False Start, there seem to be some fundamental misunderstandings about evidence and the law in this thread.
1) Innocent until proven guilty is an instruction to a seated jury, doesn't bind the thread to think AH is innocent (any more than it did with OJ before the trial).
When it conflicts with the responsibility of the police and courts to not allow a suspected murderer to be a threat to the community (for, I don't know, the fact that there is a mountain of evidence pointing to him murdering the witness of an earlier double murder), that takes primacy.
2) That circumstantial evidence is not the grounds or basis for a murder conviction. Many/most murders convictions are in fact arrived at without an eyewitness, real time video capturing it or a still smoking gun with fingerprints on it. If this were not so, we would be flooded with many more murderers walking around free... who would than be able to murder more people... than walk around free again. You should be careful what you wish for.
3) That it is a constitutional and legal right to not cooperate with and actually obstruct murder investigations (its my security camera to do whatever I want with
). When AH did these things, he lost the right to claim he was not at least part of a murder conspiracy.
Are there any of these principles you are unfamiliar with, don't understand or disagree with? Lawyers pop into the thread at times, and than we could nail down some of these fundamental points, and see who is right and who is wrong.
You did a kind of check list upthread, in which you answered some of the allegations such as another man got shot in the face with answers like "People die every day and get killed every day, Hernandez must have killed them all." If you were a lawyer defending AH and said that in the summation to the jury, the judge would have to order a recess to restore order in the court from people laughing too hard.
What you are doing is checking off these questions with isolated, irrelevant answers that ignore the interconnected web of linkages and the totality of the mountain of evidence against him. You talk about rational and reasonable, but it is hard to see how anybody could look at the below list and not come away with the conclusion that AH had some level of involvement, whether he actually pulled the trigger or not. You and Sarnoff aren't one in 12, more like one in 100 or 1,000. Each weapons charge could bring 10 years in a max sentence (?). Do you think he is innocent of THAT?
Do you think the police framed him with some of the evidence? Should we let all murderers go, because all evidence could theoretically have been planted by police?
Should all suspected serial killers (lets say Bundy, Gacy, Ramirez and Dahmer were convicted by circumstatial evidence) be allowed bail to walk free because they are "innocent until proven guilty"?
Should we categorically ignore all evidence, because it is "reported by the media"?
How do you, to use your terminolgy, rationally and reasonably explain the circumstances of that night, in terms of the pattern of interconnections between the evidence (not cavalierly dismissing each one in isolation as if they weren't related), in a way that is consistent with AH being completely innocent of at least conspiracy charges? How would you rationally and reasonably explain destroying his security camera if he is in fact completely innocent of all charges?
A synopsis of the circumstantial evidence. Highlights excerpted...
- Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
- Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
- At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
- at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
- at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
- Surveillance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
- between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
- cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the murder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
- Hernandez's own Surveillance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
- Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
- autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
- two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistent with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
- at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
- they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
- all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1h6euh/full_account_of_the_evidence_against_hernandez/
The charges:
- Murder
- Carrying a firearm without a license
- Possession of a large capacity firearm x2
- Possession of a firearm without and FID card x2
The evidence:
- Victim found 1/2 mile from Hernandez's home w/ numerous gunshot wounds
- 5 .45 caliber shells found at the scene, fired from a semi-auto weapon, based on the locations and distance between them.
- Victim was not robbed, had wallet, keys and phone.
- Keys were to a rental car, registered to Hernandez.
- Phone contained text messages between the victim and Hernandez, within hours of the murder.
- Victim's sister said her brother left at 2:30 AM in a silver Nissan Altima with three people inside
- Hernandez had been renting a Silver Nissan Altima
- Hernandez had known the victim for about a year, The victims girlfriend is the sister of Hernandez's Fiance
- The police went to question Hernandez, Who didn't answer the door. a squad car was placed outside. Eventually Hernandez came out, and told the cops he knew they were they and that he had been watching them on his surveillance system
- A warrant was issued to seize surveillance footage from Hernandez's home.
- Hernandez had recently installed a 14 camera system with cameras inside and out.
- Upon reviewing the footage, they noticed that the first 6-8 hours of footage after the time of the murder was missing.
- at 9:02 PM Hernandez texted a friend from out of state "please make it back"
- 9:05 he texted the victim, indicating he wanted to come by and get together with him
- 9:35 he texted the same out of state friend "get your ### up here" then at 10:23 "hurry your ### up"
- The man he was texting and one other showed up at Hernandez's home, seen on surveillance footage
- Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
- the three left Hernandez's home at 1:12 AM in the silver Nissan Altima, captured on surveillance, phone records and cell tower
- the went from Hernandez's home to route 95, headed south towards (? couldn't understand) they turned around and went north. the cell phone tower tracked their movement to a gas station off route 128
- at 2:10AM Hernandez bought Gas, Bubbalicious blue cotton candy gum, and black and milds which are used for smoking marijuana (the prosecutor seems to be mistaken about common blunt cigars but oh well)
- Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
- They drove back to North Attleboro, this is corroborated by some random surveillance cameras and route was determined by time and distance traveled.
- during the ride, Hernandez had a conversation with the victim indicating he was upset with him. The two had gone to a club together Friday night.
- he said some things happened that night and he wasn't sure if he could trust the victim, one of them was that the victim had spoken to some people He had troubles with, and he was mad about it.
- At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
- at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
- at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
- Surveillance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
- between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
- cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the murder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
- Hernandez's own Surveillance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
- Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
- autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
- two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistent with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
- at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
- they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
- all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
- later that day, 5:30 PM Hernandez and his companions return the Nissan Altima to the rental agency, Hernandez offers the attendant Blue Bubbalicious.
- one of the side mirrors is broken on the car, footage of the vehicle earlier in the night suggest it wasn't broken when he left Boston, he tells the rental agency he didn't even notice it. The evidence being that it was broken sometime between leaving Boston and arriving back at home.
- He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.
- At the rental agency, a piece of bubbalicious and a shell casing were found, attendant threw them away. When questioned, she told investigators about it, they found it in the dumpster, Shell casing matched to the casings found at the scene.
- Tire impressions at the murder scene right next to the body were consistent with a front wheel drive vehicle (altima is FWD)
- Investigators checked out the rental car. Tire treads matched those at the crime scene. Dirt found on the car also matched the crime scene
- They found a .22 nearby in a search of everywhere between Hernandez's home and the murder site. Hernandez a month prior had been involved an altercation in providence Rhode island. He had someone with him who was seen to place a gun under a car. This man matches the description of one of his companions on the night of the murder.
- The gun under the car in Providence was traced to a Florida gun store. The 22 found between Hernandez's home and the murder site was from the same store.
- further search warrant of Hernandez's home ordered. They found 22 ammo, but no 22 gun. They also found a large capacity 7.62 Hungarian semi auto rifle, and a fully loaded 32 round magazine . Hernandez's prints on it, he doesn't have the correct paperwork to own it.
- Not recovered was the Black semi auto handgun seen in Hernandez's hand before and after the murder. the second individuals gun not found either.
- Hernandez's girlfriend was spoken to by police, she was cooperating until a call from Hernandez telling her not to. She then stopped talking.
- the victim had defensive wounds and seemed to attempt to stop the bullets with his arms.
there also seems to be a sealed affadavit, so it looks like someone talked (especially since they know the convo with the victim in the car)
Another Man seems to have been arrested in connection with this case.
Carlos Ortiz
EDIT:
Hernandez reportedly being looked into in a double homicide from last year No clue about the validity, it's an unnamed source on a fox news affiliate so take it with a grain of salt.
EDIT2: Full video of the arraignment
EDIT 3:
Boston Globe reports victim may have been killed because he knew details of the double shooting Hernandez is being looked into for.
EDIT4:
Bail appeal hearing going on right now. Live video on NFL Network and ESPN
EDIT 5: apparently yesterday a warrant was issued for a condo in Hernandez's name. 3 boxes of .45 caliber ammo. Hummer registered to Hernandez outside the condo contained a magazine for a .45 handgun. Both the gun in the video seen in Hernandez's hand and the murder weapon were Glocks.
Prosecutor: doesn't want to disclose motive that hasn't already been made public, but there is more than he is saying now. Repeats motive from yesterdays arraignment. victim and defendant had an argument last Friday.
again references conversation in the car with the victim on the night of the murder. Hernandez indicates he is angry with the victim for talking to people Hernandez doesn't like at the club. Doesn't think he can trust him. "Hernandez had the motive and he was the one in control"
Sites
this image (I assume it's this image) as an example of what the murder weapon would look like, and as proof he had one.
Judge: evidence circumstantial for sure, but VERY VERY strong.
BAIL DENIED
