How Good was Bruce Lee? (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

* 19) Drunken style

This is the fighting discipline I utilize the most.

 

[DCThunder]

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later. I'm not a MMA guy, so I really don't know much about it.

Ali did fight (and beat IIRC) a Japanese wrestler, but that was in the mid-late 70s when his skills were rapidly declining. It was a big closed-circuit event that made Ali a lot of money.

 

[Natty Dreadlock]

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later. I'm not a MMA guy, so I really don't know much about it.

Ali did fight (and beat IIRC) a Japanese wrestler, but that was in the mid-late 70s when his skills were rapidly declining. It was a big closed-circuit event that made Ali a lot of money.

The problem with Boxing in MMA sport fighting is that your average boxer pays zero attention to any defense below the waist. This would leave them open to low kicks, knees and any grappler looking to shoot his legs.

 

[#@%&$!?]

WOOOOoooo WAAAAJAAA! OOOOOOooooooooooo

*flicksnosewiththumb*

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Bruce Lee wouldn't just have to learn ground fighting. He'd have to learn boxing, kick-boxing (granted they would be easy to pick up, but whatever), wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and judo skills...

Boxing and Kick-boxing are "easy to pick up"? Larry you sound like a guy who hasn't done any of these things. Mastering Boxing is as difficult as mastering any martial art. Sure, learning the 5 basic punches might be easy, but so is learning a basic top or side mount or an arm bar - mastering is something else entirely and boxing is no"easier" than anything else in this regard.

True, however, in a sense learning a fighting style is similar to learning a foreign language; the first one is the hardest. Having mastered one upright style might not help much in mastering a ground style (I think there is room for discussion there), but you will be able to recognize basic principles and pick up another upright style much faster than someone starting from scratch. As for the main topic, someone before said it very well; the Myth of Bruce Lee clearly would destroy everyone. I fall on the side that the Man would have to apply modern training techniques and principles, and if he did could be very competitive.

 

[oddball]

Here is a list of what Jeet Kune Do "contains".I think too many people are writing it off as just a "martial art"un Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do, From Bruce Lee's Research Includes:* 1) Wing Chun* 2) Northern Praying Mantis* 3) Southern Praying Mantis* 4) Choy Li Fut* 5) Tai-Chi Chuan (Wu family style )* 6) Paqua* 7) Hsing-l* 8) Bak Hoo Pai (white crane ) Bak -Fu Pai (white tiger )* 9) eagle claw* 10) Ng Ga Kuen ( five family system )* 11) Ny Ying Ga (five animal system )* 12) Bak mei pai (white eyebrow )* 13) Northern Shaolin* 14) Southern Shaolin* 15) Bok Pai* 16) Law Horn Kuen* 17) Chin Na* 18) Monkey style* 19) Drunken style* 20) western fencing (foil )* 21) western boxing* 22) western wrestling* 23) Ju Jitsu* 24) Escrima* 25) Sikaran* 26) Muay Thai ( Thai boxing )Not saying Bruce Lee would just rule UFC or anything but I wouldn't write him off either

Given the moves he has displayed and his books on his theory of combat, a good 70-80% of his knowledge pool is derived from wing chun.

 

[Natty Dreadlock]

Bruce Lee wouldn't just have to learn ground fighting. He'd have to learn boxing, kick-boxing (granted they would be easy to pick up, but whatever), wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and judo skills...

Boxing and Kick-boxing are "easy to pick up"? Larry you sound like a guy who hasn't done any of these things. Mastering Boxing is as difficult as mastering any martial art. Sure, learning the 5 basic punches might be easy, but so is learning a basic top or side mount or an arm bar - mastering is something else entirely and boxing is no"easier" than anything else in this regard.

True, however, in a sense learning a fighting style is similar to learning a foreign language; the first one is the hardest. Having mastered one upright style might not help much in mastering a ground style (I think there is room for discussion there), but you will be able to recognize basic principles and pick up another upright style much faster than someone starting from scratch. As for the main topic, someone before said it very well; the Myth of Bruce Lee clearly would destroy everyone. I fall on the side that the Man would have to apply modern training techniques and principles, and if he did could be very competitive.

Look up info on Dan Inosanto. Inosanto started off in judo and karate and was part of Ed Parker's travelling exhibits in the 60s until he met Bruce Lee. He studied with him until his death and he became the "heir" to Jeet Kune Do. Since that time, he's branched way out, studying Muah Thai more heavily as well as Silat and Kali. Different people of course, but one can look at the path Inosanto has followed and probalby wouldn't be far off in assuming Lee's would have had a similar evolution.

 

[belljr]

Bruce Lee wouldn't just have to learn ground fighting. He'd have to learn boxing, kick-boxing (granted they would be easy to pick up, but whatever), wrestling, jiu-jitsu, and judo skills...

Boxing and Kick-boxing are "easy to pick up"? Larry you sound like a guy who hasn't done any of these things. Mastering Boxing is as difficult as mastering any martial art. Sure, learning the 5 basic punches might be easy, but so is learning a basic top or side mount or an arm bar - mastering is something else entirely and boxing is no"easier" than anything else in this regard.

True, however, in a sense learning a fighting style is similar to learning a foreign language; the first one is the hardest. Having mastered one upright style might not help much in mastering a ground style (I think there is room for discussion there), but you will be able to recognize basic principles and pick up another upright style much faster than someone starting from scratch. As for the main topic, someone before said it very well; the Myth of Bruce Lee clearly would destroy everyone. I fall on the side that the Man would have to apply modern training techniques and principles, and if he did could be very competitive.

Look up info on Dan Inosanto. Inosanto started off in judo and karate and was part of Ed Parker's travelling exhibits in the 60s until he met Bruce Lee. He studied with him until his death and he became the "heir" to Jeet Kune Do. Since that time, he's branched way out, studying Muah Thai more heavily as well as Silat and Kali. Different people of course, but one can look at the path Inosanto has followed and probalby wouldn't be far off in assuming Lee's would have had a similar evolution.

Was just going to mention Inosanto. I know he is pretty big in the martial arts community but didn't know how well known he is in general.

 

[Natty Dreadlock]

Here is a list of what Jeet Kune Do "contains".I think too many people are writing it off as just a "martial art"un Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do, From Bruce Lee's Research Includes:* 1) Wing Chun* 2) Northern Praying Mantis* 3) Southern Praying Mantis* 4) Choy Li Fut* 5) Tai-Chi Chuan (Wu family style )* 6) Paqua* 7) Hsing-l* 8) Bak Hoo Pai (white crane ) Bak -Fu Pai (white tiger )* 9) eagle claw* 10) Ng Ga Kuen ( five family system )* 11) Ny Ying Ga (five animal system )* 12) Bak mei pai (white eyebrow )* 13) Northern Shaolin* 14) Southern Shaolin* 15) Bok Pai* 16) Law Horn Kuen* 17) Chin Na* 18) Monkey style* 19) Drunken style* 20) western fencing (foil )* 21) western boxing* 22) western wrestling* 23) Ju Jitsu* 24) Escrima* 25) Sikaran* 26) Muay Thai ( Thai boxing )Not saying Bruce Lee would just rule UFC or anything but I wouldn't write him off either

Given the moves he has displayed and his books on his theory of combat, a good 70-80% of his knowledge pool is derived from wing chun.

That was what his initial training was in so that makes sense. Even after he went against the rigidity of traditional Wing Chun teachings that was a big part of who he was as a fighter. Also, at the time, it wasn't quite as easy to go to a mater of another of these arts and simply ask the train in them. He studied what he could from them and tried to adapt some of their techniques to his own. Muay Thai is a good example. From an interview with Dan Inosanto:

.: To say that Muay Thai is part of Jeet Kune Do is incorrect. People do not take entire systems and put it into Jeet Kune Do. JKD is supposed to be a person's own personal expression. It's just like if you were writing a term paper. You would extract from and refer to different books, but you cannot copy a whole book into your term paper. You can only put it in your bibliography.But Sifu Bruce was highly influenced by Muay Thai. Whether he was doing it correct by the standards of the Thais would be another thing, but he tried to put the essence of Muay Thai into his training....Sifu Bruce was trying to do what he called his personal expression of combat. And if you look at his notes you will notice that he investigated different arts. He listed the strengths and weaknesses of arts such as Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan, Boxing, Savate and Thai Boxing. Thai Boxing was one of the systems he really liked. He extracted the front round kick from Savate, and he liked the headbutt from Burmese boxing. But the powerful rear leg and the use of elbow and knee is copied and highly influenced by Muay Thai. But he didn't have that much time in Muay Thai, so he didn't have the chance to go in deeply. So whether it was bad or good Muay Thai is debatable. But he did incorporate Muay Thai techniques into his personal expression, Jeet Kune Do. It is true that he did copy it....In my opinion as I look at it here in 1995, Lee delved into Muay Thai but maybe not as deep as he thought he knew it. When we trained, he didn't know exactly how the Thais did it. But we improvised a foam forearm pad from football, which is sort of copying what we observed from the Thai pad. But we held it incorrectly, with the palm facing inward instead of outward like the Thais.

Also note how he talks about JKD has being someone's personal expression of combat. Someone trained in Wing Chun would naturally tend to have a style dominated by Wing Chun, even after switching to JKD.

 

[Minotauro]

I just came across an article about this exact topic It simplifies things, but mirrors a lot of the discussion on this thread.

 

[oddball]

Here is a list of what Jeet Kune Do "contains".I think too many people are writing it off as just a "martial art"un Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do, From Bruce Lee's Research Includes:* 1) Wing Chun* 2) Northern Praying Mantis* 3) Southern Praying Mantis* 4) Choy Li Fut* 5) Tai-Chi Chuan (Wu family style )* 6) Paqua* 7) Hsing-l* 8) Bak Hoo Pai (white crane ) Bak -Fu Pai (white tiger )* 9) eagle claw* 10) Ng Ga Kuen ( five family system )* 11) Ny Ying Ga (five animal system )* 12) Bak mei pai (white eyebrow )* 13) Northern Shaolin* 14) Southern Shaolin* 15) Bok Pai* 16) Law Horn Kuen* 17) Chin Na* 18) Monkey style* 19) Drunken style* 20) western fencing (foil )* 21) western boxing* 22) western wrestling* 23) Ju Jitsu* 24) Escrima* 25) Sikaran* 26) Muay Thai ( Thai boxing )Not saying Bruce Lee would just rule UFC or anything but I wouldn't write him off either

Given the moves he has displayed and his books on his theory of combat, a good 70-80% of his knowledge pool is derived from wing chun.

That was what his initial training was in so that makes sense. Even after he went against the rigidity of traditional Wing Chun teachings that was a big part of who he was as a fighter. Also, at the time, it wasn't quite as easy to go to a mater of another of these arts and simply ask the train in them. He studied what he could from them and tried to adapt some of their techniques to his own. Muay Thai is a good example. From an interview with Dan Inosanto:

.: To say that Muay Thai is part of Jeet Kune Do is incorrect. People do not take entire systems and put it into Jeet Kune Do. JKD is supposed to be a person's own personal expression. It's just like if you were writing a term paper. You would extract from and refer to different books, but you cannot copy a whole book into your term paper. You can only put it in your bibliography.But Sifu Bruce was highly influenced by Muay Thai. Whether he was doing it correct by the standards of the Thais would be another thing, but he tried to put the essence of Muay Thai into his training....Sifu Bruce was trying to do what he called his personal expression of combat. And if you look at his notes you will notice that he investigated different arts. He listed the strengths and weaknesses of arts such as Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan, Boxing, Savate and Thai Boxing. Thai Boxing was one of the systems he really liked. He extracted the front round kick from Savate, and he liked the headbutt from Burmese boxing. But the powerful rear leg and the use of elbow and knee is copied and highly influenced by Muay Thai. But he didn't have that much time in Muay Thai, so he didn't have the chance to go in deeply. So whether it was bad or good Muay Thai is debatable. But he did incorporate Muay Thai techniques into his personal expression, Jeet Kune Do. It is true that he did copy it....In my opinion as I look at it here in 1995, Lee delved into Muay Thai but maybe not as deep as he thought he knew it. When we trained, he didn't know exactly how the Thais did it. But we improvised a foam forearm pad from football, which is sort of copying what we observed from the Thai pad. But we held it incorrectly, with the palm facing inward instead of outward like the Thais.

Also note how he talks about JKD has being someone's personal expression of combat. Someone trained in Wing Chun would naturally tend to have a style dominated by Wing Chun, even after switching to JKD.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

 

[[icon]]

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

 

[[icon]]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 09:56 AM' post='6406015']Interesting facts from the wikipedia article:# Bruce Lee's striking speed from 3 feet away was five hundredths of a second. # Bruce was able to break a 150lb bag with a sidekick. (Coburn[16])# Bruce was able to hold a 125-pound barbell at arms length in front of him (with elbows locked) for 20 seconds. .05 sec from 3ft? That's pretty much impossible to defend. Combine that with enough force to destroy a 150lb bag, or to swing a 300lb bag to the ceiling? Not saying he'd win vs anyone, but with that speed and power you're looking at some serious damage if he sees an opening to your chest or face.

What the hell do any of these mean? 1. "Striking speed"? Is that a punch? A kick? 2. I once broke my 100lb heavy bag...It was make of cheap imitation leather, about 6 years old and was weather damaged.3. That should be good enough to earn him a Gold Medal in the Men's 125lb Barbell Hold.

For a jeopardy contestant you're not too bright... at least not when you're trying to play hipster contrarian. 1) Common sense would indicate it's talking about a punch. Kicks aren't efficient enough to be considered in strike times.2) I'm sure that's exactly what they were talking about... a worn out old bag held together by duct tape. 3) You're seriously struggling with the implications of a level of conditioning required to hold a 125lb dumbell at arms length for that length of time? Nevermind... I'm pretty sure you've never even seen a 125lb dumbell so this makes sense.

 

[GStrot]

Here is a list of what Jeet Kune Do "contains".I think too many people are writing it off as just a "martial art"un Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do, From Bruce Lee's Research Includes:* 1) Wing Chun* 2) Northern Praying Mantis* 3) Southern Praying Mantis* 4) Choy Li Fut* 5) Tai-Chi Chuan (Wu family style )* 6) Paqua* 7) Hsing-l* 8) Bak Hoo Pai (white crane ) Bak -Fu Pai (white tiger )* 9) eagle claw* 10) Ng Ga Kuen ( five family system )* 11) Ny Ying Ga (five animal system )* 12) Bak mei pai (white eyebrow )* 13) Northern Shaolin* 14) Southern Shaolin* 15) Bok Pai* 16) Law Horn Kuen* 17) Chin Na* 18) Monkey style* 19) Drunken style* 20) western fencing (foil )* 21) western boxing* 22) western wrestling* 23) Ju Jitsu* 24) Escrima* 25) Sikaran* 26) Muay Thai ( Thai boxing )Not saying Bruce Lee would just rule UFC or anything but I wouldn't write him off either

This list is making me hungry.

 

[GStrot]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 02:51 PM' post='6407113']

' date='Feb 28 2007, 09:56 AM' post='6406015']Interesting facts from the wikipedia article:# Bruce Lee's striking speed from 3 feet away was five hundredths of a second. # Bruce was able to break a 150lb bag with a sidekick. (Coburn[16])# Bruce was able to hold a 125-pound barbell at arms length in front of him (with elbows locked) for 20 seconds. .05 sec from 3ft? That's pretty much impossible to defend. Combine that with enough force to destroy a 150lb bag, or to swing a 300lb bag to the ceiling? Not saying he'd win vs anyone, but with that speed and power you're looking at some serious damage if he sees an opening to your chest or face.

What the hell do any of these mean? 1. "Striking speed"? Is that a punch? A kick? 2. I once broke my 100lb heavy bag...It was make of cheap imitation leather, about 6 years old and was weather damaged.3. That should be good enough to earn him a Gold Medal in the Men's 125lb Barbell Hold.

For a jeopardy contestant you're not too bright... at least not when you're trying to play hipster contrarian. 1) Common sense would indicate it's talking about a punch. Kicks aren't efficient enough to be considered in strike times.2) I'm sure that's exactly what they were talking about... a worn out old bag held together by duct tape. 3) You're seriously struggling with the implications of a level of conditioning required to hold a 125lb dumbell at arms length for that length of time? Nevermind... I'm pretty sure you've never even seen a 125lb dumbell so this makes sense.

125 pound barbell. A dumbell would be impressive. Barbell, meh.

 

[Flying V]

If I recall correctly someone saw him fighting and thought he would make a great movie character and that's how he started doing films.

Actually, he had been in a lot of films with his dad ever since he was a kid. I've seen clips on the KungFu channel.He was an outstanding martial artist, but for those who consider him a great actor, I just don't see it. They are very entertaining, but definitely B-movies all the way.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

Bruce Lee could make your heart explode out of your chest just by furrowing his brow at you. What's the issue here?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

If I recall correctly someone saw him fighting and thought he would make a great movie character and that's how he started doing films.

Actually, he had been in a lot of films with his dad ever since he was a kid. I've seen clips on the KungFu channel.He was an outstanding martial artist, but for those who consider him a great actor, I just don't see it. They are very entertaining, but definitely B-movies all the way.

Exactly. The people here who say he was an actor who knew martial arts are crazy. He was a fantastic martial artist who got into movies that sold because the action was so cool, not because he could act worth a lick.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Bruce Lee could make your heart explode out of your chest just by furrowing his brow at you. What's the issue here?

He taught Chuck Norris everything he knows.

 

[Irish]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 03:46 PM' post='6407089']

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

 

[DCThunder]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 03:46 PM' post='6407089']

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

As I recall, the Japanese wrestler who fought Ali tried to do just what AhrnCity proposed, and Ali was quick enough to stay away from him. It was a very boring "fight" and was the beginning of the end of Ali's career. Stick and move, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

 

[Minotauro]

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

Everything you said about good boxers and their skills applies to good wrestlers. Good wrestlers know how to work angles, good wrestlers have very quick takedowns, etc.Boxers do not train to defend takedowns, wrestlers train to do them their whole lives. Do you have any idea what great takedowns look like? Do you know what a low single is?

You can't box from your back.

Mark Kerr Highlight

 

[moleculo]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 03:46 PM' post='6407089']

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

I hope this is a joke. I'll put up any NCAA wrestler above 170lbs against any heavyweight boxer...any day.

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

 

[Minotauro]

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

Hey moleculo, did you hear about his next opponent? The guy's name is Rex Holman and he was an NCAA Champ from Ohio State. Both those guys have serious credentials, should be a good one.

 

[moleculo]

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

Hey moleculo, did you hear about his next opponent? The guy's name is Rex Holman and he was an NCAA Champ from Ohio State. Both those guys have serious credentials, should be a good one.

seriously? When will this be on?Holman's wrestling stats are more impressive than Hamills, btw, in that he was a D1 champ - hamill was 3x D3 champ - big difference between D1 and D3. Hamill did start out at Purdue though and did quite well as a freshman before transferring to a D3 school, so there is no telling how good Hamill could have been @ D1.

 

[Minotauro]

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

Hey moleculo, did you hear about his next opponent? The guy's name is Rex Holman and he was an NCAA Champ from Ohio State. Both those guys have serious credentials, should be a good one.

seriously? When will this be on?Holman's wrestling stats are more impressive than Hamills, btw, in that he was a D1 champ - hamill was 3x D3 champ - big difference between D1 and D3. Hamill did start out at Purdue though and did quite well as a freshman before transferring to a D3 school, so there is no telling how good Hamill could have been @ D1.

It's this Saturday at UFC 68 in Columbus, Ohio. I don't like the card too much except to root for Randy to beat Tim Sylvia. They've got a Midwest-heavy card with Hughes and Franklin's return.As far as Hamill and D3, wasn't his reason for transferring because of better facilities for the deaf? That makes sense and is no slight against his skills. Hope he's been working on his standup.Another good wrestler on the card is Jon Fitch who was a 4 year starter at Purdue.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 03:46 PM' post='6407089']

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

As I recall, the Japanese wrestler who fought Ali tried to do just what AhrnCity proposed, and Ali was quick enough to stay away from him. It was a very boring "fight" and was the beginning of the end of Ali's career. Stick and move, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

That was Antonio Inoki. The whole fight was staged, ala pro wrestling. A good wrestler (not a "professional rassler") will demolish a good boxer 98 times out of 100.

 

[moleculo]

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

Hey moleculo, did you hear about his next opponent? The guy's name is Rex Holman and he was an NCAA Champ from Ohio State. Both those guys have serious credentials, should be a good one.

seriously? When will this be on?Holman's wrestling stats are more impressive than Hamills, btw, in that he was a D1 champ - hamill was 3x D3 champ - big difference between D1 and D3. Hamill did start out at Purdue though and did quite well as a freshman before transferring to a D3 school, so there is no telling how good Hamill could have been @ D1.

As far as Hamill and D3, wasn't his reason for transferring because of better facilities for the deaf? That makes sense and is no slight against his skills. Hope he's been working on his standup.

Yeah, that's true, but I always suspected that there was something else going on - I was never told anything else, and I never asked - we were just happy to have someone of his talent on our team. After all, Matt can read lips fairly well and with his hearing aid, he can understand pretty good. He's not completely deaf - he has some hearing - certainly enough such that he can function perfectly well in a hearing environment. IIRC, he was about a .500 wrestler or better @ Purdue as a freshman, so he had potiental.He did loose to D1 opponents as a D3 wrestler on mor ethan one occasion - one was at a tournament in NJ - he claimed that he thought he was out of bounds and didn't hear the ref not blow the whistle, I personally think it was because he was slacking off the week leading up to the tourney- my opinion only.The bit that impresses me about Holman's resume is a junior freestyle and greco title in '87, btw - that's a damn tough tournament.

 

[LHUCKS]

I don't know much about fighting, Bruce Lee etc....I do know that I'd give my left nut to watch Bruce Lee fight someone in his weight class in the UFC.

 

[Minotauro]

I don't know much about fighting, Bruce Lee etc....I do know that I'd give my left nut to watch Bruce Lee fight someone in his weight class in the UFC.

What event did you give your right one away for? USC winning the Nat'l Championship?

 

[Bob Wiley]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 03:46 PM' post='6407089']

Well, how would someone like Muhummed Ali IN HIS PRIME do in MMA? I mean the Ali who fought Smokin' Joe in '71 or the Thrilla in Manila a couple of years later.

Any guy with even a little bit of wreslting, submission or BJJ would not be stupid enough to stand and trade punches with him. They'd take him down and submit him in a heartbeat. I doubt Ali studied much in the way of takedown defense. There really is no way that any one-demensional striker would last more than a minute or two in the UFC today.

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

I hope this is a joke. I'll put up any NCAA wrestler above 170lbs against any heavyweight boxer...any day.

Now, this is something that we can find out about - watch Matt Hamill in UFC.

I would take Mark Hamill over Matt Hamill any day. Jedis are no joke.

 

[Bob Wiley]

he'd probably lose most of the time... only the guys who stand up at all times (when they have control) would lost to him...

there is a reason that NO ONE in the UFC even studies karate or kung fu for the UFC, because they are useless disciplines in the UFC...

But Bruce was possibly the pioneer in studying mixed-martial arts. I'm pretty sure if he lived long enough he would have learned all forms of fighting and possibely held his own in the modern UFC (w/ weight classes) due to his power and speed.He did bicep curls with 80 pound dumbbells for 80 reps straight to build endurance and power.

That's no . My grandfather's best friend's wife's sister relayed this same story through a homeless guy that crashed one of my family reunions a couple years ago. Also, Bruce Lee regularly ate glass as a snack if he had a heavy lunch and didn't want to eat dinner. Plus he could fart fireballs that would singe your eyebrows from 30 feet away. Man, that guy was a bad mothereffer. Also, back in the day I would have Tekken tournaments in between classes in college and I never lost using the character that was based on him. Yup, true story.

 

[Bob Wiley]

he'd probably lose most of the time... only the guys who stand up at all times (when they have control) would lost to him...

there is a reason that NO ONE in the UFC even studies karate or kung fu for the UFC, because they are useless disciplines in the UFC...

But Bruce was possibly the pioneer in studying mixed-martial arts. I'm pretty sure if he lived long enough he would have learned all forms of fighting and possibely held his own in the modern UFC (w/ weight classes) due to his power and speed.He did bicep curls with 80 pound dumbbells for 80 reps straight to build endurance and power.

That's no . My grandfather's best friend's wife's sister relayed this same story through a homeless guy that crashed one of my family reunions a couple years ago. Also, Bruce Lee regularly ate glass as a snack if he had a heavy lunch and didn't want to eat dinner. Plus he could fart fireballs that would singe your eyebrows from 30 feet away. Man, that guy was a bad mothereffer. Also, back in the day I would have Tekken tournaments in between classes in college and I never lost using the character that was based on him. Yup, true story.

Thank you.

 

[Challenge Everything]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee#Phy...s_and_nutrition

Bruce Lee felt that many martial artists of his day did not spend enough time on physical conditioning. Bruce Lee did not resort to traditional bodybuilding techniques to build mass; he was more interested in speed and power. In his book the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, he wrote "Training is one of the most neglected phases of athletics. Too much time is given to the development of skill and too little to the development of the individual for participation." "JKD, ultimately is not a matter of petty techniques but of highly developed spirituality and physique". [12]

The weight training program that Lee used during a stay in Hong Kong in 1965 indicated biceps curls of eighty pounds (36 kgs) and eight repetitions[13] for endurance. This translates to an estimated one repetition maximum of 110 pounds, [14] placing Lee in approximately the 100th percentile for the 121 to 140 pound weight class.[15]

Lee believed that the abdominal muscles were one of the most important muscle groups for a martial artist, since virtually every movement requires some degree of abdominal work. Perhaps more importantly, the "abs" are like a shell, protecting the ribs and vital organs. Bruce Lee's washboard abs did not come from mere abdominal training; he was also a proponent of cardiovascular conditioning and would regularly run, jump rope, and ride a stationary bicycle. A typical exercise for Lee would be to run a distance of two to six miles in fifteen to forty-five minutes.

 

[Gr00vus]

guys like Seagal and Van Damme, who were really more of actors

I think this is the real gem of the whole thread.

 

[Marc Levin]

he'd probably lose most of the time... only the guys who stand up at all times (when they have control) would lost to him...

there is a reason that NO ONE in the UFC even studies karate or kung fu for the UFC, because they are useless disciplines in the UFC...

But Bruce was possibly the pioneer in studying mixed-martial arts. I'm pretty sure if he lived long enough he would have learned all forms of fighting and possibely held his own in the modern UFC (w/ weight classes) due to his power and speed.He did bicep curls with 80 pound dumbbells for 80 reps straight to build endurance and power.

That's no . My grandfather's best friend's wife's sister relayed this same story through a homeless guy that crashed one of my family reunions a couple years ago. Also, Bruce Lee regularly ate glass as a snack if he had a heavy lunch and didn't want to eat dinner. Plus he could fart fireballs that would singe your eyebrows from 30 feet away. Man, that guy was a bad mothereffer. Also, back in the day I would have Tekken tournaments in between classes in college and I never lost using the character that was based on him. Yup, true story.

Thank you.

Stop.Now.

Thanks.

(and that story about eating glass and pooping fireballs was about CHUCK, not Bruce - The Young Chuck Norris used his hands and his feet and his feet and his hands!)

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

' date='Feb 28 2007, 09:56 AM' post='6406015']Interesting facts from the wikipedia article:# Bruce Lee's striking speed from 3 feet away was five hundredths of a second. # Bruce was able to break a 150lb bag with a sidekick. (Coburn[16])# Bruce was able to hold a 125-pound barbell at arms length in front of him (with elbows locked) for 20 seconds. .05 sec from 3ft? That's pretty much impossible to defend. Combine that with enough force to destroy a 150lb bag, or to swing a 300lb bag to the ceiling? Not saying he'd win vs anyone, but with that speed and power you're looking at some serious damage if he sees an opening to your chest or face.

What the hell do any of these mean? 1. "Striking speed"? Is that a punch? A kick?

Eyeball pluck

 

[LogDawg]

I'm glad we'll never see him climb in the octogon, because the can of whoop ### that he would endure would be embarrassing for him and everyone idiotic enough to believe half the hype.

It's unfortunate because he was a great talent. But anyone who knows/has studied different disciplines knows what the little fella would be in for.

 

[bentley]

Maybe this has been covered before, but I understand that a boxer would likely get his ### kicked in MMA. Wouldn't the same be true for an MMA guy that entered a boxing ring? I haven't watched much UFC since Shamrock and Gracie were the big names and it was a beautiful, undisciplined mess, but it seems like they're completely different arts.

 

[Drifter]

Maybe this has been covered before, but I understand that a boxer would likely get his ### kicked in MMA. Wouldn't the same be true for an MMA guy that entered a boxing ring? I haven't watched much UFC since Shamrock and Gracie were the big names and it was a beautiful, undisciplined mess, but it seems like they're completely different arts.

Of course. That's why the wise Natty Dreadlock's first question in this thread was if we were talking street fight or sport fighting. While UFC is much closer to street fighting than a boxing match, skills in one or the other and one's accomplisments in one or the other don't necessary translate perfectly to the street.

 

[bentley]

Maybe this has been covered before, but I understand that a boxer would likely get his ### kicked in MMA. Wouldn't the same be true for an MMA guy that entered a boxing ring? I haven't watched much UFC since Shamrock and Gracie were the big names and it was a beautiful, undisciplined mess, but it seems like they're completely different arts.

Of course. That's why the wise Natty Dreadlock's first question in this thread was if we were talking street fight or sport fighting. While UFC is much closer to street fighting than a boxing match, skills in one or the other and one's accomplisments in one or the other don't necessary translate perfectly to the street.

Well, how could we doubt the great Natty Dreadlock? I'd just read the last page or so and everyone was hammering boxers. Just wanted to make sure I understood.

 

[Drifter]

Maybe this has been covered before, but I understand that a boxer would likely get his ### kicked in MMA. Wouldn't the same be true for an MMA guy that entered a boxing ring? I haven't watched much UFC since Shamrock and Gracie were the big names and it was a beautiful, undisciplined mess, but it seems like they're completely different arts.

Of course. That's why the wise Natty Dreadlock's first question in this thread was if we were talking street fight or sport fighting. While UFC is much closer to street fighting than a boxing match, skills in one or the other and one's accomplisments in one or the other don't necessary translate perfectly to the street.

Well, how could we doubt the great Natty Dreadlock? I'd just read the last page or so and everyone was hammering boxers. Just wanted to make sure I understood.

I think boxers were a bit unfairly hammered. As the original question was phrased, professional (accomplished) boxer vs professional UFC fighter, I think the UFC fighter is going to take down the boxer pretty easily.However, if you say "average" boxer vs "average" mixed martial artist, I'll probably go with the boxer. It seems that more people dabble in eastern martial arts than dabble in boxing. Also, those who box at the recreational level tend to train harder and work on things like timing and footwork more than the average recreational martial artist. (Someone will probably now puff up their chest and come in here talking about how their martial art works tons on timing, footwork (or positioning). That's great but for every school like that, there's 10 that don't.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I agree with drifter, for the reasons metioned, and for one other reason he didn't mention....boxers have a chin. Boxers are used to getting punched, which a lot of karate people can't claim. Not a lot of kung fu and karate practices with full contact sparring.

You can have all the technique in the world, but if you're a glassjaw cupcake it really won't help you much.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Maybe this has been covered before, but I understand that a boxer would likely get his ### kicked in MMA. Wouldn't the same be true for an MMA guy that entered a boxing ring? I haven't watched much UFC since Shamrock and Gracie were the big names and it was a beautiful, undisciplined mess, but it seems like they're completely different arts.

it depends on the fighter... some MMA guys are more experienced/better boxers than others...some have little-to-no boxing, some have tons....

 

[bentley]

How does the average purse for an MMA event compare to a boxing purse?

 

[matuski]

how many flies could bruce lee catch with a pair of chopsticks is what i wanna know.

 

[Irish]

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

Everything you said about good boxers and their skills applies to good wrestlers. Good wrestlers know how to work angles, good wrestlers have very quick takedowns, etc.Boxers do not train to defend takedowns, wrestlers train to do them their whole lives. Do you have any idea what great takedowns look like? Do you know what a low single is?

You can't box from your back.

Mark Kerr Highlight

You can't wrestle when you can't get close enough to attempt a takedown either. Wrestlers don't train for defense to avoid getting peppered with punches. Boxers love it when wrestlers shoot in and come right into the boxer's wheelhouse and it's lights out in Georgia. I've seen it happen way too many times for anyone to convince me that a wrestler would win out in a fight against a good boxer on a high percentage.

 

[moleculo]

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

Everything you said about good boxers and their skills applies to good wrestlers. Good wrestlers know how to work angles, good wrestlers have very quick takedowns, etc.Boxers do not train to defend takedowns, wrestlers train to do them their whole lives. Do you have any idea what great takedowns look like? Do you know what a low single is?

You can't box from your back.

Mark Kerr Highlight

You can't wrestle when you can't get close enough to attempt a takedown either. Wrestlers don't train for defense to avoid getting peppered with punches. Boxers love it when wrestlers shoot in and come right into the boxer's wheelhouse and it's lights out in Georgia. I've seen it happen way too many times for anyone to convince me that a wrestler would win out in a fight against a good boxer on a high percentage.

All a wrestler needs is to be able to take one punch, and he'll be in too close for boxing to be effective.

 

[Sabertooth]

They couldn't get close enough to a great boxer to even attempt a submission. I've seen many street fights between wrestlers and boxers and the boxers routinely destroyed the wrestlers. Most of the time the wrestlers couldn't get close enough to put their hands on the boxers. Good boxers are trained in knowing what angles to throw their punches and get the most leverage on their punches. Good boxers also have very quick hands.

Everything you said about good boxers and their skills applies to good wrestlers. Good wrestlers know how to work angles, good wrestlers have very quick takedowns, etc.Boxers do not train to defend takedowns, wrestlers train to do them their whole lives. Do you have any idea what great takedowns look like? Do you know what a low single is?

You can't box from your back.

Mark Kerr Highlight

You can't wrestle when you can't get close enough to attempt a takedown either. Wrestlers don't train for defense to avoid getting peppered with punches. Boxers love it when wrestlers shoot in and come right into the boxer's wheelhouse and it's lights out in Georgia. I've seen it happen way too many times for anyone to convince me that a wrestler would win out in a fight against a good boxer on a high percentage.

All a wrestler needs is to be able to take one punch, and he'll be in too close for boxing to be effective.

These threads crack me up.