Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (2 Viewers)

[Sinn Fein]

You guys realize that breaking a phone has no impact on obtaining call records, right. By my observations here, I don't think AH is dumb. Absent witness testimony, I don't think they will be able to pin murder charges on him. I think the destruction of the phones and security system were done to eliminate incriminating evidence. I suspect the gun, and clothes worn by AH and his buddies are either long gone from the area, or in the case of the clothes, bleached clean.

But, we don't know right now when the security system was broken, or who broke it. We don't know who broke the phone.

The police have their work cut out for them, even for an evidence tampering charge - and for their sake, I hope they have not excluded other potential suspects in their investigation. That will look bad later.

I think the best case scenario for the police here, if there are no other suspects, is to charge the three with conspiracy, and hope 1 flips.

 

[jmo87usc]

Since we're all playing the "what if" game, I thought I'd throw out a scenario no one has offered up...

We keep mentioning covering up drug use, and it's assumed that it's marijuana. What if it's steroids, HGH, etc.? What if his surveillance systems and phone records indicated he had contact with a pharmaceutical rep who was feeding him HGH as he recovers from his off-season shoulder surgery? With Gronk being dinged, maybe he saw this as his chance to get healthy for once and step out from Gronk's shadow. Does a first-time offense for performance-enhancing drugs draw a suspension? Maybe he's more afraid of Belichick and Goodell than he is the police.

AH: "Damn, now that XXX whacked my boy Odin, and since we were spotted together last night I'll definitely be questioned. Before they subpeona my phone records and videotapes, I'll destroy them. There's evidence of meetings/communications with my PED contact on them."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's innocent, or not knowledgable to what happened because WE DON'T KNOW, but just throwing out another option to WHAT exactly he might be covering up.

10 Points for creativity, but you make Hernandez out to be some kind of Genius. Let's just assume for fun that he really wasn't involved, but heard about it. I can't imagine the first thing he thinks is that the police will be coming to question him and look for evidence. At least no within the first 12 hours of hearing the news.

I would imagine if he really was a friend, and Hernandez really wasn't involved somehow, that he would be grieving or consoling his fiancee and her sister.

We now have a weeks worth of information to think of these wacky scenarios. There is no way he came up with something that elaborate that fast.

 

[unckeyherb]

To me it would be more plausible if neighbors didn't hear a gunshot, he wasn't seen with the victim hours before his death, he wasn't placed in his car after the bar, a car rented to him wasn't found at the scene, he didn't hire a cleaning crew the following day, he didn't smash his surveillance system and he didn't smash his phone. It could all be just a lot of weird coincidences and there are 9 "plausible" explanations but taking a step back if it wasn't Hernandez that had millions of dollars and played professional football and just some John Doe who was a construction worker I think everyone would see this as an open and shut case.

The way I see it, if the info we have is all true the DA has enough to try him. They know he's not going to run, so they are going to make sure they get it right. And, I would be shocked if they aren't trying to iron out the details in info we aren't privy to. Also, because it is so high profile they are probably outsourcing to experts which takes more time. Murder investigations often don't begin with an arrest. It is a murder investigation and will most likely result in charges against one or more suspects. We just need to accept that we are all going to have to wait for the DA and the investigators.

Try him for what?

Obstruction of justice - what standard of evidence is there that the prosecutor should prove beyond reasonable doubt that something on the phone or the surveillance system was pertinent to the murder? This would be very important I would think.

I don't think that the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was something pertinent to the murder. The cops can simply say "we wanted to look at his phone to see if there was any photographs of the victim taken within 24 hours of his death, but now we can't... because AH broke the phone." That would seem like textbook obstruction. No proof of said photos would be required.

 

[Spin]

Have they said who destroyed the phone/surveillance system? How likely is it that one of his buddies claims to have broken everything and gets hit with obstruction charges instead of Hernandez?

 

[PatsFanCT]

To me it would be more plausible if neighbors didn't hear a gunshot, he wasn't seen with the victim hours before his death, he wasn't placed in his car after the bar, a car rented to him wasn't found at the scene, he didn't hire a cleaning crew the following day, he didn't smash his surveillance system and he didn't smash his phone. It could all be just a lot of weird coincidences and there are 9 "plausible" explanations but taking a step back if it wasn't Hernandez that had millions of dollars and played professional football and just some John Doe who was a construction worker I think everyone would see this as an open and shut case.

The way I see it, if the info we have is all true the DA has enough to try him. They know he's not going to run, so they are going to make sure they get it right. And, I would be shocked if they aren't trying to iron out the details in info we aren't privy to. Also, because it is so high profile they are probably outsourcing to experts which takes more time. Murder investigations often don't begin with an arrest. It is a murder investigation and will most likely result in charges against one or more suspects. We just need to accept that we are all going to have to wait for the DA and the investigators.

Try him for what?

Obstruction of justice - what standard of evidence is there that the prosecutor should prove beyond reasonable doubt that something on the phone or the surveillance system was pertinent to the murder? This would be very important I would think.

I don't think that the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was something pertinent to the murder. The cops can simply say "we wanted to look at his phone to see if there was any photographs of the victim taken within 24 hours of his death, but now we can't... because AH broke the phone." That would seem like textbook obstruction. No proof of said photos would be required.

Yeah, but I don't think that's what LuckyOne was referring to.

 

[Kit Fisto]

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd

Neither do I, but you should have stopped right there if you truly believed that. At least the Hernandez apologists are conceding the possibility he's involved. I do; I think he was there, or was shortly beforehand. Could have been a drunken argument between homies that got out of hand, could have been gang or drug-related, could have been a pissed-off girlfriend. But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

Maybe we could concede the fact that the evidence that's been leaked by the media is nothing more than circumstantial at this point. Whole lotta Matlock's out there on both sides. Maybe there is no evidence of "drug use", etc. because it hasn't been plastered all over the news by overzealous reporters.

This scenario is implausible to the "string him up" crowd? AH witnesses one of the above scenarios I suggested, and knowing that he'll definitely be questioned about it, cleans out his closets (no pun intended) of all ALL WRONGDOINGS before the cops come knocking? This is so hard to believe?

 

[KCitons]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

there are two or three guys that need to just stop posting.

Gee, I hope I am one of them

 

[KellysHeroes]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm sure the police know more than there letting on, but so far there isn't much of a case against AH.

Destroyed Security system - unless the police can prove it was destoried after the killing I don't think it'll hold up. It'll be claimed that it was destoried prior to the killing and unless tapes or harddrive is recovered I don't see how that can be poven otherwise.

Cleaning crew cleans the house monday morning - honestly, is a cleaning crew going to be able to remove forensic of a struggle prior to a murder? I really don't think so and if the cleaning crew is willing to testify that they didn't see anything out of the ordinary it will help his case rather than hurt it. Even if he did schedule the service Monday morning he can claim that he doesn't know anything about a murder and wanted his place cleaned while he goes to practice.

Destroyed Cell Phone - this is the one that can hurt if the phone was on his persons all that night and at the murder site. I know the GPS service "can be turned off" by the phone user but is it really? Some say and have proved that when u have a smart phone the GPS is never off even when select it to go off. As for breaking the phone, I doubt that he would take pics or videos of the murder unless he ###-taped it by accident, I agree w/ the point that the phone was busted up to protect him from other activities like drug use.

As for banning him from practices and training camp. The Pats can ban him but if theres no charges they'll have to pay him his wages and bonus hes entitled too as if he showed up, as much as I hate it the NFLPA will have to stick for AH as long as hes not officially charged. Even if he is charged he would still have a right to work until proven guilty.

Yeah, except for the whole thing about Hernandez being seen with the deceased shortly before he was murdered, and that a car rented in his name was at the crime scene, and that he was out in the middle of the night around when the murder took place, and that he was seen after the murder with the only other two guys seen with the deceased before the murder, and the proximity to his house, and the fact that he knows him....

 

[Kit Fisto]

Since we're all playing the "what if" game, I thought I'd throw out a scenario no one has offered up...

We keep mentioning covering up drug use, and it's assumed that it's marijuana. What if it's steroids, HGH, etc.? What if his surveillance systems and phone records indicated he had contact with a pharmaceutical rep who was feeding him HGH as he recovers from his off-season shoulder surgery? With Gronk being dinged, maybe he saw this as his chance to get healthy for once and step out from Gronk's shadow. Does a first-time offense for performance-enhancing drugs draw a suspension? Maybe he's more afraid of Belichick and Goodell than he is the police.

AH: "Damn, now that XXX whacked my boy Odin, and since we were spotted together last night I'll definitely be questioned. Before they subpeona my phone records and videotapes, I'll destroy them. There's evidence of meetings/communications with my PED contact on them."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's innocent, or not knowledgable to what happened because WE DON'T KNOW, but just throwing out another option to WHAT exactly he might be covering up.

10 Points for creativity

Thanks!

But this is exactly what the "he's guilty" crowd is doing as well. Dreaming up scenarios that fit agendas, using FOXNews and CNN are credible sources. You don't think there's been misinformation reported by news channels? I think it's safe to say that the police know MUCH MUCH MUCH more than we do, and are keeping things in-house, letting the news say what they wanna say?

Don't call me pot, and I won't call you kettle. Let's just have some fun supposing.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

there are two or three guys that need to just stop posting.

Yyyyeaaaah.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

It's possible, though slight, that when he heard that his buddy got popped, he figured out it was one of the guys that were staying with him, and he wanted to make sure there was no evidence of them in his house or on his phone. It was clearly not well thought out, but that could be what happened there.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think clearly the most likely explanation is that Hernandez has a Jack Donaghee-like doll collection, and when his friend was murdered, his first thought was that his house was going to be searched, and the doll collection would come out. So he destroyed his surveillance system (which was really just used to protect the doll collection the whole time), and his cell phone (which he used to take pictures of them all the time) and locked up all of the dolls in a safe. Unfortunately the police locksmith was able to open it, and all of the dolls came out in the paper bags.

People saying that Hernandez destroying his cell phone and surveillance system had anything to do with the murder that occurred to his friend very close to his house immediately after he saw him and with a car rented in his name at the scene are just reaching.

 

[johnadams]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

It's possible, though slight, that when he heard that his buddy got popped, he figured out it was one of the guys that were staying with him, and he wanted to make sure there was no evidence of them in his house or on his phone. It was clearly not well thought out, but that could be what happened there.

Just thinking, but if he had potentially incriminating or even questionable texts, photos, etc. on his phone, we've all heard how simply deleting these may not be enough once forensics gets involved. I don't know how true it is, but it would be enough to spook me if I had something I didn't want the coppers to see.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

A state judge has ordered the court records sealed in the Odin Lloyd murder investigation.

It means any new development — like the issue of a search or arrest warrant — won't be immediately announced to the public or media. Perhaps the court believes the intense public scrutiny was hurting the investigation. Aaron Hernandez does not appear to be on the verge of being charged with a crime.



Source: Boston Herald

 

[KellysHeroes]

I'm sure the police know more than there letting on, but so far there isn't much of a case against AH.

Destroyed Security system - unless the police can prove it was destoried after the killing I don't think it'll hold up. It'll be claimed that it was destoried prior to the killing and unless tapes or harddrive is recovered I don't see how that can be poven otherwise.

Cleaning crew cleans the house monday morning - honestly, is a cleaning crew going to be able to remove forensic of a struggle prior to a murder? I really don't think so and if the cleaning crew is willing to testify that they didn't see anything out of the ordinary it will help his case rather than hurt it. Even if he did schedule the service Monday morning he can claim that he doesn't know anything about a murder and wanted his place cleaned while he goes to practice.

Destroyed Cell Phone - this is the one that can hurt if the phone was on his persons all that night and at the murder site. I know the GPS service "can be turned off" by the phone user but is it really? Some say and have proved that when u have a smart phone the GPS is never off even when select it to go off. As for breaking the phone, I doubt that he would take pics or videos of the murder unless he ###-taped it by accident, I agree w/ the point that the phone was busted up to protect him from other activities like drug use.

As for banning him from practices and training camp. The Pats can ban him but if theres no charges they'll have to pay him his wages and bonus hes entitled too as if he showed up, as much as I hate it the NFLPA will have to stick for AH as long as hes not officially charged. Even if he is charged he would still have a right to work until proven guilty.

Yeah, except for the whole thing about Hernandez being seen with the deceased shortly before he was murdered, and that a car rented in his name was at the crime scene, and that he was out in the middle of the night around when the murder took place, and that he was seen after the murder with the only other two guys seen with the deceased before the murder, and the proximity to his house, and the fact that he knows him....

great points, I was refering to the physcial evidence.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

Remember this scene from The Fugitive... Richard Kimball finds a picture of the one-armed man on a fishing trip with the pharmaceutical big-shot? No one would have connected the two parties before the discovery of that photo.

Fiction, I know... save your flames.

 

[Dippa]

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

As said earlier, the location data from cell towers likely isn't accurate enough to differentiate between the murder scene and his house.

The GPS location data in his cell phone is generally accurate within a few yards. After looking into it, cell phones have been analyzed to recover the GPS location data for murder cases. The carrier has his phone records, text messages, and general location, but I think the GPS location data has to be recovered from the device itself. That is the most likely reason for smashing his cell phone IMO.

Also, location data can be used as a defense as well, so if he truly had nothing to do it, he destroyed one of the few items of evidence that could prove he was not at the crime scene.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

It's possible, though slight, that when he heard that his buddy got popped, he figured out it was one of the guys that were staying with him, and he wanted to make sure there was no evidence of them in his house or on his phone. It was clearly not well thought out, but that could be what happened there.

Just thinking, but if he had potentially incriminating or even questionable texts, photos, etc. on his phone, we've all heard how simply deleting these may not be enough once forensics gets involved. I don't know how true it is, but it would be enough to spook me if I had something I didn't want the coppers to see.

I think clearly the most likely explanation is that Hernandez has a Jack Donaghee-like doll collection, and when his friend was murdered, his first thought was that his house was going to be searched, and the doll collection would come out. So he destroyed his surveillance system (which was really just used to protect the doll collection the whole time), and his cell phone (which he used to take pictures of them all the time) and locked up all of the dolls in a safe. Unfortunately the police locksmith was able to open it, and all of the dolls came out in the paper bags.

People saying that Hernandez destroying his cell phone and surveillance system had anything to do with the murder that occurred to his friend very close to his house immediately after he saw him and with a car rented in his name at the scene are just reaching.

Arrrrrgh!!! No one is saying he had NOTHING to do with it; clearly he did. But in the scenarios I supposed, when he knew his involvement in the crime (witness, accessory, whatever) might draw attention to his other transgressions (dope, PEDs, teenage hookers) he wiped his house clean. He may cop to witnessing the crime and sell his boys out once he knows he's in the clear from BB and Goodell.

To say there was evidence of a murder on his cell phone is reaching just as far as saying it didn't.

 

[msommer]

To me it would be more plausible if neighbors didn't hear a gunshot, he wasn't seen with the victim hours before his death, he wasn't placed in his car after the bar, a car rented to him wasn't found at the scene, he didn't hire a cleaning crew the following day, he didn't smash his surveillance system and he didn't smash his phone. It could all be just a lot of weird coincidences and there are 9 "plausible" explanations but taking a step back if it wasn't Hernandez that had millions of dollars and played professional football and just some John Doe who was a construction worker I think everyone would see this as an open and shut case.

The way I see it, if the info we have is all true the DA has enough to try him. They know he's not going to run, so they are going to make sure they get it right. And, I would be shocked if they aren't trying to iron out the details in info we aren't privy to. Also, because it is so high profile they are probably outsourcing to experts which takes more time. Murder investigations often don't begin with an arrest. It is a murder investigation and will most likely result in charges against one or more suspects. We just need to accept that we are all going to have to wait for the DA and the investigators.

Try him for what?

Obstruction of justice - what standard of evidence is there that the prosecutor should prove beyond reasonable doubt that something on the phone or the surveillance system was pertinent to the murder? This would be very important I would think.

I don't think that the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was something pertinent to the murder. The cops can simply say "we wanted to look at his phone to see if there was any photographs of the victim taken within 24 hours of his death, but now we can't... because AH broke the phone." That would seem like textbook obstruction. No proof of said photos would be required.

That seems like a very low burden of proof

 

[heidbrink]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

 

[KCitons]

Something that makes little sense...

The pro-Hernandez folks are arguing that the security system/cell phone destruction was likely to hide evidence of a 'drug stash' and 'drug use', right?

You realize there is far less circumstantial evidence of that than there is of a possible connection to this murder, right?

I have no idea if Hernandez is or isn't involved with the death of Odin Lloyd (whether being directly involved, or involved in a cover-up)...

But I find it quite odd that those defending Hernandez are completely willing to fabricate a drug possession/use narrative to argue their viewpoint, especially when there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

I just don't really see what the point of destroying the phone was for? Was he dumb enough to photograph the murder or events leading up to it? Maybe, anything is possible.

Maybe there was previous photographs of the actual murder weapon, I know plenty of stupid friends that take photos of a gun they purchased and even pose with them for their friends.

But I really wouldn't be surprised if there was other suspendable activities photographed on that phone that would of surely leaked out to the media.

It's possible, though slight, that when he heard that his buddy got popped, he figured out it was one of the guys that were staying with him, and he wanted to make sure there was no evidence of them in his house or on his phone. It was clearly not well thought out, but that could be what happened there.

Just thinking, but if he had potentially incriminating or even questionable texts, photos, etc. on his phone, we've all heard how simply deleting these may not be enough once forensics gets involved. I don't know how true it is, but it would be enough to spook me if I had something I didn't want the coppers to see.

The problem is, most people think that just deleting a picture or video on your phone is good enough. I had a memory card with some school files a couple of years ago. It was in my laptop when I went to format my usb drive. I selected the wrong format and wiped out the memory card instead.

Took me about 30 minutes to find a free program and about 2 hours for the program do it's magic. I had all of my information back.

Computer Hard drives are similar. I've seen some formatting software that erases with one pass, three passes, or 10 passes (I think the last one was called Department of Defense, but it takes days to format at that level)

Point is, I doubt Hernandez knows this much. And no one reported seeing the Geek Squad at his house on Monday.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

Very good post, except for the final sentence. I think his "homeys" would maybe take a fall for a robbery or some relatively minor crime. For a big-time homicide with a 20-to-life type of sentence, I don't think so even they would be that stupid if AH actually did do it.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

Agreed, great post. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's when folks around here mock others from their ivory towers cuz they know everything about everything that gets a touch annoying.

 

[GregR]

...

Obstruction of justice - what standard of evidence is there that the prosecutor should prove beyond reasonable doubt that something on the phone or the surveillance system was pertinent to the murder? This would be very important I would think.

I don't think that the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was something pertinent to the murder. The cops can simply say "we wanted to look at his phone to see if there was any photographs of the victim taken within 24 hours of his death, but now we can't... because AH broke the phone." That would seem like textbook obstruction. No proof of said photos would be required.

That seems like a very low burden of proof

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong. They have to convince beyond a reasonable doubt that he destroyed the item, that the item was something that would be of interest to a criminal investigation, and that the destruction was done with the intent of keeping it from such an investigation.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you are treating it like several others here have, that the crime is something like "destroying really pertinent evidence". It isn't. It's obstructing the investigation. If the investigation reasonably needs to check your phone and you destroy it, that's obstructing the investigation. Even if your phone didn't contain anything about the crime.

 

[Kit Fisto]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

 

[Anarchy99]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

Not to beat a dead horse some more, but it's possible all three guys could never be tried for murder and all three of them could go to jail for 20 years if they are charged with any number of other crimes.

 

[KCitons]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

25 percent chance doesn't get him arrested or charged with murder. Nevermind a conviction

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

I think the fact he destroyed possible evidence at his house raises the chances he was heavily involved in the situation (I.e., at least there when it happened which could bring murder/accessory charges).

Think; if he wasn't there, if it was an accident, or even if he didn't pull the trigger and had no idea it was going to happen, wouldn't he at least consider either telling the truth or just sitting back, hiring a lawyer and keeping his mouth shut. All the cleanup at his residence doesn't seem to give him any credibility on the murder case, so I don't buy he was trying to cover up drugs, etc...

 

[Phenix]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

Agreed, great post. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's when folks around here mock others from their ivory towers cuz they know everything about everything that gets a touch annoying.

Why does everyone want to assume he is guilty when he has not been arrested or charged with any crime at all?

Given the history that we learned, you mean was told by the media? You sound foolish like you believe everything you see or read on TV or the internet. There is a commercial on TV making fun of people just like you. http://youtu.be/v_CgPsGY5Mw

 

[Sinn Fein]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

25 percent chance doesn't get him arrested or charged with murder. Nevermind a conviction

Doesn't need to be the shooter to go down for murder. If there is enough circumstantial evidence, they can charge three of them, four if you like the GF here, with conspiracy to commit murder. Then it becomes as simple as 4 go out, 3 come back, 1 is dead - then let the jury weigh in on it. Given all of the circumstantial evididence including the fact they were together, nobody has offered a story about why the victim was missing, shots heard by neighbors, video of AH and his buddies showing up shortly after shots fired, phone destroyed, security system destroyed, cleaning company called...

I don't think it's unreasonable for a jury to conclude, based on that evidence, that one of them was a shooter, and they acted in concert, and convict them all. If nothing else it might persuade one of them to talk, because, I don't think you can leave that narrative in the minds of the jurors, and have them naturally wonder why nobody is offering a different explanation - protections against testifying notwithstanding.

This case is probably too high profile to simply shrug your shoulders. In the absence of other compelling suspects or alibis, the DA will ultimately pursue this angle, without a witness or weapon.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think some people are not fully considering that there are three separate hurdles for Hernandez to get through this unscathed.

1) Law enforcement

2) The NFL / Goodell

3) The Pats / Kraft

Roethlisberger got suspended and never got charged with a crime. The same could hold true with Hernandez. If either Goodell or Kraft catches wind of what went down, if they interview Hernandez and he cries that he is 100% innocent and then gets charged or covered things up, if the league or the Patriots feel that Hernandez is giving the league or the team a black mark, then Hernandez is going to miss some games. Whether that turns into a lengthy suspension is too hard to tell at this stage.

 

[KCitons]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.

A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

25 percent chance doesn't get him arrested or charged with murder. Nevermind a conviction

Doesn't need to be the shooter to go down for murder. If there is enough circumstantial evidence, they can charge three of them, four if you like the GF here, with conspiracy to commit murder. Then it becomes as simple as 4 go out, 3 come back, 1 is dead - then let the jury weigh in on it. Given all of the circumstantial evididence including the fact they were together, nobody has offered a story about why the victim was missing, shots heard by neighbors, video of AH and his buddies showing up shortly after shots fired, phone destroyed, security system destroyed, cleaning company called...

I don't think it's unreasonable for a jury to conclude, based on that evidence, that one of them was a shooter, and they acted in concert, and convict them all. If nothing else it might persuade one of them to talk, because, I don't think you can leave that narrative in the minds of the jurors, and have them naturally wonder why nobody is offering a different explanation - protections against testifying notwithstanding.

This case is probably too high profile to simply shrug your shoulders. In the absence of other compelling suspects or alibis, the DA will ultimately pursue this angle, without a witness or weapon.

I'd have to see her first

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I think some people are not fully considering that there are three separate hurdles for Hernandez to get through this unscathed.

1) Law enforcement

2) The NFL / Goodell

3) The Pats / Kraft

Roethlisberger got suspended and never got charged with a crime. The same could hold true with Hernandez. If either Goodell or Kraft catches wind of what went down, if they interview Hernandez and he cries that he is 100% innocent and then gets charged or covered things up, if the league or the Patriots feel that Hernandez is giving the league or the team a black mark, then Hernandez is going to miss some games. Whether that turns into a lengthy suspension is too hard to tell at this stage.

I bet he'd be happy to get through law enforcement right now. The amount of effort being focused on Hernandez, his property and vehicles makes one think the police really believe he played a significant role in the murder.

 

[Kit Fisto]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

I think the fact he destroyed possible evidence at his house raises the chances he was heavily involved in the situation (I.e., at least there when it happened which could bring murder/accessory charges).Think; if he wasn't there, if it was an accident, or even if he didn't pull the trigger and had no idea it was going to happen, wouldn't he at least consider either telling the truth or just sitting back, hiring a lawyer and keeping his mouth shut. All the cleanup at his residence doesn't seem to give him any credibility on the murder case, so I don't buy he was trying to cover up drugs, etc...

Evidence of what exactly did he destroy? The murder or other transgressions of varying degrees that have been presented? We might never know.Why would he talk when he hasn't been charged with anything? Only his reputation is suffering right now, and those can be repaired. How do Ravens fans feel about Ray Lewis? Donte Stallworth came back to the

 

[KCitons]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

I think the fact he destroyed possible evidence at his house raises the chances he was heavily involved in the situation (I.e., at least there when it happened which could bring murder/accessory charges).Think; if he wasn't there, if it was an accident, or even if he didn't pull the trigger and had no idea it was going to happen, wouldn't he at least consider either telling the truth or just sitting back, hiring a lawyer and keeping his mouth shut. All the cleanup at his residence doesn't seem to give him any credibility on the murder case, so I don't buy he was trying to cover up drugs, etc...

Evidence of what exactly did he destroy? The murder or other transgressions of varying degrees that have been presented? We might never know.Why would he talk when he hasn't been charged with anything? Only his reputation is suffering right now, and those can be repaired.

You're trying to say, since the courts can't prove that there was evidence to begin with, how could it be destroyed?

 

[Sinn Fein]

A few "facts" that we really don't know, and presumably the police have a better handle on will figure heavily on how this case proceeds:

1. Can anyone determine when the security system was destroyed? If it was Monday, bad news for AH, if it was before, it gets interesting.

2. What evidence is there of who destroyed the system? This goes hand-in-hand with when it was destroyed. It probably does not matter, if the police can determine time, and who was present in the home at the time. Just charge conspiracy, and let the defendants fight it out.

3. When was the cleaning company called? What did they do, or what did they see? Or, are they mobbed up?

4. Better timeline of known events, starting with when they were together, to when gun shots may have been heard, to when video shows AH showing up at his house. How long does it take to drive, how long does it take to walk from scene, etc.

5. What phone calls did any of the suspects make that night, or earlier?

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

I think the fact he destroyed possible evidence at his house raises the chances he was heavily involved in the situation (I.e., at least there when it happened which could bring murder/accessory charges).Think; if he wasn't there, if it was an accident, or even if he didn't pull the trigger and had no idea it was going to happen, wouldn't he at least consider either telling the truth or just sitting back, hiring a lawyer and keeping his mouth shut. All the cleanup at his residence doesn't seem to give him any credibility on the murder case, so I don't buy he was trying to cover up drugs, etc...

Evidence of what exactly did he destroy? The murder or other transgressions of varying degrees that have been presented? We might never know.Why would he talk when he hasn't been charged with anything? Only his reputation is suffering right now, and those can be repaired. How do Ravens fans feel about Ray Lewis? Donte Stallworth came back to the

Forget his NFL career for a minute, I think there's a possibility Hernandez commuted murder and may get away with. We don't know the facts.The only point I was trying to make is that the lengths he went to, to possibly destroy evidence, seem to indicate he was more than an innocent bystander or unwilling participant.

 

[KCitons]

But I don't think Hernandez was the triggerman.

It seems to me that he's one of the three most likely people in the world to have been the triggerman.

A 33 percent chance he did it means there's a 66 percent chance he didn't. Don't forget the girlfriend too. That makes 4 likely triggermen.A 25 percent chance he did it won't get him convicted of murder, however.

I think the fact he destroyed possible evidence at his house raises the chances he was heavily involved in the situation (I.e., at least there when it happened which could bring murder/accessory charges).Think; if he wasn't there, if it was an accident, or even if he didn't pull the trigger and had no idea it was going to happen, wouldn't he at least consider either telling the truth or just sitting back, hiring a lawyer and keeping his mouth shut. All the cleanup at his residence doesn't seem to give him any credibility on the murder case, so I don't buy he was trying to cover up drugs, etc...

Evidence of what exactly did he destroy? The murder or other transgressions of varying degrees that have been presented? We might never know.Why would he talk when he hasn't been charged with anything? Only his reputation is suffering right now, and those can be repaired. How do Ravens fans feel about Ray Lewis? Donte Stallworth came back to the

Forget his NFL career for a minute, I think there's a possibility Hernandez commuted murder and may get away with. We don't know the facts.The only point I was trying to make is that the lengths he went to, to possibly destroy evidence, seem to indicate he was more than an innocent bystander or unwilling participant.

Or he thinks he is smarter than the police and has no idea just how detailed a murder investigation can get.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I think some people are not fully considering that there are three separate hurdles for Hernandez to get through this unscathed.

1) Law enforcement

2) The NFL / Goodell

3) The Pats / Kraft

Roethlisberger got suspended and never got charged with a crime. The same could hold true with Hernandez. If either Goodell or Kraft catches wind of what went down, if they interview Hernandez and he cries that he is 100% innocent and then gets charged or covered things up, if the league or the Patriots feel that Hernandez is giving the league or the team a black mark, then Hernandez is going to miss some games. Whether that turns into a lengthy suspension is too hard to tell at this stage.

Roethlisberger was a unique case, the crime scene was "cleaned" by professionals (Ben's body guards and a couple of off-duty cops that where hanging out) before it could be investigated. Then the accuser wished for charges to be dropped for multiple reasons. Finally the D.A even held a press conference stating that there was no way he believed he could hold any charges against Ben and didn't want to waste the towns $$ on it; but he damm well made sure Goodell was aware of every fact he dug up during the investigation. Still, only getting 4 games for what I consider rape is light imo. Ben knew he did wrong and that he was very lucky to only get what he got.

 

[N Zone]

To me it would be more plausible if neighbors didn't hear a gunshot, he wasn't seen with the victim hours before his death, he wasn't placed in his car after the bar, a car rented to him wasn't found at the scene, he didn't hire a cleaning crew the following day, he didn't smash his surveillance system and he didn't smash his phone. It could all be just a lot of weird coincidences and there are 9 "plausible" explanations but taking a step back if it wasn't Hernandez that had millions of dollars and played professional football and just some John Doe who was a construction worker I think everyone would see this as an open and shut case.

The way I see it, if the info we have is all true the DA has enough to try him. They know he's not going to run, so they are going to make sure they get it right. And, I would be shocked if they aren't trying to iron out the details in info we aren't privy to. Also, because it is so high profile they are probably outsourcing to experts which takes more time. Murder investigations often don't begin with an arrest. It is a murder investigation and will most likely result in charges against one or more suspects. We just need to accept that we are all going to have to wait for the DA and the investigators.

Try him for what?

Obstruction of justice - what standard of evidence is there that the prosecutor should prove beyond reasonable doubt that something on the phone or the surveillance system was pertinent to the murder? This would be very important I would think.

I don't think that the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was something pertinent to the murder. The cops can simply say "we wanted to look at his phone to see if there was any photographs of the victim taken within 24 hours of his death, but now we can't... because AH broke the phone." That would seem like textbook obstruction. No proof of said photos would be required.

That's all well and good, but in the meantime maybe they could (and hopefully are) following up on other leads, investigating others that they know associated with Odin Lloyd, including, his girlfriend, and the two other guys, and actually find out why was he killed, who had a reason to kill him. I know this is an ff forum but it bores me reading about AH opinions. To anyone, please post real facts as they become available and make it easy to find your post in this huge amount of meaningless posts, although I do enjoy reading the speculation too, without any more facts, it's getting pointless.

Does anyone know if it's been asked or revealed if the rental car found near the body was driven by AH that night, or if AH was driving a different car, when he left with the 3 "friends" that night?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

How much money would be worth spending 15-25 years in jail on a murder charge?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

How much money would be worth spending 15-25 years in jail on a murder charge?

5million..? Obviously if someone goes down, these friend who were there, if they didn't commit the crime directly, are going to do jail time anyways right?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Why does everybody want to assume that he wasn't the trigger man. He has already "allegedly" shot somebody else in the face. I'm going with the idea that the two incidents are not altogether unrelated either. Given the history that we've learned about over the last week or so I'm not nearly as quick as some of you to assume he just might have been "present" or tangentially connected. I'm just saying that it is just as (more?) possible that he is in fact the trigger man here. The homey's are in for a big payoff if they can keep quiet...and take the fall.

Agreed, great post. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's when folks around here mock others from their ivory towers cuz they know everything about everything that gets a touch annoying.

Why does everyone want to assume he is guilty when he has not been arrested or charged with any crime at all?

Given the history that we learned, you mean was told by the media? You sound foolish like you believe everything you see or read on TV or the internet. There is a commercial on TV making fun of people just like you. http://youtu.be/v_CgPsGY5Mw

There's nothing more irritating than watching the rampant display of belief in the "given" truth. The number of sycophants I witness daily gives me little hope that humans will survive in the long run. It's sad. We have so much potential.

 

[bucsbaby]

What's wrong with saying: "Based on the information that has been made available to us through the media, I am assuming/concluding that he is guilty, either of murder, or at least very serious, related charges, with the minimum being obstruction of justice" -- and then revising that position if/when new, disconfirming evidence is made available?

The information that we have atm doesn't look good for Hernandez imo. If new information becomes available, maybe he looks a lot better, is innocent, etc., at which point one can revise an assumption/conclusion of guilt.

Sure, no one KNOWS anything with 100% certainty. Therefore, it's reasonable to hold the belief that he is innocent or at least innocent until proven guilty. However, it also seems reasonable to me to assume that it is highly plausible that he is guilty of a serious crime, possibly murder (with him pulling the trigger).

 

[PatsWillWin]

Worst SP thread ever?

 

[Pickle Rody]

There's nothing more irritating than watching the rampant display of belief in the "given" truth. The number of sycophants I witness daily gives me little hope that humans will survive in the long run. It's sad. We have had so much potential.

corrected

 

[KCitons]

Just start a poll.

Is he guilty? Yes/No

 

[Gopher State]

Worst SP thread ever?

no way grass hopper, this is one of the best, when this breaks lots of posters will be eating crow. This will not end well