How Badly Did Jesus Suffer? Do You, in Your Personal Life, Suffer More Than The Three Days? (1 Viewer)

[MarvinTScamper]

I don't think anyone could.  What all of you haven't seemed to consider, and yes I assume it all happened as written, is that his Father COULD HAVE spared his life, but did not.  

There is/was/will be no greater sacrifice than knowing what was coming and suffering through it for those who betrayed him. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

As for the question asked in the OP, I think this woman has endured far more undeserved suffering than the religious Jesus ever did: http://nbc4i.com/2017/01/20/woman-set-on-fire-speaks-against-ex-boyfriend-in-court/

Just sayin'. 

Why?

 

[culdeus]

Me, no. But on the scale of ####ty deaths it doesnt really rate all that highly. 

Dying of several diseases can be far worse. Cholera, the plague, not to mention most cancers and wasting diseases like als.

Then you got the death camps that go on for years.  

So no. 3 days tacked to a cross seems inside a lot of other deaths I would rather have before that. 

 

[joffer]

I don't think anyone could.  What all of you haven't seemed to consider, and yes I assume it all happened as written, is that his Father COULD HAVE spared his life, but did not.  

There is/was/will be no greater sacrifice than knowing what was coming and suffering through it for those who betrayed him. 

How do you know they didn't consider that?

 

[Politician Spock]

Why?

18 months of pain.... six hours of pain.... I can see why you are having a hard time calling that one. 

 

[Politician Spock]

How do you know they didn't consider that?

He knows all. 

 

[Reg Lllama of Brixton]

from a Lllama? no thanks 

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

11 While they were going, behold, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had taken place.
12 And when they had assembled with the elders and taken counsel, they gave a sufficient sum of money to the soldiers
13 and said, "Tell people, 'His disciples came by night and stole him away while we were asleep.'
14 And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble."
15 So they took the money and did as they were directed. And this story has been spread among the Jews to this day.

- Matthew 28:11-15

 

[Porkchop Express]

There are cancer patients that are in complete agony for months.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

How do you know they didn't consider that?

I don't.  But no one here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

18 months of pain.... six hours of pain.... I can see why you are having a hard time calling that one. 

Spoken like a true atheist.  

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Me, no. But on the scale of ####ty deaths it doesnt really rate all that highly. 

Dying of several diseases can be far worse. Cholera, the plague, not to mention most cancers and wasting diseases like als.

Then you got the death camps that go on for years.  

So no. 3 days tacked to a cross seems inside a lot of other deaths I would rather have before that. 

"Tacked to a cross".  What a dirty c word you are.  

 

[Beef Ravioli]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

Paul addresses that same thought. Of course if one does not believe the Bible to be true, then this point will not be taken. According to these verses the resurrected Christ was seen by over 500 people before His ascension into Heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:4-7
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 
5   And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 
6   After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 
7   After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

No need for a hoax for a story that was stolen from mythologies. The resurrection story can be found in Greek, Roman, Babylonian, Egyptian, etc, etc... mythologies. 

There is however historical evidence of the crucifixion story. King Izas of Edessa was a Nazerene Jew who led the Jewish revolt against Rome and was crucified by Roman officials with two other revolt leaders outside of Jerusalem. The traditional headdress of the King of Edessa was a crown of thorns. However this crucifixion didn't happen around 30 AD like tradition has led us to believe. It according to historical records occurred near the end of the Jewish revolt (66 to 70 AD).

There probably was a man named Jeshua who lived from 4 BC to around 30 AD who was a carpenter who started teaching and gathered a following. This probably resulted in his following believing he was the next anointed King of Israel. This really is no different than people rallying around political candidates today. It was simply a political movement within Judaism, and he was probably killed by other Jews for it, and it had nothing to do with Rome, which is why there is no record of it, other than Josephus making a simple mention of him. He probably was a pacifist (as Essenses were pacifist) and probably taught pay Caesar what is Caesars and to not raise swords to Rome. By the time Paul started writing letters around 63 AD over 30 years later, the mythological stories of miracles and what not from Greek, Rome, Babylon, Egypt, etc, etc.... had been applied to Jeshua via word of mouth story teling, and now he was a savior (a pagan concept from the mythologies) who we need to get into heaven (a pagan concept from the mythologies) and avoid hell (a pagan concept from the mythologies). 

It was after Paul had started on his mission trips to tell people about his vision of the resurrected Jeshua, who shared with him a special gospel that Jeshua had NOT shared with anyone before he died, that all hell starts breaking loose in the Jewish community. Not because of Paul, or because of the followers of Jeshua led by his brother James, but because King Izas of Edessa is leading a revolt against Rome. When this revolt fails, and Izas is crucified for it, the Jews are scattered.

Rome now has a serious problem. If these scattered Jews start telling their new neighbors of their plight, the sympathy they get could escalate into an even larger revolt against Rome. Despite christians claiming Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gosples, the truth is no one knows who wrote them. We also know that Matthew and Luke used a source for their writing, a source we can't find any record of, so it is just called Q. We don't know who wrote Q either. What we do know is that the gospels were written after the Jewish revolt (66 to 70 AD). We also know they were written in Greek. They were not written in Arabic. So we know the target audience were Greek speaking people. Now, who at the time in the world spoke Greek and would be interested in the accounts of the gospels? It would be the greek speaking neighbors of the scattered Jews, who are hearing the Jews side of the story of the Jewish revolt that failed.

The gospels were written so that the Greek speaking world that were hearing about Rome crucifying the Jewish revolt leader would instead hear a story about how the Jews are to blame for his crucifixion. To make the Jews look even worse, they combined what happened to King Izas with the story of the Essene carpenter messiah as only a minority of Jews (Essense) believed it, and the majority of Jews rejected it. So not only did they kill Izas (aka Jeshua) they also rejected Jeshua (aka Izas) as their messiah. So now Izas is Jeshua, and Jeshua is Izas. The icing on the cake is that Jeshua/Izas (eventually just called Jesus) was a pacifist, who said pay to caesar what is caesar's and wouldn't raise his sword to Rome. This is a much better story for the greek speaking world to hear than the truth about how Izas led a revolt against Rome. The hope of those who wrote the gospels was that the greek speaking world would think the Jews are just dumb and stupid instead of being worthy of sympathy and a bigger revolt against Rome. It worked. 

The scattering of the Jews also snuffed out the Essenes who believed Jeshua was the next King of Israel (and by birthright his brother James is the King in the absence of Jeshua) as without a country anymore, does it really matter who the next King is? This allowed Paul's gospel (which even he admits was not given to him by Jeshua's followers) to go uncontested, despite the Essene following of Jeshua not agreeing with Paul's law doesn't need to be practiced anymore position. The scattered Essenes probably became the Ebionites, who were a sect considered heretics because they rejected Paul. So not only do we have Rome's version of what happened, we also have Paul's version. Neither version is likely what really happened at all. 

Even more interesting is that even with all the political crap that resulted in what we have today, there is a lot of synergy with the old testament, even with all the pagan mythologies that were applied to Jeshua/Izas. This is because Judaism is just as much of a myth as all the other ancient mythologies. They all seem to share many similarities, because a lot of it comes from astrology. They each also have their unique aspects too, and the clearest unique aspect of Judaism is monotheism. But outside the difference between one god or many gods, many of the stories from the old testament are found in other mythologies as well. Thus fitting stories taken from mythologies that don't exist in the old testament work like nice fitting puzzle pieces, because they are all shaped by the same molds (the stars). 

 

[Ilov80s]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

Don't even need to do all that, just need to tell people the stories and eventually write it down. Jesus wouldn't even had needed to be real. 

 

[joffer]

I don't.  But no one here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

How do you know that?

 

[Politician Spock]

I don't.  But no one here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

When someone does not prevent suffering that they can easily prevent, they're evil. The boyfriend could have simply prevented setting the girlfriend on fire by not dousing her in gasoline and lighting it. He chose not to, and for that is clearly evil. God chose not to prevent the suffering of Jesus. Shouldn't be shocked by that though given how much suffering in the old testament he not only failed to prevent, he commanded. 

 

[shader]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

It would take a whole host of liars for this to be true.  

 

[Frostillicus]

Man, I thought this said Jesus Shuttlesworth at first.

 

[lakerstan]

I'd imagine all the other people who were crucified back in the day had it similarly bad.

There are some not so great stories from POW's that would be comparable.

Then you have the whole holocaust/gas chambers/torture thing going on.

Some pretty nasty dudes in Asia and Africa over the last few centuries.

Or spending your whole life in slavery - being whipped or raped...that wouldn't exactly be fun....

I'm going to say that some have endured much worse for much longer....

But the closest I have come to a cross is a splinter....

 

[tonydead]

It's hard to hear music and think that mere logic and humanism explains it. That divinity plays a role in it. That is all. 

That is why I consider myself a diest. It's hard for me to see so much beauty in the world and think there's not something beyond our five senses influencing it. 

C'mon, you know that logic doesn't hold up with the simple question; who designed the designer?  

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I don't think anyone could.  What all of you haven't seemed to consider, and yes I assume it all happened as written, is that his Father COULD HAVE spared his life, but did not.  

There is/was/will be no greater sacrifice than knowing what was coming and suffering through it for those who betrayed him. 

Also, born in a pig sty, wore a potato sack as clothes his whole life. Frankencense and myrrh? Worst birthday presents ever. The one potential saving grace is the missing years. Potentially two epic decades in his teens and twenties - a carpenter, care free, working miracles, Israeli hotties, the sky is the limit for what that dude could have pulled off in those years. 

 

[The Commish]

I am a believer - but was thinking in church today how it could have been the biggest hoax ever if they had simply stolen the body and then attributed it to the resurrection.  I don't believe that, but I can see how that argument could be made.  Yes it would be hard to keep the story straight and swear everyone to secrecy, but if only a few were involved then all they would have to do is commit the hoax and then goad other believers into the veracity of accounts they made up.  You would just need a few unbreakable hoaxers.

I've had this thought before, but it doesn't make any sense.  NO ONE at the time (even the apostles) believed the resurrection happened.  They didn't believe until Jesus presented himself to them.  This was a time where the popular belief was that the body was evil and death freed the spirit and the spirit went to be with God, cleansed from all impurity.  There is exactly ZERO motive for the apostles to steal the body much less perpetuate this particular story.  Yet, they continued with this story even as they knew they were going to die doing so.  This doesn't even get into the logistics of it all and being able to keep it quiet for thousands of years etc.

 

[rascal]

Worst pain I've ever experienced was when I herniated the three lower discs in my back.  I was home alone working out, wife away with family, when it happened.  I collapsed to the floor and my back k would spasm every time I tried to move.  It took me 10 hours to move the 10 feet to my phone after passing out numerous times due to the pain.  Medics had to break down the front door and found me covered in feces and urine as I lost control of those functions  I when it happened.  My brother in law met me at the hospital and threw up when he saw my back (they had cleaned me off by then so it wasn't my self defecation).  I was given the max dose of morphine and it didn't do a damn thing.  Ive had kidney stones (passed a 8mm), infected balls due to vasectomy gone bad, and a spinal fluid leak giving me an epic migraine (I regularly get migraines due to multiple concussions), and continue to fight an addiction to narcotics due to my consistent back pain.  This has all occurred in the past 8 years and my faith has undoubtedly been tested.  Before I was about as arrogant and hubris as one can get.  I finally broke down about six months ago and rededicated my life to God.  I've now been pain free for four months and off narcotics for 5.  Not sure how this relates to the original question, but anyway.

 

[James Daulton]

Worst pain I've ever experienced was when I herniated the three lower discs in my back.  I was home alone working out, wife away with family, when it happened.  I collapsed to the floor and my back k would spasm every time I tried to move.  It took me 10 hours to move the 10 feet to my phone after passing out numerous times due to the pain.  Medics had to break down the front door and found me covered in feces and urine as I lost control of those functions  I when it happened.  My brother in law met me at the hospital and threw up when he saw my back (they had cleaned me off by then so it wasn't my self defecation).  I was given the max dose of morphine and it didn't do a damn thing.  Ive had kidney stones (passed a 8mm), infected balls due to vasectomy gone bad, and a spinal fluid leak giving me an epic migraine (I regularly get migraines due to multiple concussions), and continue to fight an addiction to narcotics due to my consistent back pain.  This has all occurred in the past 8 years and my faith has undoubtedly been tested.  Before I was about as arrogant and hubris as one can get.  I finally broke down about six months ago and rededicated my life to God.  I've now been pain free for four months and off narcotics for 5.  Not sure how this relates to the original question, but anyway.

Good god after everything you've been through I'd have tried god too. 

 

[Politician Spock]

C'mon, you know that logic doesn't hold up with the simple question; who designed the designer?  

What I said isn't logic. 

Logic is demonstrative. It is limited to what can be shown.

 

[culdeus]

Worst pain I've ever experienced was when I herniated the three lower discs in my back.  I was home alone working out, wife away with family, when it happened.  I collapsed to the floor and my back k would spasm every time I tried to move.  It took me 10 hours to move the 10 feet to my phone after passing out numerous times due to the pain.  Medics had to break down the front door and found me covered in feces and urine as I lost control of those functions  I when it happened.  My brother in law met me at the hospital and threw up when he saw my back (they had cleaned me off by then so it wasn't my self defecation).  I was given the max dose of morphine and it didn't do a damn thing.  Ive had kidney stones (passed a 8mm), infected balls due to vasectomy gone bad, and a spinal fluid leak giving me an epic migraine (I regularly get migraines due to multiple concussions), and continue to fight an addiction to narcotics due to my consistent back pain.  This has all occurred in the past 8 years and my faith has undoubtedly been tested.  Before I was about as arrogant and hubris as one can get.  I finally broke down about six months ago and rededicated my life to God.  I've now been pain free for four months and off narcotics for 5.  Not sure how this relates to the original question, but anyway.

What the hell did you do to slip 3 disks 

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't.  But no one here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

If you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent God, everyone here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

 

[Henry Ford]

What the hell did you do to slip 3 disks 

Oh, man, you just opened yourself up to a slew of "yo' mama" jokes. 

 

[tonydead]

What I said isn't logic. 

Logic is demonstrative. It is limited to what can be shown.

Something from nothing is much more probable, especially with recent science starting to point that direction, than a hypothesis of a deity without any evidence of any sort. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Worst pain I've ever experienced was when I herniated the three lower discs in my back.   

Ive had kidney stones (passed a 8mm), infected balls due to vasectomy gone bad, and a spinal fluid leak giving me an epic migraine 

Jumpin' Jehoshaphat. Infected balls due to a vasectomy gone bad?

 

[zoonation]

Paul addresses that same thought. Of course if one does not believe the Bible to be true, then this point will not be taken. According to these verses the resurrected Christ was seen by over 500 people before His ascension into Heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:4-7
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 
5   And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 
6   After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 
7   After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 

Yet there is no secular account of what was surely the biggest news ever. Weird. 

 

[zoonation]

No need for a hoax for a story that was stolen from mythologies. The resurrection story can be found in Greek, Roman, Babylonian, Egyptian, etc, etc... mythologies. 

There is however historical evidence of the crucifixion story. King Izas of Edessa was a Nazerene Jew who led the Jewish revolt against Rome and was crucified by Roman officials with two other revolt leaders outside of Jerusalem. The traditional headdress of the King of Edessa was a crown of thorns. However this crucifixion didn't happen around 30 AD like tradition has led us to believe. It according to historical records occurred near the end of the Jewish revolt (66 to 70 AD).

There probably was a man named Jeshua who lived from 4 BC to around 30 AD who was a carpenter who started teaching and gathered a following. This probably resulted in his following believing he was the next anointed King of Israel. This really is no different than people rallying around political candidates today. It was simply a political movement within Judaism, and he was probably killed by other Jews for it, and it had nothing to do with Rome, which is why there is no record of it, other than Josephus making a simple mention of him. He probably was a pacifist (as Essenses were pacifist) and probably taught pay Caesar what is Caesars and to not raise swords to Rome. By the time Paul started writing letters around 63 AD over 30 years later, the mythological stories of miracles and what not from Greek, Rome, Babylon, Egypt, etc, etc.... had been applied to Jeshua via word of mouth story teling, and now he was a savior (a pagan concept from the mythologies) who we need to get into heaven (a pagan concept from the mythologies) and avoid hell (a pagan concept from the mythologies). 

It was after Paul had started on his mission trips to tell people about his vision of the resurrected Jeshua, who shared with him a special gospel that Jeshua had NOT shared with anyone before he died, that all hell starts breaking loose in the Jewish community. Not because of Paul, or because of the followers of Jeshua led by his brother James, but because King Izas of Edessa is leading a revolt against Rome. When this revolt fails, and Izas is crucified for it, the Jews are scattered.

Rome now has a serious problem. If these scattered Jews start telling their new neighbors of their plight, the sympathy they get could escalate into an even larger revolt against Rome. Despite christians claiming Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gosples, the truth is no one knows who wrote them. We also know that Matthew and Luke used a source for their writing, a source we can't find any record of, so it is just called Q. We don't know who wrote Q either. What we do know is that the gospels were written after the Jewish revolt (66 to 70 AD). We also know they were written in Greek. They were not written in Arabic. So we know the target audience were Greek speaking people. Now, who at the time in the world spoke Greek and would be interested in the accounts of the gospels? It would be the greek speaking neighbors of the scattered Jews, who are hearing the Jews side of the story of the Jewish revolt that failed.

The gospels were written so that the Greek speaking world that were hearing about Rome crucifying the Jewish revolt leader would instead hear a story about how the Jews are to blame for his crucifixion. To make the Jews look even worse, they combined what happened to King Izas with the story of the Essene carpenter messiah as only a minority of Jews (Essense) believed it, and the majority of Jews rejected it. So not only did they kill Izas (aka Jeshua) they also rejected Jeshua (aka Izas) as their messiah. So now Izas is Jeshua, and Jeshua is Izas. The icing on the cake is that Jeshua/Izas (eventually just called Jesus) was a pacifist, who said pay to caesar what is caesar's and wouldn't raise his sword to Rome. This is a much better story for the greek speaking world to hear than the truth about how Izas led a revolt against Rome. The hope of those who wrote the gospels was that the greek speaking world would think the Jews are just dumb and stupid instead of being worthy of sympathy and a bigger revolt against Rome. It worked. 

The scattering of the Jews also snuffed out the Essenes who believed Jeshua was the next King of Israel (and by birthright his brother James is the King in the absence of Jeshua) as without a country anymore, does it really matter who the next King is? This allowed Paul's gospel (which even he admits was not given to him by Jeshua's followers) to go uncontested, despite the Essene following of Jeshua not agreeing with Paul's law doesn't need to be practiced anymore position. The scattered Essenes probably became the Ebionites, who were a sect considered heretics because they rejected Paul. So not only do we have Rome's version of what happened, we also have Paul's version. Neither version is likely what really happened at all. 

Even more interesting is that even with all the political crap that resulted in what we have today, there is a lot of synergy with the old testament, even with all the pagan mythologies that were applied to Jeshua/Izas. This is because Judaism is just as much of a myth as all the other ancient mythologies. They all seem to share many similarities, because a lot of it comes from astrology. They each also have their unique aspects too, and the clearest unique aspect of Judaism is monotheism. But outside the difference between one god or many gods, many of the stories from the old testament are found in other mythologies as well. Thus fitting stories taken from mythologies that don't exist in the old testament work like nice fitting puzzle pieces, because they are all shaped by the same molds (the stars). 

Um, stop inundating us with all this reasoned "scholarship".  Jesus was God's son. Born of a virgin.  Resurrected and hung out for a while before taking the bullet train back up to heaven.

 

[bagger]

That he suffered as a human. 

No anti-semitism or anti-atheism in this thread. 

Just as a man.  

Well this thread is a solid start.

 

[rockaction]

Well this thread is a solid start.

 I think that people that know me know my stuff, and so far, it's turned out well. I'm a non-Christian thinking about Christian things. Hope that helps. 

 

[matuski]

That isn't an argument against a designer, it's an argument against literally any origins story, because whatever happened first, well what caused that?

The only logic that holds up to these questions is acknowledging we don't know.

From there, as with any other explanation for anything else in this world, adding invisible magical beings doesn't tend help the theory/explanation sound plausible. Much less magical invisible beings as the only explanation.

possible explanation/theory >>>>>>> possible explanation/theory + supernatural beings >>>>>> supernatural beings.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yet there is no secular account of what was surely the biggest news ever. Weird. 

Josephus and Tacitus down?

 

[ShamrockPride]

Just as a basic comparison, if I HAD to choose, I'd much prefer to die via the Romans rather than Vlad.

 

[tonydead]

That isn't an argument against a designer, it's an argument against literally any origins story, because whatever happened first, well what caused that?

Wasn't making that argument. Just pointing out the problem with "beauty implies design".  I fully acknowledge that the things going on may have been going on without a start is a possibility. 

 

[MarvinTScamper]

How do you know that?

because I'm not clueless?

 

[Beef Ravioli]

I saw this on my Facebook book feed. It might help answer some questions?

http://gods411.blogspot.com/2013/04/how-jesus-died-for-you.html?m=1

 

[Jayrok]

The idea of the suffering of Jesus wasn't just the physical pain.  The passion scene is the Christian interpretation of the Jewish text in Isaiah 53 of the suffering servant.  As a man, Jesus would have known some physical pain.  Surely he stubbed his toe from time to time with those open toed sandals and all those rocks in the road.  As a carpenter, surely he got a splinter and bashed his thumb with a hammer.  I wonder what he shouted out when he felt that throb...  "Son of [a] man!"  I wonder if Joseph called him down... "Jesus! watch your language.."  :digress:

He bore our iniquities.  For the first time, Jesus felt what it was like to be a sinful human.  He felt regret, despair, sorrow, hopelessness... he felt what it was like to be forsaken, even by his father.  "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"  He felt alone, ashamed, completely downtrodden.  He had on his body the sins of the entire world and all the scars that come with them for those hours.  For the first time in his existence (not just his short life as a human being), he felt what it was like to be away from God.  To be cut off.  Something no human can imagine.  It must have been the worst feeling he had the whole time.  

Yes, of course, he had peace when he died and rose back up to heaven.  But the physical suffering wasn't the point of the narrative, despite Mel Gibson's attempt to make it about that.  The payment for sins and the bridge to heaven for man to return to God.  That was the point.  It wasn't to show that Jesus could/would suffer a much worse torture than any human in history.  Burn victims may roll their eyes at being scourged and spending a few hours on a cross.  

No, it was to show that there is redemption for human suffering and there is hope for a future that is free from all types of suffering. 

 

[jomar]

Yet there is no secular account of what was surely the biggest news ever. Weird. 

because the liberal media wouldn't report it.  SAD!

 

[shader]

Yet there is no secular account of what was surely the biggest news ever. Weird. 

I don't know when the Jerusalem Post was founded, but I bet it doesn't make it that far back.

You're asking for a level of proof that you don't require for any other historical event that happened 2K+ years ago.  

We could spend days arguing this point but it's pretty clear that your mind is made up.   It's pretty difficult to get so much wrong in one sentence, but you manage 2 whoppers.  

 

[Wildcat]

Yet there is no secular account of what was surely the biggest news ever. Weird. 

My Facebook feed only goes back to 2007.   Surely Dan Rather was around during that time?

 

[tonydead]

Just as a basic comparison, if I HAD to choose, I'd much prefer to die via the Romans rather than Vlad.

Or the ancient Persian method of Scaphism.  Really when you think about it, comparatively Jesus had it pretty easy if he only had to endure 3 days of torture.  I mean flaying, slow slicing and disembowelment can all be made to take longer than three days, any of which would make crucifixion look like a walk in the park.  

 

[joffer]

If you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent God, everyone here has suffered when someone could have snapped their fingers and prevented it. 

because I'm not clueless?

 

[MarvinTScamper]

I didn't realize you all believed in God, and died on the cross despite His being your Father.  

My bad.

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't know when the Jerusalem Post was founded, but I bet it doesn't make it that far back.

You're asking for a level of proof that you don't require for any other historical event that happened 2K+ years ago.  

We could spend days arguing this point but it's pretty clear that your mind is made up.   It's pretty difficult to get so much wrong in one sentence, but you manage 2 whoppers.  

What level of proof is he asking for? It seems like he's requesting any supporting information at all that isn't included in a religious text.