th)
Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn (was 3rd)
Mike Williams, WR, USC (was 4th)
Travis Johnson, DT, FSU (was 8th)
Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas (was 7th)
Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina (debut)
Shawne Merriman, DE/LB, Maryland (debut)
Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, WVU (debut)
Roddy White, WR, UAB (debut)
Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin (was 6th)
Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami (was 11th)
Alex Barron, OT, FSU (was 12th)
Shaun Cody, DT, USC (was 15th)
Channing Crowder, LB, Florida (debut)
Thomas Davis, S, Georgia (debut)
Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
Jamaal Brown, OT, Oklahoma (was 16th)
Matt Roth, DE, Iowa (was 10th)
David Pollack, DE, Georgia (was 13th)
Bryant McFadden, CB, FSU (was 19th)Mel also mentioned that Matt Leinart (1st overall), LB Ahmad Brooks, TE Heath Miller, RB DeAngelo Williams and OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson would all figure immediately into the top 25 if they eventually declare.
Others dropping out of the top 25 include DE Marcus Spears (LSU), QB Charlie Frye (Akron), WR Mark Clayton (Oklahoma), OT Adam Terry (Syracuse), TE Alex Smith (Stanford), and CB Corey Webster (LSU)
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Hold onto your hat then, seems like Kiper might be onto something. Looks like we continue to underestimate Alex Smith. From Len Pasquarelli's Tip Sheet, according to Len, 3 of 7 NFL scouts polled named Alex Smith as the TOP QB PROSPECT
ahead of Leinart (3 others named Leinart).http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=1961563
cstu
Footballguy
I like Alex Smith, he's an extremely smart guy and has all the tool you look for. I believe he's up there with Leinart, but Leinart has proven himself in back to back years under a lot of pressure. For Kiper to rank 3 QB's in the top 5 (assuming he would put Leinart #1 when/if he declares) it seems like he overvaluing the QB's in this draft. I don't know about Rodgers, he screams "system QB" to me. No doubt he was very good in college, but I'm leery of one year wonders, especially one who played under the same coach as Akili Smith and Boller (though he could still turn into a fine QB).Hold onto your hat then, seems like Kiper might be onto something. Looks like we continue to underestimate Alex Smith. From Len Pasquarelli's Tip Sheet, according to Len, 3 of 7 NFL scouts polled named Alex Smith as the TOP QB PROSPECT
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Marcus McNeil is going back to school, further depleting a weak O-line class.COlin
Futility
Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't some teams/personell discussed the idea of Johnson playing WLB or SLB? Concerns over his build have some teams worried about playing the middle. He certainly has a frame to build on, but he may not be confidence-inspiring to teams hoping to fill the MLB spot. IIRC though, wasn't this an initial concern with Lavar Arrington? Personally, I don't think it will be a prohibitive problem for Johnson, but so many tiny things make teams change directions when it comes to the NFL draft.
