How Dumb Can GMs and Scouts Be? (1 Viewer)

[Wildman]

None of the last 6 Super Bowl Champions have had a "Bush-like talent" at a skilled position on their offense and all of them had excellent defenses. More specifically they had great defensive lines.

The Texans aren't idiots. Today.

Emmitt Smith got the ring 3x's in the 90's, Marshall Faulk helped the Rams get to the SB twice--winning once, and Jamal Lewis (yes, the Ravens defense was a big part but Lewis controlled the clock and helped make the opposing offense one dimensional). I agree it takes more than an RB to take a team to the SB, but to say one defensive player makes a difference is not any more logical of an argument. We need to stop thinking there is one system for success. There are several ways to build a winner. Bush is a great player and if the team that picks him is smart enough to acquire talent around him will be in great shape to contend for years.

 

[Loopdog]

i dont know why people even listen to the so called draft experts

how many guys this week said it was a "lock" that Reggie Bush would go number 1

said they had inside information and blah blah blah

ummm, no you dont

just like AJ Hawk going to the Packers. EVERY mock draft I've seen has him going to Green Bay, but who knows who is gonna go there.

Sit back and watch the draft.

Im in the boat that the Texans made the right choice

I dont think Reggie Bush is gonna be that good in the pro's

He'll be good, like Brian Westbrook, not like LaDanian Tomlinson

he's in for a rude awakening when he realizes there arent 8 yard wide holes to run through and that LB's are just as fast as he is.

 

[cstu]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

2005 your first year watching football?

 

[Z-Dog]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

You think those are comparable seasons? You think Bush's 8.7 ypc is not all that difference from McGahee's 6.2?

 

[Lobo237]

Bush isn't the can't miss prospect that some people are making him out to be. The fact is in the Rose Bowl Bush did look mortal. USC relied more heavily on White throughout the game which does raise flags. Bush is a phenomonal talent when he can get to the edge and create in space, but he isn't a guy you want to pound it between the tackles with. In the right system he probably will be a success, but he does have questions to answer, most notably can he handle 300+ touches in the course of a season? How's he going to handle the speed of NFL defenses as opposed to the college d's he faced?

Williams does have his share of questions as well, but as far as measurables go he's every bit as impressive as Bush albeit on the opposite side of the ball. Now the impact of a truly great rb vs a great de is debatable. A lot does depend on the supporting cast and the system they end up in, but the greats at either posistion do have a way of making their teammates better. A good rb can ease things on the passing game and is capable of creating big plays far easier than anyone else on offense, but rb's do have concerns with regards to their longevity. In the few short years I've played fantasy football I've watched Marshall Faulk go from fantasy god to late round flyer. If Bush is the next Sanders or Sayers how long is he going to stay on top? A dominant de can draw double teams and make rushing the passer easier for their teammates. One of the reasons the Panthers d is so succesful is that their front 4 are capable of getting a lot of pressure on opposing qb's by themselves so they don't need to blitz their lb's as often. They also tend to last on average longer than rb's.

You can't simply evaluate whether or not the Texans made a bad choice of Williams over Bush based on thier individual stats. You also have to look at the impact they each have on their units as a whole.

 

[Rovers]

In the past twenty years, no RB taken in the top five ever won a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him, with the exception of Tony Dorsett, who went to the Cowboys with a "traded" pick, and they were coming off a Super Bowl loss the year before.

 

[Padraig]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs.  37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs.  27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo?  Very comparable seasons.  Both went 1-1 in Title games.  If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago.  McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was.  You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what?  Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

You think those are comparable seasons? You think Bush's 8.7 ypc is not all that difference from McGahee's 6.2?

I think he's comparing Buffalo taking McGahee when they had other needs,like alot of people wanted Houston to do with Bush, not comparing Willis to Reggie as players. I agree with him.Back to the main topic..BPA is great,but not when you have glaring needs elsewhere. You should always fill a hole AND get value for the pick.Williams at 1.01 is not a reach and it fills a need.

Bush is an upgrade over Davis,but like someone said,upgrading from a B to an A at RB and leaving holes on both lines wont win any more games.

Houstons best bet was trading down and getting Ferguson,but Im sure they tried and couldnt get a deal that guaranteed theyd get him,so they made the next best move.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Seriously, this is all just amazing to me. 9 months ago just about everyone believed that Matt Leinart was the clear cut #1 overall in this draft. Fast forward a couple of months and people are talking about how either Lendale White or Reggie Bush could go ahead of the other one in the draft. Fast forward to after the championship game and everyone is talking about whether Leinart, Young or Bush will be the #1 overall. Fast forward to after the combine and suddenly Reggie Bush is Barry Sanders and Gale Sayers in one and the apparently the best prospect in NFL history.

Reggie Bush is very talented, there's no doubt about that. But I'm sick and tired of the hype behind him already. I think that the Texans made a smart decision and absolutely did the right thing for their team. I think that whatever team ends up with Reggie Bush will probably get a guy that puts up some eye popping numbers at times but will never carry that team to the Super Bowl (yup, the next Barry Sanders all right).

 

[Sheriff66]

I think the Texans did the right thing here for many reasons....

#1 - I think Bush is overrated - He is a great player, but he is not the #1 pick in the draft, I don't think he can carry the load, don't believe he can hold up for more than 4-5 seasons before he starts being nicked up all the time(Tomlinson as an example: already starting to show wear & tear)

#2 - The Texans need D, a pass rusher in particular, and this guys is Peppers-like.

#3 - I might have taken DaBrick if I we Casserly, but Davis is a good RB, no need to take a RB at the #1 spot, they have too many other holes to fill.

Good move by the Texans, the right move isn't always the most popular, I think they go OL at 33...

 

[3C's]

In the past twenty years, no RB taken in the top five ever won a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him, with the exception of Tony Dorsett, who went to the Cowboys with a "traded" pick, and they were coming off a Super Bowl loss the year before.

X2000 Draft. #5 Jamal Lewis

Besides that, that stat is misleading. In the last 20 years, how many teams with a top 5 pick have won the Super Bowl?

 

[3C's]

In the past twenty years, no RB taken in the top five ever won a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him, with the exception of Tony Dorsett, who went to the Cowboys with a "traded" pick, and they were coming off a Super Bowl loss the year before.

X2000 Draft. #5 Jamal Lewis

Besides that, that stat is misleading. In the last 20 years, how many teams with a top 5 pick have won the Super Bowl?

Going back through the last 20 years, it looks like only two teams have. Dallas and Baltimore. And they had top 5 picks in multiple years.

 

[ChampBailey24]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

Bush had as many rushing yards as McGahee but McGahee and 80 more carries. Bush's YPC was 8.7. Add 80 carries and you suddenly get a 2453 yards season. Bush also had more receptions. Now, you can't compare the TDs. McGahee didn't have Lendale White in his team.That comparison is dumb and makes no sense. Oh and good job being a ##### in your posts after this one.

 

[drew]

Everybody is quick to point out supposed flaws with Bush to justify not taking him. What about Williams? The guy didn't even have sacks in half of his games in college. But he grades out as a Hall-of-Famer? Reggie White?

 

[ChampBailey24]

Everybody is quick to point out supposed flaws with Bush to justify not taking him. What about Williams? The guy didn't even have sacks in half of his games in college. But he grades out as a Hall-of-Famer? Reggie White?

 

[Sheriff66]

Reggie Bush 2005 = 200 rushes for 1740 yards rushing, 16 TDs. 37 receptions for 478 yards, 2 TDs.

Willis McGahee 2002 = 282 rushes for 1753 yards rush, 28 TDs. 27 receptions for 355 yards, 0 TDs.

How is that working out for Buffalo? Very comparable seasons. Both went 1-1 in Title games. If you try to argue against, you are just telling me you didn't follow the college game 4 years ago. McGahee was every bit the stud his last season in college as Bush was. You can bring up the knee, but the guy has clearly recovered and you know what? Buffalo sucks, partly because of that numbskul pick.

Both teams (Texans and Bills) had good running games already and plenty of other holes.

In my book the Texans made a wise move.

You think Buffalo sucks because of the McGahee pick ?? Ever hear of Mike Williams ???? Their OL blows, can't blame McGahee for that...

 

[Biabreakable]

I do think it is debatable what position is most important in the NFL between QB DE and LT but not Rb.

This is the 2nd time the Texand have had the #1 overall pick. The 1st time they took Qb David Carr who they still have. Taking Mario now makes a lot of sense to me. He is a corner stone they can build thier defense around and looks to be capable of being an elite DE like Reggie White or Bruce Smith were more than any prospect I have seen come into the league since Peppers.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Everybody is quick to point out supposed flaws with Bush to justify not taking him. What about Williams? The guy didn't even have sacks in half of his games in college. But he grades out as a Hall-of-Famer? Reggie White?

Yeah, because I have seen lots of people on this board saying that Williams is a surefire HOFer. Williams has plenty of flaws too. The fact is that there NO such thing as a given in the draft. None. But many teams had Bush and Williams neck and neck. The Texans took the guy that they believed will help their team more now and longterm. To pretend as if they took Ashton Youboghty #1 overall is just stupid. Williams has awesome potential just like Bush, fills a bigger need for the Texans, will play every down on defense versus maybe 1/2 of the offensive plays for Bush, and hasn't had any of the baggage come up that Bush has had come up in the past week.

 

[Sheriff66]

Everybody is quick to point out supposed flaws with Bush to justify not taking him.  What about Williams?  The guy didn't even have sacks in half of his games in college.  But he grades out as a Hall-of-Famer?  Reggie White?

EVERY player has a knock on them, nobody is perfect, but with D. Davis already in the fold, you don't have to burn the #1 pick on Bush. Texans need help everywhere, but IMO they should have went DaBrick, they got Johnson, Moulds, Davis and Carr, but it all starts up front. Carr has a gotten a bad rap, can't play QB from your back...

 

[Assani Fisher]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player. He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college. I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close. And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either. That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

Shaun Alexander was being offered for a 2nd rounder last offseason. So was Edge James. How much better do you think Bush is than them? RBs are overvalued in the draft and come dirt cheap in trades later on. I don't think I'd ever draft one #1 overall.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Drew,

Two questions:

1.) How many NC State games did you watch this year?

2.) How is upgrading your RB1 slot from a definite B to an potential A, instead of upgrading at DE or LT from F to potential B or A not a smart move?

Granted, if Williams turns out to be Courtney Brown instead of Julius Peppers, you may be right. But who is to say rather than Marshall Faulk, Mr. Bush isn't Ki-Jana Carter, Rashann Salaam, or Curtis Enis?

Alright, I guess that was 3 questions.

1. Not a lot--maybe 2. But I have watched tape of him, and I watched a lot of games of Reggie Bush. It is clear to me that Reggie Bush is a great player--he's not going to be a Ki-Jana Carter, Rashaan Salaam or Curtis Enis.

2. I agree that it would make more sense for the Texans to take a de over rb based on their needs assuming the rb and de are fairly equal. But Bush and Williams aren't fairly equal--this is where I depart from all of the "experts." Reggie Bush is about as can't miss as you can get. The only potential problem besides injury or scandal with him is whether he can handle the beating of a 300+ carry season. Even if he carries the ball only 250 times, I think he will be one of the best players around and will make the Texans better than Williams will.

Its clear to you that Bush is not going to be like Carter, Salaam, or Enis? LOL. Dude, do you realize that those players looked amazing in college too?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot.

And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.

So you are telling me that you think Casserly and Carroll aren't idiots. I thought this message board was for people to have opinions. My opinion shouldn't be given any credit because I am not a GM? What about yours? On the merits, you think that Williams is a better pick than Bush?



When your opinion is that 1/2 of NFL GMs are idiots its not a very good one.

 

[Gatorman]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player.  He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college.  I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.  And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either.  That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

Shaun Alexander was being offered for a 2nd rounder last offseason. So was Edge James. How much better do you think Bush is than them? RBs are overvalued in the draft and come dirt cheap in trades later on. I don't think I'd ever draft one #1 overall.

DING...here is your answer. Miami last year took Ronnie brown withthe #2 pick because there was nothing else there from a talent standpoint. If Leinart came out last year, Miami takes him. If D'Brikshaw comes out, Miami takes him. While a great RB is an important cog, most teams need 2 thses days. To lock up the type of money bush wanted with all the needs of that team was silly. It is like buying a bently when you already have a mercedes yet your roof is leaking at home. If a BPA grade is about the same and one satisfies a need while one doesn't then it is a pretty easy choice.That being said, if Hou could have had abraham and the #4 for their #1 then they are stupid for a whole different reason.

 

[drew]

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot.

And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.

So you are telling me that you think Casserly and Carroll aren't idiots. I thought this message board was for people to have opinions. My opinion shouldn't be given any credit because I am not a GM? What about yours? On the merits, you think that Williams is a better pick than Bush?

When your opinion is that 1/2 of NFL GMs are idiots its not a very good one.

Guys, if Reggie Bush turns out not to be that great or at least not as good as Williams, then I will come back here and admit that I am wrong. But don't just say that I have to be wrong because I am not a GM and put up a lol emoticon as a comeback. Try arguing that Williams is better than Bush. Oh wait, you can't because he isn't. A bunch of you are saying that Reggie Bush's stock is way overvalued and shot up precipitously in less than a year. Well, who here actually thought Mario Williams was worthy of the #1 pick last year, at the beginning of the season, one month ago?

 

[joffer]

David Carr + Mario Williams = first organization to draft two busts withing 5 years. Congrats Casserly, your garbage!

Bengals down?

 

[Assani Fisher]

The key that I think a lot of people are not focusing on is that Reggie Bush is not just another player.  He is quite possibly the best rb ever coming out of college.  I realize it is difficult to compare the value of a rb to a de, but I think it is easy to say Reggie Bush is a better football player than Mario Williams; it's not even close.  And while one rb might not win you a championship, one de won't either.  That's why you take the best guy--instead of fill the biggest need--when he is far and away the best guy.

Shaun Alexander was being offered for a 2nd rounder last offseason. So was Edge James. How much better do you think Bush is than them? RBs are overvalued in the draft and come dirt cheap in trades later on. I don't think I'd ever draft one #1 overall.

DING...here is your answer. Miami last year took Ronnie brown withthe #2 pick because there was nothing else there from a talent standpoint. If Leinart came out last year, Miami takes him. If D'Brikshaw comes out, Miami takes him. While a great RB is an important cog, most teams need 2 thses days. To lock up the type of money bush wanted with all the needs of that team was silly. It is like buying a bently when you already have a mercedes yet your roof is leaking at home. If a BPA grade is about the same and one satisfies a need while one doesn't then it is a pretty easy choice.That being said, if Hou could have had abraham and the #4 for their #1 then they are stupid for a whole different reason.

I completely agree with this.And FWIW, I do believe that Bush is the BPA in the draft, but I disagree with the OP that its such a run-away.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Okay so 1/2 the GMs and scouts are idiots. Pete Carroll is an idiot.

And you know who is better. It's SHOCKING you don't work in the NFL.

So you are telling me that you think Casserly and Carroll aren't idiots. I thought this message board was for people to have opinions. My opinion shouldn't be given any credit because I am not a GM? What about yours? On the merits, you think that Williams is a better pick than Bush?

When your opinion is that 1/2 of NFL GMs are idiots its not a very good one.

Guys, if Reggie Bush turns out not to be that great or at least not as good as Williams, then I will come back here and admit that I am wrong. But don't just say that I have to be wrong because I am not a GM and put up a lol emoticon as a comeback. Try arguing that Williams is better than Bush. Oh wait, you can't because he isn't. A bunch of you are saying that Reggie Bush's stock is way overvalued and shot up precipitously in less than a year. Well, who here actually thought Mario Williams was worthy of the #1 pick last year, at the beginning of the season, one month ago?

I would say that the onus is on YOU to argue that Bush is better since the Texans have had tons of scouts looking at these 2 guys for hours and hours the past few months and went with Williams. And if you've only seen Williams play 2 games, then how can you possibly know?

Look, I agree that you have every right to have an opinion. And I agree that NFL GMs make mistakes. But for someone that has only seen a guy play 2 games to critisize an organization that probably had at least 20 scouts watch every single college game the guy has ever played, interview him, and watch him do a ton of workouts is very suspect. But even still, I'll still admit that you're entitled to your opinion. But its just ridiculous for you to call them idiots and to act like you're so confident that you're correct considering the amount of studying they've done compared to the amount you've done regarding Williams.

 

[mgtsr]

Everybody is quick to point out supposed flaws with Bush to justify not taking him.  What about Williams?  The guy didn't even have sacks in half of his games in college.  But he grades out as a Hall-of-Famer?  Reggie White?

EVERY player has a knock on them, nobody is perfect, but with D. Davis already in the fold, you don't have to burn the #1 pick on Bush. Texans need help everywhere, but IMO they should have went DaBrick, they got Johnson, Moulds, Davis and Carr, but it all starts up front. Carr has a gotten a bad rap, can't play QB from your back...

Brick was the way to go

...you don't take a DE that manages only 3/4 of a college season of 'greatness' (is it me, or do all of Mario's highlights come from the Maryland game?)

...you don't take a RB if you don't need one

...and NOBODY with half a brain hasn't said over the last 3 years that the biggest reason the Texans suffer is because of their O-Line - somehow, though, everyone with half a brain 'forgot' that the Texans are setting records for Sacks allowed

Brick was the way to go

 

[simey]

David Carr + Mario Williams = first organization to draft two busts withing 5 years. Congrats Casserly, your garbage!

Aren't you full of gloom and doom. Defenses win games, and Houston's D has been terrible, as well as their OL. Mario is a freak. His speed, athleticism, and size is simply amazing. Mario didn't start last season as dominate as usual, but people tend to forget Manny Lawson (who is very good) was dominate too, and when teams focused on Mario, Manny ran them over like a speed demon. John McCargo and Marcus Hudson did their share of pounding offenses too. From mid season on, the beast in Mario awoke, and he could not be stopped. His best game of the season was when he had the flu, and he played like a bat out of hell. Mario is young too. He graduated from high school a year early, and from NCSU a year early. He is one of those players that has a special gift that comes natural to him. It isn't coached, he just has it. He is well spoken, and a nice kid. A great athlete and person to make the centerpiece of your defense.