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Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
My bad, I thought the standard for guilty verdicts was still beyond a reasonable doubt. Now that I know the standard is merely "probable cause", I stand corrected.
Carry on.
Oh, I suppose its possible that there is evidence in an innocent man's house, but you're right, why waste the time of an innocent man. Police have too much important stuff to do than to look for evidence.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
http://www.crimeinamerica.net/2010/01/25/crime-statistics-no-prison-sentences-for-most-felony-convictions/
Who knows the accuracy of this, just one statement to point out:
"More to the point, the great majority of defendants with felony convictions do not end up in state prisons".
Now obviously some felonies are different than others, and when we know what he is actually charged with the might be a halfway reasonable percentage we can put on it.
Who knows the accuracy of this, just one statement to point out:
"More to the point, the great majority of defendants with felony convictions do not end up in state prisons".
Now obviously some felonies are different than others, and when we know what he is actually charged with the might be a halfway reasonable percentage we can put on it.
GregR
Footballguy
Don't know about Connecticut, but from a web search, it looks like the federal version has a 10 year statute of limitations.
I think 6 months to a year is a completely unrealistic number to expect, given how slow the criminal system moves.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Another quote from that:
"A significant number of felony defendants are not incarcerated."
"A significant number of felony defendants are not incarcerated."
squistion
Footballguy
You keep embarrassing yourself with every posting. I would ask you to stop, but I enjoy watching
ghostguy123
Footballguy
SO based on actual statistical evidence, and me simply saying it is POSSIBLE Hernandez doesnt go to prison and does play again................who is embarrassing themself exactly?You keep embarrassing yourself with every posting. I would ask you to stop, but I enjoy watching
Not only are a significant number of defendants not found guilty.............but a significant percentage of the ones who ARE found guilty do not see a day in prison.
And again, these are FELONIES
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KCitons
Footballguy
One step at a time.
Let's see a show of hands: How many FBG's have had their home's searched?
Not me.
squistion
Footballguy
SO based on actual statistical evidence, and me simply saying it is POSSIBLE Hernandez doesnt go to prison and does play again................who is embarrassing themself exactly?You keep embarrassing yourself with every posting. I would ask you to stop, but I enjoy watching
Not only are a significant number of defendants not found guilty.............but a significant percentage of the ones who ARE found guilty do not see a day in prison.
And again, these are FELONIES
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Did you even read the thing?? I mean, you can try and say you "burned me" or whatever you are sttempting, but wow.SO based on actual statistical evidence, and me simply saying it is POSSIBLE Hernandez doesnt go to prison and does play again................who is embarrassing themself exactly?You keep embarrassing yourself with every posting. I would ask you to stop, but I enjoy watching
Not only are a significant number of defendants not found guilty.............but a significant percentage of the ones who ARE found guilty do not see a day in prison.
And again, these are FELONIES
I figured you couldnt or wouldnt find anything on your own, and I am bored at work, so I took the liberty.
So, would you like to discuss anything tangible here?
squistion
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Umm, alrighty. Just posted a link to some statistics of felony convictions. Care to actually read them and maybe respond to any of that in relation to me stating that there is a POSSIBILITY AH doesnt go to prison??
Your move chessmaster.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
quote:
"Finally, the new research states that 41 percent of felony convictions end up in state prison."
again, this does not specify the actual charge.
"Finally, the new research states that 41 percent of felony convictions end up in state prison."
again, this does not specify the actual charge.
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Not the first time Connecticut has been mentioned in the thread. Why is it relevant?
buck naked
Footballguy
Can't wait for actually news to come out, because this thread NOW BLOWS.
KCitons
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
what the everloving hell are you talking about? How many times does it need to be said (by me) that NOTHING is certain here in the slightest.
KCitons
Footballguy
41% of felony convictions end up in state prison? But, it doesn't specify the actual charges? I was just pointing out that you are talking in circles.
I would guess that most (if not all) murderers end up in state prison. (the rest end up in federal prison)
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If he gets charged with murder, then we can discuss that.
If he gets charged with obstruction and/or some other things, we can discuss that.
And to point out the obvious, I SAID it didnt speficy the actual charges. Do you know what he will be charged with??
squistion
Footballguy
Irrelevant to a high profile celebrity defendant like AH. Unlike your garden variety thug, the prosecution will not be agreeable to this being pled down and most probably will go to trial (unless AH doesn't fight it and agrees to some prison time).
If it goes to trial and there is a conviction (which is likely IMO for obstruction of justice at the very least) the judge will probably not be lenient and just give him probation or face the public backlash of being accused for giving special treatment to the rich and famous.
Yes, there is a possibility he doesn't go to prison, which is equal to the possibility that he is not guilty of any wrongdoing in this case.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
Yeah...this "ghostguy" person's trolling makes it difficult to get through things. I hate using ignore, but I recommend it - the way posts are minimized on this new board you don't even notice them.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So being a celebrity who has a lot of money for nice fancy lawyers makes him MORE likely to be found guilty IF he is charged with something major??
Well, I will disagree with that.
squistion
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Do you have any idea exactly WHAT you are arguing at this point??
Very simple. All I am saying is there is a CHANCE he does not go to prison, and a CHANCE he plays football again.
ANything more specific is just a total guess because we have no idea what he will be charged with when all is said and done.
You are saying he is going to prison with about a 99.99% certainty, correct?? At least that is what you make it seem as though you are saying.
I would agree that if charged, the prosecution will be going all out to convict. But that still doesnt change my opinion that it doesnt make it MORE likely he is convicted. Good lawyering on one side balanced out by good lawyering on the other.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's amazing I can have the opinion that a guy MIGHT not go to prison and MIGHT play again, and I am a "troll".
For the sake of humanity, I hope the D-bag gets 50 years to life. What I hope is pretty irrelevant to what can or can't happen.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Definitely a very emotionally charged thread-- and I can't blame anybody for this. Somebody was killed--this is a very serious matter. However-- there is a lot that we don't know--as this is an ongoing investigation--but there is some that we do know. We don't know who the shooter is and what Aarons role (if any) was in this tragedy. We do know the police do view him as a person of interest--and his house a place of interest (possibly linked to the crime scence, or possibly containing evidence that could provide some light to this investigation). We do know that two people were taken into custody from Aarons house from the first day of the search--but didn't take Aaron with them. This could be good or it could be bad for Aaron. It's possible they suspect one of them to be the shooter--or it's very possible that they feel like questioning (interrogating) them privately might motivate them to speak up. We do know that Aaron was with the deceased and a few other guys hours before the deceased passed. We also do know that Aaron destroyed surveillance tapes and his cell phone--which could lead to obstruction charges. We also know that the current commish of the NFL is a tyrant and does not like situations where the league's already questionable image gets compromised even further. We also know that the Patriots are a proud organization that don't tolerate much in the world of negative distractions. The fact of the matter is that I imagine that the Patriots will keep Hernandez out of their facilities until the things settle down big time in regards to this situation and Hernandez is cleared. We all know the legal process tends to take a very long time--so there is a very high likelihood that Hernandez will not be practicing with his team for a very long while. Basic point is that---even if Hernandez navigates through these potential legal issues, he still has to deal with the Patriots, the tyrannical commish, and the court of public opinion (driven by the media). These basic facts alone lower his value by a decent amount in my opinion---basically because his situation is risky at best. If I'm an owner, I'd probably hold or take any decent offers for him. If I wasn't an owner, I'd either stay away or shoot out extremely low ball offers.
KCitons
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Sadly, there are more than one who keep the row going and make it hard to find what little substance is here.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
ghostguy -> please do everyone a favor and stop.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
May as well. hernandez is going to prison, football career over.
Why is anyone even following this thread anymore?? It's done, prison, career, all of it.
Peace
BaBastage
Footballguy
This may just me being pedantic, but most warrants are indeed issued on innocent people.
"Innocent until proven guilty" and all that.
After warrants are issued, the prosecution may determine guilt, but at the time of arrest, suspects are still innocent in the court of law.
KCitons
Footballguy
Yes, I know everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But probable cause is what allows the warrant.
They could serve a warrant on my house weekly and no one would care (or know). To pull two on a prominent sports figure can ruffle some feathers. You don't do that without a good reason. Especially since the dead guy was found at a different location and it's been reported that the guy was killed where they found the body. How does Hernandez's house have any connection to the crime without some tie to the crime scene? Perhaps the rental car was good enough for a warrant. But, I doubt it. There was some other reason.
Just sayin'
GregR
Footballguy
Some thoughts on the case. Some expanding on earlier discussions.
Assuming there wasn't a prior appointment for the cleaning, the phone destruction, hard drive destruction, and cleaning all occurring will probably make it tough to convince a jury evidence wasn't being destroyed. If the hard drive was actually beat up to disable it, as opposed to it looking in normal shape but just not working, it would suggest evidence being destroyed even more.
So what options are there if that is the case? Someone destroyed the evidence, so if AH wants to avoid time for that he has to pin it on someone else. Anyone who he tries to pin it on, the question would be asked what would be their motive for destroying the phone and hard drive? I can't imagine a story where the answer isn't concealing evidence in the murder.
So implicating someone else in the evidence destruction would pretty much be fingering them as an accomplice in the murder. Let's say the three of them all had a hand in the murder, what would one of them do if he's getting blamed for the evidence destruction? They would probably roll on each other unless there is a payoff of some kind involved. And at that point you might as well have the person take the blame for the murder since you're pretty much making him look guilty over the evidence destruction.
On top of it, there is an aspect I was thinking about with the cleaning service. It could be argued that someone surreptitiously destroyed his phone and the hard drive without AH knowing (whether believed or not by a jury). But the cleaning service people are going to be able to speak to whether AH knew they were coming there, whether he directed them on what should be cleaned, etc.
Again, if the cleaning service was a scheduled appointment, the testimony of those cleaners could really be damning if AH took a personal hand in their hiring and direction once they arrived. If on the other hand it was one of his buddies who took care of it, that might help support any claims that someone else was responsible for the phone and hard drive too and that he had no idea what transpired.
Edit to add: And if AH argues someone else did destroy the phone and hard drive to cover up evidence, that leads to the question, why did AH's phone and security system have evidence of the murder that would need destroying? He'd have to come up with something that has himself not being in control of his phone most likely. And given all three suspects entered the house together around 3:30 am according to witnesses... yeah, I just don't see a very believable story being crafted if they did commit the murder.
The other thing I've been wondering about is one of the rental cars was missing its side mirror and the police were looking for it along the route the car would have taken. That could suggest something particular happening in the timeline of the murder. Perhaps there was a struggle and someone's body hit the mirror and broke it off? Was there an accident involved that led to an altercation? Haven't heard anything more about it. But the cops could probably tell from traffic cameras if it was still on the car when they left the club I should think. The whole thing with the mirror is making me wonder what other physical evidence there might be with the car.
Assuming there wasn't a prior appointment for the cleaning, the phone destruction, hard drive destruction, and cleaning all occurring will probably make it tough to convince a jury evidence wasn't being destroyed. If the hard drive was actually beat up to disable it, as opposed to it looking in normal shape but just not working, it would suggest evidence being destroyed even more.
So what options are there if that is the case? Someone destroyed the evidence, so if AH wants to avoid time for that he has to pin it on someone else. Anyone who he tries to pin it on, the question would be asked what would be their motive for destroying the phone and hard drive? I can't imagine a story where the answer isn't concealing evidence in the murder.
So implicating someone else in the evidence destruction would pretty much be fingering them as an accomplice in the murder. Let's say the three of them all had a hand in the murder, what would one of them do if he's getting blamed for the evidence destruction? They would probably roll on each other unless there is a payoff of some kind involved. And at that point you might as well have the person take the blame for the murder since you're pretty much making him look guilty over the evidence destruction.
On top of it, there is an aspect I was thinking about with the cleaning service. It could be argued that someone surreptitiously destroyed his phone and the hard drive without AH knowing (whether believed or not by a jury). But the cleaning service people are going to be able to speak to whether AH knew they were coming there, whether he directed them on what should be cleaned, etc.
Again, if the cleaning service was a scheduled appointment, the testimony of those cleaners could really be damning if AH took a personal hand in their hiring and direction once they arrived. If on the other hand it was one of his buddies who took care of it, that might help support any claims that someone else was responsible for the phone and hard drive too and that he had no idea what transpired.
Edit to add: And if AH argues someone else did destroy the phone and hard drive to cover up evidence, that leads to the question, why did AH's phone and security system have evidence of the murder that would need destroying? He'd have to come up with something that has himself not being in control of his phone most likely. And given all three suspects entered the house together around 3:30 am according to witnesses... yeah, I just don't see a very believable story being crafted if they did commit the murder.
The other thing I've been wondering about is one of the rental cars was missing its side mirror and the police were looking for it along the route the car would have taken. That could suggest something particular happening in the timeline of the murder. Perhaps there was a struggle and someone's body hit the mirror and broke it off? Was there an accident involved that led to an altercation? Haven't heard anything more about it. But the cops could probably tell from traffic cameras if it was still on the car when they left the club I should think. The whole thing with the mirror is making me wonder what other physical evidence there might be with the car.
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cstu
Footballguy
- A body shot in the back of the head and his car one mile from the crime scene.
- His destroyed surveillance recording and phone as well as the hiring of a cleaning crew the morning after the murder.
- Video of men walking into his home between 3 and 3:30 am.
There's enough evidence for a 1st degree murder charge. I imagine the police have a lot more evidence that we don't know about yet.
Or... Lloyd had his own car from Aaron and he was out buying drugs for them. Deal goes sour drug dealer or someone kills him for the money, Aaron doesn't want evidence that he was sent out to buy drugs for the group with Aaron's money. But if that is the case he just made it a LOT harder to be proven innocent. There are a few scenario where I could see Hernandez being innocent. not gonna go on a tangent with them, just know there is still a small hope that he won't be guilty of murder, or even possibly obstruction. Don't say 100% chance he goes to jail, because that stat is 100% false! I would say until we know more there is no 100% way to be certain he shot the guy, and since he possibly destroyed the videos before they were searching him, it could possibly not hold up as obstruction... I am holding him on my dynasty holding onto that small grain of hope until I hear more... Would suck to have dropped him then have one of the goon friends confess the next day/week/month and have someone snatch him off of waivers before you can. Depending on roster size i can see how in some leagues it may be necessary to cut him, but in large roster leagues and, especially, in dynasty leagues... What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Is that not the way it works around here now?
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Just a point of clarification: at this stage we don't :know: that AH destroyed his security system and phone. the media has reported that those things were destroyed, and people have assumed that AH is responsible, but we have not seen anything to confirm AH was responsible.
It is equally as possible that one of the associates destroyed the equipment.
It is equally as possible that one of the associates destroyed the equipment.
gandalas
Footballguy
Sorry Jello, but Bohemian Rhapsody is one of the best rock songs of all time. And I am not even that big of a Queen fan overall.Yes, I'm the 5 year old. You act like selling albums makes an artist great. The Backstreet Boys sold a bunch of albums, too. You must be a big fan.You sound foolish! AIDS and Three No bodies? You obviously are 5 years old.
They were one of the best selling rock Bands of all time.
Nobodies? HA!
massraider
Footballguy
How probable is it that AH knew nothing about his security system being destroyed, and had no say in the matter?
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
There are TONS of assumptions going on in this thread. Sure AH could be guilty of murder, or trying to help his friends, we just don't know yet. Might be nice to wait and see what the actual chargers are before everyone decides his fate. Unless one of you posters was hiding in his closet or trunk, I doubt you really know who shot, smashed, or trashed anything in this investigation.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Do you want to put the entire thread on lockdown until he's charged or absolved? There's literally almost nothing else in the NFL to talk about right now. Of course it's speculation, but its speculation off of reports and leaked information.
KCitons
Footballguy
As if it even matters what we think. All this talk of innocent until proven guilty really only applies to the court proceedings. How many people thought OJ was guilty? Before,during or after the trial?
99.9% of the people posting in this forum will have no bearing on the fate of Hernandez. (if one of you gets chosen for jury, sneak in and post updates on FBG please)
The only reason I can see someone being upset about all the discussion, is because they own AH on a fantasy team and they're having a hard time figuring out what to do with him. Welcome to the Shark Pool, this won't be the last time misinformation messes with your fantasy team.
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Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
Very hard to discuss much of this without stepping on Hernandez owner's toes. I posted it before but maybe it needs to be done a few times to sink in. There really is nothing that owners could do to prevent much of this so rather than taking out hostility or embarrassment you have of owning him, forget about that stuff and just realize this is part of the game. I understand in high stakes dynasty leagues this could potentially cost you some money but that has no bearing on this thread.
Thankfully no one has been burned in redraft on this guy. I hope at some point we find the truth of what happened however I don't think that is ever going to truly happen here. And props to the cops for not rushing into anything, taking their time, methodically going over evidence and being very cautious with the media and not showing their hand too fast. Hernandez is not going anywhere and if he does then he will only look more guilty than he already does. At the least without knowing everything, it doesn't look good. You can paint it all kinds of ways but I thought Anarchy had a great summary a few posts up.
Thankfully no one has been burned in redraft on this guy. I hope at some point we find the truth of what happened however I don't think that is ever going to truly happen here. And props to the cops for not rushing into anything, taking their time, methodically going over evidence and being very cautious with the media and not showing their hand too fast. Hernandez is not going anywhere and if he does then he will only look more guilty than he already does. At the least without knowing everything, it doesn't look good. You can paint it all kinds of ways but I thought Anarchy had a great summary a few posts up.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
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