Yeah, that pretty much stopped the AJ is a genius babble.The AJ Smith is a genius bit is laughable. I Wonder how many Charger fans have stopped to ponder that 4 point week 1 loss to Dallas, and what a victory would have done for their playoff destiny. Boy, that 2 rec. for -4 yds stat line for Justin Peele, just to prove a point to Gates and his agent sure was worth it.
Even mentioning AJ Smith and genius in the same sentence =
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- Thread starter ThisGuy
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
AJ Smith is doing a great job.If he didn't pull that stunt, Gates might have sat out even more games.
Unless making the pro bowl isn't all that matters....
Making the pro bowl doesn't mean squat unless it is used to compare players to each other, as my post was doing.
Giants > Chargers this season.
Merriman > Eli this season.
Eli was as bad as he was good this season. Merriman was a pro bowl LB in his rookie season.
The thread is about the Chargers missing the playoffs and how having kept Eli would have somehow changed that outcome.
Thanks for reading.
Making the pro bowl doesn't mean squat unless it is used to compare players to each other, as my post was doing.
Giants > Chargers this season.
Merriman > Eli this season.
Eli was as bad as he was good this season. Merriman was a pro bowl LB in his rookie season.
The thread is about the Chargers missing the playoffs and how having kept Eli would have somehow changed that outcome.
Thanks for reading.
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
If AJ hadn't suspended Gates in a ####### hardball move then 95% chance that Dalls loss week 1 doesn't doom their playoff hopes this year. Or could've signed Merriman in TC and had his help for the first four games. He'd be a lock for DROY for sure then. AJ got the better hand when he traded Rivers/Manning but he's misplayed his cards since then. Still I think the Chargers came out ahead in the deal (just like the Vick trade) even before Rivers is traded. That'll be even more of a bonus. But even with those two favorable trades they STILL have way more to go before they make up for trading up to select Cryin Ryan.
Both sentences contain factual errors. The Chargers didn't suspend Gates, and more obviously, Merriman signed as soon as training camp started.
BloodyPigSkin
Footballguy
Ah yes, the good ole uninformed Giants fans I remember from the old days...
Newsflash...Merriman is in the Pro Bowl THIS YEAR...his ROOKIE YEARBloodyPigSkin
Footballguy
They just posted during the Denver/SanDiego game the toughest schedules this year based on opponent winning percentage. Who was #1? San Diego
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Plenty more errors than just that. The move to draft Olivea in the 7th round didn't exactly suck. Michael Turner seemed like a bad move when they drafted him and Chatman was looking good but in hindsight Turner was an absolute steal in the 5th regardless of neeed.
I think almost everyone would agree it was a wise move to stand firm and refuse to give Rivers and his agent "#1 pick $" which also occured after that trade.
Both Merriman and Castillo seem like pretty good values to me in this years draft at picks #12 and #28.
I think the Jhue has worked out better for SD than most people would have hoped for. My opinion may be in the minority but I think he's been the lone bright spot in the SD defensive backfield this season.
Perhaps most importantly the salary cap space they enjoy now due to the combined effect of not giving Rivers/Merriman/Gates more $ than they deserved.
Those are just off the top of my head good moves AJ has made in less than two years since he made the Rivers trade. There are probably more I'm forgetting. He made other good moves before the trade as well. My two favorite are cutting the Chargers losses on Boston and keeping Marty when after two years everyone was convinced "the game has passed Marty by".
mad sweeney
Footballguy
The first one is semantics. What was the exact terminolgy for it? Ineligible for the 3 games (2 preseason and Dallas)? Same deal, he was not in the game as a punitive measure for hardball contract negotiations. And AJ's hard headedness was a major factor.The second, I was under the impression he had trouble signing and his TC experience didn't start on time and therefore he didn't start playing serious time until week 4 or so.
I know accuracy counts, but the effect remains the same on the statements.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I wasn't talking about any draft moves, nor saying AJ has done nothing but bad. But those 2 personnel issues directly led to losses early in the season because key players were not in the game.
No, that's wrong. There was nothing punitive about it. The Chargers wanted him to play.
I think he held out for two days. It wasn't a factor.
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
He was suspended for not signing the restircted FA tender ($300K for 1 year) and not showing up for TC in time. He was not under contract and deserved FAR more than the 1 year tender offered. It was a contract negotiation ultimatum, "Show up here and now or sit for 3 games". If he were under contract it would be different but he wasn't. And early in the season, specifically in the first 2 losses there was plenty of talk about MErriman not being on the field because he wasn't ready. He mised all the pre-TC voluntary work and was late to TC. He didn't play much if at all for the first 4 games.
I understand what you're saying about saving money and I know it's a huge chunk of the way teams are run, but particularly the Gates Maneuver was a silly way to force a guy to sign a bad deal and in turn lose a game for it. And it turned out to be a costly game, as I have to think the Chargers at home would beat the starter-resting Broncos if they were still in the thick of it. And that 1 game would be the difference going into week 17. Certainly not the only thing that led to the Charger's demise, but it was highly preventable.
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shakeybarn
Footballguy
Good point... the Giants are having a great year, and I can honestly say it's not much because of Eli. Had some good games, but can recall him barfing a few games. Tiki is in... I'll say that.Plaxico... there's another that hasn't meant much. Give credit to the NYG defense... they are getting missed in the equation .. just as the Atlanta D seems to year in year out.Edited to give credit where credit is due...Tiki's In.
You're Out.
No he wasn't.
And he showed up the day afterward. Was that AJ's fault?It wasn't a suspension or an ultimatum. Gates was placed on the roster-exempt list so the Chargers wouldn't have to cut anybody to make room for Gates on the roster. By league rule, a consequence of placing him on the list is that if he doesn't report to camp by a certain date, he has to miss three games.It's not a suspension, and it's not punitive.
Why don't you look stuff up on the Internet before making claims?He wasn't ready because he was injured.He did not hold out from training camp (more than a day or two).
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Everything I wrote was accurate. The fact that a couple sloppy reporters incorrectly used the term "suspended" doesn't make it a suspension.Nice.
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shakeybarn
Footballguy
Have to admit the Chargers clearly had the toughest NFL schedule I've seen in years. But losing to Miami at home, didn't make sense... facing 3 of the Conference Championship teams.. and the 5 teams they faced post-bye week is amazing... they held in there, and then lost when they shouldn't have. They'll be back.. rubbing in Eli is just sophomoric at best. Especially given how mediocre Eli is...
Why should I get back in the closet? I have a Denver victory to celebrate. Against San Diego. You know, our divisional rivals?I think you're the one who needs to get back in the closet. Your name says "Jets", but your posts lead me to believe that you're Tom Coughlin's OTHER son-in-law- the one who DIDN'T make the team.
20th rated passer in the NFL vs. pro bowl OLB...Yeah, it sure looks like the Giants have the advantage there. Yessirree.Phillip Rivers = career backup QB. Maybe the Chargers should hold onto him for another year so his trade value will completely vanish.
Kaeding is a kicker. A kicker. Who choked away a pretty important game vs the Jets last year in the playoffs.
Roman Oben = career journeyman OG who can easily be replaced (See Jason Whittle.)
Merriman will be an all-pro LB in a few years.
Manning vs Merriman is basically what this trade will come down to.
Advantage - Giants.
Yeah, Drew Brees was so proven that his team took a QB with a top-4 pick to replace him.And Gates the greatest TE to ever play the game? I some people named Newsome, Winslow, Sharpe, and Gonzalez who might take exception to that claim. And the second greatest LB ever? Who's that? Donnie Edwards is the best I can guess. He's not even the 2nd greatest LB in the NFL this season (or last season, for that matter).But Rookie QB's aren't supposed to lead their teams to the playoffs.
All-World RB's with better and proven QB's in Brees, and the greatest TE to ever play the game, are supposed to be in the playoffs. ESPECIALLY, when they have the 2nd greatest LB evah and an old proven coach.
Seriously, this is sheer nonsense you two keep posting. Absolute, unadulturated nonsense. A team with more wins in a tougher division against a harder schedule regrets trading a guy who is a bottom 50% QB for a guy who is a pro bowl LB. Genius.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
These two quotes contradict each other don't they?The first says it's unclear if the Chargers will "place him on the Roster Exempt list" if Gates shows up Sunday. The second says the Chargers were "FORCED" by a rule in the NFL's collective bargaining agreement to place Gates on the Roster Exempt List since he did not report by Saturday. It's kind of hard to make a decision based on what happens Sunday if the deadline is Saturday I would think.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
What a load of bunk post.Which team was in the playoffs last year - and which team will probably be able to command a first round pick if they decide to trade one of their draft picks?How old are the defensive and offensive team leaders Michael Strahan and Tiki Barber?
Firstly, Happy New Year.Everything I wrote was accurate. The fact that a couple sloppy reporters incorrectly used the term "suspended" doesn't make it a suspension.Nice.
Secondly, c'mon. A rose by any other name, etc. etc.A search on 'Antonio Gates' in the news section of this very site will produce such 'sloppy' headlines as 'TE Gates Gets Ultimatum', 'TE Gates Suspended For Three Games' and 'TE Gates Signs Tender, Suspension To Stick'. Shockingly, a Google search produces hundreds, if not thousands of similar 'sloppy' articles.
FairWarning
Footballguy
As bad as the Miami loss was at the time, the fish haven't lost in a month.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Clearly? I think not. Every team in the NFC East and AFC West had a difficult schedule.
The Chargers had 11 games against teams above .500. They were 5-6 in those games.
The Broncos had 10 games against teams above .500. They were 7-3 in those games.
The Redskins also had 10 games against teams above .500. They were 5-5 in those games.
After today, the Chiefs will have had 10 games against teams above .500. So far, they are 5-4 in those games.
The Raiders had 11 games against teams above .500. They were 2-9 in those games.
The Cowboys had 9 games against teams above .500. They are 4-5 in those games.
The Giants had 9 games against teams above .500. They are 4-5 in those games.
The Eagles had 9 games against teams above .500. They are 2-7 in those games.
Perhaps if the Chargers had faired better than 5-6 in those games vs. good teams they might be in the playoffs, but they did not.
I do not get this logic. If I understand the way the NFL makes its schedule, each team in a division has the same schedule short 2 games (four if you concisder a team doesnt play itself). So Den had the same schedule as SD and went 13-3. Hate to see wht Den does with a normal schedule???For those who want to know the games that differ-
Den - Jac and Balt (Den went 2-0)
SD - Ind and Pitt (SD wnet 1-1)
These 2 games the only difference between a 13-3 record over a 9-7???
For the record I dont like both teams, I just miss this logic.
dcgangstas
Footballguy
I know. Moss and Bell really came through for you.oh, and good luck this weekend good buddy - you're gonna need it to catch me.
Also, Denver and San Diego played each other twice.PIT, IND, DEN, DEN is a substantially harder lineup of opponents for four games than JAC, BAL, SD, SD.So yes, the Chargers had a substantially tougher schedule than the Broncos.
Why would you even ask that? Nothing in dcgangstas' post implied it.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
No, they did not. How many times do we have to say it?! You also have to factor in that Denver has four wins more than San Diego, so that means more of their opponents were given losses by them, thereby, somewhat weaking the overall record of their opponents.
You Chargers' fans can keep touting your non-playoff team 9-7 team if you like, but Broncos' fans know our team had just as tough a schedule and did much better against it. Thank you. Good night.
Ghost Rider, you're saying JAC, BAL, and SD are as good as IND, PIT, and DEN?That's what you are saying if you think the Chargers didn't have a tougher schedule than the Broncos.And who's touting a 9-7 team? Both you and wdh76 are reading stuff into the posts you're replying to that simply isn't there.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Okay, how is this...I will concede that SD had a slightly tougher schedule if you concede the same. These comments like "SD clearly had the toughest schedule in years" and "SD's schedule was substantially harder than anyone else's" are gross overstatements. I have already shown that SD only played one more game over .500 than several other teams, including Denver.
When it all comes down to it, Denver, at 13-3, was the 2nd best team in the AFC this season, while San Diego, at 9-7 and tied with Miami whom they lost to, was the 9th best team.
When it all comes down to it, Denver, at 13-3, was the 2nd best team in the AFC this season, while San Diego, at 9-7 and tied with Miami whom they lost to, was the 9th best team.
I think it was more than slightly even without considering the four games against opponents coming off a bye. DEN, IND, and PIT may be the three toughest teams in the NFL this year. The Chargers had four games against them, the Broncos had none.
I disagree with that as well. I actually think Denver was the best team in the AFC this year, although it's very close between them and Indy.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Um, how are the Broncos supposed to play themselves? I think when comparing the strength of schedule of two particular teams, games against each other should be left out, because naturally the lesser team will get their strength of schedule record padded since they played the team with the better record while the better team played the team with the lesser record.
As a Broncos' fan, that argument can certainly be made. Indy had some tough games in the second half of the season, but they had a very easy first half schedule, for the most part. Considering Denver had a much tougher schedule and only finished a game behind them in the standings, are the Colts really any better than the Broncos?
Who says they're supposed to play themselves? The Broncos weren't supposed to play the Broncos, just like the Browns weren't supposed to play the Broncos. That's part of the reason the Chargers' schedule was more difficult than the Browns', too.The Chargers had a tough schedule. One of the reasons it was tough was because they had to play the Broncos twice.
Not so sure about that. A QBs value is much higher than any other position, so even a decent QB may be better than an all pro at another position.Merriman is starting in the pro bowl this year. Eli didn't make it.If it is essentially Eli vs. Merriman as you say, then it is advantage ChargersMerriman will be an all-pro LB in a few years.
Manning vs Merriman is basically what this trade will come down to.
Advantage - Giants.
If we were just comparing the Chargers and the Broncos, fine, but what kicked this discussion off was dcganstas' statement that "The Chargers will be fine. They just had a brutal schedule this year."For some reason, the Broncos fans took that personally and made it about the Broncos.
Capella
Footballguy
GB gunZ and his constant stream of wrong predictions/sayings.Perhaps we should wait until the Bucs clinch a playoff berth before handing them a home game.TIAso both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.
also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
GB gunZ and his constant stream of wrong predictions/sayings.Perhaps we should wait until the Bucs clinch a playoff berth before handing them a home game.TIAso both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.
also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?
Cappy,You watching YOUR team HOST a first round PLAYOFF game next week, too?
Capella
Footballguy
GB gunZ and his constant stream of wrong predictions/sayings.Perhaps we should wait until the Bucs clinch a playoff berth before handing them a home game.TIAso both teams that are likely to host first-round games are going to lose?again, care to wager on that? or are you just going to run your mouth (again) without backing it up?Nope. Just the Bucs and Gints.In Tommy's world, every NFC team is going to lose in the playoffs this year.
also, how are the Chargers going to do in the playoffs this year?
You watching YOUR team HOST a first round PLAYOFF game next week, too?
I'll be there.Attending any playoff games this year Tommy?BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think DEN made the playoffs and won the division because they were a better team this year. I'm not sure who you are arguing that point with since I haven't seen any posts in this thread claiming that SD is better than DEN but I hope the revelation makes you feel better.Do you honestly believe playing (IND & PIT) or (JAX & BAL) are the "same situation"????? So in your mind (IND & PIT) = (JAX & BAL)????????? I'd sincerely like to hear how you came to that conclusion. Please answer this post, it's not a rhetorical question.
Bolded the important part. When last I checked, Denver, Kansas City, and Indy were the only AFC teams with a better than .500 record against better than .500 squads. A lot of noise has been made about how the Chargers are the best team to ever miss the playoffs... but they aren't even the best team in their division to miss the playoffs THIS SEASON. I think the Chiefs have been seriously disrespected in all of this fawning Charger-love. I also think the Chiefs might be one of the best teams to ever miss the playoffs. I know I'm a lot happier that THEY'RE out of the playoffs than I am that the Chargers are- and judging from their record against quality clubs, the rest of the AFC bracket should be, as well.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Meh, neither deserved to go to the playoffs. Neither is a bonafide contender in that they can't play well four week in a row anyway. SD scored more points and gave up less points than KC this year despite having a slightly tougher schedule.Really, I think Carl Peterson is right and there should be one more team let in per conference so KC would get that. Either way KC or SD would get bumped out before the AFC championship game.
If I was a fan of any of the AFC playoff teams I might be most glad to avoid MIA right now. They are playing very well on the road and unlike KC have proven they can win four games in a row at least.
