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Hines Ward - 1st ballot Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

1st ballot Hall of Famer?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 9.5%

  • No, but he eventually gets in

    Votes: 37 25.0%

  • Sorry, please sit over there with Art Monk

    Votes: 97 65.5%
  • Total voters
    148
'Evilgrin 72 said:
If you really think it's irrelevant to a player's HOF candidacy to say "as an NFL GM, I'd have much rather drafted Ward than Moss", for example, then I guess we're just looking at it in two entirely different ways. I don't know that I could look at a player's entire career and say something to the effect of : "Well, I'd have much rather had Ward on my team than Moss, all things considered, but damn it, Moss did score a lot of TDs, I'm voting for him instead." The stat hounds will gape at that and think it unfathomable to vote in a guy with 85 TDs over a guy with 150, but I personally tend to look more at the player's overall value to his team than I do raw #s. I think that's the difference between being an ex-player and being a stat geek. I'm both, while I think most here are just the latter. That's all I was saying earlier in the comment that you found arrogant (perhaps it was not phrased gently.)
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I think the crux of the issue is that Ward is a throwback player that had he played on the 70s and 80s Steelers he would be a bonafide lead pipe lock for the HOF.But since he didn't, he will be compared to his peers. As I have stated all along, the battle will be Ward vs. a bunch of other receivers that may have better pure raw stats. Comparing that glut of receivers to Ward is nearly impossible, and as you said, if another player laps Ward in some statistical categories, does that make PLAYER X better than Ward? Similarly, Ward played for a defensive minded team his whole career (which directly contributed to him playing in 3 SBs). Guys like Holt and Bruce played on defensively challenged teams most of their careers (but still made it to 2 SBs). Swap Michael Irvin for Jimmy Smith and who would have made the HOF?Ward's best components are being a very good player, having longevity, playing for a winning team, going 2 out of 3 in SBs (with a SB MVP award), having solid playoff numbers, and the "intangibles" that we don't need to rehash.In terms of the raw numbers, there will be other receivers with better stats that likely won't make the HOF. There will be other receivers with more All Pro and Pro Bowl selections that won't make the HOF, so in many people's eyes that's two strikes against Ward right there.So a lot of his candidacy will fall on him playing for the Steelers (a great team in most years that he played) and the intangibles. Perhaps put another way, if Ward put up the raw numbers he did on most other teams and only had 4 Pro Bowl selections, even being a tough, hard nosed blocker and the world's best football leader and teammate would likely not get him into the HOF.I realize it is not the hall of statistics, because if it were then we would not need the Hall of Fame. The one thing we can't possibly be sure of is what the voters will opt to do in the future when there will be a lot more players with video game numbers. IIRC, many of the HOF voters are getting older and as the new vanguard of voters takes over, who knows what their tendancies will be. They may not remember the old NFL and may be clouded by the two hand touch edict that the league has for QBs and WRs. I remember the days where a guy going across the middle had to fear that he might not be able to get back in the huddle the next play. Now a guy running a route has become the defenseless receiver and defenders have no choice but to ease up or fear retribution.The fact is, we don't really know what voters will think about some of the hard to measure things that appear to make Ward a better candidate. Why would Ward get extra credit as a receiver for being a good blocker when TEs most likely will get penalized for that same skill set and not putting up the eye popping numbers that other TEs are starting to put up? Will a running back get extra credit if he were a good special teams player? I would think most players will be evaluated for performaing their primary role (ie, receivers catch the ball). Being good at other things may help them, but IMO that may not get them a ton more votes because of it.If nothing else, Ward will be an interesting player to track once he becomes HOF eligible. He certainly has an atypical football resume compared to other guys that will be seeking induction.
 
'Evilgrin 72 said:
Because a great number of people in this thread, yourself among them, I believe, have contended that Ward will not make the Hall because he is surpassed by too many of his contemporaries. I'm asserting that perhaps these contemporaries have not surpassed him at all, or if they have, by much less than mere statistics would illustrate.
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This is a fine element to the debate, but IMO who a hypothetical GM would have drafted in a hypothetical draft given perfect information that would be repeated in the hypothetical situation is not a valid way to assess this.And as far as that debate goes, I'd love to see some examples of other players like Ward that became HOFers at positions that are measurable by statistics without having great statistics for their era, but making up for that with intangibles. I have mentioned this a few times and no one has provided any such examples. Or is he the first player who deserves to make it based on intangibles?
'Evilgrin 72 said:
If you really think it's irrelevant to a player's HOF candidacy to say "as an NFL GM, I'd have much rather drafted Ward than Moss", for example, then I guess we're just looking at it in two entirely different ways.
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As stated above, the issue here IMO is that HOF votes are not cast based on hypotheticals.Furthermore, there won't necessarily be much overlap in consideration of Ward, Owens, and Moss. They may literally never be considered in the same year, particularly if Ward plays another season or two and Owens and Moss are done. If that is the case, Owens and/or Moss could get in before Ward even becomes eligible.If you really delve into the hypothetical, IMO it is not a given that any GM would have taken Ward over Moss or Owens. There would be a lot of variables. Does the GM feel like his job is secure for 15 years, or does he feel his team must produce near term results for him to keep his job? Does the GM's team have an aging veteran QB who only has a small window left? Or is the QB situation stable for the foreseeable future? What other WRs are on the team, does the team need a possession WR or a deep threat WR or both? What is the team's offense, and what WR skills are most important to it? What coaching staff is in place, and how well do the head coach, OC, position coach, etc. get along with players, how well do they handle difficult players? Does the GM think there he could put a support system in place that would make Moss or Owens easier to manage? Etc.So, yes, we are viewing this entire hypothetical situation differently, both in its potential outcome and in its relevance.
 
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I'd love to see some examples of other players like Ward that became HOFers at positions that are measurable by statistics without having great statistics for their era, but making up for that with intangibles.
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how about 2 pitt recievers from the 70s
 
'David Yudkin said:
If this was the last hurrah for Ward, he would end his career with a 0-0-0 playoff performance.
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That's sure gonna hurt his average playoff numbers. Before today, he averaged 5.2 - 69.5 - .6 per playoff game. After today, he averages 4.9 - 65.6 - .6 per playoff game.
 
He's so clutch that he's the #5 WR on the Steelers. Retire now Hines...don't dampen the legacy further. We need to see you on the field blindsiding defenders as only you do best.

 
(TheHuddle) The popular sentiment within the Pittsburgh Steelers is that WR Hines Ward will soon announce his retirement, according to an anonymous Steelers player.Analysis: ESPN's John Clayton says it could come within the next week or so. Ward would retire as the NFL's eighth all-time leading receiver with exactly 1,000 receptions. He also ranks 18th with 12,083 receiving yards and tied for 13th with 85 touchdown receptions. He has two Super Bowl rings, one Super Bowl MVP, and is Pittsburgh's all-time leader in all major receiving categories. NFL analysts also agree that Ward is one of the best run-blocking receivers of all time. Hall of Fame? It's hard to imagine Ward not getting in...
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I wondered why they kept showing him scowling on the bench during last night's game. I thought he was planning on coming back for another year or two, didn't realize those were the waning moments of his (non-Hall of Fame) NFL career.

 
'Dought Man said:
He's so clutch that he's the #5 WR on the Steelers. Retire now Hines...don't dampen the legacy further. We need to see you on the field blindsiding defenders as only you do best.
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Yes it is not like defenders ever blindside defenseless receivers. My bet is that most other WRs loved seeing Ward nail defenders.
 
'David Yudkin said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=frontpage&pollId=134328Interesting.United States = Yes, by 10% margin.New England = No.Seattle = No.Baltimore = No.Arizona = No.Denver = No.Green Bay & Minnesota = No.
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If actual HOF voters had the same ratio (54% yes, 46% no), he wouldn't make it (would fall short of the 80% required to get in).
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He gets in based on winning 36 states of the electoral college. :PI just thought drew some contrast from our 42-57 split. Especially the break down of "no" states.
 
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Did someone link to this article?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43293/hines-ward-deserves-to-make-hall-of-fame

some interesting stuff:

Only seven receivers in the Hall of Fame started their careers after the 1970 AFL-NFL merger: Michael Irvin, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Art Monk, Rice, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann. That's fewer than quarterbacks, running backs, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers and defensive backs.

and...

The struggles of Carter and Brown to get into the Hall work against Ward. He has significantly fewer catches, receiving yards and touchdowns than each of them. Ward also has been to half as many Pro Bowls. In many ways, getting into the Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and that's not what Ward wants to hear.

Ward's best shot at reaching the Hall of Fame is his entire body of work. He wasn't the best deep threat. He wasn't the receiver with the most touchdowns. But he was the most complete wide receiver of his generation. No wide receiver blocked like Ward, and he fearlessly made catches over the middle. His reputation will stand the test of time.

 
'B-Deep said:
Did someone link to this article?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43293/hines-ward-deserves-to-make-hall-of-fame

some interesting stuff:

Only seven receivers in the Hall of Fame started their careers after the 1970 AFL-NFL merger: Michael Irvin, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Art Monk, Rice, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann. That's fewer than quarterbacks, running backs, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers and defensive backs.

and...

The struggles of Carter and Brown to get into the Hall work against Ward. He has significantly fewer catches, receiving yards and touchdowns than each of them. Ward also has been to half as many Pro Bowls. In many ways, getting into the Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and that's not what Ward wants to hear.

Ward's best shot at reaching the Hall of Fame is his entire body of work. He wasn't the best deep threat. He wasn't the receiver with the most touchdowns. But he was the most complete wide receiver of his generation. No wide receiver blocked like Ward, and he fearlessly made catches over the middle. His reputation will stand the test of time.
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It kind of illustrates the points I've been making though. I think WRs are underrepresented in the HOF, especially relative to RBs and QBs, two other positions whose contributions are commonly based on statistics. I further believe that a big reason for this is that WRs are often seen by the old-guard HOF voters as primadonnas, and not "real football players." It seems to me that statistics are no more important to HOF voters than winning and being "a football player", however each voter defines that. Those latter two categories are where Ward is going to come out ahead of guys like Cris Carter, Andre Reed, and Tim Brown despite the fact that he'll lag behind them statistically.This is a fantasy football board, and as such, is primarily stats-driven, which is why you see a lower % of people here thinking he'll make it as opposed to asking the question of less stats-obsessed people. David Yudkin's excellent post above addresses the fact that as time goes on and the older voters are replaced by the "Nintendo Generation", the unwritten criteria for induction may change, and he's right. We really don't know, and it's entirely possible. Until it does, though, I'm going by what I've seen rewarded in the past. Toughness, leadership, play and demeanor emblematic of what voters perceive to be "the NFL way", being a member of a successful team/franchise, winning and a record of producing big in big games, having "signature moments", etc. THAT is what I think will get Ward in, not his #s.

I concede that if his numbers were very pedestrian in comparison, the "intangibles" alone wouldn't get it done, but if you look at his image as a player and his record of success as being equally important as his stats, and then look at his stats as the weakest portion of his case... 1,000 catches 12,000+ yards and 85 receiving TDs don't look too bad.

 
'Just Win Baby said:
That poll does not mimic the HOF selection process, obviously. It's much easier to say yes with no context of having to select him instead of Bill Parcells, Cris Carter, et al.
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Not to digress (too much) but why is Parcells not making it such a big deal? He won 2 Super Bowls (same as Hines). How is that a pass to the front of the line?
 
'Evilgrin 72 said:
'B-Deep said:
Did someone link to this article?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43293/hines-ward-deserves-to-make-hall-of-fame

some interesting stuff:

Only seven receivers in the Hall of Fame started their careers after the 1970 AFL-NFL merger: Michael Irvin, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Art Monk, Rice, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann. That's fewer than quarterbacks, running backs, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers and defensive backs.

and...

The struggles of Carter and Brown to get into the Hall work against Ward. He has significantly fewer catches, receiving yards and touchdowns than each of them. Ward also has been to half as many Pro Bowls. In many ways, getting into the Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and that's not what Ward wants to hear.

Ward's best shot at reaching the Hall of Fame is his entire body of work. He wasn't the best deep threat. He wasn't the receiver with the most touchdowns. But he was the most complete wide receiver of his generation. No wide receiver blocked like Ward, and he fearlessly made catches over the middle. His reputation will stand the test of time.
Click to expand...
It kind of illustrates the points I've been making though. I think WRs are underrepresented in the HOF, especially relative to RBs and QBs, two other positions whose contributions are commonly based on statistics. I further believe that a big reason for this is that WRs are often seen by the old-guard HOF voters as primadonnas, and not "real football players." It seems to me that statistics are no more important to HOF voters than winning and being "a football player", however each voter defines that. Those latter two categories are where Ward is going to come out ahead of guys like Cris Carter, Andre Reed, and Tim Brown despite the fact that he'll lag behind them statistically.This is a fantasy football board, and as such, is primarily stats-driven, which is why you see a lower % of people here thinking he'll make it as opposed to asking the question of less stats-obsessed people. David Yudkin's excellent post above addresses the fact that as time goes on and the older voters are replaced by the "Nintendo Generation", the unwritten criteria for induction may change, and he's right. We really don't know, and it's entirely possible. Until it does, though, I'm going by what I've seen rewarded in the past. Toughness, leadership, play and demeanor emblematic of what voters perceive to be "the NFL way", being a member of a successful team/franchise, winning and a record of producing big in big games, having "signature moments", etc. THAT is what I think will get Ward in, not his #s.

I concede that if his numbers were very pedestrian in comparison, the "intangibles" alone wouldn't get it done, but if you look at his image as a player and his record of success as being equally important as his stats, and then look at his stats as the weakest portion of his case... 1,000 catches 12,000+ yards and 85 receiving TDs don't look too bad.
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some good points, but I never felt Ward was a player you had to game plan for or was the best at his position. Too me thats just as important as stats. He was a great blocker (some may say due to cheap shots) and from all accounts a great teammate, but was he ever the most feared WR? I think he will get stuck behind the guys still waiting, then get passed over by the likes of Moss and TO (love em or hate em they are better WRs then Ward and you had to plan for them).
 
'B-Deep said:
Did someone link to this article?http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43293/hines-ward-deserves-to-make-hall-of-famesome interesting stuff:Only seven receivers in the Hall of Fame started their careers after the 1970 AFL-NFL merger: Michael Irvin, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Art Monk, Rice, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann. That's fewer than quarterbacks, running backs, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers and defensive backs. and...The struggles of Carter and Brown to get into the Hall work against Ward. He has significantly fewer catches, receiving yards and touchdowns than each of them. Ward also has been to half as many Pro Bowls. In many ways, getting into the Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and that's not what Ward wants to hear.Ward's best shot at reaching the Hall of Fame is his entire body of work. He wasn't the best deep threat. He wasn't the receiver with the most touchdowns. But he was the most complete wide receiver of his generation. No wide receiver blocked like Ward, and he fearlessly made catches over the middle. His reputation will stand the test of time.
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No. Ward's best chance at the HOF is paid admission. He's completely unworthy, even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
 
'cobalt_27 said:
'B-Deep said:
Did someone link to this article?http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43293/hines-ward-deserves-to-make-hall-of-famesome interesting stuff:Only seven receivers in the Hall of Fame started their careers after the 1970 AFL-NFL merger: Michael Irvin, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Art Monk, Rice, John Stallworth and Lynn Swann. That's fewer than quarterbacks, running backs, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers and defensive backs. and...The struggles of Carter and Brown to get into the Hall work against Ward. He has significantly fewer catches, receiving yards and touchdowns than each of them. Ward also has been to half as many Pro Bowls. In many ways, getting into the Hall of Fame is a numbers game, and that's not what Ward wants to hear.Ward's best shot at reaching the Hall of Fame is his entire body of work. He wasn't the best deep threat. He wasn't the receiver with the most touchdowns. But he was the most complete wide receiver of his generation. No wide receiver blocked like Ward, and he fearlessly made catches over the middle. His reputation will stand the test of time.
Click to expand...
No. Ward's best chance at the HOF is paid admission. He's completely unworthy, even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
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As I have outlined for over 5 years now, I wouldn't put him in my HOF, but he will probably make it into the real HOF eventually. If he doesn't make it in 15 tries, the Veteran's Committee will vote him in.
 
ESPNStatsInfo: Hines Ward to be released by Steelers; 1 of 8 players in NFL history with 1,000 catches, he & Rice only ones with multiple Super Bowls.

 
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
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Not for WRs though. You still have to be great, like Ward, to gain entry.
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Art Monk and Lynn Swann being the glaring exceptions. In the fantasy world of Ward getting into the HOF, he'd be in their company. But, he's not getting in. Not even by the veterans committee.
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Please. Swann was the most feared of receivers.Its not the Hall of STATS.Its the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
 
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
Click to expand...
Not for WRs though. You still have to be great, like Ward, to gain entry.
Click to expand...
Art Monk and Lynn Swann being the glaring exceptions. In the fantasy world of Ward getting into the HOF, he'd be in their company. But, he's not getting in. Not even by the veterans committee.
Click to expand...
Please. Swann was the most feared of receivers.
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I know Steelers fans cling to this romantic belief. In no way was he worthy of entry to the HOF because of 2 highlight reel catches.
 
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
Click to expand...
Not for WRs though. You still have to be great, like Ward, to gain entry.
Click to expand...
Art Monk and Lynn Swann being the glaring exceptions. In the fantasy world of Ward getting into the HOF, he'd be in their company. But, he's not getting in. Not even by the veterans committee.
Click to expand...
Please. Swann was the most feared of receivers.
Click to expand...
I know Steelers fans cling to this romantic belief. In no way was he worthy of entry to the HOF because of 2 highlight reel catches.
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Heh, so your saying you weren't even a viewer then. For you certainly no not of what you speak. ;)
 
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
Click to expand...
Not for WRs though. You still have to be great, like Ward, to gain entry.
Click to expand...
Art Monk and Lynn Swann being the glaring exceptions. In the fantasy world of Ward getting into the HOF, he'd be in their company. But, he's not getting in. Not even by the veterans committee.
Click to expand...
Please. Swann was the most feared of receivers.
Click to expand...
I know Steelers fans cling to this romantic belief. In no way was he worthy of entry to the HOF because of 2 highlight reel catches.
Click to expand...
Heh, so your saying you weren't even a viewer then. For you certainly no not of what you speak. ;)
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Probably true. But, I do at least know that of which I speak. ;)
 
'kupcho1 said:
'Just Win Baby said:
That poll does not mimic the HOF selection process, obviously. It's much easier to say yes with no context of having to select him instead of Bill Parcells, Cris Carter, et al.
Click to expand...
Not to digress (too much) but why is Parcells not making it such a big deal? He won 2 Super Bowls (same as Hines). How is that a pass to the front of the line?
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Well, Parcells was just an example in my post. Substitute someone else if you don't like Parcells.That said, here is why Parcells is a HOFer:In the 19 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Giants HC, the franchise had only 3 winning seasons and made one playoff appearance. Parcells was Giants HC for 8 seasons, during which the Giants had 6 winning seasons, 5 playoff appearances, and 2 Super Bowl wins.In the 4 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Patriots HC, the team was 14-50 with no playoff appearances and had 3 head coaches. Parcells was Pats HC for 4 seasons, during which they had 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances, and one Super Bowl appearance.In the 8 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Jets HC, the team was 40-88 and had zero winning seasons and one playoff appearance. Parcells was Jets HC for 3 seasons, during which they had 2 winning seasons and made it to the AFC championship game.In the 3 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Cowboys HC, the team was 5-11 in each season. Parcells was Cowboys HC for 4 seasons, during which they had 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs twice.Parcells had strong turnaround success for 4 different franchises, including two in each conference. That in addition to the two Super Bowl wins means he deserves to be in the HOF.
 
'Just Win Baby said:
'kupcho1 said:
'Just Win Baby said:
That poll does not mimic the HOF selection process, obviously. It's much easier to say yes with no context of having to select him instead of Bill Parcells, Cris Carter, et al.
Click to expand...
Not to digress (too much) but why is Parcells not making it such a big deal? He won 2 Super Bowls (same as Hines). How is that a pass to the front of the line?
Click to expand...
Well, Parcells was just an example in my post. Substitute someone else if you don't like Parcells.That said, here is why Parcells is a HOFer:In the 19 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Giants HC, the franchise had only 3 winning seasons and made one playoff appearance. Parcells was Giants HC for 8 seasons, during which the Giants had 6 winning seasons, 5 playoff appearances, and 2 Super Bowl wins.In the 4 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Patriots HC, the team was 14-50 with no playoff appearances and had 3 head coaches. Parcells was Pats HC for 4 seasons, during which they had 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances, and one Super Bowl appearance.In the 8 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Jets HC, the team was 40-88 and had zero winning seasons and one playoff appearance. Parcells was Jets HC for 3 seasons, during which they had 2 winning seasons and made it to the AFC championship game.In the 3 seasons prior to Parcells becoming Cowboys HC, the team was 5-11 in each season. Parcells was Cowboys HC for 4 seasons, during which they had 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs twice.Parcells had strong turnaround success for 4 different franchises, including two in each conference. That in addition to the two Super Bowl wins means he deserves to be in the HOF.
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Some excellent data. Pat Kirwan once wrote a great article on BP and a sports business site took it a step further:http://arodrive.com/2009/10/31/bill-parcells-the-300-million-dollar-man/He's probably the greatest coach ever in owners' minds and it can't be too much of a leap to think what he's done or did has been discussed by tons of owners over the years or for years to come. The article is about money and that's surely the main issue, but hiring assistant coaches, "buying his own groceries," dealing with brash types like LT, Owens, and Meshawn, changing the style of O or D...Parcells did alot in a short time, over and over during his career.If but one reason to vote for BP I wish it could be that he coached the best OLB ever(LT) and the most underrated OLB ever(Tippett) but one reason has to be that he made it to the playoffs with Quincy Carter as his QB. That alone should get him in.
 
I think he'll get in the HOF eventually; not sure I'd vote for him if I had a vote. It all depends on who he's up against each year.

 
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'cobalt_27 said:
even in light of the low standards and mediocrity that have prevailed at times over the years.
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Not for WRs though. You still have to be great, like Ward, to gain entry.
Click to expand...
Art Monk and Lynn Swann being the glaring exceptions. In the fantasy world of Ward getting into the HOF, he'd be in their company. But, he's not getting in. Not even by the veterans committee.
Click to expand...
Please. Swann was the most feared of receivers.
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I know Steelers fans cling to this romantic belief. In no way was he worthy of entry to the HOF because of 2 highlight reel catches.
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Once again you prove that you are clueless when it comes to real football.
 
Ward will get in for being one of the greatest all around football players of his time. It's not the best stats hall of fame, it's the Pro Football HOF. Ward brought so much more than just running great routes and catching passes.

 
They will have to rename it, "The Hall of pretty good, but never game-planned for" if he gets in as a WR.

 
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'Grid71 said:
Ward will get in for being one of the greatest all around football players of his time. It's not the best stats hall of fame, it's the Pro Football HOF. Ward brought so much more than just running great routes and catching passes.
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It's this kind of slathering on that shows a serious lack of authenticity as a football fan.
 
'cobalt_27 said:
'Grid71 said:
Ward will get in for being one of the greatest all around football players of his time. It's not the best stats hall of fame, it's the Pro Football HOF. Ward brought so much more than just running great routes and catching passes.
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It's this kind of slathering on that shows a serious lack of authenticity as a football fan.
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I really don't care if you disagree. Please explain why you feel the comment is lavish. I have no personal stake or pride in making this comment. It's expressing my opinion that Hines has earned a place in the HOF based on his all around contributions to the game.
 
people relate being good at football to being good at fantasy football too much anymore imo. ward was a great all around wr. he blocked well, ran good routes, won a super bowl mvp. he has just about if not every steeler wrs record. he will get in the hall of fame. just because he doesn't catch 20 tds a season, doesn't mean he isn't HOF worthy.

 
Any player that requires 14 pages of debate about whether he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame or not, clearly doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.

 
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