I know it is a little early in his career to start the GOAT talk but when I watch this guy I can't think of any returner that I've ever seen who has had such an impact on the game. Teams are either afraid to kick to him and the Bears gain a tremendous field position advantage or teams kick to him and he takes the kicks back for tds. I'm under 40 so maybe I'm not qualified to make the "greatest of all time" call but can anyone think of a return man that has struck such fear into the hearts of opposing teams?
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Hester......GOAT? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chreesto
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Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Yes, he is the greatest kick returner of all time. And teams should treat him like Barry Bonds in baseball; just kick it out of bounds every time.
Who else is in the GOAT conversation? Brian Mitchell, Mel Gray, Deion, Billy Johnson????
identikit
Footballguy
Gale SayersId
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Hester - 22 games played - 8 kicks and punts returned for TD's.
Deion Sanders - 189 games played - 9 kicks and punts returned for TD's.
Sayers - 68 games played - 7 kicks and punts returned for TD's.
Hester is without doubt the best kick/punt returner of all time. I didn't even count the one from the Super Bowl, these are just regular season stats.
Never, ever kick him the ball. EVER.
ETA: I missed Sayers' 2 punt return TD, but it doesn't matter... Hester already has more in 1/3 of the games played.
Deion Sanders - 189 games played - 9 kicks and punts returned for TD's.
Sayers - 68 games played - 7 kicks and punts returned for TD's.
Hester is without doubt the best kick/punt returner of all time. I didn't even count the one from the Super Bowl, these are just regular season stats.
Never, ever kick him the ball. EVER.
ETA: I missed Sayers' 2 punt return TD, but it doesn't matter... Hester already has more in 1/3 of the games played.
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Saints-Man
Footballguy
Current GOAT conversation is Deion Sanders and Gale Sayers.
Neo
The Dude minds
I knew he was great but WOW.
marshall88
Footballguy
Dante Hall was pretty good for a couple of years. In a span of 3 years, 2002-04, he had 4 punt returns for TDs and 5 kick returns for TDs. Seems like Hester will have to keep it up for the remainder of this year and for at least another year to lock in his title of GOAT.
Actually I think you forgot 1 td. Last year's return of the missed field goal doesn't usually show up in his stats. Counting that he had 6 last year + 3 this year = 9 not including the playoffs.
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
You know, I forgot about including Hall in this discussion and it's obvious he belongs there too. By the way, I mean no disrespect to Sayers or Sanders, they are much better overall football players than Hester, no doubt, but for strictly returning kicks and punts, Hester is just head and shoulders above everyone else.
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identikit
Footballguy
I brought up Gale Sayers because he should certainly be considered.That being said, based strictly on the returns aspect of the game, we are witnessing the best (so far) in Hester.Id
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
how can we exclude Greg Lewis from this discussion?
True, but a little misleading.Combining kicks and punts, Sayers had 8 TDs in 118 total returns. Hester has 8 TDs in 106 total returns. So they're pretty close to even in terms of opportunity. If you break it down, you find that Sayers actually has an edge in punt return TD percentage, while Hester is ahead in kick return TD percentage:
Punt returns Kick returns No. TD Pct No. TD PctSayers 27 2 7.4 91 6 6.6Hester 73 5 6.8 46 4 8.7So it's pretty close, and it wouldn't take a very long dry spell by Hester for him to fall behind in kick return TD percentage.That includes Hester's postseason, BTW. I don't have data on Sayers' postseason return numbers.
EDIT: to show how remarkable these numbers are, Deion Sanders' percentages are 2.8% on punts and 1.9% on kickoffs.
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Koya
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Gale Sayers down? It is VERY debeatbale, at least with the % numbers thrown in.
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Very good posting... I should have looked more closely at the opportunity numbers. Still, by the end of the 2008 season (provided Hester keeps up something close to his pace) it won't be debatable any longer for the same reason Bo Jackson is not the greatest NFL RB of all time... maybe he was the most talented but he didn't get enough opportunities. Same goes for Sayers, he didn't get enough chances and Hester will just be so much more prolific.
ctriopelle
Footballguy
Regardless of how you slice this, the numbers on Hester are still incredible. 8 td's in 22 regular season games is crazy. Basically every 3 games he can be counted on to score at this pace. And that is even with some teams now at least attempting to kick away from him. How does this kind of production stack up with regards to the next closest team performance in recent history? I suspect is it probably better than the 2nd and 3rd combined until you get back to the Deion or Hall era teams when they were lighting it up.
Why is it Da Bearss can be so fortunate on finding KR/PR talent, yet our all time QB talent dates back to the 40's, when they never really threw the ball? (and by today's standards would still rank as a poor passing QB)
Why is it Da Bearss can be so fortunate on finding KR/PR talent, yet our all time QB talent dates back to the 40's, when they never really threw the ball? (and by today's standards would still rank as a poor passing QB)
SteveInChicago
Footballguy
shakeybarn
Footballguy
I had considered Deion... have to remember though Deion wasn't "just" a kick/punt returner, but a full-time (and damned good one at that) defensive back, and even lined up at WR. Hester is a #4 WR, at most. Plus, while wearing his body out on baseball, too. That's not Hester's problem.. but a shear look at numbers. You can't look at game counts ... ya gotta look at number of returns.... The Chicago defense (until recent) was shutdown... and an opposing team punting 6+ times wasn't uncommon.As of now, I might go with Hester, but let's say he retires next week... what then?Speaking of Sanders,.... there's a number of known trivia facts (World Series and Super Bowl)(hit HR and scored TD in the same week).. but a funny more reaching one... he's the only player to catch a pass from Brett Favre in both college and pro.... INTs.
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videoguy505
Footballguy
IIRC (read something this morning on it), the record holder for career kick returns for TDs is Brian Mitchell, with 13 in 223 games. That's just shy of 14 years, 16 games a year.
Hester is on pace to break the record in like 35 games, total.
Hester is on pace to break the record in like 35 games, total.
Sinrman
Footballguy
Not saying he's the "best of all time" and he has been mentioned once in this thread, but Dante Hall has to at least be considered. In 102 games total, he has 12 TDs total (6 punt and 6 kick off). Just think back to 2003 when he was the most feared man alive! 
Overall, yes, Sayers was a great returner. But Hester has already surpassed him, I'm sorry. It doesn't overshadow what Sayers did in other aspects of the game by any means. We're talking strictly about returning kicks. I don't know why people think it's wrong to question and compare old-school players like Sayers with new-school players. People think it's taboo or something...
I'm a Lions fan, and hate the Bears naturally. But i'm in awe of Hester and how explosive he is. It just amazes me that teams actually kick to him still...
Overall, yes, Sayers was a great returner. But Hester has already surpassed him, I'm sorry. It doesn't overshadow what Sayers did in other aspects of the game by any means. We're talking strictly about returning kicks. I don't know why people think it's wrong to question and compare old-school players like Sayers with new-school players. People think it's taboo or something...
I'm a Lions fan, and hate the Bears naturally. But i'm in awe of Hester and how explosive he is. It just amazes me that teams actually kick to him still...
SeveredHorseHeads
Footballguy
I agree that it's pretty close but something to consider is that the missed Field Goal isn't included anywhere in these numbers. Maybe it shouldn't count as much as a Kickoff or Punt, but it should still count as something.
Tau837
Footballguy
I think Sayers is a better kickoff returner. His career average is 30.6 yards per kickoff return. Compare that to Hester's (regular season) average of 25.1. Big difference, especially considering that Sayers returned almost twice as many kickoffs (so far). Sure, as Doug posted above, Hester's TD percentage is a bit higher as of right now... I suspect that will drop, though.
I think they are close at punt returns... Sayers' career average was 14.5, compared to Hester's 14.7 (regular season), and Sayers' TD percentage is higher. That said, Hester has almost 3 times as many punt returns so far, so I think his performance carries more weight.
I think they are close at punt returns... Sayers' career average was 14.5, compared to Hester's 14.7 (regular season), and Sayers' TD percentage is higher. That said, Hester has almost 3 times as many punt returns so far, so I think his performance carries more weight.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Maybe he's just above average but the Bears punt return blocking unit is the GOAT.
Did I really say that?
Headin' for beddin'...
Did I really say that?
Headin' for beddin'...
This thread forced me to do a little bit more analysis and make a blog post out of it. Read all about it here if you're interested.
Tau837
Footballguy
Would love to see you add more than just TDs and make an assessment of GOAT. And perhaps separate kickoff returns and punt returns.
Wow! Fantastic blog post. Thanks. This has turned into exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Looking at your data I think it definitely supports the assertion that Hester can at least be considered ONE of the greatest ever. His will be an interesting career to follow.Doug Drinen said:
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
The all-time intentional walk leader.At 51 I may be equally unqualified but, I can't think of anyone like him. Now if he would score 6 times in one game...
Sayer's numbers are a little deceptive because after he blew his knee out the first time he was never the same, but regardless Hester still got there faster.
The awesome thing about Sayers is that if you can imagine if Hester and Peterson were combined into one man for that Viking-Bears game- that is exactly how completely Sayers dominated the game at his best. In his prime Gale Sayers was for my money the most dangerous player to ever play the game.
The awesome thing about Sayers is that if you can imagine if Hester and Peterson were combined into one man for that Viking-Bears game- that is exactly how completely Sayers dominated the game at his best. In his prime Gale Sayers was for my money the most dangerous player to ever play the game.
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PsychoMan
Footballguy
it sucks watching the Bears fall apart this year, but the games are worth watching for Hester alone. such an amazing talent.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
How much is Hester and how much is the rest of the special teams in everyone's opinion? I'm not hating on Hester, but it seems like nobody is giving credit to the other 10 guys on the field here.
I think this is where the eyeball test comes in handy. I've only seen grainy footage of Sayers so I can't really comment on him but most of these other guys I've had a chance to see. To me Hester is the best. Hester definitely has a good supporting cast but some of the moves he makes cause me to question laws of physics. He also has the ability to break away from just about anyone. I've seen players take angles that they thought were good and come up short. The one thing that makes me question his position in the rankings of GOAT is his tendency to muff kicks and/or fumble. In the second half of last year he had some problems with holding on to the ball.
boom king
Footballguy
well the bears havent been too fortunate in the quarterback posistion over the years.
Zow
Footballguy
All I know is that when he beat the Vikings this past weekend there were five white shirts in more than apt coverage down there unblocked... and he somehow, I can't explain how, got by them. We were in textbook punt coverage and still got burned. That's when I realized how good the guy is.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
... except there were 6 (not five) white shirts perfectly surrounding him.Watch this video ... and pause it at 26 seconds. You see 6 vikings closing in on Hester quite nicely. By the 28 second mark, they're all left in the dust.
