High School Program Cancels Season bc of Bullying... (1 Viewer)

[General Malaise]

Sounds like someone has displaced anger from Sandusky. I would be pissed as well if all someone remembered when I said graduated from Penn was ok that is the child molester school. Understandable.

Sure, I'm mad. I get mad when people make these generalizations that somehow the majority of the alumni are OK with this type of behavior. I get mad when people then make jokes about it...yet claim PSU alum are the ones who have the problem. I don't think any PSU alum on this board have resorted to making jokes about this...but we're the ones who (directly or indirectly) are OK with what happened. I get mad when I am denied entrance to a bar simply because I'm wearing a PSU shirt. It's basically prejudice. -I- didn't do any of that, and -I- am an alum, therefor I take offense to statements that blanket. The vast majority of the PSU folks I went to school with care more about and for the welfare of kids than any other group I've ever been involved with. See THON and other philanthropic efforts. It's sad that this just gets generalized away.

Wait, you get kicked out of bars for wearing PSU shirts? That's pretty dumb.

Not kicked out, but denied entrance. We were in Dallas for their last bowl game in 2012, the TicketCity Bowl. Tried to go into a bar, and the bouncer said, "No Penn State people. We don't support child molestation." Offered to take our team gear off, still wouldn't let us in.

Bouncers are pretty stupid.

 

[dparker713]

Sounds like someone has displaced anger from Sandusky. I would be pissed as well if all someone remembered when I said graduated from Penn was ok that is the child molester school. Understandable.

Sure, I'm mad. I get mad when people make these generalizations that somehow the majority of the alumni are OK with this type of behavior. I get mad when people then make jokes about it...yet claim PSU alum are the ones who have the problem. I don't think any PSU alum on this board have resorted to making jokes about this...but we're the ones who (directly or indirectly) are OK with what happened. I get mad when I am denied entrance to a bar simply because I'm wearing a PSU shirt. It's basically prejudice. -I- didn't do any of that, and -I- am an alum, therefor I take offense to statements that blanket. The vast majority of the PSU folks I went to school with care more about and for the welfare of kids than any other group I've ever been involved with. See THON and other philanthropic efforts. It's sad that this just gets generalized away.

Penn St will stop being associated with child molestation in about the same timeframe that Kent St will no longer be associated with shot protesters.

Just because the NCAA lifted the sanctions because no one we know of has been molested by the football program for a few years doesn't mean the reputation of the school is going to improve anytime soon.

And really, the more direct parallel is not the actions of the offenders, its the tone deaf actions of the community attempting to save a football program.

 

[dparker713]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

 

[Parrothead]

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2014/10/penn_state_parts_ways_with_tro.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

[belljr]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?eta: i have the same opinion if this was the soccer , golf or whatever team

 

[roadkill1292]

I would like Sayreville to drop its football program.

 

[dparker713]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

 

[NCCommish]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

And I would hope we share the same angst about cancelled arts programs and music programs and all the other things we cut to save a few cents per thousand on property taxes.

 

[Fat Nick]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

Nothing. Nothing is unique or important about football...nor is it unique in the sense that it's the only sport or activity that can bring about these types of horrible acts.

That's both an arguement for and against getting rid of football. So you get rid of it. As belljr said, you're punishing future generations from playing football. Why? Because you don't want more of this to happen. So what happens? Kids play baseball instead. Then what? Somebody fingers a bum in the baseball locker room. Ban that too? Why? Clearly the lesson wasn't learned during football season.

I get the urge to ban, but it doesn't punish the people who committed the act. It's like carpet bombing a city because it's got a few terrorists living in it. You destroy the city and tons of civilians who had no issue, but the underlying cause (f-ed up people...) just move on without learning anything. Punish the offenders. Punish them HARD. Punish those who did it. Punish those who knew and did nothing. Don't blanket punish everyone.

 

[NCCommish]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

Nothing. Nothing is unique or important about football...nor is it unique in the sense that it's the only sport or activity that can bring about these types of horrible acts.

That's both an arguement for and against getting rid of football. So you get rid of it. As belljr said, you're punishing future generations from playing football. Why? Because you don't want more of this to happen. So what happens? Kids play baseball instead. Then what? Somebody fingers a bum in the baseball locker room. Ban that too? Why? Clearly the lesson wasn't learned during football season.

I get the urge to ban, but it doesn't punish the people who committed the act. It's like carpet bombing a city because it's got a few terrorists living in it. You destroy the city and tons of civilians who had no issue, but the underlying cause (f-ed up people...) just move on without learning anything. Punish the offenders. Punish them HARD. Punish those who did it. Punish those who knew and did nothing. Don't blanket punish everyone.

It seems a lot of people "knew" and did squat. There is no way that crap happened and every coach didn't know. So you have to clean out the program from the AD down. And every player that took part should be charged. This takes time. Until you have all the rotten apples out of the barrel you can't really go forward. So I don't know about forever but I think this year was certainly the right choice. And it should only be back if and when they clean it up not on moment before.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Especially considering the victims and other freshmen who were prob walking around in fear will be varsity players in the next year or two... Why should they be punished?

 

[belljr]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

if you saw my edit I said any sport.if this happened in band I don't think it should be disbanded in the future either. Not sure why you are focusing on football

 

[Fat Nick]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Especially considering the victims and other freshmen who were prob walking around in fear will be varsity players in the next year or two... Why should they be punished?

It'd be really interesting to see if the seniors who did this also had this done to them when they were Freshmen. Doesn't make any of it right, but it would help explain how they could've possibly seen it as more OK. Kind of an "It's just what we do" thing. Kind of like how there's a strong correlation between molesters and those who have been molested.

 

[Zow]

Sayresville message board, talking about this: http://www.nj.com/forums/sayreville/

Here's another thought for all you armchair lawyers out there. If the "victim" knew that this type of hazing was part of joining the football team, and yet he went ahead and joined, could that be construed as implied consent? If there were five freshmen on the team and the other four went through this and he knew he was next, and yet he went into the locker room anyway, could that be construed as implied consent? OK. Have a ball reacting to that.

Young people have been doing stupid things for all time. These boys aren't criminals. They didn't attack strangers. They probably continued a hazing ritual that existed before they were part of it.

When I was in high school, more than a few times, I beat the crap out of another guy just because I wanted to be tough. It was a pretty common thing to happen in every school. It wasn't right, but it happened. The definition of criminal assault causing bodily harm, would fit. Would it be different if I beat up a girl? Of course. Was I charged with a serious crime and labeled for life as a psychopathic criminal? Of course not. I see a parallel. I'm not saying it's the same! But there are parallels. When I pledged a fraternity, all the brothers had wooden paddles. They used them with a vengeance. We put up with it because we wanted to be accepted by the rest of the fraternity brothers. I see a parallel. Again, not the same... but I see a parallel. I was in the Marine Corps.... officer school.... we "candidates" submitted to some things that can only be described as torture.... because we wanted to make the grade. We wanted to show that we could take it. That's how it is in Marine Officer School. I don't think anyone had to go to a psychiatrist as a result. I see a parallel

I suspect, that because of the public outrage and outcry from people like those here, the prosecutors office was forced into making these charges. Hopefully a judge will see it differently.

I'm just having trouble saying that any orifice is a sex organ. Or, to put it another way, any orifice penetrated by a finger is sex (I used the example of a finger in the mouth). I'm sorry if this is getting too graphic but, if that's the case, and you want to call it rape, that means that forcefully inserting a penis into an ###### is the same..... and I don't really think it is.... especially if the act in the locker room was done for the entertainment of the team members and not for sexual reasons.

These people might not be the brightest.

Love the moron with the implied consent comment, sounds like a good time at parties.

Frankly, for a small town newspaper comments section, these people are rocket scientists compared to the average opinion provider on articles detailing crimes in a small town.

 

[NCCommish]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Especially considering the victims and other freshmen who were prob walking around in fear will be varsity players in the next year or two... Why should they be punished?

It'd be really interesting to see if the seniors who did this also had this done to them when they were Freshmen. Doesn't make any of it right, but it would help explain how they could've possibly seen it as more OK. Kind of an "It's just what we do" thing. Kind of like how there's a strong correlation between molesters and those who have been molested.

You have to think it's been building. You hopefully don't start out with sexual assault. It probably started as relatively innocent stuff. Putting a kid in a locker, taping him to a pole, etc. But someone thinks been there done that now what? And then escalation starts and for some reason no one calls them on it. Adults see it, they have to. It is being done right under their noses. And each step takes them further down the road to a situation like this. So I would guess that yes the perps were victims of something themselves.

 

[dparker713]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

Nothing. Nothing is unique or important about football...nor is it unique in the sense that it's the only sport or activity that can bring about these types of horrible acts.

That's both an arguement for and against getting rid of football. So you get rid of it. As belljr said, you're punishing future generations from playing football. Why? Because you don't want more of this to happen. So what happens? Kids play baseball instead. Then what? Somebody fingers a bum in the baseball locker room. Ban that too? Why? Clearly the lesson wasn't learned during football season.

I get the urge to ban, but it doesn't punish the people who committed the act. It's like carpet bombing a city because it's got a few terrorists living in it. You destroy the city and tons of civilians who had no issue, but the underlying cause (f-ed up people...) just move on without learning anything. Punish the offenders. Punish them HARD. Punish those who did it. Punish those who knew and did nothing. Don't blanket punish everyone.

You've just stated there is nothing unique or important about football, so how exactly are you punishing anyone by removing the program?

 

[dparker713]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Why? What's so important about football that it should be protected? This is a school first, right? Children can certainly learn from sports, but the more important lessons are in the classroom.

so future generations should be denied playing football because of these idiots?

What precisely is so unique or important about football that it needs to be reinstated? What can't children get from other activities?

if you saw my edit I said any sport.if this happened in band I don't think it should be disbanded in the future either. Not sure why you are focusing on football

These are extra-curricular activities. When ever they're more trouble than they're worth why not stop them? Hell, maybe spend the funds on curricular activities.

 

[NCCommish]

I want to be clear I am not on the cancel the sport forever wagon. But it needs to be closed down until it's cleaned up and by that I mean every adult involved is no longer involved and punished if appropriate and the kids that did it are punished appropriately. Sports are important. They build things in boys and girls that many will get nowhere else. So I am not anti-sport. I am anti this kind of crap being tolerated for even a minute.

 

[fatness]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Especially considering the victims and other freshmen who were prob walking around in fear will be varsity players in the next year or two... Why should they be punished?

"Why should the high school football players be victimized?" is an argument from adults who don't want to give up watching high school football.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Does anyone really believe football should be dropped permanently. ..that seems to be an overreaction

Especially considering the victims and other freshmen who were prob walking around in fear will be varsity players in the next year or two... Why should they be punished?

"Why should the high school football players be victimized?" is an argument from adults who don't want to give up watching high school football.

Or parents who have kids that enjoy football and have zero to do with this

 

[tom22406]

And another school does the same

C.B. West football season canceled amid hazing allegations



Kathy Boccella, Chris Palmer, and Ben Finley, Inquirer Staff Writers Published Friday, October 24, 2014, 1:08 AM




Central Bucks West High School. In a letter to parents, Superintendent David Weitzel said most of the players took part in actions that he described as "offensive and disrespectful."
The Central Bucks School District on Thursday canceled the rest of the football season at Central Bucks West High School after it said it learned that players had subjected rookies to "humiliating" hazing in a preseason initiation.

In a letter to parents, Superintendent David Weitzel said an investigation determined that new players on the Doylestown-based team had been required to grab the private parts of other players, while fully clothed in front of the rest of the team. He said most of the players took part in the activity, which he called "offensive and disrespectful."

The superintendent also faulted players who he said did not participate but witnessed the activities, and a coaching staff he said failed to supervise the teens. "Swift and firm action is absolutely necessary," Weitzel said.

James Donnelly, chief of the Central Bucks Regional Police Department, said his office had launched an investigation.

School officials notified police only Wednesday about the hazing claims, Donnelly said. The allegations included rumors of what students described as "waterboarding," but what Donnelly said sounded more liked teens being placed under showers with towels over their heads.

He said he was concerned about the allegations in the superintendent's letter.

"The letter was pretty damning and contains some pretty scary information," Donnelly said. "We don't know if it was just kids horsing around or if it was more serious, but we're going to investigate."

Bucks County District Attorney David Heckler said in an interview that his office had been in contact with Donnelly about the allegations, and that county investigators "will certainly provide assistance" if Donnelly requested it.

The claims emerged just a few days after a Sayreville, N.J., high school also shut down its football program and suspended the coach and his assistants over claims of player hazing. That case has led to the arrest of seven players.

The Central Bucks West team, nicknamed the Bucks, had a 2-6 record this season, a down year for a storied program. Head coach Brian Hensel did not respond to a phone call and e-mail seeking comment. Hensel, a chemistry teacher at the high school, is in his sixth season leading the team.

The team had just two more games on its schedule, but one was a Homecoming game Friday night against rival Central Bucks East.

"We're sick about it up here," said Brian O'Connell, whose son was a Bucks offensive lineman last year. "It's meant the world to a lot of kids, my son included."

O'Connell said he knew about preseason rituals, but never saw evidence of extreme hazing. "They had a tradition of cutting hair, like a Marine and pretty badly done, and that was OK," he said.

The Central Bucks district, which has nearly 20,000 students, cuts a huge swath across the county and includes three high schools, five middle schools, and 15 elementary schools. It has been one of the state's top performers in academics and athletics.

Weitzel promised that more details would be released at a school board meeting next week. His letter said the allegations came to light Oct. 14.

Three days later, school principal Jason Bucher sent an e-mail to West football parents saying the school had reviewed allegations of player mistreatment and found there had been no "intentional mistreatment," according to a copy obtained by The Inquirer.

The superintendent's letter suggested otherwise. In it, he called the hazing "humiliating," "inappropriate," and "personally invasive," specifically citing the crotch-grabbing.

"I want to be clear that these activities did not result in physical harm, but were not harmless," the superintendent said. He apologized to any football player subjected to "demeaning actions of fellow players who should have served as role models."

School Board President Paul Faulkner declined to comment but said he would have more information soon, possibly on Friday.

As news of the decision spread Thursday afternoon and reporters swarmed around the school, police guarded the perimeter of the campus. At 5:30 p.m., as the freshman football team finished practice in a field across from the school, police and TV crews flanked the players as they jogged back to their lockers.

Nicole Boyer, mother of a senior lineman, was upset by the decision. She said only students directly involved in the hazing should be disciplined. "The people who were not involved are being punished for things they didn't do," Boyer said.

The superintendent didn't agree.

"Players who did not directly participate, but witnessed and failed to report the activities, also violated the Code of Conduct," his letter said. Now, Weitzel said, said the school will be "re-instructing" players and coaches on every team about the code.

"There will be no exceptions when it comes to compliance," he said. "Appropriate team-building activities cannot be permitted to spiral out of control and become hazing. As educators, we must do what is right for all of our students, who deserve to be treated with dignity and with respect."

The news stirred mixed responses across social media.

"To all west football players," senior lineman Brian Miller wrote in a tweet, "we need to stick together through the undoubtable worst days of our lives. I love you all like family."

On Facebook, parent Deana DePaul Herbert wrote: "It's a shame but glad the district took this seriously. You know it is serious when football is stopped. Seems like the biggest thing in all high schools is football!"

Quakertown Superintendent William Harner, whose high school team beat West two weeks ago, called the situation tragic for the hazing victims and the school.

"It's a lose-lose situation all the way around," he said.

Harner said he faced a hazing problem when he was a high school principal in South Carolina. He said coaches often are aware of the hazing but believe it creates bonds. "Parents send their kids to school, and they expect the administration, the faculty, the coaches all will do the right thing for their children," he said.

For years, West had one of the most successful football programs in the country. Under legendary coach Mike Pettine, who retired in 2000, the Bucks went 326-42-4, winning four PIAA Class AAAA state championships and compiling a 45-game winning streak - one that ultimately stretched to 59 games.

Many of the stars of those teams went on to coaching success, including Pettine's son Mike Jr. This season, he is in his first year as head coach of the NFL's Cleveland Browns after spending time as an assistant with the Buffalo Bills, New York Jets, and Baltimore Ravens.

Mike Carey, a star player and coach at the high school, was stunned by the news.

"I literally feel sick to my stomach right now," he said in an interview. "For something like this to happen at such a storied program, it's mind-boggling."

http://www.inquirer.com/local/20141024_CB_West_football_season_canceled_amid_hazing_allegations.html?authenticate=y

 

[NCCommish]

As well they should have. Time to get the message that this crap is no longer in any way acceptable.

 

[Jobber]

Sounds like someone has displaced anger from Sandusky. I would be pissed as well if all someone remembered when I said graduated from Penn was ok that is the child molester school. Understandable.

Sure, I'm mad. I get mad when people make these generalizations that somehow the majority of the alumni are OK with this type of behavior. I get mad when people then make jokes about it...yet claim PSU alum are the ones who have the problem. I don't think any PSU alum on this board have resorted to making jokes about this...but we're the ones who (directly or indirectly) are OK with what happened. I get mad when I am denied entrance to a bar simply because I'm wearing a PSU shirt. It's basically prejudice. -I- didn't do any of that, and -I- am an alum, therefor I take offense to statements that blanket. The vast majority of the PSU folks I went to school with care more about and for the welfare of kids than any other group I've ever been involved with. See THON and other philanthropic efforts. It's sad that this just gets generalized away.

What other groups have you been involved with?

NAMBLA

 

[fantasycurse42]

Sounds like someone has displaced anger from Sandusky. I would be pissed as well if all someone remembered when I said graduated from Penn was ok that is the child molester school. Understandable.

Sure, I'm mad. I get mad when people make these generalizations that somehow the majority of the alumni are OK with this type of behavior. I get mad when people then make jokes about it...yet claim PSU alum are the ones who have the problem. I don't think any PSU alum on this board have resorted to making jokes about this...but we're the ones who (directly or indirectly) are OK with what happened. I get mad when I am denied entrance to a bar simply because I'm wearing a PSU shirt. It's basically prejudice. -I- didn't do any of that, and -I- am an alum, therefor I take offense to statements that blanket. The vast majority of the PSU folks I went to school with care more about and for the welfare of kids than any other group I've ever been involved with. See THON and other philanthropic efforts. It's sad that this just gets generalized away.

What other groups have you been involved with?

NAMBLA

You look like Marlon Brando too?

 

[fatness]

Last week, school officials talked to the boys who were supposedly involved in the punching incident and decided it didn't happen. That led C.B. West Principal Jason Bucher to tell parents in an Oct. 17 note that no student had been mistreated.

But the more serious allegations emerged after school officials re-interviewed some of the players, the superintendent said. They also determined that most new players got hazed while coaches stood by and did nothing to stop it, he said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20141025_A_fog_of_uncertainty_after_C_B__West_football_season_canceled.html

 

[fatness]

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2014/10/weeks_after_sayreville_scandal_central_bucks_west_cancels_football_season_due_to_sexual_hazing_alleg.html

Central Bucks Regional Police Department Chief James Donnelly said the school's principal had told him that one of the initiation rites involved placing towels over players' heads and leading them into the shower. Donnelly said players referred to the practice as "waterboarding," but that he didn't view it as fitting the definition. Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over a cloth placed on a victim's face to simulate drowning.

I'm not sure quibbling about the definition is important, Chief.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Two of the kids have just been cleared of the top charges.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/high-school/teens-sayreville-hazing-case-cleared-worst-charges-article-1.2321000

Not sure what to make of it. Idk if this means they're innocent of these things, or it just couldn't be proven. Might just come down to the word of one kid against another.

Prob some bad stuff going on in this program.