How does Marvin Lewis still have a job? (1 Viewer)

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Now these Bengals may be limited, but its is really hard to fathom where they are at. 4-8 with a healthy Palmer? If this guy is back there next year, I'll be flummoxed.

 

[redman]

I'm pretty sure that he looks like a great guy to a franchise that made winning four games look like a successful season for more than a decade.

 

[SSOG]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.

Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).

Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.

Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

 

[Keith Lewis]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

 

[knowledge dropper]

I'm pretty sure that he looks like a great guy to a franchise that made winning four games look like a successful season for more than a decade.

Lifelong fan and he doesn't. Dave Shula and Coslet could do this well with the talent assembled. The front office did not spend in the past on players and facilities. Lewis was able to surround the core talent with questionable character guys that he could control for about 2 seasons. He has lost control of this team. It does not look like they respect him and his game day decision making. He has taken this team as far as he can. They are going to need someone else to take this team back to the top of the AFC North. The only thing that can save him and the situation is if Mike Brown hires a strong GM. He won't and he is probably too cheap to fire Lewis. The disfunctional family will be back next year with fewer overpaid vets and overpaid coordinators.

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

 

[Young 8]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.

Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).

Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.

Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

yeah, i'm sure that Cinci fans are really excited about Lewis and this teamROTFLMAO

 

[Young 8]

It looks like all the former Ravens DC are highly OVERRATED.....as HC

ask to Mike Nolan

 

[Tanner9919]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.

Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).

Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.

Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

in 3 of those 4 years, they didn't have a WINNING record, either.. they were .500...so to rephrase your post, "as HC of the Bungles for 5 seasons, Lewis posted ONLY ONE season with a WINNING record."

or, cynics would say

"with THAT much talent on offense, how could the Bungles have ONLY ONE winning season in the past 5 years?!?!

sorry, but the guy has GOT to go...he sucks..he has one of the BEST QB's in the NFL, two top 10 WR's and perhaps the best #3 WR in Chris Henry, and a SOLID running game..for the 'defensive' guru that M. Lewis was supposed to be, this is a sham.

he is to defenses what Brian Billick is to offenses..both are supposed to be 'gurus' , neither is worth a dime at this point..

 

[Young 8]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

the only "owned" here is SSOG and his stupid post

 

[Rushmore]

I'm pretty sure that he looks like a great guy to a franchise that made winning four games look like a successful season for more than a decade.

Lifelong fan and he doesn't. Dave Shula and Coslet could do this well with the talent assembled. The front office did not spend in the past on players and facilities. Lewis was able to surround the core talent with questionable character guys that he could control for about 2 seasons. He has lost control of this team. It does not look like they respect him and his game day decision making. He has taken this team as far as he can. They are going to need someone else to take this team back to the top of the AFC North. The only thing that can save him and the situation is if Mike Brown hires a strong GM. He won't and he is probably too cheap to fire Lewis. The disfunctional family will be back next year with fewer overpaid vets and overpaid coordinators.

 

[oddball]

I can see Marty coaching them next year. That would be interesting...

 

[Rushmore]

I can see Marty coaching them next year. That would be interesting...

I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen. Unfortunately, it almost certainly won't. That's not how Mike Brown rolls.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Lewis won't be fired anytime soon. Brown has been ridiculously loyal to his coaches and pocketbook -- it would be a shock of epic proportions if he were to let a coach go with any time left on his contract. Lewis is signed through 2010 and has been an asset to the community.

I think it's reasonable to expect the following:

1. No one year contract extension for Lewis this year, which Brown has done after every year Lewis has been the head coach IIRC.

2. A number of defensive assistants will be gone. I'm not sure of their contract status, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Brown break his MO of not paying two sets of coaches in this instance.

3. No new scouting or player development hires.

Lewis would be firmly on the hot seat in most other places and, as knowledge dropper noted, most fans have now turned on the entire coaching staff. No improvement in players drafted on the defensive side of the ball, extremely questionable gameplanning and roster management and bad in-game management (which have been issues since the beginning) become much bigger issues when you don't win.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I can see Marty coaching them next year. That would be interesting...

I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen. Unfortunately, it almost certainly won't. That's not how Mike Brown rolls.

Marty would be equally maddening, only in different ways. I don't disagree that it would be nice to be maddened by a coach that regularly gets his teams into the playoffs, though.

 

[redman]

I can see Marty coaching them next year. That would be interesting...

I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen. Unfortunately, it almost certainly won't. That's not how Mike Brown rolls.

Marty would be equally maddening, only in different ways. I don't disagree that it would be nice to be maddened by a coach that regularly gets his teams into the playoffs, though.

Reputation aside, Marty has consistently shown that he knows how to use the talent on his team. A team with a very good offense and a struggling defense is perfect because Marty's not innovative on offense but wouldn't need to be as he focused on toughening up the defense. I could easily see him turning that team into a 13-3 team in the short term. As for the playoffs, I agree he's snakebit but how far do you think you're going to get in the playoffs against Indy and NE anyway?

 

[RBM]

Having trouble deciding who is the coach that should be fired most, him or his old buddy Billick.

 

[Warpig]

I'm not a fan...but if I were, I MIGHT be willing to give him a free pass on this year. His defense was decimated by injuries/suspensions and he's lost a couple of O-linemen due to injury at various times throughout the year. Also add in the fact that their pro-bowl RB has been injured too.

Palmer has elevated the play of his WR's (career year for Housh) and the defense hasn't been able to stop anyone. Let them all get healthy (hopefully next year) and see if Marvin can coach with a level playing field.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I can see Marty coaching them next year. That would be interesting...

I would absolutely LOVE to see that happen. Unfortunately, it almost certainly won't. That's not how Mike Brown rolls.

Marty would be equally maddening, only in different ways. I don't disagree that it would be nice to be maddened by a coach that regularly gets his teams into the playoffs, though.

Reputation aside, Marty has consistently shown that he knows how to use the talent on his team. A team with a very good offense and a struggling defense is perfect because Marty's not innovative on offense but wouldn't need to be as he focused on toughening up the defense. I could easily see him turning that team into a 13-3 team in the short term. As for the playoffs, I agree he's snakebit but how far do you think you're going to get in the playoffs against Indy and NE anyway?

Marty's gameplanning and in-game management has been as often than Lewis. I know the list of coaches that bring the best out of the rostered talent and make good weekly and in-game decisions is short. I just wish it didn't seem like such an impossible dream to find one while this offense is(was) intact.I still believe that, while it seems a moot point now since both OT are past the point of full health ever again, a fully healthy Bengal offense would give Indy or NE a run on some Sundays. That's all it takes in the playoffs.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm not a fan...but if I were, I MIGHT be willing to give him a free pass on this year. His defense was decimated by injuries/suspensions and he's lost a couple of O-linemen due to injury at various times throughout the year. Also add in the fact that their pro-bowl RB has been injured too.

Palmer has elevated the play of his WR's (career year for Housh) and the defense hasn't been able to stop anyone. Let them all get healthy (hopefully next year) and see if Marvin can coach with a level playing field.

Here's an excerpt from a post in the IDP forum a few weeks back addressing the team's defensive problems. The post was much longer and barely touched on the offensive issues, which could be at least as long.

...

1. Fire the entire defensive coaching staff.

I’m a big believer in continuity. I think it’s a mistake to force players to fit into a new system every couple of seasons. I was willing to give the defensive coaching staff the benefit of the doubt for one more season. No more.

The gameplanning sucks. If you’re going to be a defense dependent on turnovers rather than play a three-and-out game, you better bring more than four rushers if you can’t bring pressure with your line alone. You better take some chances on the outside with bump and run coverage rather than laying seven yards off receivers when you face horrid QBs.

There has been no improvement whatsoever across multiple position groups. Injuries aside, Caleb Miller and Ahmad Brooks have shown no improvement. The entire defensive back corps blow coverage assignments nearly every series. Promising draft picks like Keiwan Ratliff regressed rather than improved. Johnathan Joseph appears to be doing the same.

Aside from Justin Smith, no one on the team exhibits anything resembling a textbook tackling form. When asked, the coaches state there will be no extra tackling drills and that the players should do what they’re taught. When pushed, they say that players who cannot tackle a RB on a big play (Marshawn Lynch last week) will get benched. You know who was at fault there? Frostee Rucker. Way to go out on a limb guys.

 

[Young 8]

Having trouble deciding who is the coach that should be fired most, him or his old buddy Billick.

- Lewis- Billick

- Nolan

3 Stooges

http://www.tvcrazy.net/tvclassics/articles...ree-stooges.jpg

 

[redman]

Having trouble deciding who is the coach that should be fired most, him or his old buddy Billick.

Billick is the one that mystifies me. He's never delivered the offense that he was hired to deliver, and there's a very good argument that the Super Bowl win that that team got was in spite of his offensive contribution rather than because of it. He must have compromising pictures of the owner because I have no other explanation at this point.

 

[Schrute]

Now these Bengals may be limited, but its is really hard to fathom where they are at. 4-8 with a healthy Palmer? If this guy is back there next year, I'll be flummoxed.

I've been saying this for sometime now right here

 

[Da Guru]

Now these Bengals may be limited, but its is really hard to fathom where they are at. 4-8 with a healthy Palmer? If this guy is back there next year, I'll be flummoxed.

Marv is toast after the season. Lewis lost control of this team a long time ago.

 

[SSOG]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.

Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).

Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.

Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

in 3 of those 4 years, they didn't have a WINNING record, either.. they were .500...so to rephrase your post, "as HC of the Bungles for 5 seasons, Lewis posted ONLY ONE season with a WINNING record."

or, cynics would say

"with THAT much talent on offense, how could the Bungles have ONLY ONE winning season in the past 5 years?!?!

sorry, but the guy has GOT to go...he sucks..he has one of the BEST QB's in the NFL, two top 10 WR's and perhaps the best #3 WR in Chris Henry, and a SOLID running game..for the 'defensive' guru that M. Lewis was supposed to be, this is a sham.

he is to defenses what Brian Billick is to offenses..both are supposed to be 'gurus' , neither is worth a dime at this point..

Yes, in 3 of those 4 years, he didn't have a winning record. Doesn't matter. In the 12 years before Lewis showed up, Cincinnati's best record was 8-8. They achieved that ONCE in 12 years. Marvin Lewis's worst season to date is as good as the best season in a dozen years before he showed up. In the 12 years before Lewis showed up, Cinci averaged 4.58 wins per season. In the four seasons of the Lewis era, Cinci has averaged 8.75 wins per season. That's almost DOUBLE the previous total.I'm not saying that Lewis is a great coach, or a good coach, or that he doesn't deserve to be fired. I'm saying that this is why Lewis still has a job. And for the record, no, I don't think he deserves to get fired. Everyone's always enamored with the "next big thing" at coach, but look at all the hot coaching candidates recently. Saban flamed out, Spurrier flamed out, Butch Davis flamed out, Bobby Petrino is flaming out, so obviously college isn't the place to go. Cam Cameron flamed out, Mike McCarthy has been struggling, Kubiak still hasn't done anything, so big-name coordinators aren't a sure thing. Norv Turner is busy showing the world why retreads lost their job in the first place. Cincy is more likely to downgrade than upgrade when they let Lewis go, whether he's a great coach or not.

Besides, if you want to talk about defensive geniuses who earn a reputation for failing to create solid defenses on limited resources, why not start the discussion with Tony Dungy circa 2005?

 

[Phurfur]

I'm pretty sure that he looks like a great guy to a franchise that made winning four games look like a successful season for more than a decade.

Lifelong fan and he doesn't. Dave Shula and Coslet could do this well with the talent assembled. The front office did not spend in the past on players and facilities. Lewis was able to surround the core talent with questionable character guys that he could control for about 2 seasons. He has lost control of this team. It does not look like they respect him and his game day decision making. He has taken this team as far as he can. They are going to need someone else to take this team back to the top of the AFC North. The only thing that can save him and the situation is if Mike Brown hires a strong GM. He won't and he is probably too cheap to fire Lewis. The disfunctional family will be back next year with fewer overpaid vets and overpaid coordinators.

This is what I see too.

 

[Schrute]

I'm pretty sure that he looks like a great guy to a franchise that made winning four games look like a successful season for more than a decade.

Lifelong fan and he doesn't. Dave Shula and Coslet could do this well with the talent assembled. The front office did not spend in the past on players and facilities. Lewis was able to surround the core talent with questionable character guys that he could control for about 2 seasons. He has lost control of this team. It does not look like they respect him and his game day decision making. He has taken this team as far as he can. They are going to need someone else to take this team back to the top of the AFC North. The only thing that can save him and the situation is if Mike Brown hires a strong GM. He won't and he is probably too cheap to fire Lewis. The disfunctional family will be back next year with fewer overpaid vets and overpaid coordinators.

This is what I see too.

Agreed. Aside from all the off-field legal issues, there has been plenty of stuff on the field. CJ getting into fistfights with teammates and/or Lewis himself depending on who you believe. CJ and Palmer going at it on the sideline. The whole issue with the offensive tackle being pissed off and saying he was healthy when Lewis said he wasn't. It's one thing after another, and it's absurd.

 

[Judge Smails]

Let me see.

Underachieving with premier talent? - check

Neglible improvement on defense from a supposed defensive guru? - check

Undisciplined team on the field? - check

Train wreck off the field? - check

Dude should be fired - period. He just scowls at everyone else instead of looking in the mirror.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Now these Bengals may be limited, but its is really hard to fathom where they are at. 4-8 with a healthy Palmer? If this guy is back there next year, I'll be flummoxed.

Marv is toast after the season. Lewis lost control of this team a long time ago.

Unfamiliar with owner Mike Brown?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Lewis won't be fired anytime soon. Brown has been ridiculously loyal to his coaches and pocketbook -- it would be a shock of epic proportions if he were to let a coach go with any time left on his contract. Lewis is signed through 2010 and has been an asset to the community.I think it's reasonable to expect the following:1. No one year contract extension for Lewis this year, which Brown has done after every year Lewis has been the head coach IIRC.2. A number of defensive assistants will be gone. I'm not sure of their contract status, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Brown break his MO of not paying two sets of coaches in this instance.3. No new scouting or player development hires.Lewis would be firmly on the hot seat in most other places and, as knowledge dropper noted, most fans have now turned on the entire coaching staff. No improvement in players drafted on the defensive side of the ball, extremely questionable gameplanning and roster management and bad in-game management (which have been issues since the beginning) become much bigger issues when you don't win.

Great cliff's notes version of how the Bengals' franchise operates. Mike Brown is like the bizarro version of the Rooney family in Pittsburgh. He has some of their same superpowers: i.e. loyalty, hidebound conservatism, aversion to change, appreciation for old-timey football. Unfortunately, while the Rooney's use their football powers for good, Brown uses his only for evil. Over the last 20 years the Brown family's hallmark has been its lack of vision, lack of ingenuity, general backwardness, and most importantly, a knack for tight pursestrings on talent evaluation, talent acquisition, and coaching.

 

[WampusCat43]

It was their offense that killed them last night, and against Arizona, too. Lewis has done a good job getting us out of the dark ages, but it's time for someone else to pick up the ball. 4-8 against this schedule is ridiculous.

 

[SSOG]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.

Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).

Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.

Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

in 3 of those 4 years, they didn't have a WINNING record, either.. they were .500...so to rephrase your post, "as HC of the Bungles for 5 seasons, Lewis posted ONLY ONE season with a WINNING record."

or, cynics would say

"with THAT much talent on offense, how could the Bungles have ONLY ONE winning season in the past 5 years?!?!

sorry, but the guy has GOT to go...he sucks..he has one of the BEST QB's in the NFL, two top 10 WR's and perhaps the best #3 WR in Chris Henry, and a SOLID running game..for the 'defensive' guru that M. Lewis was supposed to be, this is a sham.

he is to defenses what Brian Billick is to offenses..both are supposed to be 'gurus' , neither is worth a dime at this point..

Yes, in 3 of those 4 years, he didn't have a winning record. Doesn't matter. In the 12 years before Lewis showed up, Cincinnati's best record was 8-8. They achieved that ONCE in 12 years. Marvin Lewis's worst season to date is as good as the best season in a dozen years before he showed up. In the 12 years before Lewis showed up, Cinci averaged 4.58 wins per season. In the four seasons of the Lewis era, Cinci has averaged 8.75 wins per season. That's almost DOUBLE the previous total.I'm not saying that Lewis is a great coach, or a good coach, or that he doesn't deserve to be fired. I'm saying that this is why Lewis still has a job. And for the record, no, I don't think he deserves to get fired. Everyone's always enamored with the "next big thing" at coach, but look at all the hot coaching candidates recently. Saban flamed out, Spurrier flamed out, Butch Davis flamed out, Bobby Petrino is flaming out, so obviously college isn't the place to go. Cam Cameron flamed out, Mike McCarthy has been struggling, Kubiak still hasn't done anything, so big-name coordinators aren't a sure thing. Norv Turner is busy showing the world why retreads lost their job in the first place. Cincy is more likely to downgrade than upgrade when they let Lewis go, whether he's a great coach or not.

Besides, if you want to talk about defensive geniuses who earn a reputation for failing to create solid defenses on limited resources, why not start the discussion with Tony Dungy circa 2005?

I'm going to amend this a bit. If the Bengals can get Schotty or Cowher, then Lewis should be gone. Otherwise, I think any coaching candidate on the market is every bit as likely to be a step down from Lewis as a step up- if not moreso.

 

[moondawg]

Cowher would never work for Mike Brown. Everything about that franchise screams cheap.

 

[Babbabooey]

Lewis won't be fired anytime soon. Brown has been ridiculously loyal to his coaches and pocketbook -- it would be a shock of epic proportions if he were to let a coach go with any time left on his contract. Lewis is signed through 2010 and has been an asset to the community.I think it's reasonable to expect the following:1. No one year contract extension for Lewis this year, which Brown has done after every year Lewis has been the head coach IIRC.2. A number of defensive assistants will be gone. I'm not sure of their contract status, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Brown break his MO of not paying two sets of coaches in this instance.3. No new scouting or player development hires.Lewis would be firmly on the hot seat in most other places and, as knowledge dropper noted, most fans have now turned on the entire coaching staff. No improvement in players drafted on the defensive side of the ball, extremely questionable gameplanning and roster management and bad in-game management (which have been issues since the beginning) become much bigger issues when you don't win.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Dead, spot on. The in-gameplanning put forth by this coaching staff week in and week out is hideous. No adjustments, ever. They look the best they will all game on both sides of the ball the first series of the game. It's all downhill from there. The Bengals staff needs to look across town and take some notes from Brian Kelley and his staff @ UC. Cinci homer here, listening to it every day on the squawk box, Marvin won't go anywhere until he decides he wants to go somewhere, or at the end of his contract, whichever comes first. It wouldn't be surprising to see Mike Nolan offered a DC gig here in Cinci if SFran cuts him loose at season end. Accomplished defensive coordinator, as a man and a coach he fits the Brown family mold to a T, not to mention the connection to the Ravens D and Marvin. I'm not sure Nolan is a prime HC candidate anywhere other than nowhere, but give him 3 years and he'd look a lot like Mike Brown on the sidelines...

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

How to not get fired by a professional football franchise in two easy steps.Step 1: Take over a team coming off of 6 straight losing seasons (and 11 losing seasons in 12 years).Step 2: Go four straight years without a losing record.Any other questions while we're at it? If you want, we can discuss why Tony Dungy still has a job, and why Matt Cassell hasn't beaten out Tom Brady for the starting QB job yet, too.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Still think the whole thread is academic. Brown will definitely give Marvin one more year, but I do think that a losing season would put a fork in him. However, a loss to the Dolphins that was in even poorer form than this SF loss MIGHT be the only thing that I could see changing that equation.

-QG