How Dumb Can GMs and Scouts Be? (1 Viewer)

[drew]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

 

[jurb26]

Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....

 

[Mole]

Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....

Why didn't they take John Abraham and the #4 then

 

[gang-wars]

Bush wasn't the unanimous #1 player in the draft. In fact from what I've read, the split was 50/50 among GMs who the #1 player was.

They needed D more, and when with Mario.

What's the big deal?

Oh. The massive USC/Media/Bush hype machine. Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better.

They are 1a and 1b. And depending who you talk to, you'll get a different order. So they needed D more, took Mario. All this "controversy" is media created. Lots of people with no other sport to watch, are all over the NFL draft like it's the next best thing to the SB. Ignore the talking heads like Salisbury and Irvin, they are puppets.

And personally, I side with the Mario group. Bush couldn't even get on the field during 4th and 1 in the biggest game of the year. I can't see Edge, LT, LJ, SA sitting on the sidelines during a SB 4th and 1. So if Bush couldn't convince USC staff he could get the hard yard, why should we think he can do it in the NFL?

As for "Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....". If they would have taken Bush, they would have had the player who took "half the carries".

 

[jurb26]

Bush wasn't the unanimous #1 player in the draft. In fact from what I've read, the split was 50/50 among GMs who the #1 player was.

They needed D more, and when with Mario.

What's the big deal?

Oh. The massive USC/Media/Bush hype machine. Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better.

They are 1a and 1b. And depending who you talk to, you'll get a different order. So they needed D more, took Mario. All this "controversy" is media created. Lots of people with no other sport to watch, are all over the NFL draft like it's the next best thing to the SB. Ignore the talking heads like Salisbury and Irvin, they are puppets.

And personally, I side with the Mario group. Bush couldn't even get on the field during 4th and 1 in the biggest game of the year. I can't see Edge, LT, LJ, SA sitting on the sidelines during a SB 4th and 1. So if Bush couldn't convince USC staff he could get the hard yard, why should we think he can do it in the NFL?

As for "Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....". If they would have taken Bush, they would have had the player who took "half the carries".

 

[drew]

Bush wasn't the unanimous #1 player in the draft. In fact from what I've read, the split was 50/50 among GMs who the #1 player was.

They needed D more, and when with Mario.

What's the big deal?

Oh. The massive USC/Media/Bush hype machine. Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better.

They are 1a and 1b. And depending who you talk to, you'll get a different order. So they needed D more, took Mario. All this "controversy" is media created. Lots of people with no other sport to watch, are all over the NFL draft like it's the next best thing to the SB. Ignore the talking heads like Salisbury and Irvin, they are puppets.

And personally, I side with the Mario group. Bush couldn't even get on the field during 4th and 1 in the biggest game of the year. I can't see Edge, LT, LJ, SA sitting on the sidelines during a SB 4th and 1. So if Bush couldn't convince USC staff he could get the hard yard, why should we think he can do it in the NFL?

As for "Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....". If they would have taken Bush, they would have had the player who took "half the carries".

"Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better."This is exactly my point. How the hell can 1/2 the league actually believe that Williams is as good as Bush. He's not, and it's not even close. I don't claim to be a scout, but when something is so ####### obvious, I have no compunction about saying it. I am not basing my views on what the pundits say, rather just my lying eyes. And the reason that Bush wasn't on the field in the Rose Bowl seems to be attributable to his coach Pete "Fredo" Carroll being another idiot that people think is great, rather than him not being good enough to get the ball.

 

[Mahoney]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner. Their defense and O-Line stink. They made the right move by not taking Bush. No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years. How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do. When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

 

[jurb26]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner. Their defense and O-Line stink. They made the right move by not taking Bush. No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years. How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do. When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they have coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is what coaches should do. Draft BPA and adapt.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

Casserly is an idiot

You could've stopped right there...

 

[Bri]

I think Bush has just surpassed TO and set a FBG thread # record.

 

[Donnybrook]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner. Their defense and O-Line stink. They made the right move by not taking Bush. No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years. How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do. When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

Great post. I agree.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

How dumb can GM's be? You are the one quoting Merrill Hoge. What does that say about you?

 

[Mad Cow]

Bush wasn't the unanimous #1 player in the draft. In fact from what I've read, the split was 50/50 among GMs who the #1 player was.

They needed D more, and when with Mario.

What's the big deal?

Oh. The massive USC/Media/Bush hype machine. Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better.

They are 1a and 1b. And depending who you talk to, you'll get a different order. So they needed D more, took Mario. All this "controversy" is media created. Lots of people with no other sport to watch, are all over the NFL draft like it's the next best thing to the SB. Ignore the talking heads like Salisbury and Irvin, they are puppets.

And personally, I side with the Mario group. Bush couldn't even get on the field during 4th and 1 in the biggest game of the year. I can't see Edge, LT, LJ, SA sitting on the sidelines during a SB 4th and 1. So if Bush couldn't convince USC staff he could get the hard yard, why should we think he can do it in the NFL?

As for "Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....". If they would have taken Bush, they would have had the player who took "half the carries".

"Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better."This is exactly my point. How the hell can 1/2 the league actually believe that Williams is as good as Bush. He's not, and it's not even close. I don't claim to be a scout, but when something is so ####### obvious, I have no compunction about saying it. I am not basing my views on what the pundits say, rather just my lying eyes. And the reason that Bush wasn't on the field in the Rose Bowl seems to be attributable to his coach Pete "Fredo" Carroll being another idiot that people think is great, rather than him not being good enough to get the ball.

What are you, like 12?

 

[LTsharks]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

How dumb can GM's be? You are the one quoting Merrill Hoge. What does that say about you?

Merrill Hoge

 

[drew]

How dumb can GM's be? You are the one quoting Merrill Hoge. What does that say about you?

I wasn't quoting Merrill Hoge. It was just shorthand for the laundry list of negatives on Young that I believe have merit.

 

[Mahoney]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses.  More specifically they had great defensive lines. 

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner.  Their defense and O-Line stink.  They made the right move by not taking Bush.  No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years.  How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do.  When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots.  Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they haev coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is waht coaches shold do. Draft BPA and adapt.

So you are already assuming Kubiak sucks?If BPA is such a sound strategy, why is it always the same teams drafting in the first half of the first round? Because real football is different than FFL, that is why.

 

[jurb26]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner. Their defense and O-Line stink. They made the right move by not taking Bush. No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years. How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do. When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they haev coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is waht coaches shold do. Draft BPA and adapt.

So you are already assuming Kubiak sucks?If BPA is such a sound strategy, why is it always the same teams drafting in the first half of the first round? Because real football is different than FFL, that is why.

Maybe becasue they are drafting for need and sacrificing better football players to do so.

 

[Bri]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses.  More specifically they had great defensive lines. 

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner.  Their defense and O-Line stink.  They made the right move by not taking Bush.  No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years.  How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do.  When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots.  Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they haev coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is waht coaches shold do. Draft BPA and adapt.

So you are already assuming Kubiak sucks?If BPA is such a sound strategy, why is it always the same teams drafting in the first half of the first round? Because real football is different than FFL, that is why.

There's pros and cons to each when you're building a team with little to offer. For example, if BPA is a RB but a GM believes a franchise Tackle is the way to build a team...so what? That's fine it's worked before. One pick won't "change the world" there's a ton more players on the team. If team gets a piece to the puzzle, that's a success.The average player plays 4 years so most of this year's draftees will be gone before 2010. To find a "piece" that'll play til 2014 is a good pick. Even if it's a special teams ace or a K.

 

[Bri]

Maybe becasue they are drafting for need and sacrificing better football players to do so.

Suppose(just suppose) Mario gets 20 sacks 3 years in a row and ties the NFL record for sacks. Bush averages 20 TDs and gets a ton of rushing yards. Suppose D'Brick desn't allow a sack for 5 years and his RB runs for 1300 all five years. Does it matter which guy your team took?

 

[drew]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

 

[jurb26]

Maybe becasue they are drafting for need and sacrificing better football players to do so.

Suppose(just suppose) Mario gets 20 sacks 3 years in a row and ties the NFL record for sacks. Bush averages 20 TDs and gets a ton of rushing yards. Suppose D'Brick desn't allow a sack for 5 years and his RB runs for 1300 all five years. Does it matter which guy your team took?

There are still very distinct ramifications as to how the players are getting this success and how they are impacting the overall team. For instance are they Randy Moss and putting up these types of number dispite doube and triple teams and thus making life and success that much easier for the eniter unit they play with. Or are they DD or LJ and really just riding the wave off success that the scheme and other players on the unit provide. This is how talent impacts the game. There is no way to possibly answer this question.

 

[Mahoney]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses.  More specifically they had great defensive lines. 

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner.  Their defense and O-Line stink.  They made the right move by not taking Bush.  No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years.  How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do.  When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots.  Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they haev coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is waht coaches shold do. Draft BPA and adapt.

So you are already assuming Kubiak sucks?If BPA is such a sound strategy, why is it always the same teams drafting in the first half of the first round? Because real football is different than FFL, that is why.

Maybe becasue they are drafting for need and sacrificing better football players to do so.

That's a ridiculous argument and here is why: because their "needs" are not only substantial, but they are also vital to being a good team. Would you be second guessing if the Bears had the first pick and took Ferguson at #1? Because that is a substantial need for that team.....and D. Davis is better than Cedric Benson is.I do see a light on....but really, is anyone home?

 

[Mad Cow]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams, and it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

So does Reggie tip you when you are done?

 

[jurb26]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans have a very good running back and an excellent kick returner. Their defense and O-Line stink. They made the right move by not taking Bush. No question.

If they drafted a RB just because he was the "sexiest" guy on the board they'd be traveling down the same road the Lions have the last 5 years. How's that working out?

You draft the best talent when you have alot of good palyers on both sides.....like the Patriots, Colts, and Steelers do. When you are good at those positions and terrible at others where there are blue chip can't miss prospects, you are asking to make the same pick the next year. If you aren't trying to strengthen where you need it....because you are a tard that knee-jerks to the talking heads, then you are an idiot.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

The worse your team is, the MORE you need to go BPA. I believe you have it backwards. The only reason the Pats can do it and get away with it is becasue they haev coaching staffs that are good enough to utilize the talents of their players... which is waht coaches shold do. Draft BPA and adapt.

So you are already assuming Kubiak sucks?If BPA is such a sound strategy, why is it always the same teams drafting in the first half of the first round? Because real football is different than FFL, that is why.

Maybe becasue they are drafting for need and sacrificing better football players to do so.

That's a ridiculous argument and here is why: because their "needs" are not only substantial, but they are also vital to being a good team. Would you be second guessing if the Bears had the first pick and took Ferguson at #1? Because that is a substantial need for that team.....and D. Davis is better than Cedric Benson is.I do see a light on....but really, is anyone home?

If you cant see how being the worse team in the league directly relates to also having the most holes to fill and thus increases the probability that you would be most successfull to go BPA then I think I should be asking you this: I do see a light on....but really, is anyone home?BTW, I really can't falut the Hou management for taking Williams if they really do see him as the BPA. I don't agree with it nor do I think many scouts do and I'm rather certian that they just wanted an easier guy to sign. If they feel he is the BPA though, good for them.

 

[Pots]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

You're an idiot.

 

[Mahoney]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

Drew,Two questions:

1.) How many NC State games did you watch this year?

2.) How is upgrading your RB1 slot from a definite B to an potential A, instead of upgrading at DE or LT from F to potential B or A not a smart move?

Granted, if Williams turns out to be Courtney Brown instead of Julius Peppers, you may be right. But who is to say rather than Marshall Faulk, Mr. Bush isn't Ki-Jana Carter, Rashann Salaam, or Curtis Enis?

Alright, I guess that was 3 questions.

 

[gang-wars]

Bush wasn't the unanimous #1 player in the draft. In fact from what I've read, the split was 50/50 among GMs who the #1 player was.

They needed D more, and when with Mario.

What's the big deal?

Oh. The massive USC/Media/Bush hype machine. Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better.

They are 1a and 1b. And depending who you talk to, you'll get a different order. So they needed D more, took Mario. All this "controversy" is media created. Lots of people with no other sport to watch, are all over the NFL draft like it's the next best thing to the SB. Ignore the talking heads like Salisbury and Irvin, they are puppets.

And personally, I side with the Mario group. Bush couldn't even get on the field during 4th and 1 in the biggest game of the year. I can't see Edge, LT, LJ, SA sitting on the sidelines during a SB 4th and 1. So if Bush couldn't convince USC staff he could get the hard yard, why should we think he can do it in the NFL?

As for "Hou likes players who only show up for half the season.....". If they would have taken Bush, they would have had the player who took "half the carries".

"Hate to break it to you, but most of the NFL doesn't think Bush is the best player to come into the league in the last 10 years. Otherwise 1/2 the league wouldn't think Mario is better."This is exactly my point. How the hell can 1/2 the league actually believe that Williams is as good as Bush. He's not, and it's not even close. I don't claim to be a scout, but when something is so ####### obvious, I have no compunction about saying it. I am not basing my views on what the pundits say, rather just my lying eyes. And the reason that Bush wasn't on the field in the Rose Bowl seems to be attributable to his coach Pete "Fredo" Carroll being another idiot that people think is great, rather than him not being good enough to get the ball.

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot. And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.

 

[Bri]

was a good discussion til the chest thumping

thanks jurb

 

[drew]

Drew,

Two questions:

1.) How many NC State games did you watch this year?

2.) How is upgrading your RB1 slot from a definite B to an potential A, instead of upgrading at DE or LT from F to potential B or A not a smart move?

Granted, if Williams turns out to be Courtney Brown instead of Julius Peppers, you may be right. But who is to say rather than Marshall Faulk, Mr. Bush isn't Ki-Jana Carter, Rashann Salaam, or Curtis Enis?

Alright, I guess that was 3 questions.

1. Not a lot--maybe 2. But I have watched tape of him, and I watched a lot of games of Reggie Bush. It is clear to me that Reggie Bush is a great player--he's not going to be a Ki-Jana Carter, Rashaan Salaam or Curtis Enis.

2. I agree that it would make more sense for the Texans to take a de over rb based on their needs assuming the rb and de are fairly equal. But Bush and Williams aren't fairly equal--this is where I depart from all of the "experts." Reggie Bush is about as can't miss as you can get. The only potential problem besides injury or scandal with him is whether he can handle the beating of a 300+ carry season. Even if he carries the ball only 250 times, I think he will be one of the best players around and will make the Texans better than Williams will.

 

[drew]

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot.

And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.



So you are telling me that you think Casserly and Carroll aren't idiots. I thought this message board was for people to have opinions. My opinion shouldn't be given any credit because I am not a GM? What about yours? On the merits, you think that Williams is a better pick than Bush?

 

[gang-wars]

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot.

And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.

So you are telling me that you think Casserly and Carroll aren't idiots. I thought this message board was for people to have opinions. My opinion shouldn't be given any credit because I am not a GM? What about yours? On the merits, you think that Williams is a better pick than Bush?



I said 1/2 the GMs. I like how you changed that to one.

And no, I don't think half the teams in the NFL are idiots for having Mario #1.

See unlike you, I don't go around calling people idiots. I'll assume that GMs/Scouts know more then me about judging talent. I might disagree with them, but I'm not going to call them idiots.

Clearly it's up for debate who is better. Clearly the Texans needed D more then a RB. It's not really that big of a deal. You're ranting and raving like the Texans just passed on your son for the 1st pick. It's okay. In a few weeks, this will all seem fairly silly. =)

 

[Hendo]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

bush is not the best the best RB to ever come out of college .the Reggie Bush hype in here is getting over-drawn all over the place.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I agree that if they were actually gonna use the pick, then Bush was prolly a better choice than Williams, but they were far better off trading it. Who knows, maybe they still will.

Casserly is an idiot

You could've stopped right there...

Actually, he should've stopped right there, 'cause it all went to hell after that.

First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy.

First you use Hoge's reasoning to say Young won't be "that good", then you say the notion that Leinart might drop is "crazy". Need I remind you who is out there spouting off to anyone who'll listen that Leinart is no better than a 3rd round talent? That's right, your buddy Merrill Hoge.

 

[Bevo]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

How dumb can GM's be? You are the one quoting Merrill Hoge. What does that say about you?

EXACTLY what I was thinking. I can't believe that ANYONE would use that brain dead ######## to buttress they argument. It appears that birds of a feather do indeed flock....

 

[WhoDat]

I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.

Oh, it is really close...really close. Williams human tangibles for a man of his size were not that different from Bush's. Williams is a physical freak. In relative terms...on paper...they are not that far apart.

Second, it is about signaibility. McNair made it very clear...VERY CLEAR...he would have the #1 pick wrapped up; signed and delivered before Saturday at noon. He was not going to **** around for lack of a better phrase with the contract, player or player management. McNair wanted it done. Period. Bush, his family and management or lack thereof made it very clear that signing on the line that is dotted might not....would not... happen with the Texans.

Third, why use your first overall pick on a player that is or could get hit with several lawsuits of indirect and direct nature, while potentially fumbling his Heisman and costing his colllege program a number of games? Why invest that much money in that MASSIVE headache and inherit all the heartache and bad press?

This was a business decision, first, and football decision, second.

 

[Dave Baker]

I appreciate the feelings that Bush is overhyped, and I like Williams, but in reality, Williams is even less proven than Bush. He's been inconsistent for much of his college career and if not for tremendous measureables, it's unlikely he goes to Houston at #1.

As I've said before and will say again, Houston has made a mistake. Williams is legit, but Bush is a superstar. Houston lives to regret this. If Williams = Peppers, I am wrong, almost no matter how good Bush ends up because I think a great DE is more valuable than a great RB. I just think Williams is less likely than Bush to live up to expectation.

 

[Mahoney]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

 

[Dave Baker]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo?

Are you really comparing Bush to McGahee? While I love McGahee, the comparison does not make much sense. They are completely different players.

 

[Mahoney]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs.  37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs.  27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo?

Are you really comparing Bush to McGahee? While I love McGahee, the comparison does not make much sense. They are completely different players.

2002 memory down?

 

[drew]

I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.

Oh, it is really close...really close. Williams human tangibles for a man of his size were not that different from Bush's. Williams is a physical freak. In relative terms...on paper...they are not that far apart.

Second, it is about signaibility. McNair made it very clear...VERY CLEAR...he would have the #1 pick wrapped up; signed and delivered before Saturday at noon. He was not going to **** around for lack of a better phrase with the contract, player or player management. McNair wanted it done. Period. Bush, his family and management or lack thereof made it very clear that signing on the line that is dotted might not....would not... happen with the Texans.

Third, why use your first overall pick on a player that is or could get hit with several lawsuits of indirect and direct nature, while potentially fumbling his Heisman and costing his colllege program a number of games? Why invest that much money in that MASSIVE headache and inherit all the heartache and bad press?

This was a business decision, first, and football decision, second.

Finally, a cogent argument. I don't think it is that close on paper, but I agree with the other concerns. The only problem is that Casserly said that the decision was purely football based. I don't believe it (I can't because it doesn't make sense). But that is what he said.Interestingly, I would think with Bush's house problems that he would be more amenable to signing quickly so that he has some cash to pay off debts that have been piling up and also to avoid even worse press for holding out. Also, according to Mortensen and others, the Texans didn't give Bush a chance to make a deal, as they hadn't contacted Bush in over a day.

 

[gang-wars]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

Yeah the talk about Bush the best college RB ever is a joke. He's not even in the top 5. I'm not sure top 10. You can blame White for stealing 50 tds.But you'd think the GREATEST college RB would be in the GAME on a 4th and 1 in the Rose Bowl. So wait, he's the greatest college RB ever, but he sat and watched White get the crucial carry? White got the bulk of the RZ carries? Seems like the greatest college RB ever sure sat on the bench while White scored TD after TD. And White isn't even a 1st round pick?

Bush is a product of the internet revolution. Media hype. 24/7 networks. Football craze. College football is hotter then ever. So the stars will get over hyped. I believe Bush will be good, but to call him the best thing coming into the league the last 10 years, is a joke.

 

[WhoDat]

I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.

Oh, it is really close...really close. Williams human tangibles for a man of his size were not that different from Bush's. Williams is a physical freak. In relative terms...on paper...they are not that far apart.

Second, it is about signaibility. McNair made it very clear...VERY CLEAR...he would have the #1 pick wrapped up; signed and delivered before Saturday at noon. He was not going to **** around for lack of a better phrase with the contract, player or player management. McNair wanted it done. Period. Bush, his family and management or lack thereof made it very clear that signing on the line that is dotted might not....would not... happen with the Texans.

Third, why use your first overall pick on a player that is or could get hit with several lawsuits of indirect and direct nature, while potentially fumbling his Heisman and costing his colllege program a number of games? Why invest that much money in that MASSIVE headache and inherit all the heartache and bad press?

This was a business decision, first, and football decision, second.

Finally, a cogent argument. I don't think it is that close on paper, but I agree with the other concerns. The only problem is that Casserly said that the decision was purely football based. I don't believe it (I can't because it doesn't make sense). But that is what he said.Interestingly, I would think with Bush's house problems that he would be more amenable to signing quickly so that he has some cash to pay off debts that have been piling up and also to avoid even worse press for holding out. Also, according to Mortensen and others, the Texans didn't give Bush a chance to make a deal, as they hadn't contacted Bush in over a day.

Bullsh....This decision had as much to do with football operations away from the field as it did with results on Sunday.

 

[gang-wars]

I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.

Oh, it is really close...really close. Williams human tangibles for a man of his size were not that different from Bush's. Williams is a physical freak. In relative terms...on paper...they are not that far apart.

Second, it is about signaibility. McNair made it very clear...VERY CLEAR...he would have the #1 pick wrapped up; signed and delivered before Saturday at noon. He was not going to **** around for lack of a better phrase with the contract, player or player management. McNair wanted it done. Period. Bush, his family and management or lack thereof made it very clear that signing on the line that is dotted might not....would not... happen with the Texans.

Third, why use your first overall pick on a player that is or could get hit with several lawsuits of indirect and direct nature, while potentially fumbling his Heisman and costing his colllege program a number of games? Why invest that much money in that MASSIVE headache and inherit all the heartache and bad press?

This was a business decision, first, and football decision, second.

Finally, a cogent argument. I don't think it is that close on paper, but I agree with the other concerns. The only problem is that Casserly said that the decision was purely football based. I don't believe it (I can't because it doesn't make sense). But that is what he said.Interestingly, I would think with Bush's house problems that he would be more amenable to signing quickly so that he has some cash to pay off debts that have been piling up and also to avoid even worse press for holding out. Also, according to Mortensen and others, the Texans didn't give Bush a chance to make a deal, as they hadn't contacted Bush in over a day.

Cogent argument. *LOL*You've pretty much called everyone who disagrees with your Bush man crush an idiot.

 

[Dave Baker]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs.  37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs.  27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo?

Are you really comparing Bush to McGahee? While I love McGahee, the comparison does not make much sense. They are completely different players.

2002 memory down?

I'll rephrase in a way easier for you to respond. Are you comparing Bush to McGahee? If so, in what way? Are they similar in your opinion in a significant fashion? If so, please describe.If you believe them to be similar RBs, I am interested in hearing why. If not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[WhoDat]

Yeah the talk about Bush the best college RB ever is a joke.

From what I have been told, which maybe could be confirmed by Chaos Commish given his contacts, Bush came pretty damn close to a perfect pre draft score card.Commish, care to comment? I remember hearing you had kin folk at the pro day.

 

[Dave Baker]

But you'd think the GREATEST college RB would be in the GAME on a 4th and 1 in the Rose Bowl. So wait, he's the greatest college RB ever, but he sat and watched White get the crucial carry?

This argument has been debunked about as often as the argument that the Pentagon was attacked by a missile and not a plane. While many still believe it's validity, it doesn't make any less laughable.

 

[EBF]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

Different players. McGahee never had anywhere near the receiving skills that Bush has (although he ran with more power).

 

[RKMoney]

Casserly is an idiot for taking Williams over Bush, and those who say it makes sense are also idiots. I value good defense just as much as good offense, but Reggie Bush is all-world and Mario Williams just has a lot of potential--Reggie White my ###!

Another thing, if the Jets can't get Bush in a trade, they would be crazy to pass on Leinart if available. First, I don't think Vince Young will be that good for all the reasons Merill Hoge has stated. Second, the notion that Leinart's arm is not strong enough and so he should drop out of the top ten is crazy. Leinart has enough arm strength and he knows how to win. He also is very polished and accurate. I am not saying that he is going to be a Hall-of-Famer, but I do think he will be extremely good. How many times have so-called experts favored a guy with arm-strength over an accurate qb and been totally wrong (Ryan Leaf, Kyle Boller, Patrick Ramsay). As long as a qb has a threshold level of arm strength (not a wimp like Danny Wuerfel or post-injury Chad Pennington), he will be fine if accurate (Steve Young). Don't overthink. It gets GMs in trouble.

Casserly will go down as one of the most idotic pieces of #### GM in our modern era. You can look look at EVERY year and how bad he ####ed up the draft. This year will take the cake and I could seriously do Casserly's job better than he has to this point.

 

[KornKrackedJimy]

Tim couch...Akili Smith...Tony Mandarick...screw it. Dumbest question ever

All-Time No. 1 Draft Picks

All-Time No. 1 Draft Picks

Year Player, Pos. School Team Years Played Pro Bowls

1936 Jay Berwanger, hb Chicago Philadelphia DNP -

1937 Sam Francis, fb Nebraska Philadelphia 4 0

1938 Corbett Davis, fb Indiana Clev. Rams DNP -

1939 Ki Aldrich, c Texas Christrian Chi. Cardinals 7 2

1940 George Cafego, hb Tennessee Chi. Cardinals 4 0

1941 Tom Harmon, hb Michigan Chi. Bears 2 0

1942 *Bill Dudley, hb Virginia Pittsburgh 9 3

1943 Frank Sinkwich, hb Georgia Detroit 4 0

1944 Angelo Bertelli, qb Notre Dame Boston Yanks 3 0

1945 *Charley Trippi, hb Georgia Chi. Cardinals 9 2

1946 Frank Dancewicz, qb Notre Dame Boston 3 0

1947 Bob Fenimore, hb Oklahoma State Chicago 1 0

1948 Harry Gilmer, qb Alabama Washington 2 0

1949 *Chuck Bednarik, c/lb Pennsylvania Philadelphia 12 8

1950 Leon Hart, e Notre Dame Detroit 8 1

1951 Kyle Rote, hb SMU N.Y. Giants 11 4

1952 Bill Wade, qb Vanderbilt L.A. Rams 13 2

1953 Harry Babcock, e Georgia San Francisco 3 3

1954 Bobby Garrett, qb Stanford Cleveland 1 0

1955 George Shaw, qb Oregon Baltimore 8 0

1956 Gary Glick, db Colorado A&M Pittsburgh 7 0

1957 *Paul Hornung, hb Notre Dame Green Bay 9 2

1958 King Hill, qb Rice Chi. Cardinals 12 0

1959 Randy Duncan, qb Iowa Green Bay 1 0

1960 Billy Cannon, rb Lousiana State Los Angeles 11 2

1961 Tommy Mason, rb Tulane Minnesota (N) 11 3

1961 Ken Rice, g Auburn Buffalo (A) 6 1

1962 Ernie Davis, rb Syracuse Washington (N) DNP -

1962 Roman Gabriel, qb N. Carolina State Oakland (A) 16 4

1963 Terry Baker, qb Oregon State L.A. Rams (N) 3 0

1963 *Buck Buchanan, dt Grambling Kansas City (A) 13 8

1964 Dave Parks, wr Texas Tech San Francisco (N) 10 3

1964 Jack Concannon, qb Boston College Bos. Patriots (A) 10 0

1965 T. Frederickson, rb Auburn N.Y. Giants (N) 6 1

1965 Lawrence Elkins, wr Baylor Houston (A) 2 0

1966 Tommy Nobis, lb Texas Atlanta (N) 11 5

1966 Jim Grabowski, rb Illinois Miami (A) 6 0

1967 Bubba Smith, de Michigan State Baltimore 9 2

1968 *Ron Yary, ot Southern Cal. Minnesota 15 7

1969 *O.J. Simpson, rb Southern Cal. Buffalo 11 6

1970 *Terry Bradshaw, qb Louisana Tech Pittsburgh 14 3

1971 Jim Plunkett, qb Stanford New England 15 0

1972 Walt Patulski, dt Notre Dame Buffalo 5 0

1973 John Matuszak, de Tampa Houston 9 0

1974 Ed 'Too Tall' Jones, de Tennessee State Dallas 15 3

1975 Steve Bartkowski, qb California Atlanta 12 2

1976 *Lee Roy Selmon, de Oklahoma Tampa Bay 9 6

1977 Ricky Bell, rb Southern Cal Tampa Bay 6 0

1978 *Earl Campbell, rb Texas Houston 8 5

1979 Tom Cousineau, lb Ohio State Buffalo 6 0

1980 Billy Sims, rb Oklahoma Detroit 5 3

1981 George Rogers, rb South Carolina New Orleans 7 2

1982 Kenneth Sims, dt Texas New England 8 0

1983 *John Elway, qb Stanford Baltimore 16 10

1984 Irving Fryar, wr Nebraska New England 15 5

1985 Bruce Smith, de Virginia Tech Buffalo 18 11

1986 Bo Jackson, rb Auburn Tampa Bay 4 1

1987 Vinny Testaverde, qb Miami, (Fla.) Tampa Bay 19 2

1988 Aundray Bruce, lb Auburn Atlanta 11 0

1989 Troy Aikman, qb UCLA Dallas 12 6

1990 Jeff George, qb Illinois Indianapolis 13 0

1991 Russell Maryland, dt Miami, (Fla.) Dallas 10 1

1992 Steve Emtman, dt Washington Indianapolis 8 0

1993 Drew Bledsoe, qb Washington State New England 13 4

1994 Dan Wilkinson, dt Ohio State Cincinnati 12 0

1995 Ki-Jana Carter, rb Penn State Cincinnati 8 0

1996 Keyshawn Johnson, wr Southern Cal. N.Y. Jets 10 4

1997 Orlando Pace, ot Ohio State St. Louis Rams 9 7

1998 Peyton Manning, qb Tennessee Indianapolis 8 6

1999 Tim Couch, qb Kentucky Cleveland 6 0

2000 Courtney Brown, de Penn State Cleveland 6 0

2001 Michael Vick, qb Virginia Tech Atlanta 5 3

2002 David Carr, qb Fresno State Houston 4 0

2003 Carson Palmer, qb Southern Cal. Cincinnati 3 1

2004 Eli Manning, qb Mississippi San Diego 2 0

2005 Alex Smith, qb Utah San Francisco 1 0

 

[RKMoney]

David Carr + Mario Williams = first organization to draft two busts withing 5 years. Congrats Casserly, your garbage!