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How Badly Did Jesus Suffer? Do You, in Your Personal Life, Suffer More Than The Three Days? (2 Viewers)

shader said:
You're asking for a level of proof that you don't require for any other historical event that happened 2K+ years ago.  
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Are you arguing that we don't have evidence beyond mythical texts for events that happened 2k+ years ago?

 
MarvinTScamper said:
He hasn't spoken directly to me.   I'm not out there working miracles.   I think we both see the difference, but you want to fight about it.  I'll pass. 
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This seems like a very different standard than suffering when someone could have snapped his fingers and prevented it.  That's not fighting, just responding to what you posted.  But I understand not wanting to get into it.  Have a good one.

 
shader said:
:lmao:

I don't know when the Jerusalem Post was founded, but I bet it doesn't make it that far back.

You're asking for a level of proof that you don't require for any other historical event that happened 2K+ years ago.  

We could spend days arguing this point but it's pretty clear that your mind is made up.   It's pretty difficult to get so much wrong in one sentence, but you manage 2 whoppers.  
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Beyond the factually incorrect claims here, it is fascinating to watch people actually feel validation and solace in acknowledging a lack of supporting evidence for their beliefs.

The lack of evidence worn as armor in defiance of those who would ask for such.

 
Henry Ford said:
If you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent God, everyone here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 
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Well clearly the people that got cancer, and kids dying of horrible diseases deserved it then.  What other explanation could there be?

 
Phase of the Game said:
It's fascinating to watch those that don't believe in Jesus go into threads about Jesus/religion and mock those that do.
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Its not a thread about jesus, it's about the level of pain inflicted on a person in 3 days versus your own life.  The fact that people want to make it about religion is the off topic element here, not the reverse. 

 
Henry Ford said:
This seems like a very different standard than suffering when someone could have snapped his fingers and prevented it.  That's not fighting, just responding to what you posted.  But I understand not wanting to get into it.  Have a good one.
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yes, but you're talking philosophically.  I'm talking about actually.

 
culdeus said:
Well clearly the people that got cancer, and kids dying of horrible diseases deserved it then.  What other explanation could there be?
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This one is always the best.  If God exists and loves people, why is there anything bad ever?   

Yep, I guess you figured it out.

 
rockaction said:
The motivation behind the question is belief in something larger then one's self?

It's hard to hear music and think that mere logic and humanism explains it. That divinity plays a role in it. That is all. 
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This is a basic definition of spirituality, which I am sure can be disputed, but one does not need to believe in a deity in order to have spirituality. I grew up in a Catholic household, have separated myself from the church, am a non-believer, but I still consider myself to be pretty spiritual.  

 
culdeus said:
Its not a thread about jesus, it's about the level of pain inflicted on a person in 3 days versus your own life.  The fact that people want to make it about religion is the off topic element here, not the reverse. 
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Well it started that way, but, it only took the OP 4 or 5 posts before he gave up the guise.  

 
Henry Ford said:
Jumpin' Jehoshaphat. Infected balls due to a vasectomy gone bad?
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Yeap.  Went home after the surgery and started watching some march madness.  Next day I still had discomfort and bruising which I was told was expected.  I continued to ice my balls on a regular basis, but after two days I noticed swelling.  I called my doctor and he told me to come in first thing Monday morning.  By the time Monday morning came my balls were about 2x normal and I could barely moved.  Never noticed how connected they are to your body until then.  Doctor immediately scheduled me for surgery that afternoon to clean it up.  Took a week for things to get better, but I still have some residual pain (3 years later).  If I exert myself to hard in certain situations I can aggravate it.

 
culdeus said:
So a unloaded exercise then?  That's amazing.  I figured you'd say you were trying to cat back out a deadlift or something.
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hmmmm....I was using barbells for the exercise, but no nothing serious like that.  My neurosurgeon said my back structure was already poor (most backs have 45 degree angle on the lower spine, mine is closer to 60) and he thought I had probably herniated it before that and didn't notice before it "touched" my nerve.

 
tonydead said:
Something from nothing is much more probable, especially with recent science starting to point that direction, than a hypothesis of a deity without any evidence of any sort. 
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My position is that there are things occurring in the universe that our five sense cannot tune into, nor can anything man has created up to this point tune into either. All I have to do to demonstrate what I'm talking about is to say there are radio signals all around us that our five senses cannot tune into, and then use a tool to convert the signals into something the five sense can tune into. However, because I believe there are things going on that we don't have tools to convert them into something the five sense can tune into, I can't demonstrate that part of my position. Since I can't demonstrate it, it's not logical, but don't try to tell me it's not probable.  

 
zoonation said:
Um, stop inundating us with all this reasoned "scholarship".  Jesus was God's son. Born of a virgin.  Resurrected and hung out for a while before taking the bullet train back up to heaven.
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Oops sorry. The more I studied the faith, the less believable it became. I forgot so many just accept it without much thought, which is something I should never forget given I was one of them for 30+ years. 

 
proninja said:
Actually, he didn't. The question proposed in the title of the thread is in fact about you. Not about other people who have suffered a lot. In this case he'd have actually been appropriately answering the question to make it about him. ;)
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Good point. 

 
culdeus said:
Phase of the Game said:
It's fascinating to watch those that don't believe in Jesus go into threads about Jesus/religion and mock those that do.
Click to expand...
Its not a thread about jesus, it's about the level of pain inflicted on a person in 3 days versus your own life.  The fact that people want to make it about religion is the off topic element here, not the reverse. 
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Well the OP was off the mark. Christ was not crucified for three days; he rose from the dead on the Third Day. Jesus hung on the cross for six hours.

Looking at it purely from a medical perspective:

https://vimeo.com/159540512

 
proninja said:
I've had two brain surgeries in the last year, and man, you ####### win. Holy hell. 
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Yet somehow right now is probably the best I've felt physically, mentally, and spiritually since it started.  Anytime I started to feel bad for myself I would tell myself to stop being a ##### as I had a good life with an amazing wife/kids.  My wife is a counselor so she made me talk about it regularly.  It pissed me off everytime she began one of her sessions, but it certainly helped me/us.

 
Politician Spock said:
My position is that there are things occurring in the universe that our five sense cannot tune into, nor can anything man has created up to this point tune into either. All I have to do to demonstrate what I'm talking about is to say there are radio signals all around us that our five senses cannot tune into, and then use a tool to convert the signals into something the five sense can tune into. However, because I believe there are things going on that we don't have tools to convert them into something the five sense can tune into, I can't demonstrate that part of my position. Since I can't demonstrate it, it's not logical, but don't try to tell me it's not probable.  
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Not improbable, less probable.  Much less.

ETA: You're one of the better scholars around here when it comes to this subject.  I deeply respect you for that.  Just doesn't make sense to me why you'd still be sitting on the fence. 

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Well the OP was off the mark. Christ was not crucified for three days; he rose from the dead on the Third Day. Jesus hung on the cross for six hours.

Looking at it purely from a medical perspective:

https://vimeo.com/159540512
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Well, that's fine.  I didn't really think it was all that big a deal either even if it lasted 3 days.  (Compared to any many 100s of death ways).  The overall crucifixion is probably in the top 2% worst ways to die, but nowhere near the top.   

 
FWIW, I don't think science/Christianity have to or do conflict.  Did God create the universe through big bang/evolution?  Sure why not.  Who am I to say how he did it.  To those that say it conflicts with the Bible, I'll say this:  When God was telling whomever how he created the earth he was talking to people who had barely invented the wheel.  Is how he did it important for my belief?  No.  If you want to believe that this 1:10^100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 chance existence all occurred because of randomness that is your choice.

 
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shader said:
:lmao:

I don't know when the Jerusalem Post was founded, but I bet it doesn't make it that far back.

You're asking for a level of proof that you don't require for any other historical event that happened 2K+ years ago.  

We could spend days arguing this point but it's pretty clear that your mind is made up.   It's pretty difficult to get so much wrong in one sentence, but you manage 2 whoppers.  
Click to expand...
The Romans were great record keepers, but given we are talking about ancient times, obviously their records are going to be pretty archaic. However, when stories of the bible make claims such as there was a Roman census of Judea during Herod's time, and there is no evidence of a Roman census of Judea during Herod's time in the Roman records at all, then the problem doesn't lie with the archaic Roman record keeping. The problem is with what the bible is claiming. That's just one example of many. It really became harder and harder for my to trust the validity of the bible the more I learned of how many claims the bible makes that just don't hold water. Movie goers wouldn't put up with a fictional Hollywood movie with as many plot holes as the bible has, yet people have devoted their life to the bible being true. And I understand why, as I was one who did it. The desire for something to be true is a very strong bias to overcome. 

 
tonydead said:
Not improbable, less probable.  Much less.

ETA: You're one of the better scholars around here when it comes to this subject.  I deeply respect you for that.  Just doesn't make sense to me why you'd still be sitting on the fence. 
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Well I don't see myself as sitting on the fence at all as I'm pretty much opposed to anyone who thinks they know a thing about god. I see a huge gap between accepting the possibility of god existing, and being one who says "let me tell you about him". 

 
tonydead said:
Or the ancient Persian method of Scaphism.  Really when you think about it, comparatively Jesus had it pretty easy if he only had to endure 3 days of torture.  I mean flaying, slow slicing and disembowelment can all be made to take longer than three days, any of which would make crucifixion look like a walk in the park.  
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I actually just remembered another execution method actually not from all too long ago. How about good old quartering...

And wow, I've never heard of scaphism....just read about it...YIKES

 
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rascal said:
FWIW, I don't think science/Christianity have to or do conflict.  Did God create the universe through big bang/evolution?  Sure why not.  Who am I to say how he did it.  To those that say it conflicts with the Bible, I'll say this:  When God was telling whomever how he created the earth he was talking to people who had barely invented the wheel.  Is how he did it important for my belief?  No.  If you want to believe that this 10^-100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 existence all occurred because of some random chance that is your choice.
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Baby steps.

 
tonydead said:
Baby steps.
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"How in the world could there be any science in Scripture? There can not be, 'cause the two historical periods (Scripture and Modern Science) are separated by so much. The Scriptures are not teaching science. It's very hard for me to accept not just a literal interpretation of Scripture, but a fundamentalist approach to religious belief. It's kind of a plague. It presents itself as science, and it's not."

~George Coyne, former Director of Vatican Observatory

 
technically, was it really 3 days of suffering?  assuming he died on 'Good Friday', the torture would have had to start on Tuesday night.  IIRC, I believe the last supper was Thursday (or possibly Wednesday), making 3 days of suffering impossible.

I got into a similar 'debate' with the wife just last week about this.  She made a comment about a '4 day golf trip' I have coming up and I had to stop her.  If I leave on a Thursday evening and I'm back by noon on Sunday, how is that 4 days?  I'm not even gone for 72 hours.  Alas, the woman wasn't buying my logic but I stand by it. 

 
jomar said:
technically, was it really 3 days of suffering?  assuming he died on 'Good Friday', the torture would have had to start on Tuesday night.  IIRC, I believe the last supper was Thursday (or possibly Wednesday), making 3 days of suffering impossible.

I got into a similar 'debate' with the wife just last week about this.  She made a comment about a '4 day golf trip' I have coming up and I had to stop her.  If I leave on a Thursday evening and I'm back by noon on Sunday, how is that 4 days?  I'm not even gone for 72 hours.  Alas, the woman wasn't buying my logic but I stand by it. 
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Knowing you are going to be killed three days in advance could be mentally torture/suffering :)  

 
rascal said:
I know, but I don't understand it at all.  I guess my western mind goes tilt.
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Every minute of every day, cells in our bodies are created and destroyed - but not from nothing.  From the building blocks left behind by other cells.  The concept of a "nothing" from which "something" came is incompatible with Buddhism in most of its forms.  Time is not linear, the universe never "came into existence", it simply always has been and always will be, forming and reforming.  Kind of like the concept of "God" in most current Western religions is incompatible with being created or destroyed - He is eternal.  The Buddhists generally believe this about the universe/life in general.

 
Henry Ford said:
Every minute of every day, cells in our bodies are created and destroyed - but not from nothing.  From the building blocks left behind by other cells.  The concept of a "nothing" from which "something" came is incompatible with Buddhism in most of its forms.  Time is not linear, the universe never "came into existence", it simply always has been and always will be, forming and reforming.  Kind of like the concept of "God" in most current Western religions is incompatible with being created or destroyed - He is eternal.  The Buddhists generally believe this about the universe/life in general.
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Right, everything is until it isn't. 

 
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